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Elon Musk Shares a Video: Making Ventilators From Tesla Parts (youtu.be) 91

Posted by EditorDavid from the auto-salvage dept.
Elon Musk shared a new video today from Tesla Engineering. "We're trying to make some ventilators from some car parts, so we can help the medical industry without taking away from their supply," it begins. (All three people who appear in the video are wearing a face mask.)

It ends with a demonstration of a prototype using a touchscreen display from the Model 3 infotainment system. "There's still a lot of work to do," the video concludes, "but we're giving it our best effort to make sure we can help some people out there."

Yesterday ventilator manufacturer Medtronic also tweeted that Musk's other company SpaceX "is now making a vital component for critical care ventilators," meaning more of the devices would arrive sooner for Covid-19 patients.

Meanwhile, the New York Post writes: Musk promised last month to shift production to the sorely-needed medical devices, but evidently found that buying existing ventilators with his own largesse was more practical. He shelled out to send 1,000 of the life-saving machines to California, and also vowed to buy some for New York, earning the gratitude of Mayor Bill de Blasio. Musk made good, with the city's public hospital system on Saturday tweeting their gratitude for ventilators Tesla donated, now in use at Lincoln Hospital in The Bronx.

But, with the apex of the contagion possibly upon New York, Cuomo said Sunday that time had run out for Tesla to make new ventilators. "Their time-frame, frankly, doesn't work for our immediate apex, because whether we're talking two days or 10 days, you're not going to make ventilators at that time," said Cuomo, noting that the hang-up is that some parts have to come from overseas.
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Elon Musk Shares a Video: Making Ventilators From Tesla Parts More

Elon Musk Shares a Video: Making Ventilators From Tesla Parts

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  • Remotely Disable Feature (Score:3, Insightful)

    by phalse phace ( 454635 ) on Monday April 06, 2020 @03:52AM (#59912418)

    Will Tesla remotely disable any feature [slashdot.org] of the ventilator if one gets sold or is transferred / donated to another hospital?

    *ducks*

    • if it runs on apple OS .. yes

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by mce ( 509 )
      Well in theory it sure could, because their modem module is on one of the reused Model 3 boards and hence so is the SIM chip. Probably all it lacks is an antenna. I know, because we designed, manufacture, and supply the module and it is very easily seen in the video. :-) We also have some of those same Tesla boards in our labs. To be fair, I don't think the actual modem is doing much in this context - in any case, they did not contact us for any support w.r.t. adapting anything to this new application. But

    • Will Tesla remotely disable any feature [slashdot.org] of the ventilator if one gets sold or is transferred / donated to another hospital?

      *ducks*

      I don't know. I guess it depends on how big you build your irrelevant strawman.

    • Will Tesla remotely disable any feature [slashdot.org] of the ventilator if one gets sold or is transferred / donated to another hospital?

      *ducks*

      Maybe, but on the other hand if it ever needs service, it will blast itself right out of the hospital and soft-land back at the factory.

    • We can either just go on a news headline and either blindly support Tesla or just give out hate. However, I find when these things happen there are often more complex sets of problems that happen beyond just wanting to screw over customers.

      Back nearly 20 years ago. I worked at a company that did repairs on Solid Ink Xerox (Previously Tektronix) printers. We were a Xerox certified repair shop, and if someone used 3rd party ink the warranty was voided, we would still fix the printer but we would charge the

  • Why does he think ... (Score:3)

    by Martin S. ( 98249 ) on Monday April 06, 2020 @04:12AM (#59912474) Journal

    Why does he think everything has to be about Elon Musk?

    If a doctors call this out as B.S. will he be accused of being a pediatrician /Rhetorical Irony

    • "Send in the submarine!"

    • Let's see if they can move as fast as Tesla.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by phayes ( 202222 )

      Running low/out of your paranoia meds? The video was made and released by Tesla employees (NOT Elon Musk) so you're clearly obsessing by making false statements about him.

    • Why does he think everything has to be about Elon Musk?

      Why does Cuomo think everything has to be about NY? From TFS:

      "Their time-frame, frankly, doesn't work for our immediate apex, because whether we're talking two days or 10 days, you're not going to make ventilators at that time," said Cuomo

      Maybe other places will need the ventilators in the coming months. Especially those that have sent them to NY. Once things get better in NY, other states will be dealing with this same issue. And once the US gets this under control, there will be other countries that will need help too.

      • Not to mention that this won't be the last pandemic the world sees where ventilators will be needed.

        What, do you think Tesla is just going to scrap the blueprint and prototype for this and forget it ever existed when the next variant of SARS comes around?

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by GeLeTo ( 527660 )
        The current WHO plan is to delay the virus as much as possible in order to prepare the health systems to handle the load once the restrictions are eased.
        There are some hotspot areas now - New York/USA, Lombardia/Italy, Madrid/Spain, but once restrictions are eased - every major city will become a hotspot.
        The demand for ventilators will skyrocket, at least in nations that don't have the discipline and culture of countries like S.Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and China.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by cb88 ( 1410145 )
          Will it acutally though... we already know a metric gigaton of us Americans are at home partying with friends... if anything stay at home orders and reducing store hours have probably accelerated how much it is passing around as it can actually end up with more people concentrated around each other.

          Going to work and doing most of your usual routine may actually result in less interpersonal contact for many people.

    • Why does he think everything has to be about Elon Musk?

      He's done some pretty amazing stuff.

      If he puts his engineers, money, and inventory onto a project and it saves a few thousand lives, LET him have another brag session. He'll have earned it.

      If that's one of his big motivators, we really ought to understand and approve of it. After all, it's also one of the big motivatos for Open Source.

      • Slashdot has had about a dozen submissions about cheap and easily built ventilators since the pandemic announcement that I've upvoted in the firehouse during last few weeks. Teams from around the world have designed and built cheap and simple prototype ventilators that can be built literally anywhere. The haven't sought fame and fortune. If he wanted to do good rather than gain publicity he would have promoted or facilitated some of those. A ventilator built from expensive repurposed Tesla parts has very li

        • Slashdot has had about a dozen submissions about cheap and easily built ventilators since the pandemic announcement that I've upvoted in the firehouse during last few weeks. Teams from around the world have designed and built cheap and simple prototype ventilators that can be built literally anywhere. The haven't sought fame and fortune.

          And so far none have shown any ability to make them. Why do you think that is? People just snub supposed cheap affordable designs, or maybe they aren't as easily manufactured as you think.

          The absolute worst is those people who say it can be built from off the shelf parts. That sound great, get the sweat shop to work. The reality is off the shelf parts are a logistical and assembly nightmare for production of anything other than prototypes.

          A ventilator built from expensive repurposed Tesla parts has very limited scope compared the MIT $100 design for example.

          False. Re-purposing an existing construction facility has far higher

        • You know that there are multiple classes of ventilator, right? The MIT $100 version that you are talking about is essentially an electric motor and cam to work a bag valve mask instead of a paramedic's hand.

          The one shown in the Tesla engineers' video is a world apart in complexity and information - it uses pressure sensors to be able to give a diagnostician feedback on how the patient is doing. It's far closer to what you would see in an ICU rather than the back of an ambulance.

          Both are needed, and both h

        • Slashdot has had about a dozen submissions about cheap and easily built ventilators since the pandemic announcement that I've upvoted in the firehouse during last few weeks. Teams from around the world have designed and built cheap and simple prototype ventilators that can be built literally anywhere. The haven't sought fame and fortune.

          A cheap motor squeezing an ambu bag does not a ventilator make. Where is the humidification? Where are the PEEPs to stop the avlioi from collapsing? How do you prevent barotrauma? Sticking a wind screen wiper motor to squeeze those shitty bags frees a hand, calling them a ventilator is incredibly misleading.

    • Don't mistake celebrity worship for celebrity ego. I certainly can't blame you for being annoyed by celebrity worship, I think it's a really detrimental part of our culture, but when he posts something about what he's doing (another annoying cultural habit, but ubiquitous) and people fawn over him, that's not a reason for him to stop doing things or for him to stop talking about them. Worship does not mean that he has a big ego, though it may give him a big ego if he's not careful about that.
  • He can make tesla from ventilators after the pandemic is over .. mwhahaha

    -- General Disarray

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by phayes ( 202222 )

      For New York City, yeah I hope they are peaking too soon for new build Tesla respirators to start coming out. The rest of the country will peak later when new build Tesla respirators will hopefully be available. Are you that much of a hater that you hope that new respirators supplies from Tesla aren't available when your mother/grandmother needs one?

      No need to answer, Haters gotta hate.

    • I'm sorry to inform you that The Simpsons already did it in season 51, episode 3.

    • I am sure he probably could. At least some parts from them. After WWII, many of these Car Companies who were conscripted into making Tanks, Boats and Aircraft use the parts to build automobiles again, probably taking apart of their undelivered/incomplete inventory.
      There is a reason why there is a big difference between Pre-WWII cars which looked like carriages without horses, and Post-WWII Cars that loked like aircraft without wings.

      They had the equipment and parts so they used them

  • Those apparently weren't ventilators in the boxes. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by shess ( 31691 ) on Monday April 06, 2020 @04:20AM (#59912502) Homepage

    https://futurism.com/elon-musk... [futurism.com]
    https://ftalphaville.ft.com/20... [ft.com]

    Apparently they were "BPAP" machines, which are like CPAP machines, but with extra settings to get more aggressive. There has been a lot of discussion about whether you can repurpose CPAP machines (which are pretty common) to be ventilators, but, unfortunately, they aren't quite the same thing. But these aren't that.

    https://aeroflowinc.com/need-v... [aeroflowinc.com]
    https://hackaday.com/2020/03/1... [hackaday.com]

    • He has both bought and delivered the convertible CPAP machines that the hospitals wanted, and sourced and supplied a good number of the full ventilators - basically, doing everything he can as well as having people working on building what they can.

      • Re:He has done both. (Score:5, Informative)

        by Rei ( 128717 ) on Monday April 06, 2020 @06:18AM (#59912726) Homepage

        ... and has received an endless stream of tweets of thanks [twitter.com] from hospitals receiving them. It's just mind-boggling how eager people are to try to tear down literally anything he does.

        I used to joke that Musk could cure cancer and people would rail against him, that the cure only cures a subset of cancers, causes headaches during the treatment, and took two month to develop during which some people who had cancer died. Well, this isn't exactly the same thing, but bloody close enough... :

        1) To anyone saying "CPAP and BiPAP machines aren't ventilators"... Yes, they are [twimg.com]. They are medically classified as ventilators. Their purpose is to help ventilate the lungs. In COVID-19 treatment, they're used for less-severe cases, freeing up invasive ventilators for more severe cases.

        2) To anyone claiming that they're not approved for treating COVID-19... yes, they are [fda.gov]. Re, aerosoliztion, they get reconfigured [twitter.com] with a filter before usage.

        3) To anyone claiming that this isn't what hospitals were expecting, you're also wrong [twitter.com]. Hospitals were informed in advance of what was available and what they could request, and thus knew exactly what they were getting, which is why you don't exactly see a bunch of sad faces in the endless stream of thank-you tweets.

        4) To anyone claiming that "invasive ventilators were expected", those were donated, too, as can be seen in the list of thank-you tweets above. Alongside gloves, masks, and all sorts of other supplies.

        5) Some of TSLAQ has been complaining that a Tesla logo can be seen on one of the ventilators [twimg.com]. It is not seen on the others [twimg.com], and was added by the staff for the photo. It should have clued people in, as that's not Tesla's current logo (shallow V, fatter/shorter spike, thinner cross, etc; they changed that years ago, but it's still used on third-party stickers). The staff named the ventilator the "Model V" [twitter.com] as thanks to Tesla.

        Meanwhile, Lambourghini is literally stitching their logo into face masks [volkswagenag.com], but you don't hear a peep about it, because there's not a veritable cult built around hating on Lambourghini.

        It's just such a terrible statement on humanity, that it's preditable that if you do good, undeniable good for other people, some people will line up to try to find some reason to tear into you for it. From people who haven't done a damned thing to help provide equipment to hospitals.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Rei ( 128717 )

          Forgot to include a link for above. Under "medically classified as ventilators", I intended to link this thread [twitter.com]. Code: MNT. Regulatory description: "Continuous ventilator". Device: "Ventillator, Continuous, Minimal Ventilatory Support, Faculty Use".

          Seriously, what is the notion behind the people trolling the donations? In what world do hospitals accept pallets full of undesired equipment and post thank-yous with pictures of smiling staff? I mean, seriously people....

          • To be fair, you don't know they're smiling. They're all wearing masks.

            That being said, haters gonna hate, even when the subject of that hate is literally saving lives.

        • I wanna buy a Lambo mask!
        • I would guess it's because he (Musk) is successful in a good way and the basement dwellers hate success stories that remind them of their own failures.

          But I think it is even more likely that it is just haters paid for the competition, because this story of "free market" where "everyone would have the same chance of success" only convinces the naive. In the real world, each company tries to destroy other competitors by any existing means, legal or illegal.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by trawg ( 308495 )

          Thanks for taking the time to write this up. I have seen so much FUD about Tesla's involvement & this was a great reference to what is actually going on.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by shess ( 31691 )

          ... and has received an endless stream of tweets of thanks [twitter.com] from hospitals receiving them. It's just mind-boggling how eager people are to try to tear down literally anything he does.

          Thank you for posting this information, it's useful stuff. The main point of my post is that there are a lot of people throwing around "We need X ventilators" and "I'm super smart and read a model over the weekend and we don't need X ventilators", and, unfortunately, many of them are probably talking about different things entirely. I include Cuomo and Kushner in this.

          I think the baseline point people need to take home is that "ventilator" covers a very wide space, and just because we have millions of one

  • With so may people talking about ventilators I got to hear quite a bit on how ventilators work and why they are so hard to make.

    One big problem with ventilators is the control system. A ventilator assists in breathing by forcing air or oxygen into the lungs, and too much can cause damage. To mange this pressure in the lungs means a very sophisticated control system so the patient is breathing with the machine instead of against it. One other means to manage this is to sedate the patient heavily so the machine does all the work, but this has it's own set of risks.

    Ventilators need to warm and humidify the air to keep the lungs from drying out. There's various means to achieve this but this adds to the complexity and therefore costs. The air must be filtered as well. This warming, humidifying, and filtration of air to the lungs is normally done by the nose and mouth but with a ventilator these are bypassed with a tube placed directly into the lungs.

    What also seems to be a big problem is that once people go on a respirator they will stay on them for days or weeks, and then they need to be carefully weaned off them. Having a machine breath for a person can leave them too weak to breathe on their own.

    What I also learned is the distinction between a respirator and a ventilator. A respirator is a device worn on the face to filter out particles in the air. These N95 masks people keep talking about would be an example of a respirator.

    One alternative to the ventilator I heard about was something called a "hemolung". This is a kind of artificial lung that adds oxygen to and removes CO2 from the blood directly. Blood is continuously drawn from the patient, processed, and then returned. This means the patient doesn't have a tube in their mouth, allowing them to talk and eat normally. This hemolung is critical for lung transplants but it sounds like these have been recently put in use for other cases where lung capacity is diminished.

    I have to wonder if the hemolung will someday soon replace ventilators as the primary means of treating people with difficulty breathing. An artificial lung like this is unlikely to be something a car maker can produce, and companies like Tesla are not equipped in the slightest to produce them. Tesla, and all who are similarly working on resolving this ventilator shortage, should be commended for their efforts and their efforts should continue. I'd like to see more discussion on the hemolung as I believe this may prove to be superior to a ventilator.

    It seems that with mild cases of lung problems simpler devices are proving helpful. Things like CPAP machines and just bottled oxygen. There's already an oxygen shortage, and CPAP machines might also be in short supply if they aren't already.

    In short, I didn't realize how difficult it was to make a safe ventilator, and if Tesla can make them from car parts on hand then they indeed have some very resourceful people.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by blindseer ( 891256 )

      I forgot to provide a link to an article about this artificial lung.

      https://www.bizjournals.com/pi... [bizjournals.com]

      This hemolung device sounds like something that could change how people look at the ventilator in the near future.

    • Sounds like a simplified cardiopulmonary bypass machine. Although it would not be standing in for the heart, I question whether it - the machine - would be significantly less complex or less expensive. The machine would still have to pump blood out of the patient and back in, so it still has to manage blood flow.

      • Yeah, way, way more complex and way, way more dangerous.

        Now, if you want less complex and less dangerous (in terms of invasive parts and lung damage), you'd do well to look to the past. There were "whole body" ventilators for patients of another viral epidemic - called "Iron Lungs". Dead simple and relatively safe. Cumbersome though.

      • Sounds like a simplified cardiopulmonary bypass machine.

        Not really. A bit more reading about this device tells me that this is very distinct from a cardiopulmonary bypass machine. The major distinction is the level of blood flow. These high flow devices are made to replace the lungs, this "hemolung" is a low flow device made to assist the lungs. The claim is that this is no more invasive than hemodialysis, which might explain the naming for the device. They use a single needle into a vein, which has channels in it for getting blood in and out. This isn't c

    • "These N95 masks people keep talking about would be an example of a respirator."

      Almost. There are N95 filter masks and N95 respirators. A respirator uses a flexible face mask to which filter cartridges are connected. A mask is just a piece of filter material shaped to fit the face. Both types tend to have an exhaust valve on the front that lets breath out so that exhaling doesn't push the mask away from the face, though not all N95 filter masks have one.

      Many people are confused by the difference between a m

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by eth1 ( 94901 )

      You're talking about ECMO (extra-corporeal membrane oxygenation). I read about these a few weeks ago in relation to covid, and the article mentioned that there were only about 150 of these machines available in the US. And they're way more complicated than a ventilator, so they're not really helpful for this crisis.

      • You're talking about ECMO (extra-corporeal membrane oxygenation).

        Yes, I am. What's different here is the complexity, cost, and applications of these ECMO devices compared to previous ECMO devices.

        I read about these a few weeks ago in relation to covid, and the article mentioned that there were only about 150 of these machines available in the US. And they're way more complicated than a ventilator, so they're not really helpful for this crisis.

        This hemolung device is still in the testing phase, which is why the numbers are limited. The claims being made on the hemolung is that they simplified the device because it is intended for people with temporary limited lung capacity, as opposed to the prior use as a heart-lung machine where it is taking over completely for the lungs.

        The idea on how this helps with COVID-19 is

    • One alternative to the ventilator I heard about was something called a "hemolung". This is a kind of artificial lung that adds oxygen to and removes CO2 from the blood directly. Blood is continuously drawn from the patient, processed, and then returned.

      And it's radically more dangerous than a ventilator. Patients using a hemolung are required to go on anticoagulants to prevent the machine's extremely invasive presence from inducing life-threatening blood clots. Elderly patients who are already in danger of having a stroke due to the condition of their arteries don't need yet another risk factor to compound the problem.

      As a general rule, anything that breaks into the cardiovascular system is more dangerous than alternatives which don't.

      • And it's radically more dangerous than a ventilator. Patients using a hemolung are required to go on anticoagulants to prevent the machine's extremely invasive presence from inducing life-threatening blood clots. Elderly patients who are already in danger of having a stroke due to the condition of their arteries don't need yet another risk factor to compound the problem.

        As a general rule, anything that breaks into the cardiovascular system is more dangerous than alternatives which don't.

        "Extremely invasive"? Did you read my other posts on this hemolung? The hemolung draws and returns blood to the patient with a single two channel needle into a vein in the arm, leg, or neck. This is not a heart-lung machine. This is no more invasive than hemodialysis, which is something some people will do at home.

        If there is a patient where anticoagulants would be a problem then don't use the hemolung, use a ventilator.

        I'll post a link I gave in another post since it seems you missed it.
        https://www.biz [bizjournals.com]

  • The idea that car parts can act as spare parts for the human body is interesting.

  • JCB+Dyson (Score:3)

    by ruddk ( 5153113 ) on Monday April 06, 2020 @06:45AM (#59912766)

    Apparently Dyson are working on ventilators as well and JCB are manufacturing the housings right now.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
    Imagine that JCB logo at the hospital. :) Thankfully I only had a powerfull CPAP when I spent a week and a half in ICU due to pneumonia (i think it is called CPAP with non invasive heated and moisturized air)

  • Looks like some pretty pricey hardware in there.

  • Watch the fucking video (Score:3)

    by nospam007 ( 722110 ) * on Monday April 06, 2020 @08:31AM (#59913014)

    And only then complain.
    Such a machine is way more complicated than a pair of bellows with a servo that the hobbyists build.

  • If they deliver working ventilators in quantity I will be the first to sing their praises. And it's not uncommon for Musk's enterprises to release glimpses into works in progress which I usually like. But for the ventilators it would be better if this were not a pioneering effort, what we need is QUANTITY OUTPUT and I am holding my applause for that.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Guspaz ( 556486 )

      Musk tweeted weeks ago that their in-house efforts to build ventilators was unlikely to produce anything before the peak (when they were needed), but they will come in very handy if there are additional waves of infection.

      This is not just a problem with Tesla, it's a problem with everybody repurposing manufacturing capabilities for ventilators and PPE. The increase in manufacturing capacity or new manufacturing capacity is not going to take effect until after the peak. But it'll ensure that we don't get int

  • can let no government cash cow go unmilked.

  • Is it common for a ventilator to fill the lung with a "square edge" pulse of air/oxygen ? It seems quite un-organic to have the air rush in going from ambient to positive pressure in an instant rather than building more slowly. Other people have also mentioned air moisture control

    Also I wonder if it is possible to improve on nature a little, eg. perhaps install an outlet at the bottom of the lung and somehow push air through continuously, that would seem to be more eficient than the breathing process that,

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by BranMan ( 29917 )

      Actually I was thinking something similar - instead of a tube into the top of the lungs and a breath in breath out rhythm, why not 2 smaller tubes down into the depths of each of the two lungs. Then a constant flow of fresh air (suitably filtered, moisturized, etc.) to the bottom of the lungs, and a constant flow out of the mouth.

      Would that work?

  • Why all the attention on ventilators? CPAP machines are much better: they are easier to use and need fewer medical staff. People use them at home without medical supervision after some straight forward instruction.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    We should worry more about the looming shortage of medical grade oxygen needed for more than just ventilators.

  • By the time Musk/Tesla release them, they will be too expensive, way late, and have features removed.

  • Here's a video from a Youtube channel called Real Engineering, produced by Brian McManus, a biomedical and aerospace engineer in Galway, Ireland, who worked for Medtronic. Good explanation of ventilator design.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
    A Guide To Designing Low-Cost Ventilators for COVID-19
    Real Engineering
    Apr 4, 2020

    He's critiquing the cheap ventilators that people are proposing, including this MIT design. https://scitechdaily.com/mit-p... [scitechdaily.com]

    (This is my understanding of what he's saying. People with more

  • For 40 years we have been working hard to cut the government. Respectable looking politicians in suits claimed to be with solemn face "small government conservatives". Others vehemently declared they wanted a government small enough to be drowned in a bath tub.

    Well, you got it. Now you go and ask all those politicians who actively blocked access to health care for 40 million Americans what to do next. Patchwork of private healthcare insurers can not handle pandemic. In a pandemic only a strong government,

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