San Francisco Becomes First Major US City To Mandate Proof of Full Vaccinations For Certain Indoor Activities (cnn.com) 286
"San Francisco became the the first major US city to mandate proof of full vaccinations for certain indoor activities Thursday," reports CNN. Earlier this month, New York City announced a similar requirement, but it's only requiring workers and patrons have at least one vaccine dose administered. CNN reports: City residents age 12 and older will now be required to show proof they have been fully vaccinated against Covid-19 in order to enter indoor restaurants, bars, gyms and theaters, as well as large event spaces with at least 1,000 people, according to an announcement from Mayor London Breed. The new mandate is scheduled to go into effect August 20.
"We know that for our city to bounce back from the pandemic and thrive, we need to use the best method we have to fight COVID-19 and that's vaccines," Breed said in a statement. "Many San Francisco businesses are already leading the way by requiring proof of vaccination for their customers because they care about the health of their employees, their customers, and this City." The San Francisco health order also beefs up a state order mandating vaccines for health care workers by extending the directive to pharmacists, dental offices, home health aides and residential care centers.
"We know that for our city to bounce back from the pandemic and thrive, we need to use the best method we have to fight COVID-19 and that's vaccines," Breed said in a statement. "Many San Francisco businesses are already leading the way by requiring proof of vaccination for their customers because they care about the health of their employees, their customers, and this City." The San Francisco health order also beefs up a state order mandating vaccines for health care workers by extending the directive to pharmacists, dental offices, home health aides and residential care centers.
man, I really love living here (Score:4, Insightful)
in this region of the country.
the funniest thing: the so-called 'right to lifers' are the ones who are actually killing their population!
have you thought about it that way? right-to-live goes right out the window when its not about religion. and the south is dying in huge numbers. hey, if that's the hill you want to die on, would it be ghoulish to say that, come next election time, maybe the population will have shifted more blue? thank you for dying for our collective good, btw. appreciated.
the right-to-lifers are also the ones spouting 'mah freedumbs' and not wanting any invasive medical procedures done to them (needle in the arm is major, to them). and yet, I wonder how many of them support pre-employment drug testing. that's pretty invasive, in terms of denying someone an opportunity in life simply due to an IDEOLOGY difference; and one that is approaching nil, more and more, over time. how many of those 'mah freedumbs!' morons still insist that THEY have a right to tell YOU what you can and can't put in YOUR body?
this country is funny. but not 'haha' funny. more like 'smell' funny.
Re:man, I really love living here (Score:5, Interesting)
Dallas County is now out of pediatric ICU beds. https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/13... [cnn.com]
For the record the state is suing the school district for requiring masks...
In their defense (Score:3)
Also you'd think a sitting member of Congress confessing that he's trying to cause Chaos to win an election would be bigger news.
Re:In their defense (Score:4)
Well, just one more proof that most politicians are psychos. If you do this to your people intentionally, I think you have lost your right to be a part of society.
I wouldn't say most politicians (Score:3, Informative)
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Sure. In the current crisis some high-profile Republicans basically act as forces of evil and claims the Democrats are not much better amount, at best, to lying by misdirection. But I doubt a similar situation in reverse could not have arisen as well given different circumstances.
That said, the Republican party has utterly and completely lost its way. They are trying to burn down the house in order to take ownership of it. The sad thing is that so many people go right along with that destructive and demente
Re:man, I really love living here (Score:5, Informative)
Dallas County is now out of pediatric ICU beds. https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/13... [cnn.com]
For the record the state is suing the school district for requiring masks...
Meanwhile, Florida has successfully achieved a new record for daily cases [cnn.com]. And while over 40,000 Floridians have so far died from covid, Governor DeathSentence is out fundraising [jsonline.com] while at the same time telling people in his state not to wear masks. In addition, four educators in the same school district died within 24 hours from covid [khou.com]. At least three of them were not vaccinated.
In other news, parents in Nevada sent their kid to school even though they received a positive covid test for the kid, exposing 80 other students to the virus [thehill.com]. Mississippi's hospital system could collapse in the next ten days [npr.org] due to the unrelenting cases of covid, 98% of which are from unvaccinated people. And eight states make up fifty percent of all covid cases [cnn.com] in the country.
So yeah. Those pro-life Republicans are doing a great job at preserving the sanctity of life. Because, you know, all lives matter.
Re:man, I really love living here (Score:5, Funny)
You can't make this stuff up. A few years ago I would have laughed.
Re:man, I really love living here (Score:5, Informative)
Yesterday:
29 people died in New York
357 people died in Florida
These two states have similar populations.
Re: man, I really love living here (Score:4, Informative)
As of March 7, 2021 we are no longer collecting new data. Learn about available federal data.
Re: man, I really love living here (Score:3, Informative)
Are you retarded? Why not look at the stats after the first wave in early 2020 while everyone was just figuring shit out. Or look at it post vaccine availability. Youâ(TM)ll see,as with most things related to well-being and human development, that the blue states do far better than red states.
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Florida currently has 800% more deaths in a 7-day period than New York.
Which is mind blowing, because New York has 9.5% less people.
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https://dangoodspeed.com/covid/total-deaths-since-july [dangoodspeed.com]
Re: man, I really love living here (Score:2)
LMGTFY
https://www.fox5ny.com/news/ny... [fox5ny.com]
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How utterly evil can you get? It is like these scum are trying to set new records...
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Now it's all of North Texas out of pediatric ICU beds:
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/co... [nbcdfw.com]
The curves are still going up, and fast.
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It's actually the other way around. The county is suing the state so that they can require masks. As are Austin, Fort Worth, Houston, San Antonio, and Galveston.
What do all these places have in common? Medical schools.
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Are you drunk?
No, are you? If you would force a woman to have a child, yet refuse to allow simple working prevention methods for children - you can't even claim to love children.
Republicans are sacrificing children to fellate Trump's base.
Freedom baby - except when the state decides to remove it from the schools.
Re:man, I really love living here (Score:4)
Republicans are sacrificing children
The demographic with the lowest vaccination rate is African-Americans. They aren't Republicans.
Re:man, I really love living here (Score:4, Informative)
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Something something, Tuskegee experiment...
Exactly. There were other examples like Surgical experiments on female slaves, done without anesthesia.
If I were of African descent, I would certainly approach the vaccine with trepidation.
Those who I know did, and decided that vaccination was the best approach, and vaccinated. I'm from an academic environment though, so the demographic is a bit skewed toward people who believe in science.
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Anyone who thinks this is a good idea should read about the tragedies of Pandermix. And this time liability shields are baked into the law. If you are harmed by these vaccines, even your hospital bills are your issue.
Which is why you as an informed person, who has studied the literature and knows all of the risks and beenefits - have chosen death or disfigurement over the vaccine - And never let it be said that I don't support your right to death or disfigurement.
Re: man, I really love living here (Score:4, Insightful)
Oh god saloomy ; so glad you warned me. I won't take a one in a million chance of a side effect. Instead I'll take a one in 10 chance of long term health damage and ten times the risk of blood clots [bmj.com] by getting the COVID-19. It's really great the way you tell us that getting the disease comes with free insurance.
</sarcasm>
Re: man, I really love living here (Score:4, Funny)
If you are harmed by these vaccines, even your hospital bills are your issue.
Aren't your hospital bills always your issue in America?
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If you are harmed by these vaccines
I got my shot as soon as it was available for my age group. I even made a roughly 4 hour round-trip road trip for it, because that was the closest location with appointments available.
The only "harm" I have experienced since then is the societal fuckery that is continuing to ensue because some folks still insist on not getting their shot(s).
Re: man, I really love living here (Score:5, Insightful)
If you are harmed by these vaccines
I got my shot as soon as it was available for my age group. I even made a roughly 4 hour round-trip road trip for it, because that was the closest location with appointments available.
The only "harm" I have experienced since then is the societal fuckery that is continuing to ensue because some folks still insist on not getting their shot(s).
Hospitals are turning away cancer patients to treat anti-vaxxers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] First these anti-vaxxers call medical science a sham, when they then catch Covid they crawl back to medical science, beg to be cured by medical science and unnecessarily take away medical resources from other people who seriously need them. I have previously compared anti-vaxxers to flat-earthers. I now realise that I owe flat-earthers an apology because, while their belief in a flat earth is ridiculous, at least it is mostly harmless.
Re: man, I really love living here (Score:5, Interesting)
Hospitals are turning away cancer patients to treat anti-vaxxers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] First these anti-vaxxers call medical science a sham, when they then catch Covid they crawl back to medical science, beg to be cured by medical science and unnecessarily take away medical resources from other people who seriously need them. I have previously compared anti-vaxxers to flat-earthers. I now realise that I owe flat-earthers an apology because, while their belief in a flat earth is ridiculous, at least it is mostly harmless.
That sums it up quite nicely. I think the insurance companies need to announce that beginning in three months, they will dramatically reduce or decline coverage for hospitalization in people who aren't vaccinated unless they have a medical exemption. I'm pretty sure a lot of people would get a vaccine the next day.
Life insurance won't pay out if you off yourself. Why should health insurance?
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Ol is right. There were some great clips of pro-lifers talking about it on Last Week Tonight a while back, e.g. claiming that condoms are ineffective so you might as well not bother with them: https://youtu.be/4NNpkv3Us1I?t... [youtu.be]
That's the advice they give to women, don't bother with contraception because it doesn't work. It's a lie calculated to produce more children.
Re: The Mark of the Beast (Score:2)
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Did you just go full Revelations? OMG, you did, you just went full Revelations!
I Revelation'd him back.
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Re: man, I really love living here (Score:2)
This isnâ(TM)t a tragedy. Itâ(TM)s natural selection. Iâ(TM)m not going to shed a tear for people stubbornly determined to kill themselves and their children. The rest of us bear no responsibility.
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There was a study some time ago that really was an eye-opener for me: Religious people and in particular religious children are less compassionate. Why? Because they think they already have that covered by being religious and hence they do not need to try hard. One implication is that the claim that religion is the basis of morality is a complete lie. It is a traditional marketing-lie though: Your product is less sturdy? Claim it is more so! Your product tastes worse? Claim "new, improved taste!". Your "wor
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Pro-life has always been about violence against women and misogyny. From the very beginning it was based on hatred of women.
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You want some essential oils to help wash down those plant based vaccines?
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Both are nearly all republicans.
Re: man, I really love living here (Score:2)
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The Young And Secular Are Least Vaccinated [religionunplugged.com]
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Using other known demographic information, his data would suggest that the southeast is populated primarily with young, secular people, and the west and northeast are populated primarily by evangelicals, as those are the areas with the highest and lowest vaccination rates.
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Universally overlap? Of course not.
But overlap? Give me a fucking break [mayoclinic.org].
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And the Liberals with "My Body My Choice" are the ones mandating vaccines....
Not quite. They are proposing not allowing unvaccinated people to congregate in activities with other people.
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That being said, I'm all for really "mandating" the vaccine (i.e., welding them into their fucking homes with feeding tubes drilled through the door), but I suspect that may be politically painful for everybody in power.
That being said, your overall point isn't wrong, but you still had to prop it up
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Your body can choose to stay home. Or seek out your anti-vax friends homes. Or, god forbid, go into the actual outdoors.
"Our public facilities, my choice" doesn't have the same ring to it during an outbreak of communicable disease though, does it.
Too bad.
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uh huh. Totally not the religious folks, wink wink, nod nod.
Re: man, I really love living here (Score:2)
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I'm not sure how that's relevant, unless you're trying to argue that maps aren't related to demographics. I'd be very interested to hear that thesis
Yup. No relation at all.
Motherfucker, are you for real?
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When thou art vexed with ye pox, hath thou taken radish, bishopwort, garlic, wormwood, helenium, cropleek and hollowleek, celandine, red nettle, or leeches?
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Good (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't like it? eliminate private property laws, because you are on the wrong side of the law if you think you have the right to spread your virus as a fundamental right.
tl;dr version - I will stand my ground if you try to trespass on my property without proof of vaccination - property rights baby!
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That won't get you to virus-free (Score:5, Informative)
Delta's superpower is sometimes being able to spread among vaccinated people. See what's happening in Iceland. They went from 2 cases to 1590 in a month despite the best vaccination uptake you could realistically hope for.
What you can do, with that kind of moving perimeter, is keep hospital beds free for stroke and heart attack and accident victims. Besides saving lives. Very much worth while, the closer we come to it the better, but "virus-free" is the wrong phrase.
Iceland, you see, despite that COVID surge is not having mass deaths.
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For anyone wondering that link is a 15 minute rant by a sweaty looking man in a recliner.
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Heaps better than the one minute rant by a sweaty slashdotter.
Re: Good (Score:2)
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He's pro right-to-repair (obvious when one looks at what he does) and pro privacy. Not sure how much research is needed there.
So, (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: So, (Score:2)
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Where does it say the determination has to be reliable? No, the idiots will make fake vaccination cards, which people are already doing (their religious believes forbid them from getting vaccinated, but doesn't forbid them from lying about it). So what, it's not reliable any more than a bouncer at a club is reliable, or that the cashier will spot all fake IDs, etc. It's a city, it's not like they're going to have prison time for breaking the rules. Probably someone now doesn't understand this and thinks
Being vaccinated helps (Score:3)
Near perfect protection against fatal infections, and continued useful protection against infection even with delta running around. Consider the wedding in Texas where 92 people crowded around someone with an active case. At the end of it 6 people had cases and 86 did not.
Even without the value against transmission, they'd be helpful in keeping hospital beds free for non-COVID patients.
There's no 100% reliable way to tell whether someone is old enough to buy liquor, either. All you can do in life is improve
Papers please.... (Score:2)
Weak sauce, actually (Score:3)
Compare it to what the Supreme Court upheld 7-2 in 1905. Search on Jacobson v. Massachusetts. That wasn't about going out in public. It made it a crime not to be vaccinated at all.
Anything less than that is a half measure that will leave people dead for no good reason.
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Northern California is a weird bird and I say this as a born and bred Northern Californian.
We can be very Leftist but on the other hand many of our "most leftist" communities refuse to authorize the kind of housing development that might allow our working class to live anywhere near where they work (picture fast food workers driving an hour to get to work). Silicon Valley is the worst devil in all this, it's a region with major urban area housing demands but small suburbs urban planning and it's all thanks
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You already need "papers" of one kind or another to enter a bar, a gym or a theater, as well as most large events. Some of this is even mandated by law, and justified by public health. What's new here?
Certain Indoor Activities (Score:2)
Like sleeping. And pooping.
Let's just end this. (Score:3)
It's pretty clear that we're moving in the direction already and that it will happen eventually. It's already fully legal to do and has already withstood SCOTUS scrutiny (Jacobson v. Massachusetts). So for Cthulu's sake let's knock off the crap and bite the bullet. End the mask mandates and closures and distancing all that crap. Do NOT entitle every random bouncer, maitre d, and airport securtyGoon pretend they're a doctor. And make it a goddamned VACCINE MANDATE instead so we can all go back to our normal lives.
"Oh, but delta variant" people might say. But that shit is new. And the vaccines were opened up to all of us on 4/15. It we hadn't been kowtowing to the anti-vaxer plague rats and had done a mandate in the first place; this whole ordeal would have been OVER on May 20th, even allowing for the two weeks after the second shot.
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When I try to do the numbers, against delta's reproductive number it looks like we need both vaccines and other interventions (masks/distance/HEPA/222 nm UV-C/whatever).
Vaccines first.
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There's a large population of people who can't get vaccinated currently, and it appears that getting infected still causes long Covid in 10-30% of them. They're called children.
Once again a contest (Score:5, Interesting)
Last year it was who could lock down the hardest and longest. This year it's who can put up the highest hoops in the most places for ordinary citizens to jump through.
I still maintain that mandating segregation based on medical condition is a violation of either the ADA or the 14th Amendment, but I'll add that the rationale makes less sense when you realize that you're making life harder for vaccinated people *and* just shunting unvaccinated people to hang out with other antivaxxers.
From where I'm sitting it's all cost and dubious payoff.
Discuss.
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Well, if it is a violation of the 14th amendment, someone needs to inform the supreme court that they need to change their precedent. Since quarantines are absolutely legal according to SCOTUS.
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Running around un-vaccinated is like carrying a gun that pulls itself out and fires in a random direction every now and then.
Plenty of libertarians acknowledge the appropriateness of using force to prevent a situation like that.
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Just so we're clear, you're arguing that the ADA somehow protects you from being segregated... based on whether or not you're vaccinated?
That is a truly, truly, interesting reading of the statute.
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Probably true for the 1 in a 100,000 who has a valid medical condition to not get vaccinated. It is a very low number. There's also the under 12's who also can't currently get vaccinated.
Which fake doc to use then? (Score:2)
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You know it’s less actual work to get the vaccine.
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Less work and it's free and it protects you from a disease that has a worrisome chance of crippling you.
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Coz the state has about zero clue who is vaccinated.
Bullshit.
https://myvaccinerecord.cdph.c... [ca.gov]
One might question how complete the data is -- no doubt records are missing. But as a single data point, mine is in there, and I have submitted nothing directly to the State of California.
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Nurse must have submitted them, because I didn't have anything to do with it, and the state has record of both of my doses.
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In seven states and D.C., people can look up their state immunization records at https://myirmobile.com/ [myirmobile.com].
Re: Which fake doc to use then? (Score:2)
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Doesn't matter. This was not intended to be an air tight lockdown with no possibility of cheating. Of course they know there will be cheating. But the inconvenience of coming up with a fake vaccine card is enough to keep some people away, and probably even get a couple people to get off their ass and get the shot.
Complaining about this is like complaining about laws against jaywalking ("but they'll just cross the road when no one's looking, it's ludicrous how out of control this city is!").
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Actually, if it's like my state, the health department has a set of records of who's immunized against what. I made an account and downloaded my records. Handy to know what I've already taken care of.
There certainly will be fools who pay for a fake vaccination document rather than get a free vaccine that could save their lives. I'm not betting their numbers will be enough to derail the effort.
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States maintain vaccination status databases. The nurse that vaccinated you submitted paperwork to the state as soon as you left the room.
I just had to produce my state record the other day for work.
Effectiveness update Aug2021 (Score:3, Informative)
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1
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I noticed that. The Pfizer shot is particularly useless.
The is also this,
https://www.economist.com/grap... [economist.com]
And that matches this (cases vs age) from Washington state.
https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergen... [wa.gov]
Under 35, half the cases, 1% of the deaths, over 80, 3% of the cases 47% of the deaths.
I personally checked the John Hopkins risk calculator and got a literal one in a million chance of dying of COVID. A benefit of not being fat and a non smoker? I don't know how their calculator works.
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I noticed that. The Pfizer shot is particularly useless.
96% effective against hospitalisation [www.gov.uk] is useless? Do tell me your wonder-solution. Then again, maybe not. Magazine articles published in March, so data from January. Maybe not the person I'd trust to tell me that water is safe to drink.
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I noticed that. The Pfizer shot is particularly useless.
Potentially. The study outlines ways they could be wrong about the determination due to assumptions they made, and didn't have the data to correct for.
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The important part that you omitted is that despite infection, very few people need to be hospitalized. This is why a crazy high number of people being hospitalized are the unvaccinated and the people dying are almost exclusively unvaccinated.
Re:Effectiveness update Aug2021 (Score:4, Insightful)
Due to Delta, herd immunity isn't going to happen. The vaccines still seem to give a lot of protection. Your article doesn't say anything about the vaccination status of those being hospitalized or dying, but it likely the unvaccinated getting really sick. 25% of the UK's population is still a lot of people that are unvaccinated.
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Still one epsilon away from 100% at preventing fatal cases and very effective at keeping people out of the clutches of hospital billing departments.
If 50% of people who would otherwise get infected don't, that's 50% of spread that doesn't happen. Useful.
Re:Effectiveness update Aug2021 (Score:5, Informative)
What effectiveness? Effective against COVID-19 or contracting SARS-COV-2? No one cares if you catch the virus. The only thing relevant is keeping people out of hospital due to the disease COVID-19, and for that the vaccine's effectiveness is still over 90% from your own link.
Also from your own link only one of the vaccines dropped below 50% effectiveness against contracting SARS-COV-2 in the study.
People are talking about this. They just read the study properly and aren't trying to make it into the shock story you are.
Just ask for voter registration..... (Score:2)
Re: Data Points That Don't Fit the Narrative (Score:2)
For most people in these professions, the thinking stops at "I'm gonna be on the TV!"
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That was a mighty long rant to parrot the minority vaccine numbers. All the other sock puppet accounts are too low on karma.
Re: Your Mom (Score:2)
Your mom got the johnson. And then the other johnson.
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I was in a restaurant where most of the patrons and staff were unmasked and nobody had to prove they were safe to be around. It definitely did not feel right.
Re: Huh. (Score:4, Insightful)
The liberal left of old would, in addition to specific social issues, tend to defend people fired or marginalized for their beliefs political or otherwise, would typically side strongly with free speech, minority viewpoints and beliefs, economic free trade, nondiscrimination, human rights and individual autonomy, and anticorporation interests. The liberal leftists are forced out of the discussion now, they currently have no party representing them, and now are mingling on the middle of the room, confused as to why their party now is allied with megacorporations that are cracking down on alternative viewpoints, suppressing speech except for their viewpoints only, schmoozing with genocidal, brainwashing authoritarian governments while seeming to regard them as more of a mentor to be followed than a force to be opposed, and gleefully imposing pandemic controls like a kid who found the key to their parent's liquor cabinet. The liberal leftists are mingling there in the middle with all the reasonable conservatives of the same vintage who were similarly taken by surprise that their former party is now composed of crazies as well who have decided to build a platform around reactionarily opposing the new authoritarian left on the issues, but not on the authoritarianism, leading to this crazy platform where now the right is trying to see if they too can impose the worst elements of their political vision by fiat. This is happening now with the Republicans be like hey, the leftist governors got away with imposing masks mandates in their states and everyone basically went along with it, so let's see if our governors can impose mandate bans. Regardless of the merit of the idea--and the right picks really dumb ideas like vaccines to oppose--if the left is going to go full authoritarian, then the right is like now let's see if we can impose our wacko visions too.
The bootlickers never seem to see the problem with authoritarianism that flatters their fantasies. I can't imagine any legal principle that would let a state governor to force people to wear masks in all private businesses, that wouldn't also give a governor the power to ban people from wearing masks in the same circumstances. They either have the power to do that kind of thing or they don't. Do you feel comfortable with the idea of a conservative governor banning the wearing of masks, and fining people who wear them? Sounds crazy, but what if they really thought masks were counterproductive, as some people thought early in the pandemic, and were earnestly trying to slow the spread? They either have the authority to dictate that, or they don't, and you should primarily be concerned about the power implications. The right isn't even going so far as to ban mask wearing; they only dipped their toes in the water to see if they could ban localities or government entities from requiring masks, but it should be a wakeup call for the people out there supporting authoritarian measures that they happen to agree with.
When constraints on power are relaxed in emergencies, it real never, ever ends up being a good thing in the long run, whether it's the right doing it after 911 because terrorism, or the left doing it for COVID. Nobody wants to sound like they support terrorism or for people to think they are white-eyed antivaxers so they don't oppose the power.