NYC Will Require Vaccines For Entry To Restaurants and Gyms; Requirement Can Be Met With An App (theverge.com) 492
Mayor Bill de Blasio announced today that New York City will become the first major U.S. city to require proof of vaccination to enter all restaurants, fitness centers and indoor entertainment venues. "If you're unvaccinated, unfortunately, you will not be able to participate in many things," de Blasio said. "If you want to participate in our society fully, you've got to get vaccinated." As The Verge reports, "New Yorkers can meet those requirements by carrying their vaccination card or scanning and storing it in one of two authorized mobile apps." From the report: The spread of the highly contagious Delta variant is being cited as a reason to increase restrictions without returning to a full lockdown or other measures. The program is scheduled to launch on August 13th, with enforcement slated to start on September 13th. It doesn't introduce any new documentation; the name is a reference to it serving as a "key" to the city's recovery.
Workers and patrons can confirm their vaccination status (at least one dose administered) in one of three ways: Vaccination card; NYC COVID Safe exposure notification app (iOS, Android); or NYS Excelsior Pass app.
Workers and patrons can confirm their vaccination status (at least one dose administered) in one of three ways: Vaccination card; NYC COVID Safe exposure notification app (iOS, Android); or NYS Excelsior Pass app.
This won't survive a lawsuit (Score:3, Insightful)
Massive government overreach again.
Re:This won't survive a lawsuit (Score:5, Insightful)
But is it really government overreach if it's for the health and security of the majority?
Think seatbelts, helmets, ABS brakes, FDA, etc...
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Being elected the mayor of a city doesn't give you the power to rule by decree.
Re:This won't survive a lawsuit (Score:4, Insightful)
Being a health commissioner however does give you a significant amount of authority during a health emergency. This has been held up by the courts. These fights today are not new ones, people sued in the past over unfair quarantines interfering with their rights.
Now the states who did not like this did indeed make provisions that their "emergency" was very limited in time and had a cutoff date, back when they thought it was just going to last a month or two.
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Requiring you to be vaccinated would be ruled legal in courts.
Forcing restaurants to verify your vaccination status FOR the city's government, without compensation, would be questionable. The city enforces its laws, not you or local businesses. If they want this law to be enforced, then they should have an elite group of enforcers in front of every restaurant, and then they can shake you down for your vax status before entering.
Re:This won't survive a lawsuit (Score:5, Insightful)
Forcing restaurants to verify your vaccination status FOR the city's government, without compensation, would be questionable. The city enforces its laws, not you or local businesses. If they want this law to be enforced, then they should have an elite group of enforcers in front of every restaurant, and then they can shake you down for your vax status before entering.
I guess business owners can stop checking IDs at the bar according to your logic, huh?
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And other restaurant owners will check vaccination status because they give a damn about their fellow human beings and aren't oppositional-defiant assholes.
Those restaurants, in addition to grocery stores and bodegas, will satisfy the "food is a requirement for life" criterion, even in your bizarro universe where restaurant owners shut down rather than
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Do we know this was done without city council authorization?
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Supreme Court already has a precedent about quarantines and the authority of local health officials.
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>"But is it really government overreach if it's for the health and security of the majority?"
Yes. In government set up with Constitutional rights, rights are NOT about majority rule.
If you are vaccinated, you have health and security. If you don't, that is your choice/risk. If you don't want to go into the restaurant or gym because you don't believe your vaccine will work (hint: it does), then don't. If you want to wear an N95 with your vaccine, then you are free to do so.
Re:This won't survive a lawsuit (Score:5, Interesting)
>"Those who are vaccinated can still transmit the virus [cdc.gov]. And they may not know they are transmitting because they are vaccinated."
Which is more reason to be vaccinated. It is available to all who are at risk and has been for a very long time now. But for those who choose not to, it is their own body. The ridiculous over-reach BEFORE vaccines was bad enough. But post-vaccine, it is just abusive and alarming.
>"It would seem the government trying to protect its people through quarantines and vaccinations would certainly full under promoting the general welfare."
So would all kinds of things- like outlawing anything dangerous- cars, motorcycles, scooters, skateboards, smoking, drinking alcohol, drugs, sugar, swimming, power tools.... you get the idea.
Freedom and safety are opposed. You can't increase both, only trade one for the other. We need to be responsible for our own lives and decisions as much as possible and know that living with freedom carries risk.
Government banning unvaccinated people from doing things isn't reasonable. Doing it by decree even less so. And this is especially true given the extraordinarily small amount of risk to those who are vaccinated. I support education, warnings, research, but not force.
Re:This won't survive a lawsuit (Score:4, Insightful)
As soon as car accidents are contagious, sure.
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As soon as car accidents are contagious, sure.
So a driver's license is government overreach?
Re:This won't survive a lawsuit (Score:4, Informative)
Now you're sounding like those who claim covid is not that serious and is just a mild flu.
Note, auto deaths in US for 2019 (pre-pandemic) was about 36 thousand. Covid deaths in US for 2020 was about 377 thousand.
Here's a lovely figure: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volum... [cdc.gov]
Figure 1, Granted, it's provisional, but it's going to be pretty close to the real thing.
Re:This won't survive a lawsuit (Score:4, Insightful)
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But muh freedomz!
Which ones exactly?
Uhhh you know freedomz and mah rights!
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If people would exercise their personal responsibility and get vaccinated this wouldn't be happening.
Why is this 'troll'? When people start dying others have to act. Many of you are mad at the WRONG PEOPLE.
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You can only discriminate against protected classes. Being unvaccinated is not a protected class.
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Considering that "protected classes" are literally defined by the discrimination that they suffer what you say cannot possibly be true...other than the unvaccinated not being a protected class. The unvaccinated are not being discriminated against regardless, any more than Ebola patients being quarantined represents discrimination. Accepting that there's even an argument to be made here contributing the the problem. The unvaccinated should be be held criminally accountable, this vaccine should be mandator
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Mandatory vaccination survived litigation all the way to the Supreme Court in 1905 (Jacobson v. Massachusetts). This is a lesser intervention, sort of like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org].
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Massive government overreach again.
If the job of government isn't to govern then what is it?
This is currently a pandemic of the unvaccinated. That's where the virus is replicating, breeding, and mutating. It's not in civilization's best interest to let massive numbers of reluctant people cause an Epsilon variant or Zeta variant or whichever one punches through our vaccines and kills us. It's not in society's best interest to allow the freedoms of the uneducated, frightened and selfish to impinge on the lives of the informed.
This is ve
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There are billions of unvaccinated. There will still be billions of unvaccinated years from now. Variants are going to happen.
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Thanks for quoting a senile alzheimer's patient who can't climb a flight of stairs without tripping multiple times.
That is not an accurate assessment of Dr. Rochelle Walensky's health status.
The virus is replicating, breeding, and mutating just fine in both vaccinated and unvaccinated people.
Cherry-picked numbers aside... oh fuck it we all know why you left out the hospitalization aspect of it.
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"Thanks for quoting a senile alzheimer's patient who can't climb a flight of stairs without tripping multiple times."
At least he doesn't walk up those stairs with toilet paper on his shoe, or grab on for dear life when he walks down a gentle slope. At least we no longer have a president that has to be rushed out of the room after he shits his pants.
"Wrong."
You're arguing it is in our best interest to allow new variants to kill us?
"75% of people infected in the recent Massachusetts COVID outbreak were fully
Ask Typhoid Mary (Score:2)
Re:This won't survive a lawsuit (Score:5, Informative)
By December 1901, more than 400,000 Bostonians had been vaccinated. Nonetheless, continued reports of smallpox cases led the Board of Health to order that “all the inhabitants of this city who have not been successfully vaccinated since January 1, 1897, be vaccinated or revaccinated forthwith." . . . his epidemic led to a landmark legal case on the constitutionality of compulsory vaccination.25,26 In Jacobson v. Massachusetts, a citizen challenged a Massachusetts law that allowed the Cambridge Board of Health to fine him for refusing revaccination. Jacobson argued that the law opposed “the inherent right of every freeman to care for his own body and health in such a way as to him seems best.”25 In 1905, the U.S. Supreme Court voted seven to two in favor of the state, ruling that although the state could not pass laws requiring vaccination in order to protect an individual, it could do so to protect the public in the case of a dangerous communicable disease.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/... [nejm.org]
What New York is doing is really very modest in comparison.
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Won't survive a lawsuit? LOL already has. Supreme Court has ALREADY ruled that governments can REQUIRE vaccines.
You are a complete idiot, no surprise of course.
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Massive government overreach again.
RIght - A person has the rights of their body.
What is the point of ultra-forgable requirements? (Score:4, Insightful)
Given any of the three requirements can probably be easily forged, what is even the point here?
Also am I the only one that finds it a little disturbing just how racist this new plan is? In NYC only 24% of the black and 28% of the Hispanic population has had one shot [ny1.com].
So this new rule just about makes all of NYC a de-facto whites-only supper club...
Or will the new rule simply be ignore for people of color?
Re:What is the point of ultra-forgable requirement (Score:5, Insightful)
Or am I missing something?
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Its a right wing talking point and classic whataboutism. Sock puppet accounts here constantly post about low vaccine rates among black people and latinos. I don’t see anti vaccine and anti science propaganda on BET or Telemundo, only Fox and NewsMax.
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Of course he isn't. Point out one word in his post that would imply that.
The problem isn't low vaccination rates, it's people who actively work against efforts to control the disease. The problem is Republicans, and it is Republicans that are contantly pushing this narrative that people of color are the unvaccinated ones.
We have two groups of concern, those who are not YET vaccinated and those who refuse vaccination. People of color are largely in the first, assholes are in the second. Which one are you
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I thought the vaccine there was free to any citizen
It is, and at this point anyone can easily get one who wants one.
If people choose not to get the vaccine and then get the card, I can't understand how it is racist.
Get what card/ The point is that if you are not vaccinated you will not be let indoors in restaurants or gyms. And that in turn means you are excluding 7% of the black population of New York from dinging indoors.
Seems to me like telling 75% of any racial group they can't join you is pretty dam
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It's not racist, they are free to get the vaccine tomorrow.
I don't think you even need a vaccine. You can also get a negative test from the past 72h. Hopefully, they have to pay for each test otherwise it's a big waste of money.
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You have to check the intent.
Republicans know demographics works against them and are trying to stay in power by any means, including voter suppression and gerrymandering.
Vaccine passports are there for safety and common good. We'd rather not have to use them, but with low vaccination rates the other alternative is to go back to full lockdowns again and this is a big no.
Re:What is the point of ultra-forgable requirement (Score:4, Insightful)
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You're correct, there's no charge for receiving the vaccine, regardless of insurance status.
that is not fully correct (Score:3)
Only 5 people went to the hospital (Score:3)
Because The Washington Post isn't part of my current subscription package, I looked for coverage of the breakthrough outbreak in Provincetown elsewhere and found an article by Christina Maxouris [msn.com]. It states that the outbreak caused 469 positive COVID-19 cases, five hospitalizations, and no deaths. It looks like the vaccine is doing its job of keeping people out of the hospital and keeping the infections from numbering well over a thousand. It has already pushed variants other than delta to practical extincti
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You're barking up the wrong tree. Blame the government for the racial bias in the vaccionation program, and go demonstrate on the hill to demand that they right this totally absolute wrong. But don't hold back the rest of society for that one particular failing.
Also, I should point out that COVID documents are forgeable in the US, but it doesn't have to be that way [europa.eu]. All it takes is a federal mandate.
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"Also am I the only one that finds it a little disturbing just how racist this new plan is? In NYC only 24% of the black and 28% of the Hispanic population has had one shot [ny1.com]."
No, there are other Trumpists like you who would also offer that disingenuous take. "One shot" is not "unvaccinated" and it is well known that people of color are less vaccinated for entirely non-racist reasons.
You know who is even more unvaccinated? Unvaccinated people. 100% of them are unvaccinated. If only we could targ
Tourists and Business Travellers (Score:2)
Travellerz typically need to eat at restaurants... or else they, you know, starve.
Is the New York vaccine app now going to support scanning ever type of vaccination evidence on planet earth? How is that going to work? Where I live, my official vaccine record is a piece of photocopied paper with date and time on it that
no one has even signed.
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The mayor declined to answer questions about Sinovac, so it's a reasonable question.
Looks like the gameplan has changed, folks. (Score:2)
(Account Register Date) - August 2nd, 2021: Post about how much New York City sucks and how you don't want to go to overpriced restaurants filled with uppity cosmopolitan New Yorkers.
August 3rd - ???: Post about how these UNFAIR FREEDOM-DESTROYING public health regulations are making it IMPOSSIBLE for innocent red-blooded Americans like you to enjoy a performance of Hamilton with your wife and ten meth-dealing children.
Stefon (Score:5, Funny)
New York's hottest restaurant is 'Vax' spelled with twelve silent 'x's. Opened by Rudy Giuliani's hair drippings in March 2020 and then immediately closed, this place requires proof of vaccinations for everything: Smallpox, Polio, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Chickenpox, and Hepatitis A-Z... which is that thing you catch when you pour out all of the scrabble tiles on a nightclub bathroom floor and then lick them.
Unnaxed will get fake IDs (Score:3)
No gym, restaurant, or any business will have the expertise to determine if something is real or fake and there is no way to validate even the real ones. A lot of the mass vaccinations places told people not to lose the card as they were not tracking who got what shot when.
What about them that had covid? (Score:2, Insightful)
I will be visiting NYC next month (Score:2)
I will be eating, drinking and going to museums, etc. Which of these passport apps would I use?
Doesn't seem to cover using public transit (Score:2)
Early in the life of the pandemic, one of the major places that Covid spread was public transportation. Hot spots of infection sprung up in urban areas (not just NYC) where people crowded on to buses and trains.
Are they going to ignore that when it comes to requiring vaccinations?
raised warning flag ... (Score:2)
" ... by carrying their vaccination card or scanning and storing it in one of two authorized mobile apps."
So a physical vax card is OK, but to use a scanned copy of it you have to use an "authorized app" ?
what about a printed copy of a scanned vax card?
Why a special app to use an electronic copy of your vax card when a scanned JPG of your card on your smartphone would work just as well?
Why the push to have everyone use apps that the city government controls. I mean what possible gain would NYC have from creating a database of people visiting and living in NYC ... wait a sec...
useless (Score:3)
The incompetents at the CDC chose a card that isn't carry sized, but easy to forge a pass with, plenty of examples online of plausible vaccination batch id numbers.
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It's no more a violation of the 14th amendment than a "no shoes no shirt no service" policy.
"Rule by decree" implies unpopular laws by a dictator. This comes down from an elected mayor and surely the large majority of NYC is in agreement with it.
Just now I noticed your username LOL.
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>"It's no more a violation of the 14th amendment than a "no shoes no shirt no service" policy."
Um, yes it is. If the business decides to do it, that is one thing. When the government REQUIRES the business to do it, that is totally different. Do you not understand the difference?
>"Rule by decree" implies unpopular laws by a dictator."
No it doesn't. It doesn't matter how "popular" it is. And they are not even "laws", they are, indeed, "decrees."
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In fact, here's the complete text of the 14th Amendment. Neither it, not any other provision of the Constitution, did the Supreme Court consider adequate for overturning a mandatory vaccination law in 1905.
Amendment XIV
Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United St
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Your quote is not from Jacobson v. Massachusetts. It is from Buck v Bell 22 years later.
The framework US Constitutional law recognizes the fact that individual liberties sometime conflict with public interests (e.g., national defense). The way it handles this is a two part test: (1) the public interest must be compelling, and (2) the government action bust be "narrowly tailored" (i.e., minimally restrictive) to reasonably secure that interest.
It is true that Buck v Bell cites Jacobson, and it is true that
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If for whatever reason I am medically unable to get vaccinated
Easy to solve, give those people (mostly under 12) a free pass.
or am religiously opposed to it in general or this one in particular,
Your problem. Just like if I am religiously opposed to stopping at red lights. I'm free not to drive on the public roads.
This is perfectly acceptable.
Freedom.
Freedom is about not having to lockdown again. We have a way. It's called a vaccine. Just get it and stop whining.
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If for whatever reason I am medically unable to get vaccinated or am religiously opposed to it in general or this one in particular, then you're discriminating based on medical condition (possibly an ADA violation) or religion (1st Amendment violation).
There are already protections, in place for those groups in the US. This wouldn't be any different.
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But you're not. And suddenly finding a religious reason won't help you. Let's watch the armchair lawyer lose a case that was already lost [ama-assn.org], folks.
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"If the government can force you to ask permission from your phone to do one thing, it can extend that to anything it desires."
Ever had a child in school? Guess what? Vaccinations are required. Not even controversial.
"...whereas vaccination nominally isn't."
Hopefully so.
"discriminating based on medical condition"
Nonsense, anyone with medical reason(s) is always exempt.
"...am religiously opposed..."
Separation of church and state. Your arbitrary, capricious made-up beliefs do not take precedence over the
So you never buy alcohol? (Score:2)
I tell ya...I've been vaxxed for months but I am categorically not patronizing any business that calls me a liar to my face by demanding papers.
Do you also refuse to patronize places that ask for your ID before selling you alcohol?
Must not go out much...
Re: So you never buy alcohol? (Score:2)
Is alcohol a de facto requirement of life the way eating and staying physically fit are?
Maybe it is to some people.
I haven't had a drink since that glass of champagne I had for my birthday last year. And you know what? If I skip my champagne this year, it's no skin off my back.
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"...we generally don't have rule by decree here."
Local governments commonly have a city manager who does just that. Hell, the federal government largely operates that way too. We have an executive branch that rules largely by decree. It's amazing how ignorant people can actually be. We generally "have rule" entirely "by decree here" in reality.
"Those who give up liberty for the promise of security end up with neither."
Nice masturbatory quote, totally irrelevant. There is neither any "promise of securit
Re: 14 Amendment violation (Score:2)
Fascists, dictators, and even petty tyrants rarely come to power promising fire and brimstone. They usually come bearing promises of prosperity and more common good.
Critical thinking requires evaluating each such proposal on its own merits and weighing the nominal benefits against future moral hazards and potential for abuse as well as the immediate costs.
This is why we have a categorical ban on government religion and government censorship. The first round or two might be benign or even beneficial, but it
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Re:So... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So... (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, you don't have to show your "papers" to the government, but to the restaurant staff.
I am not too worried about waitresses abusing their vast powers.
If you are unvaccinated, you can still use the drive-up window or have your food delivered.
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The government is forcing restaurants and gyms to verify your vaccination status for them?
Really? Show me where the restaurants are to report your name and vaccination status to the .gov?
It's "As a matter of public health, you may not admit unvaccinated people to your restaurant." Just like a bar must turn away people under 21. They don't report them to the .gov.
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I don't have a problem with private businesses requiring proof of vaccination. And I certainly don't have a problem with the vaccines themselves. I've got both doses of the Pfizer vaccine by choice (I work from home permanently and am under no compulsion by my employer or by my government).
Where I start to question things is when the government begins mandating vaccines. Medical autonomy and confidentiality is an important right in a free society.
I hear your argument that we are in the middle of a pandemi
Re:So... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So... (Score:5, Interesting)
There's all kinds of limitations on liberty for the common good. Did you know that in order to drive a car on public streets, you have to have papers and the government can ask for you to show them. Even worse, if you drink certain beverages while driving, the government can throw you in jail. Plus, if you look young, you have to show papers to purchase those beverages.
If you think that's bad, the government can lock you up for possessing certain plants.
Re:So... (Score:4, Informative)
Where I start to question things is when the government begins mandating vaccines.
Why now? Outside of the context of the ongoing pandemic, state laws already require vaccinations for students in public or private k-12, college, and childcare facilities. You've always been apposed to tetanus shots and I just haven't had the opportunity to know you very long? If you say so, I'll take your word for it. That would at least be ideologically consistent, but why do I have a sneaking suspicion you've had the wonderfully awesome timing to develop these principles in the middle of a pandemic?
Here's Texas and Florida's requirements, for example.
https://www.dshs.texas.gov/imm... [texas.gov]
http://www.floridahealth.gov/p... [floridahealth.gov]
Please forgive my skepticism, I don't know you, but I've seen too many people fluidly shift between excuses - anti-government, the emergency approval, to something specific about this vaccine(s!!!). Government mandated vaccines are not new. They will be fully approved, and nevertheless you are staring directly at a really really huge trial, what are you waiting for? And there is no Vaccine, there are several COVID vaccines, using different methods.
Your ONLY hope to be taken seriously is if you convince us you ALWAYS were against all government mandated vaccines. And no, we don't agree there. Now I know you types are out there, but statistically, I'm probably not talking to one. But please tell me, what's your deal.
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That makes NO sense.
As a vaccinated person, I"m not afraid of un-vaccinated people.
I don't need the restaurant/gym to protect me from them.
Re:So... (Score:5, Insightful)
We remember the Nazis not because they demanded papers from citizens but because they engaged in genocidal campaigns to murder Jews, Roma, and other groups.
Maybe a better comparison is the government that caused the death of millions.
Great Chinese Famine [wikipedia.org]
This is why we almost never use coercion to force medical treatments on people.
Let's see, notwithstanding all the anti-vax myths and all the pro-vax advertising...
1. Invent a new biotechnology, generally untested in humans.
2. Force everyone to have it.
3. What could possibly go wrong?
Point 3 is why it is immoral to coerce people to have it, both in principle and in practice.
That much should be plain and obvious, even before we get to the variety of highly qualified experts who are saying that there's some huge problems with what the governments are doing, and that we're facing risks of a worse disaster than the virus itself.
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That much should be plain and obvious, even before we get to the variety of highly qualified experts who are saying that there's some huge problems with what the governments are doing, and that we're facing risks of a worse disaster than the virus itself.
Yeah, those "highly qualified experts" are basically non-existent. We understand the underlying biology of vaccines really well. Vaccines do sometimes have side-effects, but they are almost universally in the first two or three months, because after that, there's no more relevant proteins in the body to cause any issues. There has literally never been an
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"Imagine how tiresome we find the comparisons when we just want people to have actual ID to vote..."
Imagine why you "just want people to have actual ID to vote", as though there were some equivalence here.
Re:So... (Score:5, Insightful)
That's cool. Imagine how tiresome we find the comparisons when we just want people to have actual ID to vote
We can reasonably discuss whether ID requirements make sense. The primary objection to them is not ID rules by themselves, but ID rules which are done along with making it deliberately hard to get IDs, or ruling out IDs of types frequently used by specific groups. For example, Texas in their voter ID requirement allowed handgun licenses but not student IDs. https://newrepublic.com/article/119900/texas-voter-id-allows-handgun-licenses-not-student-ids [newrepublic.com]. This makes no sense from a voting security standpoint, but makes a lot of sense if this was to keep specific demographics from voting as much. Similarly, Alabama required very strict ID rules, and closed down DMV locations in predominantly black areas. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/10/alabama-closes-dmvs-in-majority-of-black-belt-counties-passed-voter-id-law-in-2011.html [slate.com]. They did bring black those locations after there was federal intervention and a lot of attention https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/12/16767426/alabama-voter-suppression-senate-moore-jones [vox.com], but the pattern was pretty clear. Now, to be clear, none of this makes people pushing for ID laws Nazis either. Voter suppression is bad, but it isn't really Nazi-level bad, and I find such Nazi comparisons also pretty tiring.
, or when we protest a clearly stolen election.
To be blunt, if you think the 2020 election was "clearly stolen" then you are so far divorced from reality, that further discussion is unlikely to be successful. At this point, we've had over 80 post election lawsuits law by people claiming the election was stolen, and many of those were in cases where the judges were themselves appointed by Trump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-election_lawsuits_related_to_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election [wikipedia.org].. Still doesn't necessarily make one a Nazi though; having a deeply wrong belief doesn't make you a Nazi.
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That’s easy. Handgun licenses are more secure than Student ID cards. Additionally, they show official state of residency. I attended school in a state halfway across the country - Texas. However, I voted in the state of my primary residence, rather than where my dorm room was located.
I am now permanently in that same state, and have never voted in a Texas election. However, in many college towns there are recruitment efforts by Leftists to get “out of state“ students to register, in an att
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The Netherlands has a QR system that contains initials and month/day of birth. In principle that's enough to validate against a photo ID. To use someone else's ID you'd need to find someone sharing initials and birthday.
One of the (multiple) flaws of the system turned out to be that not all nightclubs were willing to cross check those IDs because it takes too much time for the number of people hired to do the check. Someone running a venue that requires a QR code has to pay staff to slow down the customers
Re:So... (Score:5, Interesting)
So you're pointing out the slippery slope towards a Nazi-like state in the US.
How about the TSA's No Fly List [wikipedia.org] that's been in force in the US for almost 20 years now? Does that worry you at all? The poor suckers whose names ended up on that list can't even show a piece of paper to go through at the airport, or appeal to have their name stricken off the list.
Get your priorities straight man. The police state is already there. It's just that it hasn't affected you yet.
Re:So... (Score:5, Insightful)
How about kids requiring vaccinations to attend school? Literally the exact same thing and has existed without controversy longer than most /.ers have been alive.
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Nope. "Prove you are not a dirty plague-spreader, please". That is a world of difference. (Yes, I know vaccinated people can still transmit. But the probability of them being infected in the first place is much, much lower and that is what counts.)
Those that refuse to recognize reality will always get less from life. This is just one example.
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You've never heard of quarantines before? This is the lite version of a massive quarantine, not a takeover of your rights to infect your neighbors.
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your rights to infect your neighbors.
In California it is basically legal to spread HIV; that precedent alone would be enough to overturn any mandates in CA. https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/b... [shouselaw.com]
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No, it just moves it from felony to misdemeanor. Because HIV is no longer a death sentence like it used to be. You can also sue.
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Constant that to a predominant example of ICE racial profiling. In Pennsylvania they entered a factory without appropriate warrant. They lined up all the Hispanic looking people and demanded papers, assuming, without probable cause, they were undocumented, guilty until proven innocent. All the white people were let go and just asked if they knew of any Hispanic people that were missed. This is Nazi papers please.
There may be some systemic racism that prevents some people from getting a vaccine. Likewise, there may be some systemic racism that prevents some people from getting a state ID to fly or to vote. Many states have decided that the later is not sufficient to counter necessary security. In this case I think given the surge in infection, the stress on the supply of hospital beds, and the like, this is a reasonable precaution, like demanding ID to fly after 9/11. Hopefully as we reach a high rate of vaccination such restrictions will go away. I do,however, anticipate that some activities, like cruises, will require proof of vaccine for the foreseeable future.
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"Papers, please?" /Nazi
It's like a drivers license my sovereign citizen - Drivers licenses, marriage and birth certificates? All are infringements and symbols of repression. Laws and regulations are only for Nasties
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Here is the major disease: Experts Warn Of New 'Cuomo' Variant That Is Dangerous To Young Women, Fatal To Elderly
https://babylonbee.com/news/ex... [babylonbee.com]
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> You'll dox yourself to enter any building
Yes, this is called showing ID.
And yes in cities with millions of people even a medium sized apartment building might have a security guard posted asking visitors to identify themselves. Especially if very wealthy people live there.
Don't worry. People in rural areas won't give a fuck as usual.
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Do you have a citation on the vaccination rates by political affiliation? I have seen stats [kff.org] by ethnic group, which show that Blacks and Hispanics have considerably lower vaccination rates than Whites.
I'd say the most compelling evidence is it maximizes the sense of moral superiority they receive.
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It's 2021. You'll dox yourself to enter any building, and you'll be happy about it.
The step from here to social credit scores is absolutely minuscule. And since vaccinations are strongly correlated with political affiliation anyway, it's a de facto CCP social credit score already.
Despite the popular narrative around here, plenty of Democrats are unvaccinated. In NYC school employees are only at 60%. [thecity.nyc] Not exactly your Trump Base. Other public employees in the city are lower.
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It's a good thing Oxygen passes right through masks then isn't it?
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It's a good thing Oxygen passes right through masks then isn't it?
Oxygen passes through masks with ease, but not so much through Covid patients.
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on the contrary, this is to keep them open, and avoid another lockdown.
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No. That is a separate issue.
There's racism in elections too. Many states use disgusting tricks to prevent black and latino people from voting. Yet nobody is thinking of canceling elections over this.
Racial bias needs to be adressed, but it's not a reason to stop doing what needs to be done.
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The measurable response to voter ID laws is lower turnout among Blacks and no change to the tiny percentage of in-person voter fraud.
The measurable response to people not getting vaccines is infections, hospitalizations, and dead bodies.
That's why people view them differently.