CDC: Most COVID-19 Cases In New York City In March Traced To Europe (upi.com) 161
schwit1 shares a report from UPI: Up to 75% of the coronavirus strains circulating in New York City in early March shared genetic similarities with those seen in Europe and other areas of North America, according to an analysis published Thursday by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The findings are significant, given that they are based on samples of the new coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, collected from patients at five hospitals in the city selected intentionally because "of their high use" by people who are "self-identified Chinese speakers," the agency researchers said. "In retrospect, perhaps Trump should have shut down flights from Europe when he shut them down from China, but you can imagine the reaction if he had done so," adds Slashdot reader schwit1. Trump did restrict travel from Europe to the U.S. in early March, but at that point the virus was already spreading rapidly across the country.
What? (Score:2)
"In retrospect, perhaps Trump should have shut down flights from Europe when he shut them down from China, but you can imagine the reaction if he had done so," adds Slashdot reader schwit1. Trump did restrict travel from Europe to the U.S. in early March, but at that point the virus was already spreading rapidly across the country.
He should have shut all flights down, international and domestic but he was afraid of the airlines going under. It doesn't matter if we got it originally from China, Europe, Can
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The man wants to send little snot filled brats to school to roll in dirt with each other and fingerpaint,
They go back to school. Or their parents are about ready to take little Hansel and Gretel for a walk out into the woods.
"...imagine the reaction..." (Score:3)
His obsession with how others perceive him is why he isn't an effective leader.
As a "European"... (Score:2)
I would habe no problem with you shutting down flights from my continent to yours, if we're all sick over here.
What's wrong with that?
You think we will cry foul for not being allowed to out you guys in danger?
AFAIK we still have travel restrictions for North Americans over here in Germany, so ...
Re: As a "European"... (Score:2)
s/have/have/
s/out/put/
s/Slashcode/sanity/
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European leaders were outraged when the US closed their borders. Of course said EU leaders did eventually follow the US' example and closed their own borders a bit later.
It's just the usual circus: Trump closes borders, his political rivals complain. Fast forward a couple of months and now the complaint is he didn't close them quickly enough.
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European leaders were outraged
Yep, that's their job. It's called international politics. China's leaders were also outraged. Doesn't doesn't make it any less of a good idea and that doesn't make it any less of a sensible and understood policy from the people who are affected.
I can't believe I agree with BAReFO0t, the most moronic poster on Slashdot, but yes absolutely if I lived in a hotspot I would actively criticise your country for not reducing travel.
Of course said EU leaders did eventually follow the US' example and closed their own borders a bit later.
Did the USA ever close it's borders? Frankly I don't know of any country which did.
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The EU banned travel to and from China before the USA did.
As far as I can tell only Italy banned travel from China at the same time or a couple of days before the US (around January 31st). Europe as a whole didn't close its borders until mid march.
Counts (Score:2)
It was too late (Score:2)
I have no problem with the any country closing its borders on us if one have cases and the other doesn't. But as soon as the virus spreads locally, closing borders becomes useless unless it is backed by strong local measures such as a lockdown and/or strong contact tracing + testing.
So when the US announced to closing of their borders for European citizens (which I am), my first reaction was "why now?" The virus was already spreading uncontrolled in the US, even if in relatively small numbers, it was too la
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Umm... wow. The U.S. is doing the worst in handling the virus in the developed world, by a couple of orders of magnitude recently. And your response is to curse the people advocating for effective countermeasures.
Your /. handle is very well chosen.
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To be fair here, the USA is one of the most populated countries in the developed world, so all other things being equal, you'd expect it to be among the countries with the most cases.
The only two countries in the world more populated than the USA have governments that are able to enforce far more draconian measures to contain the spread of the virus than anything that the USA has ever seen or would even be able to legally implement.
The US administration dropped the ball by not taking the virus seriousl
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Well, yes. And no. The problem is to get a pandemic under control, you have to get the numbers low enough that you can do full contact tracing. That requires really low numbers of new cases, because contact tracing is both a lot of effort and has to be done fast. The US never got near that. At least enough people and local government instances did take this thing serious after a while to have prevented the really big catastrophe initially. But the current growth numbers do not look good at all and remember
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Technically not true... the US had its shot, but it didn't take it when the opportunity was there.
If the US administration had taken some early initiative and started ramping up wide-scale testing and contact tracing as soon as they heard about it in the first week of the new year, requiring self-quarantine practices for people waiting for test results to stop it from spreading before the first known case in the USA would even show up, instead of waiting until long after the
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It would be extremely hard for the US to have stopped this via testing and contact tracing - probably basically impossible. The US did have contact tracing and testing really early on, but it was focused on symptomatic people from China because all the available evidence was that asymptomatic spread wasn't a thing and China was the country with the big outbreak. Back in mid-February when the US would've needed to stop this spreading from Europe, Italy - which was the epicenter of the European outbreak - was
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No. To get control of the situation you need to stop travel so contact tracing has a chance. That was a federal failure then as well as today.
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In particular, the US needed to stop travel from Italy at the point when they were reporting two or three cases total - one couple who'd travelled from China shortly before being diagnosed and a quarantined Wuhan repatriate - after which they reported zero new cases for about a fortnight. I cannot overstate just how ridiculously impossible it would've been to justify the kind of travel restrictions necessary to give contact tracing a chance of succeeding in the US. There is also absolutely no doubt that mos
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Here you can find for a example a world map with the estimated new cases per 100k people per day. For the US it is currently 35.4 infections per day per 100k people. European countries mostly range from 1 to 8.
https://covid19.healthdata.org... [healthdata.org]
Re: The only good Republican (Score:2)
No, he's lashing out at the folks that politicized every action, questioned every motive, challenged every decision, and now, after the dust has settled, their selective memory allows them to 'forget' how they fought against things that in retrospect were in fact the right thing to do.
For example, at the time Trump was a racist xenophobe for halting travel from China, now the same critics say he should have done it sooner. Same for European travel, at the time it was racist and ignorant, now it was too litt
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Please, elaborate. By what measure(s) is the US "the worst" in the developed world?
this one: https://outbreak.info/epidemio... [outbreak.info]
you can enter other countries into the input box to compare. have fun.
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I think the GP's point is that this was mostly caused by some bad local decisions made in the New York/New Jersey area, and some areas in California. The federal government doesn't actually have the power to shut down local establishments, mandate masks or other PPE, etc, that power is reserved to the states themselves.
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NY Metro screwed up badly for sure at the outset; action was needed a week earlier and that was easy to see at the time.
Constitutionally I don’t know how a better action could have been taken. What was done was miserable, half-hearted, and obviously ineffective.
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NY Metro screwed up badly for sure at the outset; action was needed a week earlier and that was easy to see at the time.
Constitutionally I don’t know how a better action could have been taken. What was done was miserable, half-hearted, and obviously ineffective.
It's interesting you ask that. I've also been noticing that everybody keeps saying Trump had no powers, so I just did a Google search. it turns out he does have the power of quarantine [cdc.gov], despite what everyone says and could have limited travel out of infected states, stopping people form NY going out and infecting Florida and other places.
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"It's interesting you ask that. I've also been noticing that everybody keeps saying Trump had no powers, so I just did a Google search. it turns out he does have the power of quarantine [cdc.gov], despite what everyone says and could have limited travel out of infected states, stopping people form NY going out and infecting Florida and other places."
I've had this discussion before -- and it's not that simple.
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/02... [npr.org]
"It is unclear, absent congressional approval or every state in the
The Fact is... (Score:2)
...That to have completely prevented this, the actions required would have been so drastic, they would have approached the levels of a Communist Dictatorship actions.
If Trump had taken those actions, there would have been riots.
Those actions would have likely been overruled in court.
And in the end, what is the point? The virus is here forever now. While other nations would have worked their way through it with hundreds of thousands getting sick and recovering, etc. the US would be isolated with no one havin
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...That to have completely prevented this, the actions required would have been so drastic, they would have approached the levels of a Communist Dictatorship actions.
Democracies often take actions which are far beyond many dictatorships. The only country in the world to have used a nuclear bomb is the United States of America. The differences between a civilised democracy and a dictatorships are a) due process has to be gone through before actions and b) the actions are carried out by representatives of the people
If Trump had taken those actions, there would have been riots.
Those actions would have likely been overruled in court.
Your lack of faith in the American people and the rule of law in the states is interesting. I believe that, if there was a clear explanation, a clear progra
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I've had this discussion before -- and it's not that simple.
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/02... [npr.org]
"It is unclear, absent congressional approval or every state in the union collectively agreeing to it, how any president would have the authority to impose a federal or national quarantine," Moss says."
"The federal law on this, he says, "is clearly aimed at individuals or specifically identified groups, not the entire country writ large."
Thanks, I read the NPR article and I'll have a look around in more detail. I think though, it doesn't matter in a sense. Clearly he doesn't have the ability to do "stay at home orders", however there's plenty he can do and even the NPR article notes quarantine and travel limitation. Trump should have tried anyway requesting the support of the governors and maybe only acting between states where both states agreed, or only controlling entry into states that cooperated. I can't see how a governor from one
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I think the GP's point is that this was mostly caused by some bad local decisions made in the New York/New Jersey area, and some areas in California. The federal government doesn't actually have the power to shut down local establishments, mandate masks or other PPE, etc, that power is reserved to the states themselves.
If Trump was standing up there saying "governors, please shut down" and the governors were ignoring him, this argument might make sense. He didn't even try that. Even now, even in the US, the majority of the shutdown is caused by people voluntarily avoiding going to work, voluntarily avoiding shops and so on. Trump had one clear power - set up a full on maximal CDC based track and trace program and one clear action he could do - ask all the governors to come together and agree to work together to limit
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"what kind of democracy are you?"
The kind that is a Republic? Say the pledge. Stop at the part that says "...and to the Republic for which it stands".
We have some democratic principles but clearly at the federal level, we were NOT designed to be a democracy.
Is the president elected democratically? No. We have 50 separate elections and each state picks who they want for president -- and have a say weighted roughly by population.
Are federal judges elected democratically? No. They are appointed by the E
Bravo! (Score:2)
++10000 Mod points
Clearly you are one of the few here who paid attention in Gov 101.
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So you are like most other representative democracies, which is what is meant by democracy now.
I'm in a Constitutional Monarchy and it is quite similar to what you said. People vote for a representative, and that is it. The Prime Minister is whoever Parliament agrees on, they might not have even been elected to Parliament, though they better arrange to get elected as they need to be in Parliament to function. Senate is appointed, used to be for life, now until 75. Same with Judges.
At the end of the day, the
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Don't get hung up on the 18th century idea of democracy as the meaning has evolved.
It doesn't matter what liberal weenies at Miriam-Webster claim democracy means this month. Whatever you call it, there's still a set of constitutionally defined structures and limits on Federal power that don't change just because dictionary does.
If American's really wanted to see changes in the structure of the country in the manner you suggest, well they'd better get to calling a Constitutional Convention to shake things up. At the very least prevail (as if it makes any difference) on their Congression
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FL is currently much worse than NY ever was, partly from being a bunch of dumb-asses, but mostly behind their governor sucking up to Trump.
There are a lot of questionable numbers coming out of Florida. Just yesterday I read an article about how a guy who was killed riding his motorcycle was classified as a Covid death. And another article recently about how they accidentally reported that 98% of people tested had Covid when the number was maybe 5%. It's insane.
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Re: Who is the worst, again? (Score:2)
The federal government doesn't have the power to do somethings but they can provide guidelines or suggestions.
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The federal government doesn't actually have the power to shut down local establishments, mandate masks or other PPE, etc, that power is reserved to the states themselves.
For whatever reason Europeans will never understand this detail about government in the US, even though it's basically the same as the EU. The USA barely even qualifies as a proper nation state, really, at least in the way most people (and especially non-Americans) are used to thinking about them.
Oh well, let's finish this thread about America Bad. Ho hum.
Re:Who is the worst, again? (Score:4, Insightful)
Daily new cases are simply due to our suspicion of government and free-wheeling lifestyle. Once you start looking at deaths, superiority of the US shows. Nation-wide the case-fatality rate, for example, is under 4% already — although much higher in a few States (mostly Democrat-dominated ones). But in Belgium that rate [worldometers.info] is over 15%! 9.24% in Spain (same as in Connecticut — the worst of American States). 17.26% in France [worldometers.info]!
Have fun indeed...
you cannot compare death rate (Score:5, Insightful)
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The stringent measures that countries like Belgium, Germany, France, Spain etc took successfully controlled the outbreak amongst those least at risk whilst almost completely failing to stop it from spreading to those it was deadliest to. This is almost certainly not just the result of the initial outbreak hitting the oldest first - enough countries have been hit to demonstrate that it spreads really well amongst young people, enough so that they're often the first hit and the old people only start dying lat
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The superiority shows?
https://ourworldindata.org/gra... [ourworldindata.org]
The US is one of the few countries that passed the peak a long time ago but the death rate is NOT approaching zero. There even seems to be a slight uptick as of late.
From this, it seems like everyones strategies/measures worked (inluding Swedens) but the US is about to screw it up (perhaps, it is a bit early to tell).
The absolute size of the peak should not be taken too seriously since the deaths are reported in different ways in different countries. Be
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I would expect that to be the case. Comparing the death rate in the USA after a global policy of social distancing to Spain, France, Belgium (and you forget Italy) which were the 4 first countries in the west to actually get hit at a time where no one even knew what a curve was or why it needed to be flat is quite nonsensical.
Mind you comparing anything is nonsensical. The reporting figures between countries varies so greatly to the point of absurdity that drawing any comparison about "superiority" is just
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Unless it makes USA in general — and Trump in particular — look bad, right?
Trump doesn't need to compare to anyone to look bad. With all the benefit of hindsight and advanced notice of what was happening as seen in Belgium, France, Italy and Spain your government dismissed it as "just a flu" and it's truly sad to see so many Americans die completely avoidable deaths.
But, for some reason, you're telling me this, instead of the bozos claiming, "US is the worst". By your logic, that claim [slashdot.org] is nonsensical
No. Because as said, the US's response being basically the worst in the west is born out of internal figures without every needing to compare to another country.
Because it is that rate, that shows the superiority of government effectiveness and healthcare system.
It's a number that is useful only within a country, and o
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In February the world thought COVID-19 was a regional thing, that it could be contained and kept out of entire continents. Or at least people pretended to believe that.
In March the illusion broke, when Italy was overwhelmed in a week, and before France had time to react, the epidemic was so widespread that their health system was on the brink of collapse as well. At that time, they certainly did not test anyone who was not already hospitalised. That's the reason why the case-fatality rate is so high for F
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Citations? What's "current"?
If I had a more precise number to quote I would have done so instead giving a very rough estimate, but it wasn't worth the effort find one. But you go ahead and dig up a precise number if it's important to you. The point I was making was that the French double-digit percentages are historical; there were a lot a deaths and very little testing in March.
3.77% is our overall CFR and it is 4.5 times lower, than France's — for all the supposed inferiority of US healthcare and system of government.
The point is that the overall CFR is a terrible measure that you should not be using for anything. It depends on the testing rate, and the testing rate has
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"...although much higher in a few States (mostly Democrat-dominated ones)..."
No doubt you have an explanation for this...
"Daily new cases are simply due to our suspicion of government and free-wheeling lifestyle."
That makes complete sense. The virus dislikes Democrats and suspicion of government. Good thing those go together, right?
"Once you start looking at deaths, superiority of the US shows. "
Yes, the US is superior at generating deaths due to the virus.
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Why do you single out countries which were hit first, before the WHO even gave recommendations and before the public even knew what flattening the curve meant let alone anyone had social distancing rules in place?
Do you purposely single out countries who lacked good information simply to make the USA's horrendous policy despite good information look better? In terms of deaths per 1M population the USA ranks up among the worst in the west.
Also my post here isn't a counter argument to USA policy because I'm m
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The countries with the worst death rates are paradoxically the ones with the best medical care which has kept a bunch of old people alive who would have died without advanced medical care. People who have survived strokes, heart attacks, cancer. People with bad chronic diseases who need advanced medical care to stay alive. These are the people dying from the virus.
Look at the AC's list of worst nations by death rate, all countries with a large proportion of seniors who would have already been dead in a more
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How about the daily new deaths? "Democrat dominated" states like Texas or Florida have as many deaths every day as the whole EU with its 446 millions.
That means the USA will overtake France in two weeks and Spain by November.
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Why can't we sort by per capita? It only allows sorting by magnitude of total cases/deaths which puts the USA at the top - so uninformed readers will assume that this is the country performing the worse.
Coronavirus (COVID-19) deaths worldwide per one million population as of July 17, 2020, by country [statista.com]
This can be sorted.
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10,000 people die every day in the US of causes we don't give a shit about - auto collisions (nobody says we need to make licensing laws stricter or build more public transit), heart disease (nobody says we need to make our food healthier), lung disease (nobody says we need to cut air pollution, even though pollution is visible to the naked eye in some large cities).
Actually, there *are* people saying these things, but they get ignored/drowned out by corporate messaging.
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Arizona was hit particularly bad in a second wave, though it turns out that this was largely people from nearby California and some other states who suddenly decided to flock over to the club scene here because it was open where their home state wasn't. Though it doesn't help that governor Ducey has made some rather piss poor policy decisions that even his own supporters have called him out on.
What 2nd wave? (Score:3)
There is no 2nd wave!!! WTF? We are still in the 1st one!
This country is doomed...
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Yup. Calling the current situation a second wave is woefully uninformed.
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The meaning of second wave has shifted. In the beginning it referred to the spanish flu where a variant of the first wave proved to be more deadly. Now it is used whenever the virus surges after it has been suppressed for a while.
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The meaning of second wave has shifted. In the beginning it referred to the spanish flu where a variant of the first wave proved to be more deadly. Now it is used whenever the virus surges after it has been suppressed for a while.
By either meaning the US is still in the first wave. It was never suppressed. The number of daily new cases did decline a little bit, from about 35K to about 25K, for a little while, about a month, but a 30% decline isn't "suppression".
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You could say that although 'never suppressed' is overstating things. If you start looking per state then there are several scenarios. in New York and Massachusetts it is now suppressed and not resurging(yet). In other places the number of cases has had earlier peaks and now there is a fast growth. In others the growth had been dampened for a long time and now it accelerated. Illinois for instance had a bad peak in may which was brought mostly undercontrol, and it has a new increase now. Florida had a small
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Please, elaborate. By what measure(s) is the US "the worst" in the developed world?
You have not noticed yet? Don't worry, you will find out. Pandemics care not one bit about ignorance, they get you just the same.
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and Democrat-ruled States look especially bad...
You're an idiot. This is a medical diagnosis at this point. Probably terminal.
Democrat-led states got hit first, and it took a while to get the outbreak under control. Back when testing was scarce and PPEs were running low. Yet Democrats persevered and managed to control the infection.
Now the disease got into stupid states (i.e. controlled by Republicans) and the rates there are skyrocketing: https://www.wsj.com/articles/c... [wsj.com] - there's a helpful infographic there. The highest number of new cases per cap
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
A lie. Florida, for example, had the first patient on March 1st. Connecticut — on March 8th.
No. It was the first confirmed symptomatic patient. By that time New York had more than 10000 infectious carriers (estimated by modelling). By the time lockdowns were announced, NY was locked into at least several hundred thousand infections.
It does not explain the case-fatality rate (CFR). You know, the ratio of total deaths to the total cases. That figure for the entire US today is under 4%, but for Connecticut it is 9.19%. Can you explain, why, idiot?
Dude, you should learn some logic. I recommend watching educational videos for 3-year olds (Trump-level, in other words). Doctors now have remdesivir and the protocols have been improved immensely (ventilators are replaced with prone position, steroids for inflammation
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Ah, "estimated by modeling"... Was it the same modelling, that predicted a dire shortage of ventilators [nytimes.com]?
Nope, a simple retro model given the number of infections later. The kind you can do with a pen and paper.
So, no facts, no citations — just a boatload of condescending attitude.
The Bible has a saying about this: "throw pearl before swine". Why should I bother, in other words?
You sure would like that, but what if it does not happen? What if, a month from now, Florida's CFR remains under 2% (it is currently at 1.47%), but Connecticut stays above 8% (it is currently at 9.18%)?
CT has been having less than 100 cases a day on average, so the sample size is simply unrepresentative and will be dominated by single events. The average time to death is about 18 days, so just as expected it's rising right now in FL. It's been less than 40 per day 2 weeks ago and now it's up to 130.
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Does not address anything I said, but Ok, asshole.
You said anything? I haven't seen anything coherent from you so far, only some weird out-of-context ramblings about Connecticut or some such.
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A lie. Florida, for example, had the first patient on March 1st. Connecticut — on March 8th.
Florida had a patient on March 1st. What you're missing is that Florida's cases were from random people flying in from up north, whereas Connecticut's cases were from random people driving around. Florida got a few random cases here and there, and in spite of not getting very many initial cases at all, still managed to have a higher daily case count than Connecticut nearly every day since the start of the pandemic, with the exception of about three or four really bad days up north.
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Your link points to report from March 2, 2020.
Surgeon General, July 12, 2020: We learned more. [cbsnews.com]
That almost looks like our understanding of the virus evolved since beginning March. Don't you think?
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And your proof of this? Forget proof, any evidence?..
Sure. Here you go. [miamiherald.com]. To be fair, it's not just Republican-run states; California and New York are also guilty. But Republican-run states are the only ones I've heard about that actually changed from reporting probable cases to not reporting them. (I can't remember which state or states that did that — only that there was an intentional change by at least one state a couple of months back.)
Also, the state of Florida notably forced its medical examiners to stop independently reporting coronavirus num
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It does not explain the case-fatality rate (CFR). You know, the ratio of total deaths to the total cases.
I don't understand why this number is significant. Why choose this number over the many other numbers available?
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Look Squirrels! Actually the rest of the world is looking on with interest to see if the anti public health measure red states are about to turn into Brazil. Maybe the paranoid blue state Governor Cuomo with his strong science based reaction to the pandemic is going to turn out to be right in the end. I certainly wish the UK was following his re-opening plan https://forward.ny.gov/metrics... [ny.gov] That is the competent America I admire.
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"Florida, for example, had the first patient on March 1st. Connecticut — on March 8th."
Look who's lying. Who knows where the "first" case was, we can only know where the first positive tests were. That's all irrelevant, of course, as you are merely trying to define the argument to push your tribalist perspective.
The fact is that big population centers are at greater risk and big population centers have more progressive political views. It would be expected that more democratic areas, "democrat-rul
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Please, elaborate. By what measure(s) is the US "the worst" in the developed world?
And which part of the US are you talking about? Because figures wary widely between different States of the Union [gab.com] — and Democrat-ruled States look especially bad...
Populous states will have lots of cases. However, most of the current Corona hotspots are in Republican governed states:
https://www.nytimes.com/intera... [nytimes.com]
So in other words the virus is currently spreading like wildfire in the areas of the US that are in the most denial about preventative measures. This is not surprising since these states are the ones who have opened up and are encouraging people to gather in large numbers without taking precautions. These are also the states that are causing new clusters
Re:Who is the worst, again? (Score:5, Insightful)
The Democrat states are also the nexus of the rioting and the cities which they've controlled for a century (or more) are the places where they decry systemic racism, poor policing (by the forces that THEY have created and controlled), poor economic outcomes for minorities (again due to their own policies), etc. But yet, it's somehow all the bad orange man's fault.
What a completely delusional echo chamber you've got there.
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You sound super well informed. Without a doubt a true history connoisseur.
All states "are the places where they decry systemic racism, poor policing ... [and] poor economic outcomes for minorities". It's not just "democrat states" controlled "for a century", as if that even existed.
Also, no one claims that systemic racism is "all the bad orange man's fault", that's just s straw man of dishonest tribalists like you. Trump exploits systemic racism, he didn't create it. He would have if he could, without a
Re:Who is the worst, again? (Score:4, Informative)
... and Democrat-ruled States look especially bad...
The problem states early on were those which get a lot of international travel, mainly on the west and east coasts.
But now, states like
New York [jhu.edu] are doing much better (although still not California [jhu.edu]). Now the problem has moved onto largely Republican states which decided to reopen quickly, or never closed down at all - like
Texas [jhu.edu], Florida [jhu.edu], Georgia [jhu.edu], Idaho [jhu.edu].
But hey, just keep pretending this is a Democratic problem and that the hospitals are mostly empty [cdc.gov].
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"Democrat-ruled"
Please, elaborate. By what measure(s) are what states that "look especially bad" "democrat-ruled"?
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Here is the table [imgur.com], updated today, sorted by the case-fatality rate (CFR): Total Deaths over the Total Cases.
Nice. So you managed to find one misleading statistic where it shows Democrat-led states are doing worse right now. How very smart of you.
Here's the thing though, nobody who understands epidemiology calculates CFR the way you do. The total cases measures everyone who's currently infected. Total deaths measures final outcomes of people who were infected anywhere from a few weeks to over a month ago. Those numbers are looking at different things at different points in time. Only an idiot would divide one by t
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Although not normalized, I think the graphs on worldometers.info are expressive enough:
US [worldometers.info]
Germany [worldometers.info]
France [worldometers.info]
Sweden [worldometers.info]
Belgium [worldometers.info]
Spain [worldometers.info]
UK [worldometers.info]
Italy [worldometers.info]
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2020-06-18 - 2020-07-18
country___population_deaths__ratio
USA________331002651__22303__0.00006738
Sweden______10099265____680__0.00006733
UK__________67886011___2945__0.00004338
Spain_______46754778___1284__0.00002746
Italy_______60461826____623__0.00001030
Belgium_____11589623____108__0.00000932
France______65273511____605__0.00000927
Germany_____83783942____253__0.00000302
1 [worldometers.info] 2 [ourworldindata.org]
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How do you explain other countries that don't have monarchs that did so much better? Is every other country in the world run by a monarch?
Local response is up to the governors — and even mayors
I wasn't aware that pandemic control was a state level thing. When was that decided? And why would it make sense to have states or municiplaties deal with infectious disease, since
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You just contradicted yourself. The masks as issue at the time were not the "respirator style masks" and the CDC wasn't advising hospitals not to use PPE. Also, the virus was entirely new. Yes, it was a mistake and seems like a poor one to make, but there's no evidence that the CDC was lying.
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Yes, and that's why the "national government" can't fight wars..."we don't have a monarch" and the "national government" can't do much. Good think you got that bogus "democrat-ruled" chart in there though.
Did the "national government" do "all that it could" when it decided not to order urgently needed supplies, something it definitely could do? Isn't the very existence of the CDC evidence that the "national government" can do far more that you suggest it can?
How is the CDC "lying to us" not the fault of t
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He linked to that article because it contains inflammatory bullshit, stuff that he loves because it speaks to his biases. It makes no claim for anything the CDC did or under what context. It also suggested that health care workers lied. the public for selfish reasons.
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I'm not sure if this post is serious or sarcastic. It's a sad commentary on modern culture that this comment could even be considered as serious.
At any rate, I'm confident that relatively few people "what to BE" Donald Trump, and those that do are absolutely part of the problem.
Also, what kind of cretin thinks that the measure of POTUS success is "social media" popularity? Do you even realize that his social media presence is illegal to begin with?
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More cynical than sarcastic. It's how I think other people feel.
At any rate, I'm confident that relatively few people "what to BE" Donald Trump, and those that do are absolutely part of the problem.
Trump talks about a "silent majority", I hope he's actually from Bizarro World and means "vocal [and unhinged] minority".
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Well, having Trump claim something is by now an almost reliable indicator things are the other way round. I think Trump does not even know what "truth" or a "fact" is. He id doing this entire "leadership" thing as sort of a "mood piece" where he purely tries to create emotions and nothing else.
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It's much worse than that, you're right but you're not going far enough.
Trump believes there are no "truths" or "facts" other than what ideas people decide to push, and that it is his entitlement to establish what the truth is as he desires it because he's better at it than everyone else.
Part of Trump's sociopathy is the assumption that everyone is just like he is, so while he an extremely sick and malignant person, this point of view would be entirely expected from him. He is incapable of believing that a
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When Trump shut down travel from Europe in March, everyone was, in fact, screaming bloody murder for a good two weeks
At that time shutdown did exactly nothing. The virus has already been in wide circulation and a couple of additional carriers made no difference whatsoever.
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Furthermore, no one was "screaming bloody murder" over it, people were merely claiming that it would not accomplish anything.
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is an out-of-office Republican and the only good Republican policy is a hypothetical one. When Trump shut down travel from Europe in March, everyone was, in fact, screaming bloody murder for a good two weeks, so I don't have to imagine the reaction. I remember Joe Biden calling him a hateful xenophobe when he shut down travel from China and I remember how no matter what he did it, and keeps doing, it was either insufficient, too late, or excessive. Sometimes all three at the same time. Now we've got a huge outbreak AND tens of millions out of work AND mass rioting AND mass panic AND the self proclaimed party of science and compassion insisting that schooling for children is optional while erasing bad words from the dictionary is essential. Fuck every last one of you.
Before you twist reality too far to meet the needs of your baseless straw man argument lets read a few articles from March :
https://www.bbc.com/news/world... [bbc.com]
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/11... [cnn.com]
https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/1... [cnbc.com]
https://www.politico.eu/articl... [politico.eu]
"Joe Biden calling him a hateful xenophobe" :
https://www.politifact.com/fac... [politifact.com]
"it was either insufficient":
https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]
"Too late"
https://www.pewresearch.org/po... [pewresearch.org]
"or excessive" :
https://www.politico.com [politico.com]
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Yes, it got politicized. Still the President’s job to do the right thing. He failed.
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https://www.newsweek.com/ny-go... [newsweek.com]
Was it Cuomo's job to do the right thing also? Or just Trump's?
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Of course Cuomo failed miserably as well, within the actions at his disposal. But the national failure does not rest on Cuomo.
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