FDA Ends Emergency Use Authorization For Hydroxychloroquine To Treat COVID-19 221
The Food and Drug Administration has ended its emergency use authorization for hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine, drugs the president touted in the fight against coronavirus. Mr. Trump took a 14-day regimen of hydroxychloroquine himself. CBS News reports: Based on the FDA's continued review of the available scientific evidence, it determined the drug is "unlikely to be effective in treating COVID-19 for the authorized uses," the FDA said. The agency added that "in light of ongoing serious cardiac adverse events and other serious side effects, the known benefits "no longer outweigh the known and potential risks."
A study published earlier this month concluded that the drug is not effective at preventing the disease. As CBS News chief medical correspondent Dr. Jon LaPook explains, controlled clinical trials are the only way to prove if a drug works better than a placebo or other treatment, or if its potential benefits outweigh the risks.
A study published earlier this month concluded that the drug is not effective at preventing the disease. As CBS News chief medical correspondent Dr. Jon LaPook explains, controlled clinical trials are the only way to prove if a drug works better than a placebo or other treatment, or if its potential benefits outweigh the risks.
Will this please go away now? (Score:5, Insightful)
I am so sick of this. It's a dead horse. It doesn't work. It never worked. It was only political because Trump said it.
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It was political because one of Trump's largest donors owns the company that makes the stuff.
Doesn't Trump do enough bad things on his own without you having to make things up out of thin air? There are more than a dozen companies "that makes the stuff", not one. Most aren't based in the US. Most are publicly traded and have broadly distributed ownership.
Name the donor, name the amount donated, name the company, and I'll shut up (for now).
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Many companies make it (Score:3, Informative)
Don't let "TDS" be a shield to defend from investigating and from critical thought. Do your own research.
Re:Many companies make it (Score:5, Informative)
Do your own research.
Jesus F. Christ. You've got to be kidding. YOU are the one making the claim, IT IS UP TO YOU TO SUPPORT IT.
Name the company, and name the owner of the company. Bonus points for naming the amount of the donation.
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That comment was directed to:
"Many companies make the stuff, it's off-patent. Any company can make it. Your TDS is killing people now, congratulations."
Curious why you chose the response to demand support from while remaining silent on the prior claims?
The hysterical thing is that anyone would even pretend to need evidence of Trump's corruption.
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one of Trump's largest donors owns the company that makes the stuff.
and
Trump's donor got a gov't contract to supply millions of extra (unnecessary) doses
The only other claim in the chain of posts is:
Many companies make the stuff, it's off-patent. Any company can make it.
I don't ask people to support claims that are common knowledge or non-controversial. Curious as to why you think anyone would.
You'll claim anything I link to is fake news (Score:2)
The only one who can get you out of the rut you're in is you.
Honesty vs Lying (Score:2)
That's your choice here. Looks like you've chosen lying. Again. This is just another one of your ridiculous lies. You're a liar, and you prove it quite frequently. Talk about being in a rut.
I did quite a bit of searching on your stupid claim BEFORE I replied to you. I came up with nothing. Which is the same as what you've got - NOTHING. Now you come up with a pussy-assed excuse for why you won't support your own statements. Pathetic.
And FYI, I've never used the terms "fake news" or "TDS" anywher
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Name the company, and name the owner of the company. Bonus points for naming the amount of the donation.
Before you get all outraged in defense of the GP, maybe name how claiming Trump has a vested interest (true despite it being small) in the supplier of a drug that doesn't work (true by all studies to date) somehow is killing people like the GP claims?
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"Wah!!! Why didn't you say something about the other guy's stupid claim!?" That's what you came here to say? If you don't like something the GP said, feel free to reply to him.
And only a moron would think that by telling someone it is their responsibility to support their own statements, they're "defending" anything at all.
I don't defend stupid hyper-partisans claims, I attack them. Right now, I'm attacking rsilvergun's ludicrous statements. I may or may not engage with Train0987 over whatever stupi
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AC types 980 characters of BS when he could've just posted the link he claims he found. Don't you think that would've been more effective at proving what a cunt I am?
As I posted elsewhere, I did plenty of searching before I even posted in this discussion and came up with nothing. And so far, that's what the both of you have - NOTHING. You can't find evidence of something that didn't occur you idiot.
"I'm not going to post anything to back up my statements and prove you wrong, because you'll just say I'
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There's a big difference between "any company can make it" and "this company has millions of doses sitting in a warehouse". The latter is what matters and they're the ones that had the fix in this deal from the start. You know this. Follow the money...
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Yes, since there is no TDS. You are a terrible, very nasty person and you should be ashamed of yourself.
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Many companies make the stuff
But only one of them has a government contract.
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TDS? The ability to believe Trump? Why yes, that is killing people now.
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Your TDS is killing people now
Oh? His TDS is killing people because he suggested Trump has vested interests in a drug which doesn't work and hasn't shown to be saving lives?
Again, yet another clear example that they only people who accuse others of having "TDS" are themselves absolutely deranged.
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First link I found. [nationalreview.com] Apparently the people who discovered it. [freebeacon.com]
It makes her story - that she heard Trump say something is "a potential game-changer" and that they'll "start testing it right away" and that convinced her to drink from an old bottle with warnings like "poison" and "not for human consumption" on it - rather suspicious.
It also suggests a motive for why she was willing to smear Trump wi
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CNN
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1. You just asked "where did you get such an idea?" so I gave you media stories and 2. NR might have some heavy bias, but they're not CNN.
But I should have guessed that if you couldn't google for a simple news story you couldn't find a solid source [fec.gov] either.
Let me know if you need more help using the internet.
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I don't even know where to start.. But i wish i had points.. -1 Troll...
Double-blind studies do not work like.... I hereby revoke your slashdot license and require you to go study how medical studies are performed what what rules they have to adhere to. You are welcome back when you have done this.
You do know that there are studies about HCQ and covid-19 that shows no increase in lethality.. It did not show any benefit when used alone, in the set conditions, but it did prove it to be safe.
Stop spewing your
Re:Will this please go away now? (Score:4, Insightful)
Trump seems to have the worst judgment ever. He hired people he later claimed were idiots (Mathis etc.). He said China had COVID under control. Then in May he said if there were under 100,000 covid deaths he be doing well. He blames his own federal agencies for incompetence when he's their boss. Did he not learn in eleementary school or at least on Sesame Street that the president has control of the federal branch?
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And yes I meant executive branch. Don't fixate on pedantics.
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he said if there were under 100,000 covid deaths he be doing well.
And if it was over 100,000 then that's what his administration had predicted.
He can't lose either way.
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Donald J. Trump [twitter.com]
Re:Will this please go away now? (Score:5, Insightful)
And Obama famously took responsibility for the actions of the people under him, because the president is ultimately responsible for everything his administration does.
Trump denies this responsibility because he's a dishonorable fuck.
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ICE (built all those cages on the border to separate adults from children)
Oh? You can point to an example of parents being mass separated from their children while Obama was in office? Or maybe we can use your logic to say COVID-19 is actually your fault since you pissed in a toilet that was made using ceramics provided by a Chinese company that paid tax to the government which was then used to research the virus in Wuhan.
This is fun. Let's all play the we did something that we gave to someone else and then get blamed for the thing someone else did game.
Your UID is low enough tha
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The lesson to learn here is that politics trumps (no pun intended) scientific investigation and fact. This hurts science across the board, not just that abou HCQ
Saying something does or does not work requires further scientific investigation. Which simply has not taken place with the combination HCQ/Azithromycin/Zinc. As it stands now there is no double blind study on this, though other doctors in other countries say that there is a positive effect.
This is not about pushing a single treatment for Covid19, b
Re:Will this please go away now? (Score:4, Insightful)
Saying something does or does not work requires further scientific investigation. Which simply has not taken place with the combination HCQ/Azithromycin/Zinc. As it stands now there is no double blind study on this, though other doctors in other countries say that there is a positive effect.
Obviously a huge global conspiracy. If only some government health agency had hired you, you would save the world.
I've seen that mindset before, even recently LOL.
Re:Will this please go away now? (Score:4, Insightful)
I trust a whole world of public health officials are looking for any way to mitigate SARS2. Simply pointing out you have nothing to add, and should know better than to try.
They need to combine the HCQ with pixie dust! What are they all incompetent?
Re: Will this please go away now? (Score:3)
HCQ only works with Zinc and Faith. Clearly the double blind recipients didn't have sufficient faith.
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Never did I suggest "all." A few of them actually are incompetent. [sciencemag.org]
You know, my discussion with you is just not productive at all, is going nowhere, and I suggest that you find someone else to troll (what you became with the words "pixie dust").
I know that your mental deficiencies requires you to respond further. But I'm done now.
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A resonable way to get your hypothesis tested would be to convince a team of medical researchers or crowdfund the research.
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Might could work is not scientific, or even sciencey.
There is nothing sciencey about "I Believe!"
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"Saying something does or does not work requires further scientific investigation. Which simply has not taken place with the combination HCQ/Azithromycin/Zinc. As it stands now there is no double blind study on this, though other doctors in other countries say that there is a positive effect."
And those countries have since changed their positions, and the whole "combination" things has always been part of a misinformation campaign. The most insulting thing, though, is the insinuation that the research comm
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For the exact same reasons that it would be useful to treat cytokine storm syndrome it would be a bad idea to give it otherwise. This is serious "duh," or "downhill both ways" territory.
And according to those same doctors (Score:2)
There are lots of drugs out there that can treat you but who's risks outweigh the benefit. HCQ is one of them. What matters is the dose needed to achieve the effect.
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Trump taking more of it is one the few issues both sides agree on. A toast to bipartisanship!
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Except for all the trials, studies and countries that have used it successfully anyways. The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons started keeping track with their own database of studies showing where it has been successfully used after getting annoyed politics getting inserted into medicine.
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Onyxruby says:"To date, the total number of reported patients treated with HCQ, with or without zinc and the widely used antibiotic azithromycin, is 2,333, writes AAPS, in observational data from China, France, South Korea, Algeria, and the U.S. Of these, 2,137 or 91.6 percent improved clinically."
This.
It is well-understood that even a single properly-executed exploratory study can provide more information than multiple double-blind placebo controlled studies done poorly. Journalists don't understand this
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a single properly-executed exploratory study can provide more information than multiple double-blind placebo controlled studies done poorly.
I think the University of Minnesota double blind randomized HCQ trial is an example of this ( https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/... [nejm.org] ). I am not saying it was a useless study, but the result of HCQ not working is not as clear cut as the news headlines want to make it out to be.
To begin with it was not well controlled. The drugs were administered by the participants with no oversight. The results were conducted through surveys.
The study was not able to mask very well on whether the participants got the
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The Lancet just had to retract the study claiming it wasn't effective
Papers showing it was effective have also been withdrawn [retractionwatch.com], including the paper [retractionwatch.com] that appears to have triggered the Trump administration’s obsession with hydroxychloroquine in the first place.
No single paper has the final word on this. What matters is the consensus formed by multiple studies each using different data and different methods. Based on this, the US FDA found that the benefits did not outweigh the risks. This is a bold move considering the potential repercussions [occrp.org] for speaking out against H
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The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) states that it has about a 90% chance of working on people that have used it. They have been around since the 1940's so they are hardly a new organization created to benefit Trump. They got sick and tired of people putting politics into the middle of medical matters where they do not belong and so they started to track successes of their members and from doctors they knew about from around the world. They have not retracted their claims.
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This is why we need a real study on this that brings in all the different claims of HCQ+Zinc/antibiotics and such.
India is now ramping up it's HCQ use....
https://www.indiaspend.com/ind... [indiaspend.com]
https://www.indiatoday.in/indi... [indiatoday.in]
I cannot understand why nobody want to do a real double-blind study on HCQ (+zinc/antibiotics and whatever else was specified) that will either prove or disprove its efficacy?!
If it works then great.. We have something cheap that works in the fight against covid-19.
If it does not work then g
All about the supply~! (Score:2)
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The treatment can be deadly. Not often, but often enough that (most) people don't take the drug on a whim.
But what it is known to treat is even more deadly, so it's worth the risk for people with lupis or malaria.
Sorry (Score:4, Insightful)
Sorry dead and injured people.
Sorry wasted money.
Nobody could have predicted...
Bleach (Score:2)
How about intravenous bleach? I hope the liberals don't get that one on the FDA Not Recommended list.
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Don't worry, there are plans available on-line for a do-it-yourself lung and throat treatment - all you need is a bottle of bleach and a cool mist humidifier.
NZ no longer CoViD free... (Score:4, Informative)
...we just had a couple of people fly in with the virus. Driven half way down the country (Akl --> Wgn). Apparently one of them felt sick before leaving but went anyway. Usual fun trying to track down the cloud of doom they've sprayed behind them...
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nation... [stuff.co.nz]
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Was one of them James Cameron?
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No, but I intend to use the brakes while we're all going gown this very steep hillside called Covid-19 Pandemic.
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Quarantine has not to work perfectly to be effective. And here's for you the beloved car analogy: Quarantine is more like brakes on a car. I can cite you hundreds of cases where hitting the brakes did not prevent an accident, but that does not mean that brakes are an ineffective security feature on a car.
I think seatbelts would be a better analogy. You wouldn't get very far without brakes. How would you approach a red traffic light without brakes?
But many people never or very rarely use their seatbelt. When it is used, it really improves your chances. No injury instead of injury, light injury instead of bad injury, bad injury instead of being killed, and sometimes you die anyway.
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This is why quarantining healthy people will never, ever work.
Define "work". Do you mean eliminate the virus? In that case you're right. Do you mean prevent the spread of a pandemic? Well many countries would disagree with you, including some in very close proximity to where this shit started.
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Do you mean eliminate the virus? In that case you're right. Do you mean prevent the spread of a pandemic?
Either. The only way to eliminate the virus is through immunization - which is an option we don't have. As for preventing the spread - lockdowns all over the world have not "prevented" any spread. What has happened is "curve flattening", where the rate of spread has slowed slightly. However it still spreads. Now this made sense at the beginning in order not to overwhelm health services. However it was never meant to be the "long term solution" to COVID-19. It was a stop gap while proper contingency and tria
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As for preventing the spread - lockdowns all over the world have not "prevented" any spread.
And yet the massive declines in daily infections in countries implementing the lockdowns and the lack of declines by countries which didn't massively disagree with you.
For future reference, if you're going to outright lie then do so at the end of your post, frankly I've concluded nothing further you wrote past this sentence was worth reading.
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Honestly without a vaccine I think the government should just set up zones with extra
Mixed Blessing (Score:2)
On the up side, people who really need hydroxychloroquine to treat lupus, rheumatoid arthritis and malaria will no longer face shortages caused by idiots vaccuuming up supplies to waste on COVID-19.
Down side: fewer Trump supporters will fall victim to the side effects.
Why is this reported as fact? (Score:4, Insightful)
No. Trump claimed to have been taking it himself. He's the only person to have made this claim, and he's not known for telling the truth.
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Exactly. It is amazing what suckers people are. There is absolutely no reason to believe Trump ever took HCQ. He PROMOTED it.
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No. Trump claimed to have been taking it himself. He's the only person to have made this claim, and he's not known for telling the truth.
No Trump claimed it, the White House official statement repeated it, and his doctor penned and signed and official statement to the fact that he was taking it under his supervision: https://twitter.com/anitakumar... [twitter.com]
Now as to how deep the web of lies goes you can make your own claim. But honestly it doesn't matter what you believe, and it matters even less if he did in fact take it. The statement itself carries far more weight than the action. No one gives a shit what's in Trump's blood and whether he did or
In related news... (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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The Irony of using hydroxychlorquine to treat a virus has always been that it's an immuno-suppressing drug used in the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis, lupus and other immune diseases.
It actually reduces the effectiveness of your immune system, not helps.
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That's what makes it a game changer.
Could have helped (Score:5, Insightful)
It actually reduces the effectiveness of your immune system, not helps.
It could also have helped by reducing the damage that an overpumped immune system does in later stages of the disease. (A lot of the late stage damage to organs by COVID-19 is done by the immune system, unlike earlier stage where SARS-CoV-2's replication is the main driver of damage). It's not entirely stupid: interleukin based treatments follow the same logic
It could also have helped by preventing the virus in successfully fusing with the cell (it actually works successfully in a petri dish. But remember, even a gun works successfully in a petri dish [xkcd.com])
Source: https://viralzone.expasy.org/9... [expasy.org] (Disclaimer: they are colleagues).
THE PROBLEM, is that biology, medicine and life in general are extremely complex and there's a lot of things that could go wrong between a nice idea and actually working solution. (In the past, against chikungunya, hydroxychloroquine has seemed amazing in a pertri dish, but turned out to be more dangerous than useful in real patients).
Now that we have some data and have reviewed it, turns out hydroxychloroquine wasn't such a great idea.
My official medical advice: don't jump on whatever the first snake oil salesman tries to push to you. Wait for the dust to settle and let science to determine usefuleness vs. dangerosity. **Always** ask your doctor. Instead of bringing a lawyer with you to demand (under threat of lawsuit) some treatment you've read about in some corner of the interwebz.
Shifting targets (Score:2)
Frankly, that's noise. (Score:2)
and every conservative here started screaming "Fake news! No shit, it's only useful to prevent infection!"
Sorry, but we're mature adults, we're busy doing actual research against the SARS-CoV-2 virus [bsse.ethz.ch], we don't necessary have time to pay attention to whatever noise some local narcissic baby clowns that serves as politicians are making.
(but thanks for sharing)
:-D
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Yep
addendum: ...other might actually help. (Score:2)
It actually reduces the effectiveness of your immune system, not helps.
there are some good indicator (recovery study) [theguardian.com] that dexomathasone (a corticoid class drug. i.e.: something whose mechanism *IS* to reduce the immune system effectiveness) *COULD ACTUALLY INDEED* help in the worse/heaviest cases of the disease (by helping against the destruction of the lungs by the immune system).
So immune system modulation is not necessarily a wrong idea.
But betting the house on a single molecule (HCQ) before any good result confirms/infirms it was the asinine part. (turns out, HCQ wasn't
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If only we had dozens of previous epidemics to look at to find out what the economic impact of different strategies is!
Oh, wait. We do. Maintaining precautions to slow down the spread of a plague reduces the economic damage compared to just letting it run wild.
Being open at all? Probably necessary. And if everyone wore masks we'd be fine, but they won't, because wearing a mask is now a political signal rather than a practical reality.
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Re:Pandemic is over (Score:4, Insightful)
that's only because Bolsonaro is an admirer of Trump and wants to be in his good graces
Re:Pandemic is over (Score:5, Insightful)
Was it manufactured by a company that Trump has shares in?
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According to Trump’s financial disclosure, he owns between $1,000 - $15,000 of Dodge & Cox fund.
I'll believe that when we get his full tax records.
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Even if the company started to make oodles of their brand name product that nobody buys anymore because it's in generic, just like the one you take, the profits from that alleged "windfall" would only amount to HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS!!!!
Trump once cashed a check for 13 cents [patch.com]. Don't underestimate what he'd do for a couple hundred.
PS: Given that he still hasn't released his taxes, I wouldn't bet that we actually know what he has interests in.
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Brasil halted a hydroxychloroquine on April 24th because it wasn't found effective against Covid-19 and they stopped it because it was killing people.
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Shown to be effective in which clinical trial with reproducible results in which high-impact medical journal?
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As the numbers worldwide are going up..... yeah... an anti-parasitic is definitely effective against this virus.... a-hem.
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You're the sound of a shithead in luxury. Effectively part of the lower class complaining without knowing how good he has it.
Re:Pandemic is over (Score:4, Insightful)
Look who's talking! Shithead, narcissism, anti-social behavior...who knew so much could be encoded in "110010001000"
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https://thehill.com/policy/hea... [thehill.com]
Shouldn't you and Trump be saying Mea Culpa? (Score:2, Insightful)
From the summary you scrolled passed in order to continue recommending a dangerous and ineffective medical treatment.
"in light of ongoing serious cardiac adverse events and other serious side effects, the known benefits "no longer outweigh the known and potential risks."
So let's see... you and Trump promote a medical treatment that is at best a placebo with serious and deadly heart related side effects, and you expect a mea culpa from the people who could see Trump was looking out for himself instead of th
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Re: Democrat scientific method (Score:2)
Well strangely it works.
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The old joke "If Trump cured cancer, Democrats would attack him for putting cancer doctors out of work!"
I've never yet met a Trumpanzee who can admit to even a single bad thing Trump has done. I once managed to get a response off one and the criticism of something Trump has done was "he didn't get the wall built", which doesn't really fit with the question.
So prove you're not an idiot, go and unconditionally criticize something Trump has said or done (not something he's failed to do). Normal people accept t
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Why is the above post down-voted? It is factual, though lacks citations. Google - they are easy to find.
Why is it so hard to separate Trump from this? He tried to use it as an excuse not to do a lockdown/quarantine. That was flat-out evil. But it doesn't mean he wasn't right about this medicine working. Even a broken clock (like Trump) is right twice a day.
HCQ is withdrawn for emergency use, because it is useless at that stage. There is evidence that it is useful in pre-exposure prophylaxis and early post-e
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Still providing that quality commentary...thanks for your service, comrade.
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"The left has done nothing i agree with "
That is a lot os stuff. Are you sure?
Absolutes are absolutely Absolute.