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Communications Medicine Network The Almighty Buck Wireless Networking

Woman Who Sleeps In $500 EMF-Blocking Sack Wants Area-Wide Wi-Fi Limits (arstechnica.com) 301

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: So there's a British woman who's been in the news recently for diagnosing herself with a sensitivity to electromagnetic radiation. She sleeps in a $500 EMF-blocking sack and has reportedly stayed in the sack, from time to time, for 30-hour stretches. The woman -- 70-year-old Rosi Gladwell of Totnes, Devon -- helps lead a small advocacy group on the issue of EMF-related health issues, and she even got the mayor of the Spanish village where she now lives to look into ways to limit Wi-Fi access for residents. She fears that the introduction of 5G mobile networks will kill her. Now seems like a good time to remind readers that there is no evidence to support the idea of "electromagnetic hypersensitivity." The World Health Organization calls it "idiopathic environmental intolerance with attribution to electromagnetic fields," or IEI-EMF.

Since diagnosing herself years ago, Gladwell has taken to sleeping in a sack woven with silver and copper and wraps herself in a protective sheet, according to several British news outlets. (You can find similar on Amazon.) She says that exposures to Wi-Fi and other EMF make her weak, short of breath, and give her pins-and-needle feelings in her face. She spends much of her time in a remote Spanish vacation home where her exposure to EMF is reduced. Still, Gladwell is holding firm in her thinking. Two years ago, she even reportedly got the mayor of the Spanish village Polopos to consider limiting the village's Wi-Fi access. "I am immensely impressed with our local mayor and how seriously he is taking this," Gladwell told the Olive Press at the time. "When talking about the dangers of Wi-Fi technology, he came up with the idea of limiting the hours of access in the village by putting timer switches on the routers in the school, Town Hall, and doctor's surgery." It's unclear if the town enacted the restrictions.

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Woman Who Sleeps In $500 EMF-Blocking Sack Wants Area-Wide Wi-Fi Limits

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  • I think there are already special facilities for people with this kind of disorder - conversion disorder.

    • by sg_oneill ( 159032 ) on Monday September 30, 2019 @10:40PM (#59255182)

      Shortness of breath and pins and needles in the face.

      Sounds like she might have a bad heart or early signs of emphysema. Yeah none of thats from wifi.

      • Re:Special facility (Score:5, Interesting)

        by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Tuesday October 01, 2019 @01:00AM (#59255488)

        They should run a double-blind test. Have someone toggle the wifi on and off, and have her report whether she is feeling any symptoms. Then see if there is any correlation.

        Seems like a good science fair project for a middle school student.

        • I'd even say let them toggle the button and see if they can tell what is on and what is off, randomize it occasionally and tell them when it is randomized. Randomize it about 100 times. As a control, have them repeat one set with the transmitter always on and again with it always off, though you don't tell them about this part of the test.

          Show them their results afterwards.

        • by Firethorn ( 177587 ) on Tuesday October 01, 2019 @01:43AM (#59255576) Homepage Journal

          There was a magazine site that actually took this a step further.

          They modified a wifi router such that it could be in 4 modes:
          1. Normally on
          2. Fully off
          3. Lights off, but broadcasting
          4. Lights on, but not broadcasting.

          They got a number of "EMF Sensitive people" and did a double-blind study where the router was visibly mounted to the ceiling. The test givers didn't know the router had been modified.

          They found a 100% correlation between the lights and the people claiming to be EMF sensitive 0% correlation with the actual wifi signal.

          Their favorite was one of the "most sensitive" immediately sticking her cellphone to her ear when leaving, talking about how she'd "aced" the test, knowing when the radio was on and wasn't.

          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by raorajesh ( 1563781 )
            (stickler alert) If it was a truly randomized test with appropriate sample size then I am surprised that the correlation coefficients are "100%" and "0%" - it is an improbable scenario in this setup. Is there a link to this story?
          • by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday October 01, 2019 @08:59AM (#59256492)
            Comment removed based on user account deletion
          • by dargaud ( 518470 )
            Yeah, we did the same at work with a secretary peon who always complained of the wifi. We put a piece of black tape on the LED and told her we'd turned it off. Problem solved. BTW, people who want an entire city to turn off wifi and/or 4G because of their 'ailment', then I should ask for all cats to be put to death because I'm allergic to them, right ?
        • Re:Special facility (Score:5, Interesting)

          by kot-begemot-uk ( 6104030 ) on Tuesday October 01, 2019 @05:12AM (#59255930) Homepage

          They should run a double-blind test. Have someone toggle the wifi on and off, and have her report whether she is feeling any symptoms. Then see if there is any correlation.

          Seems like a good science fair project for a middle school student.

          It may turn up positive. I have run into a couple of cases where people have some sensitivity to ultrasound. As a result they feel discomfort in the presence of 20-40KHz switching components which you find in most switching power supplies. They blame it on WiFi while it actually is not.

          • by XXongo ( 3986865 )

            It may turn up positive. I have run into a couple of cases where people have some sensitivity to ultrasound.

            Yes, the top end of human hearing does vary from one individual to another, and I've known several people who could hear ultrasound-- apparently it's very annoying.

            For that matter, I've known people who can't hear the 15.7 kHz whine from a flyback transformer misfunctioning, and happily stay in a room watching a TV that I've found it so annoying I can't be in the same room. (No longer a problem now that CRTs are obsolete, though!)

            As a result they feel discomfort in the presence of 20-40KHz switching components which you find in most switching power supplies. They blame it on WiFi while it actually is not.

      • Shortness of breath and pins and needles in the face.

        Sounds like she might have a bad heart or early signs of emphysema. Yeah none of thats from wifi.

        Copper poisoning. Sweat reacting with the copper weaving in the sack she is sleeping in and the result seeping back through skin. Totally self-inflicted too.

    • Re:Special facility (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 30, 2019 @11:06PM (#59255254)

      By all accounts, psychosomatic responses are real in the sense that they cause symptoms indistinguishable from symptoms with a physical case.

      To take a lead from the summary, now seems like a good time to remind the readers that there *IS* evidence to support psychosomatic symptoms resulting from the belief that there is EMF present.

      Studies have shown that a person with that condition who believes a wifi router is on, independent of if it actually is on or not, will exhibit symptoms.
      Likewise, if they believe the router is off, independent of if it actually is on or not, will not exhibit symptoms.

      A wifi router that is transmitting but has no light causing symptoms, and a wifi router that isn't a router, just a box and an LED that causes symptoms, is indicated in the 90% range, far far above random chance.

      If one wants to be indifferent to this lady, it's easy enough to do nothing.
      But if one wants to help her, the only cure to her pain is to ensure she is convinced there is no wifi around her, or any other RF that she believes is RF.

      The cure doesn't need to be any more physical than the cause

      • Re:Special facility (Score:5, Informative)

        by Luckyo ( 1726890 ) on Monday September 30, 2019 @11:31PM (#59255314)

        Completely correct. Friendly reminder to naysayers: psychosomatic responses cover the entirety of illness impacts, including lethal outcomes in cases like psychosomatic asthma.Illness itself is not actually real, but response is. And that response can be lethal.

        And the way you treat the response is to convince the person that the cause of the illness is not there. You don't actually need to remove whatever the person thinks is causing the illness. Convincing the person that this thing is removed is sufficient.

        • Re:Special facility (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Brett Buck ( 811747 ) on Monday September 30, 2019 @11:59PM (#59255374)

          That's all correct, right down the line. Unfortunately, of late, society has taken the tack of indulging people with psychosomatic illnesses - witness "gluten free", which for people without Celiac disease, is simply nonsense. But no one is attempting to tell them that their "disease" is simply in their heads.

                It goes even further than just illnesses, trivial or meritless complaints about discrimination, perceived grievances, are treated seriously, and treated like serious societal issues that demand extreme accommodation from everyone else.

          • But no one is attempting to tell them that their "disease" is simply in their heads.

            Why should they? It is more profitable to just sell them gluten-free ice cream, gluten-free toothpaste, etc.

            The gluten-free fad is stupid, but harmless.

            • by barc0001 ( 173002 ) on Tuesday October 01, 2019 @01:01AM (#59255494)

              > The gluten-free fad is stupid, but harmless.

              And for the poor souls who are actually gluten-intolerant, the fad is actually hugely beneficial by bringing products to market that otherwise wouldn't exist for their small numbers.

              • >> The gluten-free fad is stupid, but harmless.

                > And for the poor souls who are actually gluten-intolerant, the fad is actually hugely beneficial by bringing products to market that otherwise wouldn't exist for their small numbers.

                That's true enough. However, this ties in to the whole "allergy" thing, and people who walk around claiming to be allergic to stuff - when they aren't - do cause massive problems. Both immediate problems, for example, for a restaurant kitchen. And severe indirect problems

            • Hey, one of those "we sell shit to gullible fools" stores recently started selling gluten-free water.

          • To be fair, actual discrimination is way, way, way more common than actual Celiac disease.
          • by k2r ( 255754 ) on Tuesday October 01, 2019 @02:41AM (#59255654)

            > which for people without Celiac disease, is simply nonsense.

            Thatâ(TM)s a really bad example because gluten free is very useful for some people with debilitating diarrhea or other bowel problems.
            Gluten free grains mostly donâ(TM)t contain fructans (some type of carbohydrate) that seem to cause trouble in people with irritable bowel syndrome. So low FODMAP Diet ( Monash University: https://www.monashfodmap.com/ [monashfodmap.com] ) suggests to avoid Gluten to see if it makes a difference.
            You learn that after a few months of explosive diarrhea and still feel like a fraud when buying gluten free stuff...

    • No, the "special facilites" we used to put these things are called "mental hospitals" and those have obviously not been funded as well as they should have for quite some time, opting instead for much cheaper out patient care.

      Electric sensitivity and it's symptoms are definitely real, but it's mental illness and the physical symptoms are psychosomatic. The proper way to deal with this should be with treatment, not by calling them loons, ignoring them or humiliating them by proving to them that their sympt
  • by gullevek ( 174152 ) on Monday September 30, 2019 @10:34PM (#59255164) Homepage Journal

    Instead of worrying about some WiFi attack, she might ask herself how she is going to stay there post Brexit.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      If she is gullible enough to believe the scare stories about wifi then she probably believed the ones about the EU too, and voted for brexit.

    • That's not a problem. After the Brexiteers achieve their aim of returning the British economy to the glories of the mid-19th century as they keep promising, she'll be able to return without having to worry about WiFi.
    • Instead of worrying about some WiFi attack, she might ask herself how she is going to stay there post Brexit.

      Post Brexit WIFI transmissions on UK territory will have a rejuvenating effect powered by the sheer awesomeness of BREXIT that will grant al UK'ers eternal life, eternity at age 20 unless of course they leave the protective envelope of the WIFI signals in which case they will start to age and devolve into brain eating EU supporters.

    • Instead of worrying about some WiFi attack, she might ask herself how she is going to stay there post Brexit.

      The same way any non-EU rich person with a valid visa would?

      Or is Spain going to magically not want rich people coming to stay there now?

  • by BobC ( 101861 ) on Monday September 30, 2019 @10:35PM (#59255166)

    At least it keeps the NSA from listening to the radios they put in your teeth.

  • Better (Score:5, Funny)

    by burtosis ( 1124179 ) on Monday September 30, 2019 @10:37PM (#59255174)
    EMF sensitivities? Lawsuits? Better call Saul... What, too soon?
  • by Futurepower(R) ( 558542 ) on Monday September 30, 2019 @10:39PM (#59255178) Homepage
    There is NO truth whatsoever in her understanding.
    • Talk about coincidence... my daily blog today addresses the stupidity of "the great unwashed" and the outlandish propaganda that certain people are pushing out in an attempt to strike fear into the hearts of the gullible. Aardvark Daily [aardvark.co.nz].

  • ... but fear itself (Score:5, Interesting)

    by BlueLightning ( 442320 ) on Monday September 30, 2019 @10:40PM (#59255180) Homepage Journal

    She fears that the introduction of 5G mobile networks will kill her

    The sad irony is that the needless anxiety itself might actually have a detrimental effect on her health - which will undoubtedly be attributed to the EMF.

  • I remember a story some years ago that a town complained a nearby cell phone towers were causing health issues. To show a sign of good faith they said they would turn it off and immediately when they said they "turned it off" people claimed they started feeling better. Problem is the tower in question was already off for something like 3 weeks before that. Just another nut job that gets it in their heads something is hurting them and you can't tell them otherwise kinda like people against vaccination's even
    • Re:not first or last (Score:5, Interesting)

      by v1 ( 525388 ) on Monday September 30, 2019 @11:30PM (#59255312) Homepage Journal

      There was another famous case where a tower went up and numerous people in the neighborhood immediately developed all sorts of symptoms as a result. This went on for months until finally in a very public display, the cell company showed that the tower hadn't even been hooked up to power yet.

      It's all in their heads, it's been proven over and over again. But that doesn't mean they aren't suffering because of it. It's a mental illness though, and society doing normal things that just happen to trigger it aren't responsible for it. The only "fix" for it is to get them a doctor that can treat the mental problem.

      • "It's all in their heads, it's been proven over and over again. But that doesn't mean they aren't suffering because of it. It's a mental illness though, and society doing normal things that just happen to trigger it aren't responsible for it. The only "fix" for it is to get them a doctor that can treat the mental problem."

        Society is doing a formerly abnormal thing which contributes to her problem, and it's called coddling. If no one had time for her bullshit she would give it up soon enough, because she wou

  • Some ionizing radiation generators to fight back all that nonionizing radiation that is hurting her.

    Ether that or some anti EM drugs (xanax ought to do the trick).

  • And 5G is five times as much Granny frying rays. Hmm....what smells like soup?

  • make her weak, short of breath, and give her pins-and-needle feelings in her face

    ...that's the 70-years-old.

    Seriously, this calls for a double-blind test.

    She spends much of her time in a remote Spanish vacation home

    I wonder if the NHS is picking up the tab for this. Perhaps she needs to move to our National Radio Quiet Zone [wikipedia.org].

  • I wonder how self-involved you have to be to become susceptible to a condition like this? I'm guessing self-involvement is more correlated with the symptoms than EMF is.

    I have the same suspicion about many other disorders and conditions we are all supposed to accommodate.

  • We've got much higher EMF rates here than there... they have a number of channels in the teens on SkyTV, while DirecTV and Dish redundantly have hundreds of channels. We also have more than 5 FM stations in most places. XM and Sirius redundantly transmit mostly the same programs, while WorldSpace barely reaches the UK.

    Basically, 2.4 and 5.8 sound scary because they're close to the magic frequency of the microwave... but there's really plenty of separation from that in FCC rules Part 15

    Sounds like somebody l

  • Who wants to buy her a tin foil hat?
  • I feel like this is a growth opportunity for either Alex Jones or Gwynneth Paltrow.
  • ... Werewolves, perhaps:

    Since diagnosing herself years ago, Gladwell has taken to sleeping in a sack woven with silver and copper and wraps herself in a protective sheet,

    • ... Werewolves, perhaps:

      Since diagnosing herself years ago, Gladwell has taken to sleeping in a sack woven with silver and copper and wraps herself in a protective sheet,

      No, werewolves are real, I am one.

  • Perhaps she should move to West Virginia?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    • by novakyu ( 636495 )

      That ... seems dumb. Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to move the telescope to a reasonable area of the country, where no one wants to live anyway, like South Dakota?

  • Victim of Nocebo (Score:5, Insightful)

    by meerling ( 1487879 ) on Monday September 30, 2019 @11:15PM (#59255274)
    She has a real issue, but it's based in nocebo, that's where you convince yourself that something makes you sick, and that's her problem.
    This whole EM sensitivity thing has been rather thoroughly tested with double blind tests, and there's absolutely no results even indicating that it's possible, not even from a whole crowd of "EM Sensitives" that were tested.
    Their problems are in their heads, not in the EM spectrum.
    • by Calydor ( 739835 )

      Her symptoms are that she feels weak, short of breath, and has pins-and-needle feelings in her face.

      Sounds a lot like the symptoms of OLD AGE in this 70 YEAR OLD lady.

  • Gilligan once hit his head the somehow messed with the fillings in his mouth and he started to receive radio broadcasts. The show digresses from there
  • Some people are more sensitive to certain things, e.g. peanuts. Like, so sensitive it kills them. It is possible that similar sensitivities exist in regards to other things, like EMR.

    • Dude, a tenth of a milliliter wave can't affect any molecule of any kind. Proteins in peanuts are large, complex molecules that can set off a histamine reaction by imitating a similar protein in a particular parasite. Your comparison is idiotic.
      • 0.1mm wavelength is 3THz. Maybe it's time to shut down the computer and stick to whatever your specialty is?

        • by hawguy ( 1600213 )

          0.1mm wavelength is 3THz. Maybe it's time to shut down the computer and stick to whatever your specialty is?

          He said milliLiter, not milliMeter. Come back when you can convert liters to hertz.

      • When did we start measuring EMF in liters?
    • Some animals are able to fly, therefore it follows that anyone who jumps and down will eventually be able to fly as well.

    • by hawguy ( 1600213 )

      Some people are more sensitive to certain things, e.g. peanuts. Like, so sensitive it kills them. It is possible that similar sensitivities exist in regards to other things, like EMR.

      Low level EMR is not the same as a peanut allergy -- some people claim to be sensitive to the auras of dead people, but that doesn't mean it's true.

    • Isn't it interesting how almost every person posting here is _absolutely certain_ that wifi exposure is _completely harmless_? Yet we won't really know for several decades.

      Theoretical medicine is often wrong. It imagines our understanding of pathology to be far greater than it really is. Empirical medicine is always superior, but tends not to become even aware of a problem until there is a already sizeable casualty count.

    • Uhm, IANAD but I was involved in teaching my cousin who was claiming "peanut allergy" is that throat tightening happens when you eat peanuts and peanut butter... but it's something we're all supposed to do at age 2... he didn't. So, after giving him a bunch of peanut butter with something else products, he eventually learned how to open his throat and eventually loved the products of Planters.

      Kieth Olbermann seems to be the only one who doesn't like wheat... he even was caught interfering with my local groc

  • ...that the antidote to EMF idiopathic hypersensitivity is gluten.
  • sounds pretty cheap for peace of mind I suppose?

    Suffering from extreme migraines and breathing problems, Gladwell was diagnosed with electromagnetic sensitivity four years ago.

    I'm curious to hear the qualifications of the "doctor" who diagnosed her.

  • The world is awash in radio waves, switching of some local WIFI repeaters will hardly matter.
    But yeah, people don't (want to) understand the difference between ionising and non ionising radiation.
  • by Nexzus ( 673421 ) on Tuesday October 01, 2019 @12:13AM (#59255402)
    She needs to join the activist group "Citizens United Negating Technology." Right up her alley, so to speak. /it's from GTA3, if you're trying to place it.
  • She should try homeopathics after some muscle testing, aka "applied kinesiology". She just needs to make sure she clicks her heels together 3 times while repeating "there's no place like home...."
  • by 4wdloop ( 1031398 ) on Tuesday October 01, 2019 @12:38AM (#59255450)

    If the earth was any other shape than flat, the EM would not hit her as they go in straight lines but since the earth is flat, well yes, she's got a problem.

  • She does not understand that living next to a "Star" on a Planet will give her way more EMF and EMR than all the WiFi or any other man made devices put together.

  • Reminds me of Saul's brother who had the same nutter emf fears.

    Someone should slip a cell phone into the thing and watch the hilarity occur. See how long it takes for her to realize she's an idiot.

  • I don't question her condition. I do actually believe her that she has all those symptoms.

    What I question is the source.

    The culprit has to be something that she doesn't use or want. Because heaven forbid it is caused by something she is fond of and would have to do without. So let's blame it on something else and make everyone's life miserable, that way she's not the only one suffering, because doing without something she actually wants to have and actually improve her situation is completely out of the que

  • Lady, I found your problem...

    I vote we do a double blind study in an RF shielded box. I know where one is we can likely use... I'll build a plastic box and put a WiFi router inside with a set of wires running outside to a computer that is programed to randomly turn on and off the router and record the cycle times. We will also put a small LED light that the computer also turns on and off randomly, and unrelated to the WiFi signal. Then, we will conduct a study every few min that measures if she is havin

  • Electrosensitivity is as scientifically established as homeopathy. So if you have globuli in your home - turn off your Internet access NOW!

  • Subject her to a double-blind test, and if the results are scientifically conclusive (i.e., more than statistically relevant positive hits), we can talk about doing something against EMF ... until than, stick to your EMF sleeping bag, or move to some EMF quiet zone [emf-experts.com] ...

  • by Zero__Kelvin ( 151819 ) on Tuesday October 01, 2019 @06:46AM (#59256090) Homepage

    "She fears that the introduction of 5G mobile networks will kill her"

    Darwin and I fear that she wont.

  • by jbmartin6 ( 1232050 ) on Tuesday October 01, 2019 @07:48AM (#59256268)
    This is just the new form of bullying. She wants to exercise power by slapping everyone in the face with her "problem" and attacking anyone who disagrees as evil, etc. I guess her magic sack isn't working since she wants everyone else to turn off their wifi.
  • by SuperDre ( 982372 ) on Tuesday October 01, 2019 @01:57PM (#59258032) Homepage

    There also haven't been good studies yet on the long term problems wifi and mobile transmitters have on the body. Long ago they also believed living under powerlines wasn't a problem, now we know better..
    Biggest problem is, what if these transmitters are actually hurtfull to our body, our society relies so much on it now, that it's probably reasonable to think that orginizations will try to hide it and take the illnesses related to the problem for granted and try to find a cure without having to give up the wireless transmissions..

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