Breakthrough Study Reveals How LSD Dissolves a Person's Sense of Self (newatlas.com) 119
New submitter future guy shares a report from New Atlas: A fascinating study led by scientists at the University of Zurich has uncovered key insights into the mechanisms behind how our brain generates our sense of self. The researchers administered lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) to several participants in order to home in on where in the brain our sense of self is activated and what happens when a powerful psychedelic drug interferes with that process. The study administered 24 subjects either LSD, LSD in combination with ketanserin, or a placebo. Ketanserin is a compound that is known to inhibit many of the effects of LSD by blocking the serotonin 2A receptor (5-HT2A receptor). Each subject lay in an MRI scanner while undergoing a series of social interaction simulations with a virtual avatar. As well as the brain imaging, the subjects' eye movements were monitored to track when they were or were not following the gaze of the virtual avatar.
The study demonstrated LSD-altered brain activity in several regions previously identified as fundamental for developing coherent self-representation during social interaction, including the posterior cingulate cortex, medial prefrontal cortex and the angular gyrus. Most importantly though was the observation that ketanserin normalized the effects of LSD to the point where the group influenced by ketanserin and LSD displayed similar results to those under the effect of the placebo. These results strongly suggest that the 5-HT2A receptor plays a fundamental role in the development of self-awareness, and differentiation between the self and others. The value of this research is two-fold. As well as simply increasing our knowledge of how the brain functions under the influence of psychedelic drugs, it is suggested that different psychiatric conditions could be treated by manipulating the 5-HT2A receptor pathways. The study has been published in the journal JNeurosci.
The study demonstrated LSD-altered brain activity in several regions previously identified as fundamental for developing coherent self-representation during social interaction, including the posterior cingulate cortex, medial prefrontal cortex and the angular gyrus. Most importantly though was the observation that ketanserin normalized the effects of LSD to the point where the group influenced by ketanserin and LSD displayed similar results to those under the effect of the placebo. These results strongly suggest that the 5-HT2A receptor plays a fundamental role in the development of self-awareness, and differentiation between the self and others. The value of this research is two-fold. As well as simply increasing our knowledge of how the brain functions under the influence of psychedelic drugs, it is suggested that different psychiatric conditions could be treated by manipulating the 5-HT2A receptor pathways. The study has been published in the journal JNeurosci.
Bumer, man. (Score:5, Funny)
I can't imagine dropping acid and then just lying in an MRI scanner.
Re:Bummer, man. (Score:2)
Re:Bummer, man. (Score:4, Insightful)
When the MRI machine looks like its breathing, some find it funny, others panic.
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One gets claustrophobic in there.Maybe the noise augments it but it's mainly the 'stuck in a tunnel' feeling.
Re:Bummer, man. (Score:4, Interesting)
Yea, I personally would lose my shit if they had me strapped down inside of it. But if i was free to move, I would be able to overcome it, but thats even sober. when you do acid or mushrooms or really anything you may see shit on, you have to mentally prepare yourself ahead of time that, "Hey you might see some fucked up shit, its probably not real" and it helps keep your mind at ease. Ive done a ton of drugs in my life and any time i did psychedelics thats the mindset i went in with.. Never had a trip that was less than fantastic! But it sounds like they have found a drug that will help the weak minded people not kill their self on a bad trip. I wonder what it does to help the people that are permafried.
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I've never been in an MRI machine, but somewhere online (maybe Slashdot?) I read someone describe the experience as like being stuffed into a 55 gallon oil drum while all the flying monkeys from the Wizard of Oz pound on the drum with ball-peen hammers. People I've talked to who have had the experience have nodded in agreement when I told them that description.
Which sounds kind of trippy to begin with, and not in a good way.
I suspect that actual tripping would not enhance the experience in a positive direc
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The first time I was in a closed MRI all I could think about was how a toggle bolt works.
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I was annoyed that nobody would explain all the different rhythms of the machine.
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You left out the measures taken to keep you from moving. If stuffed into an oil drum, I could escape. People generally can't get out of an MRI machine by themselves, and there are reports of patients being left in them during a fire alarm or overnight. Other than that, you've pretty well got it right.
It's really fortunate that I was into relaxation exercises before I went in for the first one. I tend to be claustrophobic.
Re:Bumer, man. (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't imagine dropping acid and then just lying in an MRI scanner.
Only your body has to remain there.
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problem is, my brain is inside my body and connected to it. as soon as the drugs realized I couldnt move... heart beat to infinity!
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That's so funny. That is the exact same reaction I had as well. On acid, most of the trips I just wanted to move around. The last thing I'd have wanted to have done is be in an MRI machine! :-)
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I can't imagine dropping acid and then just lying in an MRI scanner.
Agreed. I always felt claustrophobic indoors on acid. Can't imagine the tube.
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You don't need drugs to lie to yourself.
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Helped a friend build an isolation tank from an old MRI scanner tube.
Re: LSD affinity: LSD acts on much more than 5-HT2 (Score:5, Insightful)
One of the remaining legacies of colonialism is the suppression of psychedelics. They were used in religious rituals for thousands of years in the Americas, and as such a sacrement, their use is in fact a constitutionally protected right.
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The problem is that in today's culture, it seems like 'getting wasted' is the objective of drug use. Drink some beer, take some speed and maybe some shrooms, man. Get bent.
Chemicals are a tool, to be used with care. 'Tripping' shouldn't be a 'gee, wow!' roller coaster ride.
But this amounts to preaching to the choir, I imagine, on /.
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I've found the gee wow rollercoaster of some substances helpful for self reflection and growth.
Maybe gee whoah is more accurate, but some substances cram self knowledge at a place that's barely comprehensible and could definitely be called a roller coaster, then trigger the profound part of the brain hard (DMT, I'm looking at you).
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Seems to me you are only able to think what others have told you. From the comments I've read, it seems as if all of us that HAVE taken these types of drugs have a more open mind than you. And apparently it helped us think for ourselfs.
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Username checks out...
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Lol didn't expect to see that here. Well played my imgur friend.
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The problem is that in today's culture, it seems like 'getting wasted' is the objective of drug use. Drink some beer, take some speed and maybe some shrooms, man. Get bent. Chemicals are a tool, to be used with care. 'Tripping' shouldn't be a 'gee, wow!' roller coaster ride. But this amounts to preaching to the choir, I imagine, on /.
I don't think you understand the expression "preaching for the choir". Since the church choir is mostly devout believers, it means the priest is talking to the people who already agree with him. The implication is that the priest is wasting his time instead of trying to convert non-believers. So unless you think /. so overwhelmingly agrees with you it's kinda redundant to say it you're not "preaching for the choir". Perhaps you meant to say "preaching for deaf ears"? That means a wasted effort because peopl
Re: LSD affinity: LSD acts on much more than 5-HT (Score:1)
You sound as bad as the prohibitionists. What's wrong with pleasure? Why does everything have to be used for serious purposes?
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The problem is that in today's culture, it seems like 'getting wasted' is the objective of drug use. Drink some beer, take some speed and maybe some shrooms, man. Get bent.
Chemicals are a tool, to be used with care. 'Tripping' shouldn't be a 'gee, wow!' roller coaster ride.
Why? Who are you to determine the 'correct' use? This is no different to prohibition really, you have decided on your moral stance and want to impose it on others.
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The problem is that in today's culture, it seems like 'getting wasted' is the objective of drug use. Drink some beer, take some speed and maybe some shrooms, man. Get bent.
I'm not a druggie, but I don't see why "getting wasted" is necessarily a problem. If they're not driving, not hurting anyone else, and not taking something addictive, so not likely to turn to crime to fund an addiction (such as the shrooms you mentioned above- which are non-addictive), why is that a problem?
If someone wants to take shrooms to hallucinate or "get wasted" why is that a problem for you? From what I understand, no one has ever had a medical emergency due to taking them, and you can't get addi
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That's because, just like with marijuana, there are no effects [rightdiagnosis.com] to taking shrooms. Nonewhatsoever [medscape.com]. No one has ever had an adverse medical reaction [medscape.com] to something so natural.
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The three drugs that we see in the ER that are of real concern are:
1) Alcohol 2) Alcohol and 3) Alcohol.
THEN comes meth (tweakers are so much fun) and then heroin, or more accurately, fentanyl and carfentanyl, overdoses.
Until we actually deal with the 10% of the population that meets criteria for alcohol addiction, we really aren't moving the needle. Everything else is a rounding error.
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Naw, it's not colonialism (Score:2)
What's scary is that even with all this history known and available we still can't get drugs legalized. That's not just because of corruption. At best only 65% support legalizing weed (and you can forget about legalizing the
Re:Naw, it's not colonialism (Score:4, Interesting)
Even more disturbing is the fact that the government refuses to accept any thereputic value to weed or the harder stuff.
Yet ketemine seems to accutely end severe suicidal idealation. MDMA can be great for therapy (couples or PTSD). LSD plus therapy while on it looks promising for addiction to more dangerous substances (alcohol included). Mushrooms microdoesed for depression (anecdotally, this is a more tenuous claim than the others).
All of this, but the government decided there is no thereputic value, and judges decided no legal argument can be made to strike down the laws.
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unlawful enough to be suppressed
implies that there is a law that prohibits the act. That also implies that the law was made at some point in history under certain circumstances and for certain reasons. The majority of laws are not made based on scientific evidence but on the gut feeling and idealistic values of the people in power. If they would be based on science you would have to illegalize alcohol and tobacco. For human sacrifice you have to decide who is to be sacrificed and kill that person. That is not the case for drug consumptin
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They (psychedelics) were made illegal when?
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I think the ingredients for Ayahuasca can be possessed and used legally for religious ceremonies in the US, but I generally hear about people going to South America for that experience. VOX had an article about it [vox.com] a few weeks ago.
There are also some new compounds available that are hypothesized to metabolize into LSD inside the body.
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There are a lot of psychedelics with LSD-like effects. And they are all 5-HT2A agonists. Also, most effects disappear when an antagonist like ketanserin is given, as mentioned in the study.
Therefore, it can be deduced that 5-HT2A is where the magic lies. Of course, it can be helped by the other affinities, but it is much less clear than with the 5-HT. A rigorous study needs to eliminate external factors, and as you probably know since you tried LSD, psychedelic experiences are highly dependent on "set and s
LSD affinity: LSD acts on much more than 5-HT2A. (Score:1)
LSD acts on much more than 5-HT2A. Source:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/20/LSDaffinities.GIF
Interesting research, glad its being done. I wonder why they targetted just 5-HT2A as there is much more going on. Probably because getting approval is just so dang hard. Humanity should of invested far more in the scientific controlled research of psychedelics by now.
Im glad I got to try LSD and other psychedelics a decade ago. I am fundamentally a different person from it. Its great to get to know "yo
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"I wonder why they targetted just 5-HT2A as there is much more going on."
I'm guessing this kind of hyperbole plays a part :
"These results strongly suggest that the 5-HT2A receptor plays a fundamental role in the development of self-awareness"
"The current results demonstrate that activity in areas of the ‘social brain' can be modulated via the 5-HT2AR thereby pointing towards this system as a potential target for the treatment of social impairments associated with psychiatric disorders."
Re: Shrooming (Score:2)
Anecdotally, I'd say yes. A friend of mine from youth completely lost himself on shrooms, didn't know who he was.
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It is sometimes said that "shrooms are analog, acid is digital", but they do take you in the same general direction. So does alpha-methyl tryptamine. I haven't been lucky enough to get DMT. Phenethylamines have a considerably different feel than tryptamines, but they're not a completely different thing. There's less ego loss on psychedelic phenethylamines, as far as I can determine, but I can't possibly control for all variables and I've heard peyote will break a person down pretty much the same way as LSD
Cheaper / easier option (Score:3)
LSD Dissolves a Person's Sense of Self
Post something too clever on /. and get modded down.
Re:Cheaper / easier option (Score:4, Funny)
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Clever, I can think of just one change in a particular sentence, to more closely reflect reality, " it is suggested that different psychiatric conditions could be 'CREATED' by manipulating the 5-HT2A receptor pathways" and don't think anyone didn't think of that especially in conjunction with the US Military Industrial Complex and it's leading proponent the CIA. Let's all bet that, the reality of intentional abuses was funding this particular research project. Primary objective, get anyone to say what ever
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Zurich is an oddly appropriate choice, since the world's first LSD trip in 1954 occurred in Basel.
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Andy Warhol?
I thought he changed his name and is now the mayor of Chicago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Strat
Loss of ego (Score:3)
Other than the mechanism, this is pretty much old news.
Originally published in '79 by Albert Hoffman: LSD, my problem child
https://books.google.com/books... [google.com]
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Self, lesser or no self? (Score:1)
Lets just look at the current POTUS. Clear case of lots of Self and in a desperate need to adjust anything not agreeing with it so it agrees.
Is this a way to live? Seems a pretty busy undertaking and in a larger amount of collisions with not agreeing Selfs and that following unhappiness with inner conflict because in such a big Self, unhappiness cannot be shown or tolerated.
I'd say, lesser self is a wiser choice.
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A billionaire who nails lots of hot chicks. Yeah, it must be so awful for him...
Based on his wife's behavior in public, and the multitudes of other women who seem to be involved, I would posit that the number of encounters with each woman approaches 1. That doesn't sound appealing to me, but maybe some people enjoy it.
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A billionaire who nails lots of hot chicks. Yeah, it must be so awful for him...
On the surface that sounds great- but never getting a genuine emotional connection from a woman, or repeat encounters doesn't sound great. Love making gets much better the more you get to know someone and you each learn to please the other better.
A bunch of one time encounters with skanky adult film stars doesn't measure up and is like a lot of other things about his life- going for the shine and not the real substance.
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Wow, absolutely respectful towards the other sex, seems something has not yet penetrated to here...
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What's better? Lets just look at the current POTUS. Clear case of lots of Self and in a desperate need to adjust anything not agreeing with it so it agrees. Is this a way to live? Seems a pretty busy undertaking and in a larger amount of collisions with not agreeing Selfs and that following unhappiness with inner conflict because in such a big Self, unhappiness cannot be shown or tolerated. I'd say, lesser self is a wiser choice.
Some med to dissolve your obsession with Trump would be nice, lol
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Trump looks like a good example to illustrate what GP wanted to say, and he's well known. Why not use him as an example? If I wanted to talk about certain brain problems in a person in a position of authority, I'd probably mention Woodrow Wilson.
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Welcome to the new Godwin's Law, only it's Trump instead of Hitler and trump supporters instead of nazis. There's one in every thread eventually.
LSD (Score:2)
"Melts in the Mind, NOT The Mouth!"
TFS is dead wrong (Score:2)
$.02
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But who did the study? (Score:2)
one and all (Score:2)
hard to have self when you are at one with the universe
not that I ever took drugs,
ok,
but I never inhaled
27 people doth not a decent study make. (Score:2)
Last point, spacing out != dissolving of self.
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Brands?
Not a social experiment.
First you aren't the world - maybe you should take some LSD? Second you are most likely wrong.
Again with the ego. Maybe others have other definition that is more generally accepted? Maybe this is a step towards defining "self"?
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Sometimes (Score:2)
LSD therapy research (Score:2)
Medical research is building a good body of evidence for therapeutic
LSD in conditions such as PTSD and intractable depression.
https://www.newscientist.com/a... [newscientist.com]
http://psychedelicscience.org.... [psychedeli...nce.org.uk]
Chemtrails (Score:1)
We can use this research to improve our chemtrail program. We need a way to ensure docility and compliance with The Party's rule in the general population. Less self interest and more emphasis on the needs of the masses. As defined by The Party, of course.
Neural basis of self (Score:2)
Neural basis of self [wikipedia.org]
This is one of those Wikipedia articles which colour between the lines, yet miss the target entirely. Not a lick of biochemistry in the entire treatment.
As an alien, you wouldn't even begin to suspect that body image or eating disorders was a human thing. The funny thing is, we only ever warn our children about the Wikipedia articles that hit the topic dead square, without colouring between the lines whatsoever.
Of course, by the bitter-endive corollary of Godwin's law, no good deed suffi
Psychedelics On Film: An Illustrated Journey (Score:2)
Rich Haridy - Psychedelics On Film: An Illustrated Journey [youtube.com] — 9 March 2016
I'm guessing this is the same Haridy.
Who wouldn't want to know about The Tingler with Vincent Price? (3m15) or The Love Statue (5m20).
Then he gets in the first serious contender, Chappaqua.
other way around (Score:1)
Agency is when you start taking command of your brain. Agency is not something your brain cooks up.