Tylenol May Kill Kindness (washingtonpost.com) 169
Long-time Slashdot reader randomErr writes: In research published in the journal Social Cognitive and Affective Neuroscience scientists describe the results of two experiments conducted involving more than 200 college students.Their conclusion is that acetaminophen can reduce a person's capacity to empathize with another person's pain. "We don't know why acetaminophen is having these effects, but it is concerning," senior author Baldwin Way, an Ohio State University psychologist, said. One of the studies has half the group consume a liquid with acetaminophen while the other group received a placebo. The group that drink the acetaminophen thought that people they read about experiencing pain was not as severe as the placebo group thought.
The Washington Post notes that acetaminophen is the most common drug ingredient in the United States, adding that "about a quarter of all Americans take acetaminophen every week."
The Washington Post notes that acetaminophen is the most common drug ingredient in the United States, adding that "about a quarter of all Americans take acetaminophen every week."
Sounds plausible (Score:5, Interesting)
I mean, the medicine alters your brain's perception of pain. Makes sense that it could, by proximity of function, alter your brain's perception of other people's pain.
Re:Sounds plausible (Score:4, Interesting)
I personally find that acetaminophen is also good on the kind of pain induced by psychological withdrawl. If my brain starts hurting after having to go without one or more of my psychotropics for days, acetaminophen is better at addressing the spike being driven into my skull than other analgesics. So it does seem plausible that people with pain in the body may want to prefer NSAIDs or aspirin, unless contraindicated.
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The reason is that, if I recall right, paracetamol actually has anadamide-reuptake-inhibition effects. Anandamide is an endocannabinoid.
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No it doesn't. "proximity of function" is a nonsense phrase. Try explaining that in biological instead of social science terms.
Re:Sounds plausible (Score:4, Interesting)
Perception of pain is reduced by the medicine.
Person tries to empathize with pain described by imagining what it would feel like.
Perception of pain IS REDUCED.
Objective expression of empathy becomes reduced as a result, but subjectively, seen from the people in the test? They probably didn't feel less empathic.
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I don't think it is quite like that. But acetaminophen does disable the sensation of pain by acting on the nerves directly, it even has counter effects when taken with sedatives like diazepam (Valium), so it is not surprising it has other effects on the nervous system.
Except you don't feel pain when empathizing.. (Score:2)
You feel FOR other's pain.
You get an emotional reaction AS IF you're being hurt - minus the pain.
And even that is if you're REALLY susceptible to empathy. Most cases you just feel a bit sad.
Otherwise, doctors in hospitals would be dead from shock in a few days from all the pain they'd empathize with.
Similarly, we don't get carted out of theaters on a stretcher after watching a comedy surrounded by other people and their happiness.
It's a psychological study.
It's a safe bet that it is either bullshit or overb [retractionwatch.com]
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You don't feel literal pain, but most likely some of the pathways are shared for experiencing someone else's pain and your own. Evolution is good at optimizing.
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Tell that to your appendix. And unwanted body hair. Or wanted but no longer there hair. Or your wisdom teeth.
But besides that... even at a glance (which is far more than it should be given) data measured in the study, along with their p-values, are of the kind which will clearly disappear in a larger group with proper controls.
They get median changes in values from -0.22 for acetaminophen to +0.22 for placebo groups - on a scale of -4 to +4. For physical pain.
-0.19 and +0.19 for social pain.
That's the resul
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You feel FOR other's pain.
You get an emotional reaction AS IF you're being hurt - minus the pain.
Tylenol has been indicated to reduce emotional pain as well as physical pain [slashdot.org], so equating empathy for others' pain to an emotional response supports this.
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First study is bursting with methodology flaws. I doubt that it was even published.
Aaaaand I was right. It was heavily edited before publishing.
He dropped [nih.gov] the prostitute scenario in the first experiment (the one actually showing more "empathy" for the placebo group).
In the video scenario... well...
Apparently it's not acetaminophen but watching David Lynch that's causing the effect.
Cause while the control group, which watches only cartoons, has minimal effects, well covered by error bars for both placebo and
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Not every medicine works at that level. Aspirin, Ibuprofen, naproxen sodium (alleve), while all different, are all COX-2 inhibitors, which reduce the production of prostaglandin hormones that both promote inflammation and sensitize peripheral nervous system neurons to pain. This is why you can't stack aspirin with Ibuprofen; they both work the same way. These drugs are unlikely to affect your judgment other than by reducing pain and inflammation.
You *can* stack acetaminophen (Tylenol) with Ibuprofen, sa
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After a recent accident, I was given a combintaion of Oxycodone and paracetamol, it was remarkable how much difference between just Oxycodone, and the paracetamol at the same time was, much better when combined.
I read somewhere recently that studies had shown paracetamol was ineffective for back pain.
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Guess is why Over-The-Counter Paracetamol+Codeine is available in places :)
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"It's so easy to hurt others when you can't feel pain" -- Hall and Oates, "Rich Girl"
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Uh Oh... (Score:5, Insightful)
Hope the military aren't looking into this side effect. [wikipedia.org]
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I suspect your post is a perfect example of the point the linked author is trying to make (I haven't listened to the talk, just read the summary). Knee-jerk politics and fallacy ridden policy serve no one, regardless of ideology or issues.
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The figures I gave are from the government, not me. I'm just quoting them. Being worried about people losing health care coverage isn't knee-jerk politics unless you've taken too much Tylenol. :-)
But we can't blame Tylenol for the original problem, even in our wildest dreams. Both major parties are broken when it comes to serving citizens first, and that's down to greed and a lust for power. "Citizens" is just another variable to be manipulated.
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If 22 million people decide that once they're no longer going to be fined for failing to insure themselves they'll take on the risk of being uninsured, I'm pretty fucking short on empathy if they subsequently find themselves lacking necessary health care.
But no, I wont kill myself. Nice show of empathy there from you.
Re:Uh Oh... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Uh Oh... (Score:4, Informative)
And you obviously don't realize that this is the planet Earth, where shit happens. A small likelihood, over time, grows into a near certainty.
And your numbers are off. Stop making up shit when it's so easy to go to the CBO and get the facts [cbo.gov]:
CBO and JCT estimate that, in 2018, 15 million more people would be uninsured under this legislation than under current law—primarily because the penalty for not having insurance would be eliminated. The increase in the number of uninsured people relative to the number projected under current law would reach 19 million in 2020 and 22 million in 2026. In later years, other changes in the legislation—lower spending on Medicaid and substantially smaller average subsidies for coverage in the nongroup market—would also lead to increases in the number of people without health insurance. By 2026, among people under age 65, enrollment in Medicaid would fall by about 16 percent and an estimated 49 million people would be uninsured, compared with 28 million who would lack insurance that year under current law.
That's 5 million less. And many of those 15 million are going to wish they had health care insurance, especially with the 6-month penalty if they sign up for coverage, and the pre-existing conditions waivers. The reason for insurance is to spread the risk pool, because it's guaranteed that some will need it, and there is no way to predict it.
And the effect will vary by state:
In the agencies’ assessment, a small fraction of the population resides in areas in which—because of this legislation, at least for some of the years after 2019—no insurers would participate in the nongroup market or insurance would be offered only with very high premiums. Some sparsely populated areas might have no nongroup insurance offered because the reductions in subsidies would lead fewer people to decide to purchase insurance—and markets with few purchasers are less profitable for insurers. Insurance covering certain services would become more expensive—in some cases, extremely expensive—in some areas because the scope of the EHBs would be narrowed through waivers affecting close to half the population, CBO and JCT expect. In addition, the agencies anticipate that all insurance in the nongroup market would become very expensive for at least a short period of time for a small fraction of the population residing in areas in which states’ implementation of waivers with major changes caused market disruption.
The areas with the poorest people will have the fewest purchasers. That means some areas will not have nongroup insurance at any price.
Under this legislation, starting in 2020, the premium for a silver plan would typically be a relatively high percentage of income for low-income people. The deductible for a plan with an actuarial value of 58 percent would be a significantly higher percentage of income—also making such a plan unattractive, but for a different reason. As a result, despite being eligible for premium tax credits, few low-income people would purchase any plan, CBO and JCT estimate.
And how about a new lifetime cap?
Out-of-pocket spending would also be affected for the people—close to half the population, CBO and JCT expect—living in states modifying the EHBs using waivers. People who used services or benefits no longer included in the EHBs would experience substantial increases in supplemental premiums or out-of-pocket spending on health care, or would choose to forgo the services. Moreover, the ACA’s ban on annual and lifetime limits on covered benefits would no longer apply to health benefits not defined as essential in a state. As a result, for some benefits that might be removed from a state’s definition of EHBs but that might not be excluded from insurance coverage altogether, some enrollees could see large increases in out-of-pocket spending because annual or lifetime limits would be allowed.
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You always have the same complaint, ignoring all the benefits you get from publicly funded projects - roads, sidewalks, water and sewer, fire, police, food inspection, etc. Grow the f*ck up and quit your whining. It's become exceedingly tedious.
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MY brilliant POS/ERP system
Citation needed. Also, "resumes" is a plural, so it doesn't have an apostrophe.
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Of course they are. Why do you think the Soviets boozed up their soldiers before sending them to fight in WW2 against like Finland? Mind you, they didn't always make for the best troops, but at least they kept trying to go forwards.
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Boozing up your soldiers/sailors is an ancient tradition. e.g. 'Dutch courage'. 'The royal navy runs on rum and sodomy' etc etc.
Plenty of legitimate things to beat up the Ruskys with.
In the winter war, you can bet both sides kept flasks on antifreeze on hand.
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The topic should be updated (Score:2, Informative)
This active ingredient is used by multiple manufacturers and highlighting a trade name and not the active ingredient the study was conducted on is bad practices.
Re: The topic should be updated (Score:2)
In the US, Tylenol has become synonymous with aceominophen (or paracetamol) -- the vast majority won't recognise the name "aceominophen".
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In the US, Tylenol has become synonymous with aceominophen (or paracetamol) -- the vast majority won't recognise the name "aceominophen".
In France, and apparently most of Europe, only the international name "paracetamol" is known, which isn't even mentioned in the summary... It's above the two others on Google...
Wikipedia says [wikipedia.org] "acetaminophen is the name generally used in the United States, Japan, Canada, Venezuela, Colombia and Iran; paracetamol is used in international venues"...
And for Tylenol [wikipedia.org]: "as of 2017, the Tylenol brand was used in Brazil, Canada, China, Egypt, Lebanon, Myanmar, Oman, the Philippines, Portugal, Spain, Switzerland, Tha
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Good to know. The stuff does absolutely nothing with me when I have pain so I avoid using it.
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Same here, the only things that work for me are tequila and nitrous oxide.
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Same here, the only things that work for me are tequila and nitrous oxide.
I wonder if you could make a sparkling Tequila?
Like soft drinks are "carbonated". Only instead of carbonation it would be nitrous oxide forming the bubbles.
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I found some hits for using it with beer but I suspect they're getting it confused with nitrogen, which I know for a fact is used for stuff like stouts.
Do you know anyone who works in a hospital/dental clinic ... give it a try (though I wouldn't!).
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It's like they speak an entirely different language there...omelet du fromage...
They can all actually understand english, but only if you speak very slowly and with a fake frog accent.
Actually: The best way to fake them out and get them to admit speaking English is to learn a little German.
Clickbait (Score:2)
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Don't try and make it much more complicated than that either. Using is a choice, it was always a choice. Not an easy choice, but until the choice is made, 'help' is pointless.
I don't know what to do with the pavlovian, end stage, almost automatons. Giving them a pass, because 'addiction', isn't part of the plan.
I think the current wave of analogs from China plus local chemical knowledge will bring about de facto legalization. But the system will convulse for decades first and junkies will be dying in d
Paracetamol (Score:5, Informative)
For the non-North-Americans, it's referring to Paracetamol.
Strangely, ibuprofen and aspirin have the same names, but aceominophen/paracetamol doesn't.
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The chemical name is para-acetylaminophenol. Both acetaminophen and paracetamol take a different subset of the letters.
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There are numerous other drugs that have slightly different generic names in different parts of the world, but most of them are not OTC and so are invisible to the layman. US succinycholine == UK suxamethonium, for example.
How Does Acetaminophen Work? Nobody knows (Score:2)
Interesting observation (Score:2)
I think most of us have experienced the "wince reaction" when we someone else take a hit.
My kids called this "sympathy pain" when they were little.
What interests me about this study is I wonder what effec
What about other analgesics? (Score:4, Interesting)
Comparing Tylenol against placebo is a start, but until it's compared against other pain relievers we won't know if the effects are specific to the drug or a generalized response to pain relievers in general.
Does Tylenol even work? (Score:3)
Over the years I've tried Tylenol for physical bumps and bruises and it has never seemed to work. Does it work for anyone? Aspirin and Ibuprofen both seem pretty effective, but Tylenol is like taking a sugar pill.
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Only Tylenol 4 :) Codeine has a superadditive effect with acetaminophen. Otherwise, my experience is like yours. Aleve also works, kind of. Orudis KT worked great but they took it off the market because it was a liver killer.
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Yep, same here.
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>"Does it work for anyone? "
It doesn't for me. Seemingly does absolutely nothing, regardless of the dose. Ibuprofen, however, works great.
More Great Editing (Score:2)
"The group that drink the acetaminophen thought that people they read about experiencing pain was not as severe as the placebo group thought."
If you can unscramble this, you're good. Slashdot "editors"--- great work!
Next test (Score:2)
Is it just painkilling meds doing this?
Is this result ALSO seen to any degree with say, aspirin, ibuprofen, etc?
That's the real question.
You know also what kills empathy ? (Score:2)
from personal experience (Score:1)
Sounds reasonable to me.
When I would take Excedrin (which has acetaminophen) I would get this lovey type feeling.
Maybe it acts like other drugs and reduces the ability of those lovey sections of the brain from working as well.
I am not a lovey guy but I am not about to jump to the conclusion is was all the Excedrin I was taking but I always worried a bit that I may have overdid it because of its affects on the liver. Now I have one more thing to dissuade me from using it.
Intended effect (Score:1)
Pain is an absolutely essential component of the information you get from your environment. It's a required part of complete cognitive process.
In case you missed most of reality (mass surveillance, stupefying media, federally mandated false education, economic disparity (bubbles, crashes, depressions), etc.), most of society exists to control you. The medical industry is no exception. It exists not to help you achieve your potential through good health, but to CONTROL you, keeping you healthy enough to work
irony (Score:2)
>"Their conclusion is that acetaminophen can reduce a person's capacity to empathize with another person's pain."
I find that ironic because it seems acetaminophen doesn't do anything at all to alleviate my pain, ever. Ibuprofen, on the other hand, works great. Perhaps many of the test volunteers were still IN PAIN when using acetaminophen and so they can't think of others at the time (pain is, unfortunately, very good at bringing focus to itself).
Acetaminophen Kills Kindness? (Score:1)
Well, I finally understand why there are so many out and out a**holes on Internet message forums these days. Here I just thought it was basic human nature expressing itself from the anonymity of a made up user handle.
US college students are not representative (Score:5, Funny)
Didn't someone show that US college students are pretty much the worst subjects to do any testing on?
http://ds-wordpress.haverford.... [haverford.edu]
Tylenol May Kill Kindness (Score:1)
That's Paracetamol for UK posters (Score:2)
I had no idea it was so effective! (Score:2)
I just had Tylenol (Score:2)
I just had Tylenol and now I'm going to vote everyone's posts down on this topic.
Re: nope (Score:3)
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Exactly. Tylenol does exactly *nothing* for migraines. One of the worst migraines I have ever had was when I was on the nominal dose of Vicodin, which is like super-Tylenol with a mild opiate.
Aspirin and caffeine (anacin or Excedrin {which has tylenol as a "filler" as far as I can tell}) is the only thing that you can get over-the-counter that is likely to have an positive effect on migraines.
Science Disagrees (Score:4, Informative)
However, in both cases these are mild pain relievers and while they work for my migraines which are not particularly severe for more severe cases, like those my dad used to sometimes have, more powerful medications are required. In the UK you can also get paracetamol with added codeine tablets over the counter (in limited numbers and dosages since codeine is mildly addictive) and I find this often works particularly well taken at the start of a migraine.
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Considering the migraine is due to blood vessels dilating you would be better off with something which actually has an effect on that like caffeine or aspirin.
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is effective against migraines but only in about 10% of people.
So...one tenth of the time it works most of the time?
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Not really. The statement is that it is consistently effective for a specific 10% of the population. Not that it is only effective 10% of the time for everyone.
Once you identify who is in the 10% and who is in the 90%, you stop using it for the 90%, so per-use it would actually be effective quite a bit more than 10% of the time.
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As a side note, I too suffer from severe headaches. What I have found that works for me is to eat foods highly spiced with cayenne pepper. The reason cayenne works is that the active ingredient in cayenne is capsicum which is a natural pain reliever. Not a single over-the-counter or prescription medicine has ever worked for me, but cayenne does. I can have a really bad headache and within 15 minutes of eating highly spiced foods the headache is gone. Works every time for me.
There are more peppers than
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Swearing is an effective painkiller.
And yeah, this is serious, there is peer-reviewed research and all that stuff.
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They were warning about the enemy within. We never thought it would become in the form of a sack of shit disguised as a bag of semi-sentient Cheetos.
If someone had written this as a way for space aliens to destroy the human race, it would have been laughed at. But look at that thing Trump calls hair - lots of tendrils going into the head - perfect for mind control :-)
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They are more 'religious', most for profit churches (which is virtually _all_ of them) are structured as charities for tax purposes. Put another way...many conservatives deduct social club dues as charity giving.
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Foote was diagnosed with cancer in April 2004, and returned to Edmonton for treatment at the Cross Cancer Institute. But the disease had taken a firm grip, and he died one month later, leaving behind a will which left only a tiny fraction of his $220 million US estate to his family. (Anne got an annuity, the children got $100,000 each, according to a report in the Sydney Morning Herald.)
The bulk of his fortune was left to the Edmonton Community Foundation and The Lord Mayor's Charitable Fund in Melbourne, Australia.
Bentley, his longtime friend, was executor of the will. He believes Foote had given his children what they really needed — which was not his vast fortune.
"He felt that if he gave his children an education and money to buy a house and left them a small amount in his will that that was enough," he said. "If they're educated they can make a living."
The family didn't see it that way. Anne and five of his children filed suit in what became a long and bitter challenge of the will, which also directed her to move out of Foot Nort within two years.
The justice hearing the case in Alberta Court of Queen's Bench called the will "mean spirited" noting that it "essentially disinherited his immediate family."
But despite that, the challenge failed in 2009
Sounds like a Hallmark Movie-of-the-Week.
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Couldn't say, really. But it sure explains the problem with my mother...
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"Not so bad huh? Here's some highlights from last week's rehabilitation ... And who could forget that wonderful finish by rehab officer Tylenol Jones! And tomorrow night looks even more better! Word is that Beef Supreme himself might come out of retirement!"
-- Formica Davis