'Chiropractors Are Bullshit' (theoutline.com) 328
From an article on The Outline, submitted by two readers: If you're one of the approximately 80 percent of Americans who have suffered from back pain, you may have been referred to a chiropractor for medical help. In the modern-day internet landscape, you'll find chiropractic celebrities like Dr. Josh Axe (1.7 million Facebook followers), Dr. Billy DeMoss (20,000 Facebook followers), and Dr. Eric Berg (472,000 YouTube subscribers) giving advice that goes beyond managing spinal issues. Both in their offices and on social media, chiropractors have adapted to a marketplace that's demanding more than just pain management: they extol the virtues of an "alkaline diet," tell you how to manage stress with detoxing, and wax scientific about the adrenal gland. [...] Chiropractic care, I'm sorry to say, is little more than the buffoonery of a 19th-century lunatic who derived most of his medical theory from seances. It has not evolved much since its creation. Chiropractic beliefs are dangerously far removed from mainstream medicine, and the vocation's practices have been linked to strokes, herniated discs, and even death. Chiropractors can't replace your doctor, and I'm amazed that they're still even allowed to practice. [...] Though some chiropractors are now making an effort to introduce evidence-based practices into their treatment, chiropractic as a whole hasn't evolved like other areas of medicine -- with hypotheses, experimentation, and peer review. Instead, it was birthed by a strange combination of hocus pocus, guesswork, and strongly held religious beliefs.
Home remedies (Score:2)
I do just fine with my foam roller and inversion table.
Re: (Score:2)
Paging DocRuby. DocRuby to the green phone please.
Where's /.'s resident chirotroller when we need him?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
I just use health packs. They cure everything, including demon fire injuries.
make you feel better (Score:5, Interesting)
Then I started massage therapy instead. I felt better, and it didn't hurt, either. Win-win.
Now I just go sit in the sauna. Just as effective, much cheaper. Win-win-win. All win for me.
Re: (Score:3)
Chiropractor helped my back problems a few times, during very acute pains (as in : walking, seating, climbing stairs and laying down are all extremely painful). It relieved 80% of the pain in a mere seconds. It's *not* placebo. I could hear my back and neck go "clack/clack/clack/clack/clack". It felt great after the initial schock of hearing very loud noises that sounded similar to movie sound effects when bad guys die from a neck-breaking move. Still, this treatment was needed if I wanted to stop this agon
Re: (Score:2)
Do some martial arts, Karate/Kung Fu/Wu Shu or Aikido or Brazilian Ju Jutsu or even Kyudo (Archery), or go to a Yoga class.
Of course you could start rowing or simply use a bicycle.
Re: (Score:3)
It's *not* placebo. I could hear my back and neck go "clack/clack/clack/clack/clack".
Those sounds are just explosive release of pockets of nitrogen gas, same as when you pop your fingers or other joints. The effect of chiropractic work on muscles is real, though, and can help quite a bit. But a masseuse can do the same, without the joint popping.
First red flag (Score:3)
But.
Mmmmm... your complimentary x-rays indicate we'll be needing to see you twice a week for three months to, ahem, straighten you out.
Not says WebMD (Score:2, Interesting)
http://www.webmd.com/hypertension-high-blood-pressure/news/20070316/chiropractic-cuts-blood-pressure#1
March 16, 2007 -- A special chiropractic adjustment can significantly lower high blood pressure, a placebo-controlled study suggests.
"This procedure has the effect of not one, but two blood-pressure medications given in combination," study leader George Bakris, MD, tells WebMD. "And it seems to be adverse-event free. We saw no side effects and no problems," adds Bakris, director of the University of Chicago
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You can not placebo or double blind study a physical therapy.
Unless you completely lie to the 'control group' and do some fake that has nothing to do with what you want to test.
If you dislocate your shoulder the practitioners are supposed to relocate it.
it does not matter if they are chiropractics, osteopaths, orthopedics or if I simply do it. Either the shoulder gets relocated, or it does not. How do you want to have a 'placebo' in that attempt? Or a control group?
Re: (Score:2)
"patients who underwent a sham chiropractic adjustment. Because patients can't feel the technique, they were unable to tell which group they were in."
Personally I would have just kicked the placebo group in the knee. There's your adjustment!
A compromise solution (Score:5, Interesting)
My GP is cross-trained to perform chiropractic adjustments.
Once, I was unable to straighten my back due to nerve entrapment and possibly bones actually not lining up; this may have to do with being rear-ended a while back, but that’s immaterial to the conversation.
A few agonizing back-rocking movements with a pillow and a fist, and two neck-twists, and I was physically capable of straightening without grinding bone against bone. Add a shot of some kind of potent muscle relaxant, and suddenly I’m capable of straightening my back.
Perhaps the best approach is to incorporate the evidence-based portions of chiropractic methods into a traditional clinical setting like my GP has done? I guess I’m suggesting that we don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater, pretty much. Sometimes the problem really is a subluxation, after all, even if they’re not responsible for the majority of human illness.
Re: (Score:2)
That is called a dislocation. It is something that the standard medical profession is trained to fix.
Alternative Medicine Vs. Chiropractors (Score:5, Insightful)
This article spends almost its entire length going on and on about things like alternative medicine, but almost nothing about the actual resolution of back pain, except with respect to children (which, the article acknowledges, is not something all chiropractors endorse).
I don't buy into any of the nonsense, and my chiropractor doesn't either, but he uses the Impulse tool which doesn't hurt when it makes adjustments and I leave feeling much better than when I arrived. Before making any adjustment, he massages the back muscle to loosen it up and prevent damage. He's given me exercises to strengthen my back muscles to help keep things in alignment--and they work to the point that I go back about once per year when I do something really stupid and throw something completely out of alignment. He specifically said in my first appointment that if I'm coming back twice a week for years, he's not done his job properly.
Several years ago when I popped my scapula out of place while stretching and pinched a nerve (8-9 on the pain scale, didn't sleep a wink that night), the chiropractor put it back in place and the sharp stab instantly became a dull ache that went away after a few days.
I fully accept the idea that there are con artists out there who do the things mentioned in this article. I do not accept that it is universal or that chiropractors are incapable of providing any benefit whatsoever.
Re: (Score:3)
except with respect to children (which, the article acknowledges, is not something all chiropractors endorse).
An ex-friend took her baby to a chiropractor for colic. Ex-friend.
I do not accept that it is universal or that chiropractors are incapable of providing any benefit whatsoever.
I've told this before, but I hurt my back carrying something heavy. For about 2 months straight, I'd take a doctor-prescribed Vicodin and Flexeril before bed, then sleep fine until about 3AM when I'd wake up crying because someone was shoving a rusty knife into my spine. I didn't get more than 4-5 hours of drugged rest per night the whole time, and I was going insane from the pain and sleep deprivation.
My dad suggested I try his chiropractor,
Re: (Score:3)
Temporary relief may be all the relief a person needs, if then they are able to relax, get some sleep, and again partake of the usual physical activities that keep them healthy. Then they get better on their own (usually).
I am convinced that the non-BS aspect of chiropractic practice is that there are many spinal reflexes (literally wiring of the neurons that automatically cause muscle reactions, e.g. if you step on a tack, you will start pulling your leg back before consciously deciding to do so) that can
Chiropractors = short term solution (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't pretend to know all the in and out of medicine but I have learned one very important thing: chiropractors make you feel better for a day but a physical therapist will help you fix that which is causing you pain. A physical therapist may have you do a certain exercise every morning or some jazz but it prevents you have having painful issues later that would send you crying to a chiropractor.
Re: (Score:2)
Bonus points if the chiro suggests stretches and exercises to help speed the process, and lifestyle changes that actually keep you from needing to come back until you revert to your old ways and injure yourself again.
If you're going to a chiropractor who isn't doing those things, you're being taken by quackery. The only reason I went back to the guy I started seeing last year is that I got a little overconfident an
Re: (Score:2)
In Europe Chiropractics is a 3 years university course or 'healing practitioner course', and they learn (have to) all the stuff a physical therapist has to learn, too.
And without a government regulated certification (medical doctor with chiropractic education, healing practitioner etc.) it is illegal to practice.
They suck, but so do alternatives (Score:2)
They may be mostly hokey, but so are the alternatives. There's often no quick universal fixes for back problems, period. But the back is kind of like TV reception on old-fashioned sets (and sometimes cellphones): the weather, time-of-day, antenna position, and position and quantity of viewers can significantly affect the reception.
Experimenting by moving the antenna, furniture, and viewers around can at least temporarily fix TV reception. We called it the "fix-it dance" and "air Twister" back in the day. (
quack smell (Score:2)
Just like code smells, there are quack smells, and with chiropractors your quack smell needs to be on high alert.
I've had one who was outright incompetent, and another who was scamming for expensive x-rays to diagnose a neck shape 90% of the modern population has. The three hot chicks at reception was my first clue (they supervise a very nice neck-therapy gym). Singapore Airlines does not hire younger.
The gym was free for a while after your first visit. I noticed the Chiclets receiving "engagement" coach
If only "real" medicine were not so expensive (Score:2)
I know people who go to chiropractors because it is treatment they can afford. Regular doctors might get better result if you throw enough time and money at the problem but if your budget maxes out before you get any effective treatment, what are you left with?
Where are these Witchdoctor Chiropractors? (Score:2, Interesting)
I constantly see articles like this on the internet decrying the the evil unscientific ways of chiropractors, but I have never encountered in in the real world. This is despite having many friends and family members that have seen many different chiropractors in multiple states. Some that work with large practices, others that look like old hippies working part time out of their home. Yet not of them, not one, has claimed to cure anything other than skeletal/muscular problems like chronic back pain, bad pos
Re: (Score:2)
Conventional mediicne started the same way. (Score:3)
As a bunch of " hocus pocus, guesswork, and strongly held religious beliefs." Aside from things like humor theory, astrology and alchemical theories were freely mixed into medieval and Renaissance medicine. For centuries there was little reason not to prefer alternative medicinal theories to academic medicine.
But the fact that conventional medical training was done at great academic centers gave it a long term advantage. As empiricism became the basis of scientific inquiry, medicine adopted it too. Medical empiricism has never been quite so robust as scientific empiricism, but by 1900 you were probably better off with a medical doctor than with the village herbalist, faith healer, or random quack. A hundred years earlier that'd have been a dubious proposition.
Re: (Score:2)
Medical empiricism has never been quite so robust as scientific empiricism, but by 1900 you were probably better off with a medical doctor than with the village herbalist, faith healer, or random quack.
Why the year 1900 specifically? Just curious..
Re: (Score:2)
That's around the time that the average physician stopped believing in Vapors, for example.
Wikipedia lists 1880 as the date of adoption of germ theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
1900 is basically the beginning of modern medicine from a patient perspective.
I call 'em Quackopactors (Score:2)
Chiropracters vary in quality, just like ... (Score:2)
... anything else. That it is an old tradition only has to do with the fact that knowlege about the skeleton and the muscular body is easy to come by simply by looking at it and pocking around. British Chiropracters are know to have a solid anatomical and related medical knowlege and there are methods know that actually are a few hundred years old that work.
That there also is a lot of foo-foo wah-wah and homeopathy nonsense around with Chiropracters is a problem, but manual therapy itself isn't pure non-sen
Lots of B.S. and some useful offerings, IMO (Score:4, Interesting)
One of my best friends decided to become a chiropractor, years ago -- so I got to learn a fair bit about that whole process and the challenges it presented.
First off? Yeah, it's true. A whole lot of people become a chiropractor because they're looking for a profession they can make a lot of money in, without all the studying required for a genuine medical degree. This isn't unlike a lot of people who go into dentistry though, either. In other words, it's not really a reason to write the whole field off as useless. It just means you've got to navigate the "minefield" of people who care more about buying their next luxury car or vacation home than your health.
But the other issue is, chiropractors do generally struggle to get well established. The guys with the big practices running ads on the radio constantly are the few that the rest of them aspire to be someday. People like my buddy started out genuinely wanting to help people manage their pain without resorting to getting all doped up on pain medications. That's, IMO, pretty legitimate. Problem is -- that doesn't quite pay the bills. His chiropractic college he graduated from put him almost 6 figures in student loan debt, and then he had to take out the small business loan for his own office and equipment. What usually happens is the struggling chiro says, "You know.... I could really use something to pad my revenue and pay the rent on this place. I know this lady who does acupuncture who needs an office to work out of....", or "Nobody ever got hurt taking a few essential vitamins and minerals. I should start selling some of these on the side." Before long, their practice is hawking all sorts of nonsense alternative medicine (because there's a demand for that from those who believe in it), and it's all justifiable if you view it as the power of the placebo effect and state of mind playing a role in how healthy you feel.
I think some people truly do get benefit from chiropractors, and that's a big reason insurance companies will still pay out for visits to them after car accidents. If it was pure quackery, they would have refused to give them a dime long ago. I used to know a gal, for example, who had some serious back problems. On a good day, she'd be up walking or running about like nothing was wrong at all. But she had occasional situations where her back would literally seize up, and she couldn't straighten herself back up after bending over, or found she couldn't get up out of bed in the morning. Traditional doctors didn't have a whole lot to offer her, besides highly addictive pain pills.They put her on disability so she got her monthly payment from SSI and didn't have to work. But really, that whole thing was a rather sad "solution". (90% of the time, she was as mobile as anyone else. There had to be a way she could hold down a job despite her issues.) She figured out that regular visits to a chiropractor really helped loosen up tight back muscles and certain adjustments gave her temporary pain relief and less likelihood of her back totally freezing up on her. She couldn't afford to go often, but did so when she could get a deal from a chiropractor who took pity on her situation.
Chiropracty vs chiropractic (Score:2)
The blurb up top states "... chiropractic as a whole hasn't evolved like other areas of medicine ..."
The proper term for the practice should be chiropracty. I don't know how "chiropractic" came about, but it is commonly used.
Get a TENS unit, get all the benefit. (Score:3)
One of the prime therapies that chiropractors do is using electrical stimulation. You end up feeling better, at least for a while. You can buy cheap "tens" units, google for "tens unit" cheap and they do the same thing, and you can use them while mobile, not just lying on your back. Make sure to get the electrode pads as well if you are in constant pain, but IMHO, ever house should have one, just like many other first-aid measures.
Re: (Score:2)
Fancy-Pants Hyperlink Underlining (Score:2)
Here are some other interesting styles:
https://tympanus.net/Developme... [tympanus.net]
https://tympanus.net/Developme... [tympanus.net]
Heh... (Score:2)
Allowed to practice? Dude, the first GOOP cult reunion just happened. Chiropractors will at least give you a rough spanking or massage, and try sell some snake oil or something. There are so many things worse regarding health and "alternative medicine" that I think it's pretty understandable why chiropractors are kinda overlooked. :P
Not that I'd fall for shit like that, but you know.
Meh... all medicine is quackery (Score:2)
But, after I ditched the first quack (Schwartz on Sepulveda), I found a pretty good one who helped me better understand my muscles and what is causing my pain. It is 50-50 on if I come away feeling better, and when I do massages most aren't really properly qualified to address my issues. I recommend him to my friends, and afterwards they are generally appreciative of the care given.
Th
What quack chiropractors are you all going to? (Score:2)
This author is a moron (Score:2)
Bear (Score:2)
Re: I call bullshit on the call of bullshit. (Score:5, Insightful)
They would get the same or better benefits from a professional masseuse, as demonstrated by the studies linked in the article, plus hundreds more. They also would have significantly less chance of death.
Re: I call bullshit on the call of bullshit. (Score:5, Insightful)
It depends on what the issue is. Yes, there are a lot of Chiropractors who indulge in all kinds of quackery. But Chiropractors are licensed to take X-rays and diagnose issues with the back that don't require surgery. People "throw their back out" doing something they shouldn't have done, and injure their back in such a way that can be solved by a chiropractic adjustment. Think of the equivalent of a jammed finger or dislocated shoulder as one example. Perhaps something like that may solve itself eventually, or perhaps a masseuse might be able to deal with it, but masseuses don't have anywhere near the training a Chiropractor has, and are typically not trained for non muscle related injuries (and masseuse/massage therapy training is significantly more varied across the states than that required for a licensed Chiropractor), whereas a Chiropractor can handle both muscle and non muscle related issues.
A competent Chiropractor can take an X-ray and will refer you to a doctor if there is an injury that is not suitable for their skills, e.g. surgery is required. But back surgery should be the absolute last resort for fixing a back problem. You should always get a second or even third opinion before having back surgery.
I'd avoid any Chiropractor that wants you to visit on an ongoing basis. If that is the case, you would be right in that a masseuse would be a better and cheaper alternative. I have a Chiropractor who is willing to deal with a specific issue and solve it and that's it. I've visited him for a total of 3 sessions for two different back problems in the last 10 years. There's nothing temporary about the relief I got.
Re: I call bullshit on the call of bullshit. (Score:2)
The masseuse and massage therapist are different. The latter get mad when you call them the former. However, the former will give you a happy ending and the latter will not. Confusing the two will probably get you arrested.
Re: (Score:2)
LOL Those are the ones with certification and education. Anyone can be a masseuse. ;-)
Re: I call bullshit on the call of bullshit. (Score:4, Insightful)
An osteopath will be able to recommend all sorts of treatments. Those trained in therapeutic massage and physical therapy have just as much training. There are the true believer chiropractors ("straights") on one end who should be avoided, and those on the other extreme that are basically using modern medical techniques but who call themselves chiropractors because so much of America is convinced that "chiropractor" means "back doctor".
Re: (Score:2)
basically using modern medical techniques but who call themselves chiropractors because so much of America is convinced that "chiropractor" means "back doctor".
Sounds like a priest who does not believe in God in the literal sense, but likes the ceremony.
Re: (Score:3)
More common than you'd think - there's a support group for atheist priests. No atheist deliberately becomes a priest, but there are many priests that lose their faith and remain stuck in the profession because it's the only field that hold qualifications and experience in. So they do what many nonbelievers in highly religious communities do: Fake it.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: I call bullshit on the call of bullshit. (Score:5, Insightful)
One thing that a good chiropractor will do for you that a massage therapist typically won't (in my experience) is provide wellness counseling in the form of stretches and exercises you can do to speed along the healing process and behavioral changes to keep the pain away once it's gone. My experience has borne out that the pain will go away if I don't do the stretches and exercises or incorporate any of the behavioral changes; but, it does take longer without the stretches and exercises; and it's only as permanent as my willingness to adopt the behavioral changes.
The danger comes from incorporating chiropractic care with other forms of "alt medicine", rather than using it as an additional form of treatment on top of proper medical care. Yes, a lot of people do this, and a lot of chiropractors not only allow, but encourage, them to do so. That's how people die under a chiropractor's care.
At the end of the day, it's up to each and every one of us to use a little bit of common sense every once in a while and realize that you probably can't trust the guy who tells you to take a couple drops of some homeopathic "tincture" to get the vibrations from whatever was at one point in that water, and you should probably seek care from someone who hasn't jumped off the deep end.
Unfortunately, my experience is that most chiropractors have done just that, and it makes it difficult, if not dangerous, to try and find a good one.
Re: I call bullshit on the call of bullshit. (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
She's been to doctors who referred her to massage therapists who referred her to dentists who referred her to orthopedic surgeons who said the only way to fix her problem is to break and realign her jaw, but they'd only do so under the advice of a dentist; and it was the dentist who referred her t
Re:I call bullshit on the call of bullshit. (Score:5, Insightful)
Just ask anyone who could barely walk into the Chiropractor's office, and walk out pain-free with a smile.
Chiropractors may be effective at giving temporary relief for back pain, so if you just want the pain to go away for a few days they may be a good solution. But they likely aren't fixing the underlying problem, and there is no evidence or plausible mechanism for fixing your digestion and curing cancer by popping your back.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Anecdotes are not data, etc...
However I screwed my back up something awful by pulling a sledge load across a floor - exactly what you NEVER should do - and a chiropractor had me walking and feeling not nearly as painful after one visit. After 3 visits I was "cured". That was 12 years ago, been fine ever since.
So it worked for me. However, as you point out nobody should be expecting them to cure cancer or diabetes or acne or any bullshit like that.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
There is evidence that chiropractic techniques may help with some back pain issues. But probably more important is that many chiropractors aren't the true believers and will also use modern medical techniques (ice packs, massage, etc). Some studies have shown that even effective chiropractic treatments to be no better than conventional treatments, but if the chiropractor is cheaper maybe consider it.
Like many alternative medicines, it's generally safe so it won't cause harm if used sparingly. Go for a vi
Re: (Score:2)
Of course, it's impossible to prove that the treatment did nothing for you and you would have got better on your own, but hey, why not?
Not really. I'm dealing with a "control" scenario right now.
Every few years, I'll do something that will cause me to pinch a nerve in my neck (lower cervical/upper thoracic) It can be mild, like a pain when moving my arm in a certain way, or severe where I can't turn my head more than 10 degrees to one side. If I wait for it to go away on its own, it can take weeks. If I go to the chiropractor, partial relief (reduced pain, increased mobility) is immediate, and full relief happens in 2-3 days. It may o
Re:I call bullshit on the call of bullshit. (Score:5, Insightful)
The mainstream medical equivalent is to prescribe a dozen opiate pills to achieve the same result, but with significant downsides. Which is bullshit?
Re: I call bullshit on the call of bullshit. (Score:4, Insightful)
Bullshit.
My Dr gave me a referral to a physical therapist that actually helped correct the problem.
Next you are going to tell us the magic crystals and diterary bullshit that chiropractors deal in works too, right?
Re: (Score:2)
My chiropractor works with a GP, a physical therapist, and an RN.
Chiropractic medicine is at least as effective as mainstream medicine at treating lower back pain.
This doesn't mean that it works for treating cancer or whatever else the quacks peddle.
Look at what the research says:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/c... [www.nhs.uk]
Re: (Score:3)
Bullshit.
My Dr gave me a referral to a physical therapist that actually helped correct the problem.
So did mine, however I still ended up needing a chiropractor.
Next you are going to tell us the magic crystals and diterary bullshit that chiropractors deal in works too, right?
I think when you find the right chiropractor that sticks with skilled mechanical movement of the joints in the body I can't move, they are a blessing you will thank for the relief. I will indulge your patience so I can explain.
I've been training martial arts for around 30 years and occasionally competed to test myself. Mainly muay Thai and Jui Jitsu are my favorites because they are effective. I also love playing sports like football, hockey, cli
Re: (Score:2)
"Chiropractor" is not the latin term for "back doctor". They're not the same thing as physical therapists or osteopaths. The origin of chiropractic was about being able to affect general health through the spine - they did not even want to be called doctors so that they would not be accused of practicing medicine without a license.
Some of the first oppositions to vaccination came from chiropractors by the way.
Re: (Score:2)
That is as relevant as talking about Freud to discredit a modern therapist.
No, chiropractors aren't back doctors; they're joint alignment specialists.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: I call bullshit on the call of bullshit. (Score:4)
There's a lot of overlap between a good chiropractor and a physical therapist. They both use many of the same techniques (stretching, massage, exercises, etc. to stop and eventually reverse certain types of injuries).
There are also significant differences, of course. Physical therapists cover a broader range of issues, including things like learning how to walk again after a stroke. But as a result, they're also typically a lot more expensive, so for minor, chronic injuries (e.g. "programmers' back"), a chiropractor is generally a better choice.
Re: (Score:3)
Dude, change the font of your website, it's a crime against humanity.
Re: (Score:2)
The mainstream medical equivalent is to prescribe a dozen opiate pills to achieve the same result, but with significant downsides. Which is bullshit?
False dichotomy. Why can't both be bullshit?
Re:I call bullshit on the call of bullshit. (Score:4, Interesting)
I see it as a spectrum with increasing training, and a difference in focus - physical therapists, chiropractors, osteopaths, MDs (although the OD/MD distinction has lessened over time). There are physical maladies which can be helped with physical manipulation in lieu of drugs or invasive surgery, which is what MDs tend to push. The article was written by someone with a biased agenda.
Re:I call bullshit on the call of bullshit. (Score:5, Insightful)
The history of chiropractic was not founded in medicine. They rejected germ theory and believed that general health could be affected by spinal adjustments. That's the foundation of the philosophy, it is not "fringe" except that it has become a minority view. It would be better I think if a lot of modern chiropractors stopped using the name, then the patients could more easily determine who's the quack and who just uses the name for marketing purposes because so many patients don't know the history.
(just like homeopaths, they have a lot of patients who don't know the history, they just see the "all natural ingredients" part and assume it must be good)
Re: (Score:2)
So it's different than barbers using leeches to remove the ill humors? You say that as if it's a good thing.
Re: (Score:2)
Modern doctors do not call themselves barbers.
Re: (Score:3)
It doesn't matter what somebody calls themselves, it matters what they're doing. That's why the "origins attack" is so blatantly stupid. It is like doubting gravity because Newton engaged in alchemy.
Re: (Score:2)
You would have a point if chiropractors as a majority repudiated their hokum origins and did not continue perpetuating them.
Re: (Score:2)
If they never said it, they aren't the ones you're talking about and they have nothing to repudiate. And that makes it your hokum, not theirs.
Re: I call bullshit on the call of bullshit. (Score:2)
Meh... Opiates make you not care about trivial things like pain. If you still care about the pain, you haven't taken enough. They don't take pain away, you just don't care about it. They are kinda awesome like that.
Re: (Score:2)
Your claim is ignorant, irresponsible, and wrong.
Re: (Score:2)
When I was in the ER with a slipped disc, they gave me a shot of Dilaudid straight to the nerve and it did nothing for the pain. It didn't even do that good of a job making me not care about the pain, but it did make me loopy as fuck. Norco didn't help with the pain, either; nor did Tramadol, Hydrocodone, or Vicodin.
I suppose I could try Heroine, right?
Nah, I'm good, I've tried enough to know that shit doesn't work for me.
Re: (Score:2)
Hmm, mainstream medical equivalent is physical or massage therapy.
Re: (Score:2)
The mainstream medical equivalent is to prescribe a dozen opiate pills to achieve the same result
Not at all. The only time mainstream medical would prescribe opiate pills would be to relieve pain from an injury that would self heal which is the vast majority of muscular related injuries that a person is likely to experience in their life.
For improved healing speed and effect the mainstream medical world would refer you to phyiso, active, or manual therapy, or for a hospital visit.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Went through a period of three years of serious back problems in my early 20's. I was just about dragging one leg behind me 25 days a month. I've got a pretty high pain threshold but the pain was so intense that there were times I considered suicide. On the worst days, getting out of bed as an epic struggle. Traditional doctors told me there didn't really seem to be anything wrong with me and just kept writing me scripts for painkillers. That left me with a raging addiction and the doctors eventually
Re: (Score:2)
Glad to hear you beat it, though. I've seen what those addictions do to people, as well as their friends and families.
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, I can sometimes fix my own digestive issues by working my own back through yoga. I don't see why a chiropractor couldn't do that for someone. But curing cancer, agreed. That's not very likely.
The fact is that the back is a bit of a mystery to conventional medicine as well. It turns out most of those MRI signs of back pain appear equally frequently in people who report never having back pain. Back surgery is still a bit hit or miss with potentially devastating consequences for failure. The constan
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't know about the diets they extol, or any other homeopathic remedies they might have,
It's in the summary, so you should. And it is clearly bullshit on the order of anti-vax conspiracy theories or "foodbabe" bullshit. Because why stick to one type of bullshit if you're already a professional bullshitter?
Just ask anyone who could barely walk into the Chiropractor's office, and walk out pain-free with a smile....I know people who've been really happy after their "adjustments."
Good, but that's anecdotal like you can easily find for qigong or crystals. Actual evidence suggests very slight help for a small number of problems. [nih.gov] If the people who were barely walking in had chronic lower back pain and were happy and pain free afterward, it was in their head, and they'd b
Re: (Score:2)
Exactly, I am one of them. I used to have chronic back pain. Eventually I got to a point when I could barely sit on a chair for 10 minutes. So I went to see a chiropractor.
He guessed scoliosis and checked with an x-ray. I got significantly better on day one. I went there about three times a week for about a month. I still go every month or so.
Never had back pain anywhere near I used to have for 10 years before.
Am I imagining it? I really don't think so.
Are other treatment just as effective or better? Maybe.
Re: I call bullshit on the call of bullshit. (Score:2)
And yet a real physical therapist gets better results with less visits for a lower cost (when you factor in the fact they can actually fix problems.)
Re: (Score:2)
True, you can walk out with a smile. However an osteopath will do the same thing, or a good therapeutic massage. The original chiropractic belief is that disease derives from a misaligned spine. This has toned down somewhat but it still has some of the same core beliefs in the true believer chiropracters. Though they tend to focus on back pain where there are indeed results, you can still find those who think it will help relieve asthma for instance. It is still "alternative medicine" though, just like ac
Re: I call bullshit on the call of bullshit. (Score:3, Interesting)
Agreed.
I was very skeptical of chiropractors until I needed one. In grad school I would walk several miles to and from campus every day and somehow kept spraining the inside of my ankle. I saw multiple GPs, PT specialists, orthopedists, etc At the time grad students got free health insurance and I was referred to the PhD/MDs that were part of the med school on campus who were supposedly some of the best in their fields. I'd be fine for a week or two and then I'd be back on the crutches. Finally my wife s
Re: (Score:2)
Exactly, it is all straw man bullshit pretending that chiropractors are witch doctors, when all of the chiropractors that I've visited were only offering to straighten my spine, something that relieves the pain in about 25% of people.
Real chiropractors in your community don't claim to replace doctors or treat other conditions.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
If the calibre of you argument is, "ask the people it helped," then it is just as easily refuted by, "ask the people it has hurt and/or killed." There's plenty of those.
The same can be said of western medicine, as well. Not everything works for everyone. Of course, it all comes down to treating the right problem with the right treatment; you don't fix a slipped disc with Vicodin just like you don't cure cancer by cracking a few joints in your back. Any doctor who prescribes Vicodin for a slipped disc is a quack, just as any chiropractor who claims they can cure cancer is a wacko.
Re: but but but (Score:2)
Ha ha, had to look that one up!
Re: they fixed me. (Score:2)
20+ yrs ago - for a week my back hurt so bad I could hardly stand, riding a motorcycle a chore. I went to a chiropractor.
He put me sideways and tried to bend or bow my back. third try I farted and my back fell into place; hasn't been a problem since.
but I did take a skeptical look at the gadget with flashing LED's that he first ran over my body.
Re: (Score:2)
If acupuncture's the benchmark here, then chiropractors are in trouble...
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com... [wiley.com]
Does chiropractic manipulation also work on rubber limbs?
http://theness.com/neurologica... [theness.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Crystals? What the heck kind of chiropractor are you going to?
Re: (Score:2)
Acupuncture works pretty well on me, anyway. It makes the muscle jump, and it slides back into place. Immediate pain relief, which mixed with exercises makes the pain permanently go away.
Is it better than a placebo? I don't know. But at the very least, it is a very good placebo. And placebos are extremely effective!
I don't get why modern medicine doesn't optimize placebos. The test for new medicines is absolutely stupid. Medicine does not have to beat a placebo. All medicines should work to maximize
Re: (Score:2)
Back cracking triggers an endorphin release that can reduce the pain involved with any disease. I doubt they're recommending a chiropractor in lieu of an oncologist, but rather in addition to one, for much the same reason that they would probably point you to medical marijuana places if you ask.
Re: (Score:2)
Steamy goop apparently.
Re: (Score:2)