Mysterious Star Pulses May Be Alien Signals, Study Claims (iop.org) 128
"Strange pulses of cosmic light might be signals from hundreds of different alien civilizations -- or just the latest false alarm in the tortuous search for E.T.," reports Space.com. Slashdot reader Okian Warrior shares this excerpt from the paper which argues that the signals "cannot be caused by instrumental or data analysis effects."
Finally, we consider the possibility, predicted in a previous published paper, that the signals are caused by light pulses generated by extraterrestrial intelligence (ETI) to makes us aware of their existence. We find that the detected signals have exactly the shape of an ETI signal predicted in the previous publication and are therefore in agreement with this hypothesis. The fact that they are only found in a very small fraction of stars within a narrow spectral range centered near the spectral type of the Sun is also in agreement with the ETI hypothesis.
The researchers add that "at this stage, this hypothesis needs to be confirmed with further work," and Seth Shostak, a senior astronomer at SETI, tells Space.com that "If I were a betting guy, I'd bet this is an artifact of the way they processed their data."
The researchers add that "at this stage, this hypothesis needs to be confirmed with further work," and Seth Shostak, a senior astronomer at SETI, tells Space.com that "If I were a betting guy, I'd bet this is an artifact of the way they processed their data."
Wonderful! (Score:5, Insightful)
It's wonderful when science steps out into the fringe. Sometimes they end up being right or discover something useful unrelated to their initial inquiry.
I've no idea whether they are right this time. But this phenomenon will be studied heavily. And we'll learn more. Pure research, even that which seems obtuse, often provides more knowledge when it's conclusions are wrong. Even when Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann failed to produce fusion using a palladium lattice- there was knowledge gained.
Though I hope these researchers are right. The SETI question has large potential for positive change in society in general.
Re:Wonderful! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: Wonderful! (Score:5, Insightful)
You have no idea what a society without religion would look like.
I doubt if ETL would have much negative effect on religion. I know plenty of religious people, and they are MORE likely to believe in aliens than the non-religious people that I know. Mormonism includes an affirmative belief in life on other planets. Back in the late 1800s, it was widely believed that there were canals on Mars, and far more people believed in ETL than believe today. I was not used as an effective argument against religion.
Re: (Score:2)
I doubt if ETL would have much negative effect on religion. I know plenty of religious people, and they are MORE likely to believe in aliens than the non-religious people that I know.
Not only that, but most religions have been dealing with finding new groups of "unknown people" for centuries. Finding native American folks in the "New World" in the 15th and 16th centuries who had never heard of Jesus or the Christian God didn't cause Jesuit missionaries to say, "Oh, maybe there is no God!?! Shouldn't we have known of these people? Why have they not heard of God?"
No -- far from it. Instead, it was viewed as an OPPORTUNITY. Get more people "into the fold." Does anyone think it woul
Re: (Score:3)
Unfortunately, ET will probably destroy the Earth to stop us from sending more Jehovah's Witnesses to their door.
Mormonism and ETL (Score:2)
You have no idea what a society without religion would look like.
I doubt if ETL would have much negative effect on religion. I know plenty of religious people, and they are MORE likely to believe in aliens than the non-religious people that I know. Mormonism includes an affirmative belief in life on other planets. Back in the late 1800s, it was widely believed that there were canals on Mars, and far more people believed in ETL than believe today. I was not used as an effective argument against religion.
I am Mormon; my family joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the 1830s. There is no official declaration of life on other planets within our solar system, although it was (eg. back in the 1800s) widely believed that the moon had a Quaker-like society. I never heard speculations of civilization on Mars. Officially, we are taught that the star Kolob is the closest to the abode of God, but Kolob has not been identified as any of the stars identified by science. We are also taught that Jesus
Heaven did Both (Score:2, Insightful)
Might SETI 'change society'? For thousands of years we believed there was an ideal extraterrestrial community caled 'Heaven' - did that help us stop wars? Do those who still believe abstain from genocide? Would any other cosmic certainty improve things?
The idea of heaven helped and hurt, as it and its associated ideas still do.
Fundamentally it let one group of people control another group of people, and the people in power caused a lot of harm and backwards-thinking. But they also found a way to discourage people from acting cruel to one another and to encourage those people to conform to certain norms and even to be kind, on promise of heaven and threat of hell.
The norms they chose were not all the right ones, and because of the hierarchical structure an
Re: (Score:2)
And some people apparently think Hillary Clinton is Satan. How's that for religious leadership?
Re:Wonderful! (Score:4, Insightful)
Might SETI 'change society'? For thousands of years we believed there was an ideal extraterrestrial community caled 'Heaven' - did that help us stop wars? Do those who still believe abstain from genocide? Would any other cosmic certainty improve things?
Because this time it would be real and the majority of people would know deep down it was true, regardless of what their religion said. Some might choose to ignore it or disbelieve, but most would accept it as a fact.
A lot of people who claim to believe in god don't really believe in god. But I bet most people would believe in SETI signals if they were well-verified and a majority of scientists who understood this stuff agreed and supported the findings.
That said, I don't think it would necessarily reform society, but it might shift the mindset considerably in some areas. It wouldn't stop murder or genocide or wars, but it might help spark more self-awareness in people in general, and that's the start of empathy, cooperation, etc. It would also gives all the cranks an "other" to hate that wasn't a human person or group.
Re:Wonderful! (Score:4, Insightful)
A nice collection of thoughts but I would posit the vast majority of humans Wouldn't Give A Damn. It won't help them pay for food or shelter. It won't help with their genocidal next door neighbors. They would be light years away with no FTL capability (that we've been able to discern).
The major religions that traditionally have espoused Earth as the Only Place God Likes have long figured out contingency plans for discovery of Alien life.
It certainly would help with the circulation numbers of The Daily News and National Enquirer and would spark all sorts of new YouTube videos and the like. But most people would still worry about whether or not the Cubs will win the World Series.
Re:Wonderful! (Score:4, Interesting)
Oh, really? Do tell.
From the Books and Media [vofoundation.org] section of the Vatican Observatory Foundation's website:
"Intelligent Life in the Universe: Catholic belief and the search for extraterrestrial life", Br. Guy Consolmagno, SJ
Originally published by the Catholic Truth Society in London, and long out of print, this pamphlet outlines what we know about the search for intelligent life, both how we search and why we search, and what it can mean for Catholics and our understanding of our faith.
Download Now [vofoundation.org] (1.5MB PDF) Suggested Donation $5.00
Re: (Score:2)
Heck, in some places in the US you can substitute evolution.
Re: (Score:2)
Because this time it would be real
Well... unless Elon is correct. In that case, the traditional notion of "God" would probably be closer to the truth.
Re: (Score:3)
I find it interesting that many people turned this into a theological conversation.
To me at least, theology was not the point.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
> The SETI question has large potential for positive change in society in general.
If by "potential" you mean where we learn that governments have covered up the truth for decades, that humans were genetically engineered, that we don't own the dam planet, that we aren't the sharpest tool in the galaxy by a long shot, that some advanced species treat as us mere animals and a delicacy, that every religion is man made, that our mathematics is extremely linear, that our politics is a complete and total joke,
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Wow. That was shockingly incoherent. Congratulations.
Re: (Score:2)
You forgot Theatan and Xenu... At least make the stream of insanity complete.
Re: (Score:2)
> The SETI question has large potential for positive change in society in general.
If by "potential" you mean where we learn that governments have covered up the truth for decades, that humans were genetically engineered, that we don't own the dam planet, that we aren't the sharpest tool in the galaxy by a long shot, that some advanced species treat as us mere animals and a delicacy, that every religion is man made, that our mathematics is extremely linear, that our politics is a complete and total joke, that our science is primitive (at best), that almost everyone has a false belief that "There is never enough", and that we STILL haven't figured out how to get along on a planet without money when animals have done this for millions of years, then OK.
Oh wait, you mean that cloaking, FTL, teleportation, and time travel is possible, the discovery that consciousness IS the underlying energy, that there are 6 fundamental forces, that we can heal every disease given the plant variety we have, that there are "levels" to consciousness, that white holes recycle the energy from black holes, that our experiments with high energy physics is damaging our planet, that the physical reality is only one sub-set, that money will be come completely valueless due to zero point energy, that creativity is the greatest gift that we can offer, etc., then yeah, we'll learn all that good stuff too.
--
First Contact is coming ~2024. Are you ready for a new cosmic paradigm?
No. I don't mean any of that. Nor do I endorse those views.
Re: (Score:2)
"we STILL haven't figured out how to get along on a planet without money when animals have done this for millions of years"
We got along fine without money up until the last few thousand years. And last I saw, animals kill and eat each other all the time. We only do it some of the time.
Re: (Score:2)
Mysterious ASCII characters may be (Score:2, Funny)
Anonymous Coward getting a first post, study claims.
Assuming copyright has expired (Score:3)
Hopefully it is instructions for medicine to live forever and a billion years of shows to watch.
If just one, the latter please.
Re: (Score:3)
Careful what you wish for. They might be Vogons.
You mean this? [wikia.com]
It could be worse. [wikia.com]
In fact, it could be far worse, and right here at home. [wikia.com]
Re: (Score:2)
It's not. They decoded it... All it says is....
"bring back Firefly"
learn from your planet and stay away! (Score:5, Funny)
learn from your planet and get excited! (Score:2)
For once we should learn from our planet. If you are in a vast ocean of space and see a faint light it is ... Anglerfish - run!
For once we should learn from our planet. If you are in a vast ocean of space and see a faint light it is ... Firefly - mate!
Re: (Score:2)
On the other hand: Why would they? (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Given that human beings have on several occasions beamed out "Hello" signals to points in the galaxy that we think might harbour life, it doesn't seem far fetched that a highly advanced alien civilisation would do the same...
Re: (Score:2)
Except we did it once. This means that aliens spread across a galaxy and basically made a bunch of stars rickroll us for well over 100 years.
If our scientists were actually interested in SETI the signal would be broadcast at insane levels and gain 24/7/365 for at least 1000 years.
they sent a message once in a tightly beamed direction at a low power. the chances of someone looking for it and knowing WHEN to look for it receiving it are 10000000000 to 1. for someone not ready to receive it to even notice?
Re: (Score:2)
s/ scientists/ politicians/
Scientists can be as interested as they want in $SOMETHING$, but if no one will pay for it, it ain't going to happen.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Aliens are going to be NOTHING like us.
We don't know that. So far, we've got one example - carbon-based life that inhabits a planet orbiting a star of a certain type.
It's not unreasonable - at the moment - to suppose that other life might be more similar to us, and have similar requirements/prerequesites, than it is different.
We've been here before (Score:4, Informative)
Every 5 or 10 years someone discovers some signal which they think maybe could be possibly be ET. Then it either turns out to be a some new stellar physics or interference from earth. IIRC one ET "discovery" turned out to be the microwave oven in the kitchen of the science centre.
Re: (Score:1)
It's instrumental or data analysis effects (Score:5, Informative)
> the paper which argues that the signals "cannot be caused by instrumental or data analysis effects."
It can. Their methodology is completely full of holes and willfully insufficiently paranoid considering what they're claiming.
Go read the PDF - it's hard to say 100% without having the original data, but it sure looks like they're torturing the data till it confesses what they want - what they predicted in their previous paper.
Hell, there might even be a signal, by all means keep looking harder. But when you jump right to History Channel 'I Don't Know - Therefore Aliens.' And then add 'HUNDREDS of Aliens Civilizations' on such tenuous evidence you start the race with a self-inflicted foot wound.
Re: (Score:1)
Ac to avoid undoing mods.
After reading the paper it does seem that he is simply looking for "low probability" patterns in sub-sets of the data, which is guaranteed to find something if the dataset is large enough. His list of non-alien causes is too short and incomplete. The most obvious missing cause is "our particular G0 star is unusual".
Re: (Score:2)
Which, considering that almost every natural phenomenon has multiple ways of being measured, almost al of which have significant variance, is likely to be true for almost every natural phenomenon. Any particular specimen is likely to be unusual in some way.
Which anyone who has tried to identify a fossil (part of my day job) or a tree, or a piece of pond-slime (my activity precisely one email ago) will know already.
The basic assumption.. (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
I think the question should really be, "Is there an evolutionary bias towards extinction?".
Re: (Score:3)
The conclusion that alien life exists does not depend on any presumption of an evolutionary bias towards intelligence. The logic by those that would suggest alien life is certain to exist seem to go as follows: We, as an example of intelligent life, exist, so that means that there must be some non-zero probability for intelligent life to come exist in the universe. Given the non-zero probability for the occurrence of intelligent life, it is utterly incongruous that given the sheer vastness of the univer
Re: (Score:2)
However, there is still an unproven assumption in the above logic. Finding it is left as an exercise for the reader.
Oo, ooh, can I play? Is it here?
Given the non-zero probability for the occurrence of intelligent life, it is utterly incongruous that given the sheer vastness of the universe the likelihood of such life occurring elsewhere in the cosmos should not approach mathematical certainty. Therefore, intelligent life must almost certainly exist elsewhere.
Is it that "sheer vastness" is not an argument, and ultimately we're comparing one number -- p(intelligent live evolves on random planet around random star) -- to another number (planets in universe), and orders of magnitude might actually matter??
This argument can be similarly used to argue for the existence of ANYTHING repeated in the universe. E.g.:
"Given the non-zero probability for the occurrence of humans, it is utterly incongruous that given the sheer vastness of
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Consider some of the most intelligent species on Earth: primates, dolphins, birds, elephants, octopuses. That's a very diverse group. That suggests that evolution has a bias to evolving intelligence in different forms, at least on Earth. Capability of tool use is another matter, but both birds and primates have shown some.
Re: (Score:1)
Consider some of the most intelligent species on Earth: primates, dolphins, birds, elephants, octopuses. That's a very diverse group. That suggests that evolution has a bias to evolving intelligence in different forms, at least on Earth. Capability of tool use is another matter, but both birds and primates have shown some.
Raw intelligence isn't everything though, you also need a social structure which facilitates teaching. Sure we have the intellectual capacity to think big thoughts, but its our social structure which allows us to retain knowledge and build upon it over time.
Re: (Score:2)
Lack of social structure is a huge problem for octopuses, but elephants for example have pretty advanced social interactions and have been shown to pass on knowledge.
Re: The basic assumption.. (Score:2)
It's an answer to a question.. (Score:4, Funny)
The signal decodes as one repeating byte, 101010. Now to find out exactly what the question was...
Re: (Score:2)
Fourier transforms (Score:2)
The IOP abstract mentions Fourier transforms revealed the signal pattern. Yup, it's amazing what they can reveal. [youtube.com]
Too impatient? Go to 5:30 in the video to see what I mean.
Unfortunately... (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe the aliens wear these (Score:2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
FWIW - how the Sloan observatory plays into this (Score:2)
From How the Universe works - season 1 - Galaxies: 25 min, 20 seconds into it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Please destroy us! (Score:1)
I keep praying for the aliens to come here and destroy mother earth! :D
I would laugh all the way to hell!
Space wall (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)
same with the USA presidential political polls
That depends on the poll. Professional pollsters tend to be accurate [xkcd.com]. Polls run by journalists tend to be inaccurate, partly because they are more interested in drama than accuracy, but also because they fail to properly account for bias. So when Hillary does well in a debate, and her numbers shoot up by 5%, journalists report that her support has surged. Professional pollsters understand that what is really happening is that her supporters feel upbeat, and are more likely to participate in surveys, whi
Re: (Score:2)
"Beer and tampons don't go together well. "
You have to soak the tampons in vodka first, everybody knows.that.
Obviously you're not a golfer... (Score:2)
So when Hillary does well in a debate, and her numbers shoot up by 5%, journalists report that her support has surged. Professional pollsters understand that what is really happening is that her supporters feel upbeat, and are more likely to participate in surveys, while Donald's supporters feel demoralized, and hang up the phone. So underlying support for the candidates barely budged, it is just that the sampling bias shifted.
If there only were a way to control for that... like asking upfront "Are you an X supporter, and if so, how long have you been one?", before asking about the debate results - and then excluding those "upbeat supporters" from the comparison.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that you are not a "professional pollster" either.
Among other things... Like the way you're also probably not a professional fox. [wikipedia.org]
Though you did an AMAZING job there, arguing that there is actually no correlation between "doing w
Re: (Score:2)
Only if it is an 8 bit binary number.
http://www.politics1.com/p2016... [politics1.com]