Bee Venom Has "Botox-Like Effect," Is Worth 7 Times As Much As Gold 248
dryriver writes "The BBC reports that cosmetic products using bee venom as an ingredient are a new 'hot seller' in the cosmetics market. Bee venom is said to have an effect on female skin similar to Botox injections, tightening the skin and making wrinkles and other signs of aging appear less pronounced than before. Unlike Botox, however, bee venom does not need to be injected, and can be absorbed through the skin naturally as an ingredient of cosmetic skin creme. Now comes the kicker: A special electrified device that causes bees to sting a synthetic membrane and release their venom can harvest about one gram of bee venom from 20 bee hives. That one gram of bee venom is worth a whopping 350 dollars. This makes bee venom almost seven times more valuable than gold, which, in comparison, is worth only about 53 dollars per gram."
7 times the price of gold? (Score:5, Funny)
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That would have more to do with pesticides and herbicides:
http://science.slashdot.org/story/12/03/30/1536216/studies-link-pesticides-to-bee-colony-collapse-disorder [slashdot.org]
http://www.bouldercountybeekeepers.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/TheCaseAgainstRoundUp1.pdf [bouldercou...eepers.org]
Re:7 times the price of gold? (Score:4, Informative)
Bees die when they sting humans at least - their sting is barbed and they can't get it out, so the injuries they receive when they rip part of their butt off are fatal. It only applies to animals with a thick skin/
If this membrane is tough enough, they won't be able to penetrate it, and their stinger will stay on. It would also work if it's weak enough to pull the stinger loose.
Not for long (Score:2, Interesting)
Instead of producing it from bees for $350/g, you could put the appropriate genes into some E. coli and have them produce it for 20% of that price or less. But of course then you wouldn't be able to sell it for $350/g.
Re:Not for long (Score:4, Funny)
Instead of producing it from bees for $350/g, you could put the appropriate genes into some E. coli and have them produce it for 20% of that price or less. But of course then you wouldn't be able to sell it for $350/g.
I thought getting shitfaced meant something else.
Not quite as simple (Score:5, Interesting)
First you have to know which compound of the venom are the active ingredient (a venom is not a single molecule, it's a big mix of lots of substances).
Maybe the important part are just small peptide (works also for small nucleic acid strands). In this case, yes: just slap the gene inside a bacteria or yeast and just harvest the thing in a huge brewery tank. This will cost a tiny fraction of the current method. (as in "a few bucks for a dozen of kilograms"). Washing industry thrives on this kind of process and has already made it fucking incredibly cheap (do you really think that the digestive enzyme in your washing powder where harvested from actual animals ?)
But maybe not. Maybe it can be a complex protein that requires some post processing (chaperone helping to fold it into an unusual shape, enzyme modifying some parts) - (but very unlikely. If the venom can cross the skin without injection, it needs to be something small). Or maybe it can be a small chemical molecule that is produced by a long and complex chain of chemical reaction necessitating a big collection of enzymes (very likely, given that it can easily cross the skin).
In this case you need to identify the candidate, understand the process that produce it (not impossible but it takes time), and then either put the whole machinery inside yeast (bacteria post-process a lot less their proteins) and go for the brewery-tank method, or replicate the synthesis in another way (produce the protein in bacteria and then do the modification in a lab. Or find a way to synthetise the small chemical compound by using a sequence of chemical reactions in a lab) and scale it up to industrial scale.
This *WILL* end up being incredibly cheap in the long term, but requires much more research and development.
There's a whole branch of science to study that, called "Venomics".
Until then, you're stuck at putting bee on a micro electric chair until they are so pissed of that they start stinging the glass.
(And I'm betting that perhaps, all the benefit come from the few traces of adrenalin-like substance that the bee end-up secreting after going through such predicament and of which a small part might end up in the venom itself).
But the fact that they extract only a gram from a whole hive, means that they are probably concentrating/extracting the product already, so they know already a few tips in which direction to look to find the interresting part.
Correct me if I'm wrong (Score:3, Insightful)
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I believe they only die if their stinger breaks off. One would assume that the membrane is designed to leave the stinger intact.
Re:Correct me if I'm wrong (Score:5, Informative)
"To extract the Bee Venom a pane of glass is placed along side the hive and a small electrical current is run through it, which encourages the bees to sting the surface. The bees are not harmed in the process."
The HORROR... (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, this will certainly aggravate the Vegans, who believe that honey is not "vegan" because we are enslaving the bee.
http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm [vegetus.org]
Though I'm sure they happily eat fruits and vegetables that are pollinated with domesticated bees that farmers have "enslaved"...
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Not eating Honey is probably detrimental to he decline of the Bee population so Vegans might have a moral dilemma on their hands.
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I wonder how the creationists would explain this suicidal behavior. I remember hearing God hates suicide.
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Re:Correct me if I'm wrong (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Correct me if I'm wrong (Score:5, Funny)
It's the Big Brother effect.
Women go crazy when on camera.
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Due to my moderation threshold missing the comment you were replying to, I had assumed that you were one of those fundie-athiests bringing up religion out of nowhere just to let everyone know how stupid you thought religion was.
But then I read the comment you were replying to and then yours made total sense.
Carry on.
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I wonder how evolutionists would explain why honey bees never evolved out of this self-destructive behaviour.
The worker bees are the ones with the stingers, but they have no part in fertilizing the queens. So, their sacrifice is more like an animal chewing off it's leg to escape a trap (in an evolutionary sense.) They support the hive - but don't contribute to the hive genetics.
It is the drones, not the workers, who do the fertilization of the queens, and therefore play a primary role in evolutionary progress.
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You might also hypothesise that the barbed sting delivers a larger dose to the thicker skinned larger animal which needs a bigger deterrent, because it stays stuck in their hide, which is advantageous to the colony because they learn not to attack the hive.
i apologize in advance (Score:4, Funny)
This has been tried before (Score:3, Interesting)
price comparison (Score:5, Insightful)
"This makes Bee Venom almost seven times more valuable than Gold, which, in comparison, is worth only about 53 Dollars per 1 gram."
So it costs the same as ink for my printer, data for my cellphone, gas for my car (soon), and clean drinking water (later).
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Simple, you measure the cost of your data bundle in libraries of congress, then divide by the weight of a library of congress...
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How do you measure cellphone data by the gram?
It's difficult, because 1's weigh more than 0's.
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Interestingly enough, you can. Information can be converted to energy, at a rate of kTln2 per bit. Energy can of course be converted to mass. Of course, boltzmann's constant is small.
So, one bit at room temperature works out to about 4 × 10-21 joules. That works out to be about 4 x 10-28 kg [google.com] per bit.
And still cheaper than ink for my printer (Score:2, Funny)
Man, I wonder how much and what animal venom they use in my ink jet printer cartridges...
Pssst...... (Score:4, Funny)
*whispers*: Platypus venom.
That's nice (Score:2)
I'm glad bee venom is worth something, perhaps it will inspire people to try stave off the great bee die off. However I don't give a damn what wasp, hornet, or yellow jacket venom is worth, if I see one in the wrong place it's going to die a horrible death. Dammit
Its price is likely temporary (Score:2)
Perhaps due to limited / patent-restricted availability of the extraction method.
The price will likely decrease, when owners of large bee colonies start figuring out ways of capitalizing on this.
Or when biotech folks come up with a way of producing "synthetic" bee venom, grown by bacteria infused with genes extracted from the bees.
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What does gold have to do with this? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Wasabi (Score:2, Informative)
Price comparison chart (Score:2)
I don't understand this gold thing against which the commercial value of this bee sting is being compared. Please express this in terms of:
1. Bags of potato fries (for fitness conscious folks) /. (I wish this one was)
2. The average software patent (for nerds like us)
3. Members of the senate (who care so much for us)
4. iPhones (everyone seems to want one)
5. Windows 8 licenses (see above)
6. First posts on
Re:Price comparison chart (Score:4, Funny)
I need clarification on your proposed measurement #3.
By 'Members of the Senate", do you mean:
a) The value of their lives (What the rest of us would be losing if they were to magically disappear in a Harry Potter-esque manner),
b) Their value to the rest of us (What we gain from them per capita versus what they take from us),
-or-
c) What it costs to buy one (What needs explaining?!)
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I don't understand this gold thing against which the commercial value of this bee sting is being compared.
Me neither. I mean, I have the most unique piece of naval lint in the Universe right here -- an infinity of each of your six metrics could not compensate the rarity of this naval lint, my DNA on it is unique and once discovered I vowed to never let any accumulate again, so It's one of a kind -- and yet, no one values it; However, theres multitudes of bees, diamonds, gold, and other resources and they're seen as more valuable. It seems the value allocation system is arbitrary and corrupt.
As in all thing
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Inkjet Printer Ink (Score:3)
Lolwut (Score:5, Interesting)
Bee's venom can kill by inducing shock in allergic subjects.
It looks like it has a very nasty property of being a potential allergenic (I hope I got the correct term. If not, sorry) meaning: once you get stinged, you may become allergic to venom even if before you weren't. This in sufficently predisposed subjects.
And now it is going to be the golden ingredient for some cosmetic? I hope it is going to be subjected to some form of medical control, to say the least.
But I'm no chemist nor biologist so I may be completely wrong.
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I wouldn't worry about it. Given how expensive the venom is, any skin creme that uses it is going to be diluting to homeopathic levels anyway.
funny story (Score:2)
This reminds me of an urban legend (or maybe I just watched it on Fox) about some guys basically stinging their penis with bee's to make it swell up.
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some guys basically stinging their penis with bee's to make it swell up.
I've discovered that beavers can have the same effect.
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This reminds me of an urban legend (or maybe I just watched it on Fox) about some guys basically stinging their penis with bee's to make it swell up.
I don't think it works this way.
The story starts with a backyard apiarist doing a quick check of my hives in the middle of January. It was stinking hot. Since I was not planning on taking any real time or doing any real work I was wearing lite shoes that didn't tuck into my suit very well. Combine this with the bad choice of boxer shorts, a little bee leakage led to at least one bee in a very dangerous place.
Lifting the second box back on I lent against it leading to the worst sting I've ever experienced.
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Bee sting allergy? (Score:2)
I imagine that people with serious bee sting allergies are best advised to avoid this treatment.
Gender-specific venom action ? (Score:4, Insightful)
to have an effect on female skin
Male skin is not affected, thusly.
So just grow really big car sized bees (Score:2)
You, know, just monkey around with their DNA a bit, to produce bees that pump out a gallon or four liters of venom per sting?
This is done in bad science fiction films all the time. Start doing underground nuclear tests again with beehives. Or zap them with Gamma Rays.
But be careful not to get them too angry.
And tell chicks that want better skin to just go stick their heads in a beehive.
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If the vvenom is a nice simple single gene, you could probably stick it in some bacteria. Worked for insulin.
If you need to get a whole chemical pathway copied, it's not so easy,
A small correction (Score:5, Insightful)
Botox injections, tightening the skin and making wrinkles and other signs of aging appear less pronounced...
Botulinum toxin does not tighten the skin - it paralyses muscles, and since many wrinkles are aggravated by muscles in the skin, paralysing them can make the wrinkles less pronounced. This paralysis is very evident on the faces of many aging celebrities - they simply struggle with producing facial expressions.
It's a strange thing, isn't it? Instead of accepting their age, people mistreat themselves so they look 'younger', at least when you're not too close. I think it is deeply sad; and it only makes you look less attractive.
The natural way (Score:2)
Praise be (Score:5, Insightful)
Colony collapse disorder? Failure of crop pollenation worldwide? The possible end of agriculture and mass starvations and food riots worldwide? None of that was important enough to save the bees.
But now, shit, the bees might be able to keep aging Baby Boomers looking young! Nothing can compete with that, the bees are SAVED!
Re:Botox (Score:5, Informative)
FTFS:
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Re:Botox (Score:5, Informative)
I disagree. People spend money on gold facial masks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4Tmycixsh8 [youtube.com]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLrurC4dtUY [youtube.com]
and some idiots pay for silver facials and gels, which will actually result in argyria (turn your skin blue - literally) if you do it too many times:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhQgFc_bec4 [youtube.com]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDW799FhVJ0 [youtube.com]
Examples of argyria:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argyria [wikipedia.org]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahihGKZC5Kk [youtube.com]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnXdk3Kmq9s [youtube.com]
Now granted those are some extreme examples, but ever notice many women's earlobes have a small greyish spec at the bottom of the piercing? This is from silver compounds being absorbed into the skin. Same thing.
Would that be considered cruel ? (Score:4, Insightful)
I can't say I know how the bees feel when electricity is applied to them so that they can produce the venom, but I can tell you that it wouldn't be pleasant.
In China and in Vietnam people "harvest" bear gall bladder juice by tying up live bears and inserting a tube into the bears - and that practice is deemed "cruelty to animal".
Should electrocuting bees be considered as cruel, as well?
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bees are not cute and cuddly, so no.
Re:Would that be considered cruel ? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Does it matter? It's wrong anyway, and especially so since it's not even necessary. Doing this kind of thing should be illegal if it's for cosmetic purposes and/or to make people look/feel better.
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Why post a valid (unpopular) opinion as AC? Put your purse down.
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Do insects even feel pain as we understand it? The brains are very primitive - little more than ganglia.
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I can. They do not feel a thing. Insects lack a central nervous system, which is needed to have ability to feel what is happening to remote parts of your body.
Re:Would that be considered cruel ? (Score:4, Informative)
Not so fast [utilitarian-essays.com]. You might want to reconsider that thought, especially when the dance of bees were studied [plosone.org] and how it relates to their central nervous system.
Then there is the anatomy of a bee [tamu.edu] which shows its nervous system.
Obviously bees feel pain. The question is to what extent compared to mammals.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Botox (Score:5, Insightful)
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Why not just read the summary?
Unlike Botox, however, bee venom does not need to be injected, and can be absorbed through the skin naturally as an ingredient of cosmetic skin creme.
Re:Botox (Score:5, Insightful)
This is Slashdot. We have a proud tradition of not reading the articles, summaries, or even headlines, and then spouting inaccurate, misinformed idiocy and feeling smug about what "experts" we are.
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1 + 1 most certainly does not equal 3, you imbecile!
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Actually, it does, for large values of 1 and small values of 3.
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I'll have you know that I'm an expert on bee venom and bee venom accessories.
Then per Slashdot bylaws, you are not permitted to post in this thread.
Re:Botox (Score:5, Insightful)
Why female skin is a more apt question.
Does it not work for guys or is it an assumption that guys aren't interested in looking younger?
And more importantly (Score:3)
Re:And more importantly (Score:5, Funny)
No. The beard gets in the way of the neck.
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Considering the price of the active ingredient i think it's fair to assume that the quantities in any anti-ageing product will be about as effective as any current venomless skin cream, maybe they feel that, since women are already very used to convincing themselves of the efficacy of some made up or at least utterly useless new wonder molecule they're also most likely to feel the effects of any bee venom branded moisturisers.
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"My balls are as smooth as pearls, and you know how much women love pearls"
Re:Botox (Score:4, Funny)
"My balls are as smooth as pearls, and you know how much women love pearls"
Not to mention their love for the necklace you can make with them.
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"My balls are as smooth as pearls, and you know how much women love pearls"
Not to mention their love for the necklace you can make with them.
And they'll want rather more than two of them to make a decent necklace...
Re:Botox (Score:4, Funny)
Most men arn't so vain and insecure... (Score:3)
... that they'd have a potent toxin injected in them just to make them look a few years younger. Female vanity apparently has no bounds. Or at least we haven't found them yet.
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Most men arn't so vain and insecure... that they'd have a potent toxin injected in them just to make them look a few years younger. Female vanity apparently has no bounds. Or at least we haven't found them yet.
Today's man is apparently a little more concerned with his looks than back when I was in my 20's. I can't help but think today's idea of a good looking man is an effeminate looking man, but I guess that's what the women of today are going for (unless i'm wrong in my assumption that such men are out to impress women...)
Re:Most men arn't so vain and insecure... (Score:5, Insightful)
No, men are vain and insecure in completely different ways, because they have spent their lives being judged for things other than their beauty.
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Ingrained (Score:2)
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Female skin apparently has a slightly lower pH than male skin, although I'm not sure why. I don't know if that makes a difference on the effectiveness of the venom, but it may. Bee sting is acidic[1] and so the effect of a bee string is probably slightly strong for women than for men, as their natural skin pH won't neutralise it (conversely, a wasp sting will be milder, as wasp sting is alkaline). Of course, it may just be that they only tested it with women because that's a larger market for cosmetics.
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Female skin apparently has a slightly lower pH than male skin, although I'm not sure why.
Duh... it's lower because of the bee venom cream they apply every morning.
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I mean just look at what nanotechnology has brought us so far! Um, oh wait...
You mean something like a handheld computer that can make phone calls, surf the internet, play games, and all weighs less than a pound? Oh, and is so ubiquitous that even your grandma might have one?
:(
If only that had happened we could say nanotechnology was a success
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your celphone is not nanotech
It's not just Drexler now (Score:2)
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The SoC is.
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Nevertheless you parent is right, it is not nanotech ;D
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It's made of components that are assembled at the nanotech level, so why isn't it? (asking the question genuinely as I suspect there's some definition for nanotechnology that we obviously don't know).
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Nanotechnology, as I understand it, is about building entire machines out of atoms, on a nanoscale. This would allow us to interact with the world in a completely different way, for instance, physically ripping bacteria apart instead of trying to kill them with chemicals. So a cell phone doesn't fit the description: even though transistors can be measured in nanometers, the whole CPU, let alone the cell phone, is far beyond the nanoscale.
I'm not an expert. You could just read about it on wikipedia.
http://en [wikipedia.org]
Re:Can't we just 3D print it? (Score:5, Funny)
And you thought bee venom was expensive? Just wait until you see the prices of HP 3D Printer Bee Venom Cartridges.
Re:Does it kill the bees??? (Score:5, Informative)
No, the bees just get really pissed off by the current, and it encourages them to sting the glass.
Per the video, you can "harvest" every two weeks.
Re:Does it kill the bees??? (Score:4, Informative)
Hmmm, I was going to say that bees die when they sting. But that's because normally the stinger gets hooked in the victim and the bee's abdomen ruptures when the stinger is pulled off. If they're stinging glass, I suppose it's possible they could survive the experience because the stinger wouldn't get stuck.
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P.S. => I already wax and bleach my asshole and encourage everyone else to do the same.
OK... but don't expect all of us to wax and bleach your asshole for free.