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The Oldest Knives In The Solar System 129

Posted by Hemos from the someone-can-buy-me-this dept.
al-bob writes: "For the person who has everything: handmade knives crafted from meteorites! These are beautiful knives with handles and/or blades made from extraterrestrial source materials. The guy bills them as the 'oldest knives in the solar system.' As someone said, 'not for the light of wallet'. " So, anyone wants to think of me for my next birthday ...
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The Oldest Knives In the Solar System

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  • Thanks for pointing that out. Brainfart. I saw a show once on PBS tat said some of these blacksmiths are considered national treasures.
  • Another place I've seen extreme microfilaments mentioned was in Orson Scott Card's Wyrms . The protagonist, a 15-year old heiress trained as an assassin, kept a very thin (i.e., molecules wide...) cord in her hair for strangling herself if necessary. Wyrms is a great book, BTW. Very strange in places but flows extremely well.

    Whoa, cool! I just found you can read Chapter 1 of all his stories at his official site [hatrack.com]. And it turns out she's 13. The "loop" is mentioned in the preview chapter.

  • Having seen my terribly weak osm/portman Star Trek suggestion come to life as perfection is better than I imagined..

    Great work!! ROFL, LMAO, etc.. Kick ass, and I ain't even been drinkin'...

  • I agree with your pretty but pointless response.

    I can recommend a knife with all the same Geekiness factor as these and it is darn useful, too!

    Try the Boker Ceramic folding knives. They contain a transformation toughened zirconia blade that folds into a 6/4 titanium handle. Not only will you know that you are cool with a ceramic bladed knife made out of the TOUGHEST ceramic in existance, but the ceramic/titanium combo makes this knife the least reactive to anything.

    Of course, it is a ceramic blade so you won't have to ever sharpen it, but don't pry anything with it.

    After 3 years of use, mine is just as sharp as the day I bought it.

    --
  • The steel at the web site is just about as ugly as some of the foulmouth folks commenting above.
  • I posted to the same discussion, and my email was, to the best of my knowledge not spamproofed at the time.. No special email, etc..

    He's indoubatibly a /. reader that prolly agreed with you implicitly and felt like pointing you to a [mainstream] news article that shared your viewpoint.. It's a nice thing, not EVIL SPAM.
  • Is this post.

    As I sat here reading this, and desperately trying not to laugh so hard that I get spittle on my screen, I couldn't help but think of what a suit would do reading this post. He would not be laughing. If anything, this post would embarrass him immensely.

    That is, I think, the biggest difference between suits and geeks, we can be serious and mirthful at the same time. This guy posted, on a (usually) serious forum, about a serious topic, the most off-the-wall and hilarious comments I have ever seen.

    I'm not saying that suits can't laugh, but they wouldn't think that is funny. Why? Because it is not "appropriate" for the subject matter (offtopic?). Just as Suits wouldn't like Write Only Memory, or INTERCAL (two other greats IMHO). Their lives are segmented up into chunks, they read slashdot (not that any of them would) if they want "Stuff that Matters". They go to a nightclub if they want to laugh.

    I often hear people tell me that geeks arn't "well rounded" because all we want to talk about is "computer stuff". That's not true, I'll talk to anyone about any technical topic, be it Unix, Physics, History, or a phalanx of other topics, but that's still not being 'well rounded'. Well rounded, to them, is talking about family, sports, and the weather (the weather, not meterology).

    I will now make a pathetic attempt to become coherent. What I am trying to say is that we live life, we can take technical things, and serious things, and instead of saying "gee wiz, anyhow, crazy weather we've been having", we examine them, come to understand them at a deeper level, and poke fun at them. We can integerate our lives with human understanding of the world in which we live our lives.

    That is, IMNSHO, one hell of a lot more 'well rounded' then conversations about how big franke is getting, if you saw the rams game, and about how some rain would be nice about now.

  • YES! its posts like that one that make slashdot FUN to read! woohoo! keep em comin! :)
  • Don't drop it either.. I dropped one (Early dull finish) and watched it shatter...
  • Bah. MCSE carry Phillips..

    Buth the drop-point GATOR and the C10 have a tapered blade that works perfectly for everything from a T-15 Torx to the tiniest Phillips..

    What real geek needs Phillips when they can hack something else into the job, right??

  • Re:Highlander... (Score:5)

    by MousePotato ( 124958 ) on Friday June 02, 2000 @09:08PM (#1028644) Homepage Journal
    I could have sworn McLeod's sword (the one he picked up when Ramirez lost his head) was a very special Japanese Katana. I am not 100% sure if this is the same sword (movie) as in the series but this type of sword has was very special indeed. As explained to me by an expert in oriental antiques and armor, these swords were forged rather ceremoniously and were made of two types of steel. The 'Shingane' metal of the sword was a very low carbon steel and wasy very soft and provided great flexibilty in the final blade. The 'Kawagane' was the second steel used and was a very high carbon steel and is primarily responsible for the sharpness. A good sword maker typically controlled and increased additional carbon levels in his forge by a special process where the sword would be placed on the top of the hotest coals as new coals were pushed underneath them and allowed to burn. When the coals had burned to the original levels the sword would be taken out and worked while more coals were added. The swords were folded exactly 19 times. I cannot remember why exactly the number 19 but I beleive it was a superstition as the Japanese culture made powerful associations with specific numbers (ie 4 is bad luck ala 13 in the US yet 3 is very lucky ala 7 here). This number of folds has been debated vigorously for a long time. I understood it that 524,288 layers provided an unique combination of strength, flexibilty and the capability to keep an extremely sharp edge. (I have heard many times the number is 20 but the amount of layers created at 20 folds negated the effect and made for a very sharp very brittle sword.) Sword makers would sharpen swords and mark the 'Nakago' (tang) with a body count, the date, and thier signature each time the sword was serviced. The other sword bearing the mark of the Clan McLeod may have been damascus, this may be the sword you are referring to but I am unfamiliar with the particulars of it. Time to look for the tapes... an unfortunate side note: the expert was Dennis Szeszler, among the worlds foremost experts in oriental arts and culture. He passed away last year a few weeks before his 53 birthday of alchoholism. Dennis was my uncle.
  • No, only the elephant. Promoting any sort of ivory goods
    naturally creates some demand for elephant ivory, if only
    as a suitable raw ingredient for faking mammoth ivory.
    Ever tried digging in permafrost?

    I agree that this is way the hell up the slippery slope from
    gorilla's palm ashtrays, but it is still a bit dodgy.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Where does this guy just happen upon a meteorite to carve his knives out of. I'm guessing most of these are made out of some basaltic volcanic rock or something not a genuine meteor. I mean come on where's he going to get his hands on one of these things? swipe it out of a NSF laboratory... I don't think so.


    Nathaniel P. Wilkerson
    NPS Internet Solutions, LLC
    www.npsis.com [npsis.com]
  • In the Warhammer world there are Meteorite Armours which actually fuse to your skin. I can't wait untill they sell those :-) -Bulletproof!- "Life's only purpose is life itself" -Alpha Centauri, Sid Meyer-
  • Thank you, sir, for the short flashback to MATE 226 and 246, Physical Metallurgy, with the
    mighty Dr. W. D. Forgeng.

    *sniff*

    --Ben "Where on EARTH will we see THIS again, Dr. F??" August

  • Then they contain a lot of Iridium, an element that is extremely rare on this planet, but common in metorites. Iridium is a very tough metal, and the higher the concentration of Iridium in a blade, the hotter it has to be and the harder you have to beat it to get it shaped correctly.
  • We should make Uranium-235 knives and make lots of money!
  • The point was that if you judge the age of an item by the age of its parts (or material), you should indeed take into account these gas molecules, which one day solidified into iron ore, then became part of the earth crust, then were mined, and finally transformed in those plain stainless steel knives lying around in my kitchen cupboard. Which makes those fancy meteorite knives no older than any other knife on earth.

    If on the other hand, you consider the age of the whole, rather than its parts, then you have to be aware that those fancy meteorite knives were carved out of said meteorite quite recently, and that my grand parents' silver cutlery is certainly older. So, no matter how you look at it, these are not the oldest knives of the solar system, let alone the whole universe.

  • And before that, in "Stand on Zanzibar", John Brunner had mono-filaments too.

  • Re:doh! (Score:1)

    by fnj ( 64210 )
    It's spelled "duh", not "doh".

    DUH!!!
  • Not me man. I want my marriage to be "null and void" off-planet.
  • Meteorite switchblades

    *click*
    (Large chunk chips off of blade)
    "Dangit!"
  • We found a jeweller in California that did some custom work and someday soon I hope the superpowers will kick in.

    Yeah, but you gotta play outside in a lightning storm to get the 1.21 gigawatts necessary to activate them...
    Your Working Boy,
  • Hell, why not genetically engineer pigs to grow useful ivory tusks?

    New from Electronic Arts: Bill Budge's 'Endangered Species Construction Set'...

    (ooh yeah, I forgot that Loverboy song...)

    Your Working Boy,

  • Re:Damascene Steel (Score:3)

    by nublord ( 88026 ) on Friday June 02, 2000 @07:02PM (#1028660)
    I'm not a damscus steel expert at all but I do know that two types of metal are used to make damascus steel blades.

    The problem with any sharp cutting instrument is that through repeated use the blade wears down requiring sharpening. The harder the steel used the more it resists dulling. However, this makes it harder to sharpen to a fine edge.

    On the other hand, if you use a softer steel you are able to sharpen the blade to a finer edge but it must be sharpend more often.

    The intent of damascus steel was to mix two types of steel, one hard and one soft. The end result would be a blade that would resist dulling more than a soft metal blade but could be sharpened to a finer edge than a hard metal blade.

    I've come across quite a few web sites where blacksmiths have either supported the use of damascus, or felt that it was a waste of time. Either way a blade made out of damascus steel looks truly unique.

    There isn't a whole lot of info at this site [damascus.ch] but it does show you what a damascus blade looks like compared to a regular steel blade.

  • A great jewelry site I found, Talisman Jewelers and Metalsmiths [metalsmiths.com], has (among other things) meteorite rings [metalsmiths.com] and stuff.

    I bought a pair of silver wedding bands from these folks for my wife and I several years ago. Very nice people, and great work. (No relation to said company, other than a very happy customer!)

  • First time I read about monofilament weapons was Larry Niven's "known space" stories, which had a weapon called a 'variable sword' - a monofilament enclosed in a stasis field, with a little red light to tell you where the far end was (the filament itself being too thin to see). I think it could extend from zero to several kilometers..

  • Re:Damascene Steel (Score:3)

    by Markar ( 154019 ) on Friday June 02, 2000 @07:07PM (#1028663)
    My understanding of Damascus steel knives, etc, is that separate pieces of iron and steel are first welded together. Then it is folded; the first fold yields 4 layers (since it started with 2 layers to begin with), each sucessive fold doubles the number of layers. To have 1024 layers doesn't require it to be folded 1000 times, if it were folded that many time the steel would become homogenous and lose the special qualities the technique gives it.

    The alternating layers of hard and soft layers give the blade extreme flexability. The Rockwell hardness is dificult to determine, there is usually a wide variation, since it depends upon where on the blade it is tested, as well as the materials used. Etching the blade reveals the pattern of the folds and imparts a unique asthetic beauty to each blade.

    Damascus regained popularity in the late 1980's when knife manufacturers learned how to mass produce these blades. I own 8 such knives produced by Parker circa 1988 to 1989.

  • In the "Riverworld" saga, by Philip José Farmer, Erik Bloodaxe carries a very precious axe made of meteoritic iron, since it's the only source of pure metal available in that setting.

    Of course, Mark Twain and the others establish a Esperanto-speaking industrial culture later, but...
    __
  • Don't the have these now? I seem to recall something on Discovery channel, talking about some research company using single-atom width knives (probably more like scalpels) to prepare really delicate samples for study. Of course, not exactly available on the Home Shopping Channel...
  • Larry Niven's Ringworld series had swords, with extensible single-atom-wide blades, encased in some kind of energy field to protect their fragility, but they'd cut instantly through anything. Monowire blades, or something like that.

    I just remembered this old Metallica song. . .
  • Why not? You can't dig a hole in Siberia without hitting one of the buggers. Plus, the eco-nazis can't complain that the ivory trade will result in the extinction of the mammoth.

  • Re:Damascene Steel (Score:3)

    by bgalehouse ( 182357 ) on Friday June 02, 2000 @07:10PM (#1028669)

    Damascus steel is forged by folding, as are the traditional oriental blades. I think that this is a case of parellel evolution, but I'm not completely certain.

    The oriental blades have two parts - a core and an outer skin. Both are folded multiple times. The outer skin is high carbon, (to hold an edge) the core is milder steel (for flexibility). This doesn't matter much for knives, but is essential if you want a katana that you can shave with and that doesn't crack when hitting a bone.

    In addition to the mutiple types of steel, traditional blades are differentially tempered. A clay shell is put on the blade, the clay is thinnest on the edge. The entire unit is heated past the curie point and quenched. The Edge has the least amount of clay, so the quenching cools it the fastest. This makes the edge hard (and sharp) without making the rest of the blade brittle.

    Continuing this lecture, for anybody still with us, the edge and the remainder of the skin have two distinct tempers with two distinct crystal structures. The boundary between these two areas is a visible temper line. Cheap imitations will have etched onto them something vaguely similar to a temper line for the sake of authenticity. The temper line is intentially wavy to help keep cracks from spreading.

  • Communist. Next you'll be saying we shouldn't use powdered rhinoceros horn to arouse our beloved's desire.
  • Anyone know when will something like that be possible?

    Obsidian knives have been around for thousands of years. [gatewayva.com] Not quite as long as meteorites, but hey.

    It's probably where Stephenson got the idea... it fits with the picture of Raven as master of pre-metaverse aboriginal traditions.

    --Seen

  • Excellent, my man, simply excellent.

    Also, good work posting this at night, you may escape the Evil Romulan Moderators yet.

    (Oh NO, they were just cloaked a short distance away! My karma will be gone too, if I can't say anything about "Knives Crafted From Meteorites" in the next 30 seconds!!!)

    Um... ummm...

    Hey, isn't all the metal on Earth that's heavier than Lead or so from Supernova residue anyhow? Wouldn't that be pretty old too? Actually, isn't it all the same age, and just tossed around for a while longer? Hey, why not harass a comet and sell dirty ice while you're at it? Capitalist pigdogs...
    ---
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu].
  • How lame is it that he refuses to teach anyone how to make obsidian blades in order to maintain "quality of the industry"?

    Sounds like a total wanker to me. He should share that tech, lest he accidentally fall on one of his blades (which I'm sure are undoubtedly extremely cool), and the tech of 10,000 years is lost again.

    He's not an archeologist, I think. He's an egomaniac who just happens to make good blades.
  • Singlar is knife. Plural is knives.
  • I seriously doubt you would find much in the way of amino acid or other genetic precursors in an _Iron_ meteorite. The ones with interesting material in them tend to be carbenaceous with a low metal content and somewhat less useful for making knives, or any sort of cutlery out of.
  • Those space-rock knives are pretty cool. How much to they cost? If I had one of those, I could cut stuff that's out of this world :=)
  • --I think monofilament was mentioned in the original "Johnny Mnemonic" (NOT the one with Keanu!) and used with a detachable false fingertip to assassinate somebody by cutting them into chunks.
  • Did you ever look up how much space crap much falls on Earth in each 24 hour period?

    I seem to remember it is >100Kg/day range. Yes most is tiny by the time you get to it but some is in hulking big chunks. It has been like that for more than 3 billion years plus any thing you manage to find above that size(1cm^3) is going to have lots of Metals in it,QED.

    Oh, yah change your spam(sig) soon please or post less.

  • Anything above iron in the periodic table of elements didn't originate from our sun, but rather from supernovas ...according to my coffee table physics books.

    I'll take my knives in extraterrestrial lead, silver, and gold please!
  • pfffft.. barely a 3" blade. Save your money and buy a short sword. size is everything.

    If size is everything why stop at a short sword? We demand 2 handed swords forged from planetary diamond formed from the intense pressure at the heart of jupiter!
  • I own a Kershaw T1 - Hawk (model 1435 - uses ATS 34 metal/alloy) and I must say it's much nicer than any of the other knives I own (of which, I have about 20 good lock-blade folding knives) and I highly recommend it. A rather large knife shop in Jack London Square (Oakland CA) informed me that this was the best lock blade knife in their shop when taking into account, size, form factor, weight, how well the blade holds an edge, etc. Remarkably, at $130 there were many other more expensive lock blade knives by various other companies I had never heard of.

    I highly recommend this knife to anyone who is willing to spend a little bit more on a knife to get a great knife.

    It's a fairly simple knife (there aren't any gems or exotic materials used in this knife other) with a titanium handle with cutouts to make it lighter, an ATS 34 blade, and a build in/removeable clip. You can open and close the knife with one hand (it opens rather quickly and smoothely).

    In general, Kershaw makes some damned fine knives.

  • Titanium blades with steel edge! I could have used one of these in Traveler(tm)(May it rest in peace).http://www.arizonacustomknives .com/thomas-warren.htm [arizonacustomknives.com] Sorry about the double posts (It was not my fault, it was my brain!)
  • IIRC, every element heavier than iron is made in the fury of a supernova. The carbon catalysis cycle in main-sequence fusion can produce only up to iron (element # 27). Personally, I find it fascinating that two-thirds of the periodic table is made in the instantaneous death rage of a large star.

  • Space, The Final Frontier... (Score:5)

    by osm ( 179439 ) on Friday June 02, 2000 @06:18PM (#1028684)

    one day in the "geek compound"...

    mr. hemos: captain malda, i have determined that napster stories are bringing in three to five hundred comments a piece! think of the banner revenues!

    captain malda: captain to engineering!

    engineer roblimo: engineer roblimo here, sir.

    captain malda: mr. roblimo... crank out some more napster stories!

    engineer roblimo: but captain... the trained monkeys can't take much more! they're pulling them out of the queue as fast as they can!

    captain malda: not fast enough, mr. roblimo!

    engineer roblimo: we need more submissions!

    captain malda: damnit, roblimo, just make something up!

    lieutenant jamie: captain, we're receiving a transmission from an unidentified source.

    captain malda: patch it through!

    osm(over speaker): i want to open-source natalie portman's firm teen buttocks and pouting teen breasts!

    helmsman emmett: captain... look!

    an aibo approaches the compound.

    lieutenant jamie: captain, the transmission is coming from the aibo!

    captain malda: helmsman emmett... moderate it down: -2, flamebait!

    helmsman emmett applies the moderation. the aibo pauses but keeps approaching.

    osm (over speaker): your feeble moderation points are no match for the power of my modified aibo!

    captain malda: engineering, we need more power in the moderation system!

    engineer roblimo: but captain... the moderation system is at maximum power!

    captain malda: i don't want excuses, roblimo... give me that power!

    the aibo begins to move forward, a large antenna rises from the nose.

    captain malda: mr. roblimo!

    the antenna starts to glow.

    captain malda: mr. roblimo!!

    the antenna glows brighter.

    engineer roblimo: captain! i have jerry-rigged the moderation system! i converted it to a bitchslap system!

    captain malda: helmsman, fire!

    helmsman emmett presses the fire button. just as an enormous comment begins transmitting through the speaker...

    osm (over speaker): star (as in hot young actress) wars. a story of tender love. it is a period....

    the transmission is terminated by the bitchslapping. captain malda relaxes.

    captain malda: good work mr. roblimo!

    mr. hemos: captain, sensors have detected that yeoman portman was beamed off the ship... into the aibo!

    captain malda: lieutenant jamie, open a channel.

    captain malda: osm! return yeoman portman at once!

    yeoman portman (over speaker): blow it out your ass, dork! i want a real man! an open-source man! a man that knows how to caress my firm teen buttocks and suckle my pouting teen breasts! not a boy who has bad dreams and shits a lot!

    osm (over speaker, clearly ecstatic): hahahahahahahahahahahaha! i took a bitchslapping for natalie portman! hahahahahahaahahahahahahaha! come natalie, i will take you to quicktrip and woo you with a vegetarian burrito. i will then take you to see the buffalo and touch you.

    yeoman portman (over speaker): oh, open-source man! how my innocent teen heart has yearned for the tender touch of your open-source hand!

    osm and yeoman portman (over speaker): hooray!

    captain malda: cut that off!

    the aibo turns and disappears. transmissions continue beaming from the aibo and are broadcast over the speaker.

    captain malda: what the hell is the matter with that guy?!

    dr. katz: damnit, rob, i'm a teen-angst zealot, not a psychiatrist!

    captain malda (clearly infuriated): engineering!! where the hell are those napster stories?!!

  • watch out! (Score:3)

    by molo ( 94384 ) on Friday June 02, 2000 @06:21PM (#1028685) Journal
    Hope he doesn't make throwing knives:

    Yeah, I hit it with a metorite.

    :)

  • Re:Glass Knives (Score:3)

    by Bald Wookie ( 18771 ) on Saturday June 03, 2000 @07:05AM (#1028686)
    Sorry, but I have to disagree. The knives eventually dulled with use but, the flow of glass is a myth. Uncle Al from sci.[chem|physics] says it better than I ever could:



    >glass is a liquid which flows over
    > centuries rather than minutes.

    [snip]

    1) Obsidian knives in Egyptian tombs are still razor sharp. Is 5000 years in desert heat longer than "centuries?" And with a tight radius of curvature at the start, too.

    2) Obsidian cliffs are still up there, under lots of pressure, for some millions of years. Where's the ooze?

    3) But wait! The foregoing is all bullshit because it happens over such large unobserved periods of time! No problem. Take some
    sodalime glass, heat it with a propane torch to soften, stress it but don't anneal. When returned to room temp, place between crossed polarizers. You can now QUANTITATIVELY measure the internal strain by the birefringence evidenced by the colored lines. Take a picture - it's hundreds of psi. Put it on your keychain for safe keeping, wait a year, take another photo of the birefringence. No change, bozo. And that is a lot smaller than flow. Say it softly... TEMPERED
    GLASS. So sad.

    4) Glass fiberoptic strands don't deform over decades. Their exquisite sensitivity to geometry, flaws, and stress birefringence is real time up your nose.


    (Posted by Uncle Al in alt.sci.physics.new-theories on 01/22/2000)

    You can also check out The UL archive [urbanlegends.com] for more info...


    -BW
  • the kife I found in vinny's back looked older than that.

    --
  • Do we really need more people to drool over the "loveliness" of ivory, in any form? Sure its long dead mammoth ivory not african ivory, but this guy also uses water buffalo horns in his weirdo knife fetish thats fit for the HSN. Call me crazy buy shouldn't mammoth ivory be in a musueum or anywhere but a knife collector's hilt?

    I don't want to sound too PETA-esque but a progressive site like /. providing traffic for someone who glorifies ivory (if african ivory was still available as it was in its heyday I'm sure he'd still be using it) looks pretty anachronistic.

    Blackheart: Mr. Simpson, I think you'll find this amount more than fair.

    Lisa: Dad, I think he's an ivory dealer! His boots are ivory, his hat is ivory, and I'm pretty sure that check is ivory.

    Homer: Lisa, a guy who's got lots of ivory is _less_ likely to hurt Stampy than a guy whose ivory supplies are low.
  • of couse, since I never passed the third grade, I can't spell.

    but I've just been informed that the more modern spelling is "knife".

    --

  • There once was a cutler from venus
    Endowed, you'd think equine his genus
    His choice in career
    Was the source of his fear
    His wife threatened to cut off his penis!
  • As a knife guy (and certified gun nut [tripod.com]) this thing irks me a bit. The knife maker, though obviously talented (and patient to work with Damascus), has gone out of his way to make a knife that is too fragile to use. It's like a solid gold shotgun...kinda pretty and nifty, but not at all functional.

    I'm just not into conspicious consumption...



  • Hey, isn't all the metal on Earth that's heavier than Lead or so from Supernova residue anyhow? Wouldn't that be pretty old too? Actually, isn't it all the same age, and just tossed around for a while longer? Hey, why not harass a comet and sell dirty ice while you're at it? Capitalist pigdogs...

    This would probably be the appropriate time to bring up my plan to mine the sun. See, being as it's in the middle of a star that's where all heavy elements are formed. The trick is you just blow it up. The problem is you've only got a few seconds before Earth is spacedust and your stuff is worthless. Oh well, can't win 'em all...

    Ever get the impression that your life would make a good sitcom?
    Ever follow this to its logical conclusion: that your life is a sitcom?
  • could be interestin, y'know?
  • Is there any proof that these knives are made from "meteorites"? There have been cases of people just sayinf it was... the selling point is "I own something from outer space". (Yeah, half those "stars" you can get named after you don't even exist when you check, yet more proof for PT Barnum...) Seriously- how do you prove it? I'm not trying to be flamebait, but this does seem pretty suspicious.

  • Not the oldest (Score:5)

    by spoonboy42 ( 146048 ) on Friday June 02, 2000 @06:30PM (#1028695)
    While these are wicked cool if you have the cash, I just had to point out that they're not any older than anything else in the universe. If you want to go down to the level of quarks, the matter that makes up us, the knives, and the galaxies has been around for 12 billion years. Even then, as far as the formation of the solar system is concerned, our most recent data seems to show that the gas giants formed first, with the terrestrial planets all coming into existence at about the same time a few hundred million years later. Since most meteorites are either left over debris or remnants from a destroyed/failed planet between Mars and Jupiter, we basically have the knives tied, age-wise.

  • There is precedent... (Score:3)

    by Robotech_Master ( 14247 ) on Friday June 02, 2000 @06:35PM (#1028696) Homepage Journal
    The sword of the samurai Goemon, Zantetsu-ken, in the Lupin III animé and manga, was forged from meteorite metal, and can cut through anything.

    Hmmm...I should get me one of those...
    --

  • hello (Score:5)

    by tealover ( 187148 ) on Friday June 02, 2000 @06:37PM (#1028697)
    i would like to order a set. My, uh, girlfriend needs a few knives in her back...uh, I mean rack...she needs a few knives in her kitchen rack.

    Yours Sincerely,

    Orenthal James Simspon

  • Damascene Steel (Score:3)

    by N8F8 ( 4562 ) on Friday June 02, 2000 @06:37PM (#1028698)
    Damascene steel is really an interresting material. For you Highlander fans out there this is the kind of steel used in his sword. Basically, a blacksmith pounds the metal stock flat, folds it in half and pounds it flat again. Masters of this process can be found in Japan. Often they create blades that have been folded thousands of times. Without having read any in-depth studies on what this does to the metal, I surmise that the metal crystal lattice structure becomes highly uniform/aligned perpindicular to the edge of the blade. This would make the blade stiffer when striking an object with the blade while remaining flexible from the side. In most cases some form of carbon steel is used since the layers must be beaten/fused/spot-weleded between layers. This also means that the blade must be kept very clean or surface will form rust very easily. Another problem is if the blade is poorly crafted it may delaminate between layers like the first cheap Damascus knife I bought.
  • It is a ridiculous, preposterous story, and you think that people would want some proof before they devote their life to it! What you should really do is put your faith in Jesus ..

    I'm going to make the safe assumption that this irony was intentional, and take this opportunity to congratulate you on a very funny bit of satire. :-)
  • Yes, meteorites are extremely rare. That's why scientists go wandering around on the ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica just to look for the things. Every one that they find they study extensively. But hey--why examine them to understand the isotope chemistry of the solar system or even to find clues as to the origin of life? Cut them up instead to make a profit selling ostentatious knives that will never get used!
  • >I'm not a damscus steel expert at all

    Yet another shorthand:

    "INADSEAL"

  • The idea of extremely thin weapons isn't unique (haven't read Stephenson yet BTW but really need to...). I've seen it mentioned in at least one Star Trek book. In the story, a net of molecule-wide cords was stretched between several ships, who then flew by their enemy. The other ship disintegrated within seconds.

    Another place I've seen extreme microfilaments mentioned was in Orson Scott Card's Wyrms [nwlink.com] . The protagonist, a 15-year old heiress trained as an assassin, kept a very thin (i.e., molecules wide...) cord in her hair for strangling herself if necessary. Wyrms is a great book, BTW. Very strange in places but flows extremely well.

  • I've got to get on here sooner; I was going to post this point. However, I am consoled by the prospect of billing myself as the OLDEST (collection of) HUMAN (molecules) IN THE WORLD! If there are people out there buying the oldest knives, there's got to be a couple who'd pay five bucks for my show.

    (Shameless troll-bait)
  • ... just as long as you stab Jon Katz with it :)

    (joking, joking...)

    Nicholas
  • yep... I got the same impression. Cavemen were able to make these blades for chrissake... He's coming up with these lame excuses to keep his monopoly or something.... he should be straightforward and say that he doesn't wanna teach anyone.

    --
    GroundAndPound.com [groundandpound.com] News and info for martial artists of all styles.
  • Is that the clueless claxon I hear firing It is! It is!

  • Re:Glass Knives (Score:3)

    by Bald Wookie ( 18771 ) on Friday June 02, 2000 @08:31PM (#1028707)
    Ive made glass knives for ultramicrotomy before. We used them to section samples for a transmission electron microscope. Although they dont have a single atom edge they are super sharp and easy to make. I havent done this in years so all of this is being pulled out of the haze. If you know what I am trying to say, please jump right in and flesh out the details.

    Basically we took a small rectangle of quarter inch thick plate glass and scored it diagonally with a diamond cutter. Then we broke along the score and examined the sharpest edge under a low power microscope. To check the quality ISTR looking for some sort of visual effect caused by diffraction or interference. Of course we also made sure it had a nice straight, even blade. It took a few tries to get a good blade, but man was it ever sharp. These things would shave microns off of a hard plastic sample.

    I dont know about making weapons out of these knives though. You might be able to fashion a decent spear head, but that is about it.

    -BW

  • The edge _is_ and atom wide. At least right after you break it. Over time the edge dissipates. For transmission electron microscopy, you need a realy thin sample, and such disposable "break and use once" knives are common. Stephenson is cool, but you shouldn't take his tech too seriously.

    Now, STM is something totally different. It only works with conductive (and semi-conductive, for your advanced chip design research buffs) materials. SFM works with anything. Both SFT and STM can be seen as first draft nanotech manipulators.


  • yeah... i think they use something similar to cut tissue samples for microscopy etc. I don't think that the blade is atom wide though :)

    --
    GroundAndPound.com [groundandpound.com] News and info for martial artists of all styles.
  • Yah, your probably right. There is alot of crap raining down on earth every day, but how do you find this stuff. I mean its not like I ever get up one morning and find a 3 kilo meteor sitting there in the middle of my lawn. Its like searching for a needle in a haystack. I don't know I'm just a little suspicious about the source of these supposed meteor materials.

    As far as my sig is concerned, if you don't like it don't pay any more attention to it than to those silly banners at the top of this page. Sorry if it offends you but it does serve a purpose.


    Nathaniel P. Wilkerson
    NPS Internet Solutions, LLC
    www.npsis.com [npsis.com]
  • What was your score? Another thing that makes me suspicious is that I didn't actually post anything - I just pasted in a URL that dialected the the copyright violation notice, or some such. Being, as it was, a cut and paste, it got moderated up to 4 (like all cut and pastes do :P ).

    So, I'm saying, my post was a no-op. No content, nothing with which to agree. That email is spam.

    Come on, someone else has to have gotten this. Speak up!
  • heh. it's not spam.

    welcome to life in the fast lane.

    --
    blue
  • Broblem with a edged weapon made out of glass is that glass is amorphic, not crystal, and it acts like very stiff liquid. You can make extremely sharp edge, but it will become dull by itself (=even when not used) in couple of weeks.

    ---------------
    Fire Your Boss!
  • Hunh.. Odd.. I think I had a 3; Said something stupid about it and got the obligational +'s..

    Then again, I can't seem to find that post, so perhaps I'm mistaken...

    Perhaps he snagged the first X-num manually. news.com doesn't pay by clickthru, etc, so an additional audience would make zero sense in the terms of spamming.. The crowd you get here now consists of only the die hards, so they poseted as well [assumption] and someone would have seen the 'spam'..

    Like I said, prolly just a decent 'netizen'.

    Slap me. I just used a Marketdroidism..
  • To find Metal I would suggest a 8" dia plywood hoop with 16 coils of 24awg, 1 LM555, 4 resistors, 2 capacitors, trim Pot, and a 9v battery.

    Grab the red and yellow Trail-Bags you have and walk out your door and on to the glaciers near you and I would bet even you could find some.

    Have fun.
    PS: The banners support this site, your sig supports what? Ego? or is it just Spam?
  • http://www.cosmic-cutlery.com/toc.html [cosmic-cutlery.com] also offers a selection of knives & jewelry made from meteorites.

    Unfortunately, it's also rather pricy, but hey - what did you expect?

  • For more information... (Score:5)

    by Carl Jacobsen ( 23360 ) on Friday June 02, 2000 @11:31PM (#1028717)

    The knife in question is what is termed as an "Art Knife" (though most art knives don't venture quite so far into the rare/exotic materials category), sort of a functional work of art. How functional? Well, a priceless bit of jewelery, you can theoretically wear, but a priceless knife, you can theoretically use to prepare lunch. You might well never do either, but in theory, the knife is more practical :-)

    There is quite a community of people (me included) who are fascinated by knives, and who carry one or more around as a matter of course -- perhaps not a $2100 meteorite art knife, mind you, but I do know people who carry (and use) $500 custom-made pocket knives on a daily basis. (And, by the way, the vast majority of these people are sane, rational, level-headed types, who consider their knives to be tools, not weapons.)

    For the two percent or so of the studio audience who are thinking, "hmm, this meteorite knife isn't for me, but the topic of knives is interesting", I would heartily recommend these sites for further information:

    • www.bladeforums.com [bladeforums.com]
      This is the most popular "web-based BBS" site for discussion of all things sharp and shiny. Lively discussions with everyone from the merely curious to avid collectors, to amateur and professional knife makers, and the CEOs of some of the most highly regarded knife companies.
    • www.chaicutlery.com [chaicutlery.com]
      This online knife store is a one-man operation, a self-professed "collector turned dealer to support his habit" (and advocate for the sane use of sharp shiny things), who provides tons of good background information on the use, care, and rationale behind knives, without a hard sales pitch. My favorite place to point friends who become curious about knives.

  • #1: I didn't mention Damascus steel anywhere in my post. I was talking about the process used for making Japanese swords.

    #2: That bit about sticking slaves with red-hot swords is crap. What you're thinking of is the tameshigiri, where they used to try out the completed blade on criminals. I've seen an old illustration that gave several hundred locations on the body that could be used for this purpose, with varying degrees of difficulty.
  • Actually, I wonder if perhaps the wrong tack was taken in re. elephants and ivory. Why not allow them to be farmed for their tusks? We farm cattle for their meat, and we see no drop-off in oxen. Why, there are probably more domesticated cattle than there are wild cattle.

    As it is, the ivory trade is still around, but is utterly unregulated. Legalise it, regulate it and then we can save elephants as a species while still using ivory piano keys, billiard balls, knife handles, tie tacks &c. It's an attractive substance with many uses; why not use it?

  • My main concern is - how many mana slots are there? Are they linked? What's the AP growth like? 'Cause unless these are really great, I'm holding onto my Ragnarok.

    *N
  • I think the main reasons people don't turn ivory into the fur industry is because:

    1. Elephants are expensive to aquire.

    2. They don't breed quickly nor do they mature quickly.

    3. The amount of feed and pens sizeable enough to hold a community of elephants is really expensive.

    4. To get all the ivory off an animal you have to kill it, no resale value/donate to reservations PR value.

    Take these into consideration with the current price of ivory and you'll find that it simply isn't cost efficient. To have a nice shiny carved ivory knife handle you need to have poachers ready to slay elephants in the wild into near extiction as they have done and are still trying to do. That is cost-efficient.
  • We are all made of material that pre-dates the formation of the Solar System. (most) All the heavy particles every made were ejected from a Super Nova. That's how heavy elements are made. Everything on our planet (other than a small amount of Reactor Ort and some bits created in particle accelerators) is made of Star Dust.

    Just like the stank hippy said," We are Stardust, we are golden, we are billion year old carbon".
  • Where can I buy a Solid Gold Shotgun?!?! I want it! I need it!

  • The prices of these things can be found here [hiwaay.net].

    The are rather expensive, at about $800 - $2100 each! Cool though...

    --Nicholas

  • um.. no. that is folding and makes what is sometimes called 'Water{ed} Steel' Damascus was made by using two different kinds of steel folded together not just one kind of steel folded over and over.

  • Oops, almost forgot-holds an edge very well (Score:3)

    by N8F8 ( 4562 ) on Friday June 02, 2000 @06:50PM (#1028735)
    I almost forgot to mention that thses blades also hold an edge very well. Probably due to the many stiff layers at the blade edge.

  • Not new.. (Score:3)

    by technos ( 73414 ) on Friday June 02, 2000 @07:39PM (#1028740) Homepage Journal
    I own one. (Not from this compamy; A decade older, secondhand from a buddy that need the money, much less expensive)

    They're knives, tools. Why anyone would want one at these [assumed] prices is beyond me. I haven't even taken mine out of the Lucite case, because the manufacturer assured me that in order to maintain a high concentration of 'extra-terrestrial' material they needed to make serious comprimises on the usefulness of the implement. Soft, easily dulled, terribly malleable and often in-the-box magnetic [as is mine].

    We're all proletarian; Buy yourself a nice Gerber Gatorback or a Leatherman and laugh at any fool who would buy one. The Case C10 is VERY nice, if you can find one. I've carried three, but the price on antique knives is escalating so I've switched to said Gerber.

  • What have you been smoking? Ever looked through a telescope? Rest assured, Jupiter, its moons, the rings of Saturn, and asteroids are real. OK, I never actually saw an asteroid through a telescope, but I've read articles written by people who have, and I don't have any reason to doubt them. Oh, and as someone who also believes in God, I'd like to remind the rest of you that this nut cake is not representative.

  • From the site:

    Meteorites are more rare than any other material on earth.

    I'm just being picky here, but I would guess almost all of the radioactive materials are less available than meteorites. After all they have half lifes. But who want a radioactive knife?

    Imagine trying to defend yourself:
    Stand back.... or I'll give you cancer... and you will die in five years if you don't get proper treatment!!!!

  • I wanna get a glass knife (single atom width) that Raven from Stephenson's book Snow Crash uses. Anyone know when will something like that be possible?

    --
    GroundAndPound.com [groundandpound.com] News and info for martial artists of all styles.

  • Re:Damascene Steel (Score:5)

    by BJH ( 11355 ) on Friday June 02, 2000 @06:53PM (#1028756)

    Often they create blades that have been folded thousands of times.

    This isn't quite precise; the Japanese swordsmiths usually fold it from 8-10 times, but as any self-respecting geek could tell you, that gives you a total number of layers of 256-1024.

    In most cases some form of carbon steel is used

    The Japanese process uses charred rice husks; they coat the iron with the husks, heat it and knock of the excess. If done correctly, it provides just the right amount of carbon to harden the blade (if you overdo it, the blade will be too brittle).

  • Correct (Score:2)

    by N8F8 ( 4562 )
    Yes, I seem to recall somthing about mixing alloys. Some of the patterns that can be formed are pretty cool too. Another recent advancement is a company invented a method of producing stainless steel pseudo Damascene steel from powdered metal. Inexpensive and very pretty.

  • Re:Isn't the formula for damascus steel lost??? (Score:5)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 02, 2000 @06:56PM (#1028761)
    It's a modern replica. Damascus steel is essentially very high carbon steel, which would normally be as brittle as glass, but extensively hot worked to retain some ductility. Old Damascus steel was made of sponge iron painstakingly extracted as little nuggets and hammered together into larger pieces on a wooden anvil. The wood naturally carbonized and surface coatings of the carbon got successively layered into and the metallic matrix forming Fe3C. The carbide content gives the metal its edge and strength; the softer iron matrix it's ductility. Modern "Damascus" steels are almost always come from molten iron stock, which unlike the never molten sponge irons, has major ductility problems right from the start which precludes the hot working necessar to make it sufficiently ductile. To get around this, they use a soft low carbon core with layers of high carbon "Damascus" on top. It works OK, but it's not a true Damascus. To make a true Damascus, you need a primitive iron ore reducing fire, infinite patience to make sure all your sponge iron nuggets get chemically reduced without melting ore getting too much crud in them, a stong hammering arm, a wooden anvil, a non-flaking stone hammer, and, yes, a lot more time to keep working and working this thing over a course of weeks or months until it reaches the right combination of hardness/ductility. You /could/ make a modern Damascus the old way, but it would really try the patience and definitely not be economic.

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