Disposable Face Masks Used During Covid Have Left Chemical Timebomb (theguardian.com) 159
alternative_right shares a report from The Guardian: It has been estimated that during the height of the coronavirus pandemic 129bn disposable face masks, mostly made from polypropylene and other plastics, were being used every month around the world. With no recycling stream, most ended up either in landfill or littered in streets, parks, beaches, waterways and rural areas, where they have now begun to degrade. Recent research has reported a significant presence of disposable face masks in both terrestrial and aquatic environments.
They left newly bought masks of several different kinds for 24 hours in flasks containing 150ml of purified water, then filtered the liquid through a membrane to see what came out. Every mask examined ... leached microplastics, but it was the FFP2 and FFP3 masks -- marketed as the gold-standard protection against the transmission of the virus -- that leached the most, releasing four to six times as many. And they made an even more worrying discovery.
Subsequent chemical analysis of the leachate found medical masks also released bisphenol B, an endocrine-disrupting chemical that acts like oestrogen when absorbed into the bodies of humans and animals. Taking into account the total amount of single-use face masks produced during the height of the pandemic, the researchers estimated they led to the release of 128-214kg of bisphenol B into the environment. [The researchers wrote that "approximately 128â"214 kg of BPB were released into the environment each day from those masks."] The findings have been published in the journal Environmental Pollution.
They left newly bought masks of several different kinds for 24 hours in flasks containing 150ml of purified water, then filtered the liquid through a membrane to see what came out. Every mask examined ... leached microplastics, but it was the FFP2 and FFP3 masks -- marketed as the gold-standard protection against the transmission of the virus -- that leached the most, releasing four to six times as many. And they made an even more worrying discovery.
Subsequent chemical analysis of the leachate found medical masks also released bisphenol B, an endocrine-disrupting chemical that acts like oestrogen when absorbed into the bodies of humans and animals. Taking into account the total amount of single-use face masks produced during the height of the pandemic, the researchers estimated they led to the release of 128-214kg of bisphenol B into the environment. [The researchers wrote that "approximately 128â"214 kg of BPB were released into the environment each day from those masks."] The findings have been published in the journal Environmental Pollution.
This is getting annoying (Score:2, Insightful)
33% of Republicans think vaccines don't work (Score:5, Insightful)
It's an absolute fact that Republican policies are bad for republicans, everyone else too.
When you run the country like that and you are still nominally a democracy you have to offer your voters some reason to vote for you besides the economy. No matter how much propaganda you throw at them some, really most, are going to figure out that you're bad for the economy and for their livelihoods.
The Republican party lives and dies by moral panics. Vaccination is now a moral panic. It's the one that's going to replace transphobia as it runs its course.
That's really the problem. You always need a new moral panic. After the Republicans stole the supreme Court and filled it with corrupt sycophants they moved on to transphobia and rapid on set gender dysphoria but that's gradually running its course as people figure out that it's bullshit too and so now vaccination is the new moral panic.
If you can figure out what the next one is going to be after vaccination is done then you have a extremely lucrative career as a Republican strategist ahead of you. Like as in you can make millions. All you have to do is serve up your fellow Americans chopped up on a plate.
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So you've got the ingredients (Score:2)
Initially transphobia pissed people off because they want it Republicans to focus on economic issues. They lost a couple of house races over it.
They kept trying and somebody came up with the idea of rapid onset gender dysphoria or the idea that somebody could just magically make your kid trans. Then they had a fake study done to prove it and spread it around and scared the shit out of people.
That p
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Re: 33% of Republicans think vaccines don't work (Score:2, Informative)
67% Republican here.
Vaccines work for what they do. They're not a magic forcefield or a lucky charm that wards off demons. Making public policy as if vaccination were a lucky charm isn't winning any intelligence contests against the 5g microchips crowd. And insisting that kneejerk mandates for nth shots are a rational response to changing data didn't win any honesty contests either.
Similarly, the monkeys mindlessly repeating the alarm call to wear a mask no matter what, even if the what is watering your flo
Just out of curiosity (Score:2, Troll)
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Herd immunity is kinda a magic charm though. It even protects the unvaccinated to an extent.
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accines work for what they do. They're not a magic forcefield or a lucky charm that wards off demons. Making public policy as if vaccination were a lucky charm isn't winning any intelligence contests against the 5g microchips crowd. And insisting that kneejerk mandates for nth shots are a rational response to changing data didn't win any honesty contests either.
What a dishonest argument. No one with any authority pushing vaccines claimed they were "magic forcefields" that would stop everything. That's just a conservative strawman (that I've heard a very tiring number of times). Never the less they are absolutely huge in stopping the spread of disease. Just look at small pox, polio, etc...
Re: 33% of Republicans think vaccines don't work (Score:2)
That's the point: dumb fucks on one side were disappointed it wasn't a magic forcefield and dumb fucks on the other side continued to act like it was.
Too much hfcs in the brain, all around.
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No, the other side is forcing others into medical treatments against their will when you know or ought to know there is no more public health justification for it. If COVID jab does not prevent transmission, what right do you have to demand that others take it?
Who specifically is demanding that others take it? And who is being forced against their will? Health-care workers and some military personnel are required to get certain vaccinations. Who else?
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Who specifically is demanding that others take it? And who is being forced against their will? Health-care workers and some military personnel are required to get certain vaccinations. Who else?
Here's a list [wikipedia.org] for you. At one point, OSHA demanded every employer with more than 100 employees require everyone be vaccinated or undergo weekly testing. "Some" military personnel was actually "all" military personnel. All federal contractors. All federal employees. Noncitizens utilizing air travel. All government workers in 15 states. Teachers in multiple states.
I'm not some anti-vax nutjob, I got vaccinated when it became available because I am in multiple high risk groups, but it's infuriating to s
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Here's a list [wikipedia.org] for you. At one point, OSHA demanded every employer with more than 100 employees require everyone be vaccinated or undergo weekly testing. "Some" military personnel was actually "all" military personnel.
Thanks for the information. I wasn't paying attention to these issues at the time.
Also, the statement I originally replied to was, "the other side is forcing others into medical treatments against their will when you know or ought to know there is no more public health justification for it." So history from 2021 or 2022 is not relevant to that statement, which is what I was questioning.
A few more notes: for example, "demanded every employer with more than 100 employees require everyone be vaccinated or u
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No, the other side is forcing others into medical treatments against their will when you know or ought to know there is no more public health justification for it. If COVID jab does not prevent transmission, what right do you have to demand that others take it?
Anyone remember football coaches getting fired? Has science become just performative?
Nick Rolovich [wikipedia.org]: "On October 18, 2021, Rolovich, along with defensive tackles coach Ricky Logo, cornerbacks coach John Richardson, quarterbacks coach Craig Stutzmann, and offensive line coach Mark Weber, was fired for failing to comply with Washington's COVID-19 vaccine mandate for state employees."
Ex-Washington State coach Nick Rolovich speaks out on why he didn't comply with state's vaccine mandate [espn.com]"
NPR: ""Thousands of workers are opting to get fired, rather than take the vaccine" [npr.org] (October 24, 2021)
Th
Re: 33% of Republicans think vaccines don't work (Score:3, Informative)
Do try to keep up, will you?
https://youtube.com/shorts/Hc1... [youtube.com]
"Trump touted the polio vaccine, calling it "amazing," and added that "a lot of people that the COVID (vaccine) is amazing."
"I think you have to be very careful when you say that some people don't have to be vaccinated. It's a very, you know, it's a very tough position," Trump said.
He added: "Look, you have vaccines that work. They just pure and simple work. They're not controversial at all. And I think those vaccines should be used, otherwise som
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To quote another post [slashdot.org]:
Oh for the love of god, please fuck right off
RFK Jr. is busy destroying the infrastructure in the US that supports vaccines. People he appointed are resigning because he was asking them to LIE, repeatedly.
Nobody should give a shit what Trump says in one video, one day, because he says anything people want to hear. You should instead be paying attention to his actions, and his actions are to leave RFK Jr. in place while he blocks (and YES HE IS FUCKING BLOCKING) access to vaccines.
Ther
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Nobody is trying to block polio vaccines, MMR vaccines etc
You sure about that one? [bbc.com] (And yes, I know, eliminating a mandate to be vaccinated is not the same thing as "blocking" vaccinations. But it's functionally equivalent.)
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It's an absolute fact that Republican policies are bad for republicans
Indeed. Polls show that most Americans agree with that.
The problem is that they think the Democrats are even worse.
Democrats need to stop obsessing about Trump and figure out why America isn't buying what they're selling.
The midterms are 14 months away. If the Democrats are, once again, unable to articulate a positive agenda that addresses the concerns of working-class voters, the outcome won't be good.
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Re: This is getting annoying (Score:2)
"Vaccines, COVID, masking, conspiracies, Trump. All in a gigantic doom loop that's not worth re-visiting ad nauseam."
But is 't the motto here, "news for nerds; stuff that matters." Those all sound like they matter.
"So just stop already. And please, stop with the microplastics while you're at it."
Ok, Chicken Little. Sticking your head in the sand and going LALALALALALALALALAL (*raspberries/fart sound*) because reality refuses to conform to your personal beliefs? Your head is so far up your ass! Grow up.
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> And please, stop with the microplastics while you're at it.
I get it but I'm glad I learned that most chewing gum is made of polyethylene now, so I've stopped using it.
I would not have been chewing it if I knew it was plastic and not tree resins.
Amazingly the FDA Act was first passed to make labeling mandatory. Now FDA allows manufacturers to lie and hide ingredients.
This is what happens when you ignore the Tenth Amendment.
Not only was they turning our women into (Score:2)
burqa'd up secret muslims,
Subsequent chemical analysis of the leachate found medical masks also released bisphenol B, an endocrine-disrupting chemical that acts like oestrogen when absorbed into the bodies of humans and animals
they was turning our menfolk into frogs...and then turning the frogs gay!
Perfect example of bad science (Score:5, Insightful)
They compared a common type of covid face mask with surgical masks.
Things they did not do that would make this real science, instead of click bait junk science:
1) Compare with other common disposable items such as straws, plastic bags, plastic cups, etc. etc. Better yet, compare with the 6 major types of plastics (PET, HDPE, PVC, LDPE, PP, PS) Those are the numbers 1-6 on the recycle symbol used in the USA.
2) Compare with a ton of random garbage from a legal land fill.
So we have no idea if those numbers are high, normal, or low. All we were told is that modern materials give off chemicals with strange sounding names. Also, some of those chemicals are bad for you in sufficiently high quantities.
That is not news. If you are shocked that modern materials give off chemicals, or that some of them are bad for you in high amounts, you should sit down and pour yourself a stiff drink before doing some googling about the topic.
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That is not news. If you are shocked that materials give off chemicals, or that some of them are bad for you in high amounts, you should...
FTFY.
The pre-modern era had plenty of dangerous substances, too. Probably the deadliest was woodsmoke (way worse than microplastics in practice, though it doesn't accumulate the same way), but there were plenty of others. The modern era has added variety and subtlety, but that latter point is mostly just because we've gotten good at recognizing and mitigating the acute and/or obvious harms.
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Agreed, 404 Journalism Not Found - put it into context. Also, a properly managed land fill does not leak into the environment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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Things they did not do that would make this real science, instead of click bait junk science:
Thanks for telling us real science is only the question you want answered rather than the question being studied. The entire study was about comparing the leachate of different face coverings. If you want a different study then go do *your* study instead.
So we have no idea if those numbers are high, normal, or low.
It's almost like you could read up other studies and compare them.
Let me guess, you don't think physics is real because we haven't identify a grand unified theory yet?
But what about wearing masks (Score:3)
The study worries about what the remains of face masks ending up in the environment and though a lot of indirect means, come back to us.
Ok, but how does it compare to wearing masks. I am not just talking about the pandemic, I am thinking about medical and construction workers wearing respirators similar to COVID masks all day as they are working. All of the air they breath is filtered though these plastic fibers. Ok, these masks are presumably in good shape and not decomposing, but they are also ideally located to make everything that can go loose go right into our bodies, bisphenol and all.
With that in mind, had masks been that bad, we should see an effect on people working with masks all day. Which, by the way, is likely to include those who conduct these kinds of experiments.
New movie (Score:2)
Coming to a theater near you.
He didn't wear a mask...
He didn't get the vaccine...
He didn't social distance...
and now he's coming for you... to make you clean up the mess!
Everything has a dark side (Score:3)
IV bags and tubes also transmit microplastics...directly into the blood stream. But those same IV bags and tubes, save a whole lot of lives. So far, there hasn't been a single documented case of a person becoming sick or dying from microplastics from IV tubes.
Doctors and nurses and dentists have been wearing them long before COVID because...they are effective at what they do. How many doctors--who have worn these masks for their entire careers--have died from inhalation of microplastics? If this were a common problem in the medical profession, it would have been a thing long ago.
How about let's take a balanced approach to risk. Microplastics might (but it hasn't ben proven) cause some health problems for some people. But plastics are *known* to save a lot of lives through their use in healthcare, and are used in countless ways to improve patient health, and food safety. Plastic doesn't deserve to be demonized as it has been in recent times.
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"there hasn't been a single documented case of a person becoming sick or dying from microplastics from IV tubes"
Ha! No self-respecting researcher would ever attempt to document this, nor get funding to do so. It's like a drop in the bucket for exposures, and once the particle size is small enough they pass through cell membranes and (gasp!) into the bloodstream.
Otherwise, thanks for the muddled lesson in harm reduction.
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No self-respecting researcher would ever attempt to document this
Huh? There is ton's of microplastics research going on. On such project is literally the subject of the article we are discussing. What makes you say no one would try to document sickness or death due to microplastics?
It's not a lack of research, it's a lack of meaningful research. The research has documented that microplastics are everywhere, and that they are scattered throughout our bodies, and that they can pierce a cell wall. What the research hasn't documented, is that microplastics pose some kind of
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I'm asserting that no researcher would undertake a study on so small a question as to document even a single "case of a person becoming sick or dying from microplastics from IV tubes".
Sure, sure--keep telling yourself there isn't a meaningful difference between, say, artheriosclerosis due to molecule-by-molecule deposition and an agglomeration of microplastics.
It's like saying there isn't a difference in your sewer pipes between decades of buildup from minerals and that event you're out finding the plunger
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Well of course not! Your response misses the point entirely.
If microplastics are a health problem at all, it will be affecting far more than "one" person. It will be affecting thousands, millions of people. But despite researchers' many efforts to find a link between microplastics and health, none has yet been found. Yes, they've found that if you inject large amounts of microplastics directly into the bloodstream, it can cause strokes. But no study has found that "normal" environmental amounts of microplas
Re: Everything has a dark side (Score:2)
Remember when doctors were against handwashing before surgery because what you can't see can't hurt you? Are they blind to things like microplastics today?
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The difference is, lack of handwashing, has been linked directly to mortality and disease spread. There is no such research linking microplastics to disease or mortality.
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What's your point? I literally just pointed to the fact that handwashing has many studies that directly link it to prevention of disease and death, and that that is how handwashing is different from microplastics (for which there is no research demonstrating harm in real life).
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So far, there hasn't been a single documented case of a person becoming sick or dying from microplastics from IV tubes.
There's not been a documented case of short term or causal linkage no. At no point has any study into microplastics said that they are immediately fatal in our blood. At best they have been directly linked to inflammation, and loosely linked to increase in cancer rates. With only a non-causal relationship established in the latter you'll never find a documented case of a person becoming sick or dying from microplastics in IV tubes, even if they do in fact get sick or die from microplastics in IV tubes.
The p
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I don't think your illustration fits. You rightly said that microplastics are everywhere. You have only one car in one place.
If you go with the concept of cars being everywhere (like microplastics) you shouldn't jaywalk across a highway, because there is a high risk you will be injured or killed. IF microplastics are similarly dangerous, we would expect to see people being injured, poisoned, or killed, in massive numbers. But we don't. We should be seeing at least some portion of autopsies concluding that t
Do we really need scientific report to learn this? (Score:2)
Its something thats concerned me from the get-go. But lets get real - these masks and other microplastics laden disposables are defacto in pretty much all hospitals and care institutions across the world.
The day we spend more time tackling the problem instead of researching the fucking obvious again and again without making changes to our way of life will never come.
In fact Global-Socio Economic collapse is more likely than not in the next 5-10 years.
And thats ignoring the fact that its set against a backg
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Anarchists believe in abolishing authority, hierarchy, and coercion, primarily by ending the state and capitalism, and replacing them with stateless societies organized through voluntary free associations. They advocate for self-governance, collective decision-making, and mutual aid, emphasizing freedom and equality in the absence of coercive institutions.
Irrelevant (Score:2)
Let the chemical masks leach microplastics. It's not like anyone should be anywhere near any leachate from an industrial landfill site. The focus should be on managing the *orders of magnitude worse* crap in that landfill from entering the food chain / water table. Demonising the masks is like complaining about a papercut on your finger while you're bleeding out due to your leg having been ripped off.
Now I know where my man-boobs are from (Score:2)
Respirators (Score:2)
>"Every mask examined ... leached microplastics, but it was the FFP2 and FFP3 masks -- marketed as the gold-standard protection against the transmission of the virus"
FFP2, FFP3, N95 are not "masks", they are respirators. And yes, they are the gold-standard because they actually work when fitted, worn, and handled properly. And they were probably a very, very tiny fraction of the trillions of mostly ineffective face coverings used.
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FFP2, FFP3, N95 are not "masks", they are respirators.
FFP2, FFP3, N95 are not respirators, they are standards. And if a device meeting the standard is strapped to your face, then it is a mask. There are also typically-shaped N95 masks without cartridges. They have short lifespans, but they do exist.
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>"FFP2, FFP3, N95 are not respirators, they are standards."
They are standards for respirators. Generally, respirators create a seal to the face and masks do not. I have worked with dozens of various types.
>"if a device meeting the standard is strapped to your face, then it is a mask."
Nobody in the medical field (at least in my experience in the USA) calls a procedure mask or surgical mask a "respirator" nor a respirator a "mask."
https://www.fda.gov/medical-de... [fda.gov]
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respirator
noun
resÂâpiÂâraÂâtor Ëre-spÉ(TM)-ËOErÄ-tÉ(TM)r
plural respirators
1: a mask or device worn over the mouth and nose to protect the respiratory system
Try learning English before you try to argue in English.
If English is your first or only language, do better. Much, much better.
Seems like (Score:2)
Timebomb? Really? (Score:2)
Bring Back the Cold War. (Score:2)
Kid just had covid (Score:2)
My daughter had a scheduled check-up with a pediatrician, and was having all the razor blade throat covid symptoms. So I called ahead and asked if we should reschedule. Nope, they said. Should she wear a mask? Nope, they said. They said they don't even test for it anymore.
Weird. I remember having my kids tested through a car window in a parking lot by a lab tech in a biohazard suit.
That sucked.
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It's almost like at one point it was a novel virus that was spreading like wildfire, that we didn't know how to treat well, didn't have the medical resources available if severe cases spiked too high, didn't understand the transmission characteristics well, and so were cautious.
Whereas, now we have vaccines, we have anti-virals, everyone has already been exposed (making it not a novel virus anymore), we failed to contain it and it is now well along the way to being endemic, and thus you treat it very differ
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There is a recycling stream (Score:2)
Re:My mask your mask (Score:5, Informative)
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129B masks per month is 16 masks for every man, woman, and child on Earth. That's a new mask every other day for everyone.
That's implausible.
Most of the world never masked. Those who did, didn't use a new mask every day. People didn't wear masks at home. Etc.
I used disposable masks for a week or more each. Then I switched to cloth masks, and disposed of no more.
The real number is likely a tenth of what they estimate.
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129B masks per month is 16 masks for every man, woman, and child on Earth. That's a new mask every other day for everyone.
I used one disposable mask for the entire pandemic. It was pretty funky after two years.
Re: My mask your mask (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh for the love of god, please fuck right off
Re: My mask your mask (Score:5, Insightful)
O O
Re: My mask your mask (Score:5, Insightful)
The masks were stupid. Everyone lifted them up to do business in public, everyone was breathing out their car windows in traffic while people drive in long straight lines breathing each others air from non-airtight vehicles.
This is confused at multiple levels, but does almost touch on a valid point. It is true that a lot of people were awful maskers, and lifted up their masks all the time, or had terrible seals, making their masks not function. And then you had people doing things like wearing masks in indoor restaurants and then taking them off when they sat down to eat as if their dining table was somehow protected. And if you go back to Slashdot, you'll see me explicitly saying that all of this was awful behavior. People failing to mask properly isn't a problem with masks though any more than people dying in car accidents due to not wearing their seatbelts is a sign that seatbelts don't work. And the point about car windows out non-airtight cars misses something we figured out pretty early in the pandemic, namely that outdoor environments in general were pretty safe.
People became immune to covid without needing a hundred vaccines. No masks now and everyone is okay arent they.
People didn't need a hundred vaccines, but we're still getting new covid variants, and vaccines are still helping prevent people from getting seriously sick. Vaccines worked, and they drastically saved lives. Here is a really good essay about that https://www.natesilver.net/p/the-2-key-facts-about-us-covid-policy [natesilver.net] which shows how prior to the vaccines, death rates in the US among Democrats and Republicans looked nearly identical and only after vaccines showed up they started diverging. There's one easy explanation for that. And it is worth noting that the author there Nate Silver, generally takes the position (and argues explicitly in that piece) that mask mandates were not substantially effective, even as vaccines worked really well. It may be worth realizing that while you somehow see vaccines and masks as interconnected issues, they aren't, and not everyone falls into the vaccines-bad-masks-bad and vaccines-good-masks-good categories. To use two fun anecdotes: One of the most strict maskers I know was a couple who were highly anti-vax and was also taking HCQ as a preventative. One of the most vocally pro-vax people I know is a Rabbi who despised not getting to see his congregant's faces and was pushing for the vaccines so people would feel comfortable unmasking. Maybe don't treat all matters as some giant soccer game with two large sizes?
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Maybe not. But since you're an adult you thought to cut the buzzers instead of the seat belt, a useful safety device that you reasonably use as intended.
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In my car, I have an after-market satellite radio and navigation system installed. Every time I turn on the car, I get some idiotic disclaimer saying not to use it while driving. The system takes a few seconds to boot up, so often I'm already started and in reverse by the time the stupid warning comes up. I back out, shift into drive, and start moving. Then I see the stupid warning, and it distracts me to dismiss it so I see the damned map. So it accomplishes nothing, and actually worsens what it tries to p
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So the manufacturer can't get sued if someone misuses the navigation system. My friend's Lexus has the same "feature" .
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So it accomplishes nothing, and actually worsens what it tries to prevent.
Its like those state sponsored road side signs that were popular about 20 years ago that said “Keep your eyes on the road”. Sigh..
Re: My mask your mask (Score:2)
You were safe until you decided to change settings in the car in the middle of the night on a busy road. YOU put yourself at risk, not the safety lock on changing settings in the car.
I note you failed to mention what settings you thought were so important to change that you forced your friend to pull off on the shoulder so you could make a change.
No one told you to park on the shoulder, you could have waited for a rest area or proper parking spot.
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I don't quite get why people insist they love personal vehicles, yet put themselves a
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I don't quite get why people insist they love personal vehicles, ...
because you can choose to go where you want whenever you want. Public transit and ride share/taxis either follow a designated route that may or may not put you where you need to go, or have to be waited on the get you where you want to go. Speeding while holding your middle finger out the window is just a nice benefit on top of the convenience.
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But you can't actually. You're legally limited on where you can drive, where you can stop, where you can get out, and where you can leave it - either when you can do those things or if you can do them at all. You have to stay within range of a gas or charging station. Etc.
And if so much time is saved by using a personal vehicle, why can people not take a few more seconds to pull out or a few more minutes to stop somewhere safe and change set
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Are you saying that the safety inspector should approve you not putting your seatbelt on until after the car is moving? Something about the name "safety inspector" suggests to me that they might not be entirely comfortable with the driver taking one hand off the wheel and twisting slightly in their seat to reach over their shoulder while driving.
Re: My mask your mask (Score:2)
Perhaps the idea of waiting till the car is moving for the driver to put on their seat belt could be considered, oh, I don't know, distracting to a driver in a moving vehicle?
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Perhaps the idea of waiting till the car is moving for the driver to put on their seat belt could be considered, oh, I don't know, distracting to a driver in a moving vehicle?
Don't you think it's a bit unnecessary to add a beeping sound to tell a driver to wear a seat belt? New Hampshire is the only US state that doesn't have a law requiring seat belts, so every(ish) new driver learns the requirement (I didn't check laws in other countries). Your car doesn't beep when it exceeds the speed limit. Every car doesn't check you BAC before starting the car. Why are seat belts special? I always use one and will continue to use one, but in all the years I've driven, I've never been driv
Re: My mask your mask (Score:5, Insightful)
People didn't need a hundred vaccines, but we're still getting new covid variants, and vaccines are still helping prevent people from getting seriously sick
Seriously? After everyone vaccinated, myself included, had multiple rounds of COVID you are still insisting that jabs did anything?
It eradicated the original strain, which was far more deadly than the strains that came after it. Would it have eventually died out without the vaccine? Sure. Would a lot more people have died first? Also yes.
They did not work on variants and did not prevent infection or transmission. Plus, they came with a small chance of serious side effects and we are still not finished with excessive deaths do to that.
False on all counts. In infectious diseases, there's a term: minimum infectious dose. It's not a precise number, but basically, if you get exposed to fewer than a certain number of virus particles, your immune system will shut down the attack without you getting sick. That's preventing infection, and by reducing transmission, the vaccine prevented countless infections.
And no, there's no reason to believe that there were any significant number of excess deaths from the vaccine. Quite the opposite. If you factor in the number of deaths that it prevented, the vaccine reduced deaths massively.
Even if you stupidly don't do that, realistically speaking, approximately everyone who died from the vaccine almost certainly would have also died from COVID.
But even if you even-more-stupidly ignore that reality, and even if you incredibly foolishly assume that every case of myocarditis after COVID vaccination was caused by the vaccine and not by concurrent COVID infection, we would still be talking about only a few hundred to a few thousand deaths in total worldwide. So the worst-case, most ultra-paranoid interpretation of the data results in a few thousand deaths versus about 14.4 *million* lives saved.
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So the worst-case, most ultra-paranoid interpretation of the data results in a few thousand deaths
You have no idea what you are talking about on excessive deaths. Start reading here [ourworldindata.org]
Wait, so you actually believe that all those excess deaths that were attributed to COVID infection were actually caused by the vaccine? Sorry, I'm having trouble keeping a straight face here.
After the emergence of the Omicron variant, however, the number of infections surged dramatically in Japan in 2022, despite more than 80% of the population having been fully vaccinated. Surprisingly, the number of excess deaths per million in Japan exceeded 1400 in 2023, three times higher than that in the United States, whereas COVID-19 deaths in Japan accounted for only 10% of these excess deaths.
For this to have been caused by the vaccine would require there being some plausible causal relationship between the specific types of deaths and the vaccine, which they have not shown, despite some vague hand-waving about estrogen receptors.
The fact that they're claiming that only 10% of the excess deaths were caused
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Wait, so you actually believe that all those excess deaths that were attributed to COVID infection were actually caused by the vaccine?
I didn't know Cathy Newman had a /. account. In the very quote you supposedly responding to, the very first link, the very first paragraph:
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Deaths due to vaccines are rare, but in case of mRNA shots they are 100x what is normally seen from vaccinations.
Between 10 and 50 ppm deaths occur after widespread vaccination. I checked this after a friend told me his sister died ages ago after receiving a government forced polio vaccination. 100x 50 ppm is 0.5%, half the death rate of COVID-19, which would have been ultra obvious anywhere. 100x 10 ppm is 0.1%, which any field related scientist would have gotten onto the table anywhere. I call your 100x point nonsense.
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Post-Omicron excessive deaths data indicates this is not the case with mRNA on both causes and lower mortality data.
Because without that, I think you don't actually have any point. And your view on any signal that something else / bad would be going on makes for a strong contrast with your previous statement of 100x higher mortality rate of mRNA vaccines. Again, if the numbers are even 5 to 10 times higher than with other vaccines, it would have gotten detected. Unless you think that all countries with adequate medical science levels are keeping things under wraps.
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A quick search turned up this paper from Florida.
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Based on that, I reached the following conclusion: mRNA jabs result in random tissue damage throughou
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Regarding point c, I'm not sure if you're talking about the added components in mRNA jabs, but if so, my understanding is that that content is a standard component in various vaccines, which is one reason why mRNA vaccines could be released so quickly
This is incorrect understanding. To summarize, mRNA jabs function categorically different from traditional inactivated or weakened virus vaccines. mRNA vaccines function similarly to a virus, getting you body's own cells to produce virus components (spike protein) instead of injecting these. The downside to mRNA is that your body treats cells producing these spike protein and kills them off. If that happens to be vitally important tissue, such as heart muscle, then you get heart damage. There is no control
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Regarding adverse advent databases, until 2020 outside of the medical world, people didn't know about those, and all the clamouring of anti vaxxers has made it impossible to compare numbers straight away.
Regarding Jap
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aside the mRNA, which are commonly used in medicinally administrated injections,
I don't think this is true or at least I am not aware of any messenger RNA treatments that were approved prior to COVID jab. I know there were efforts to use it in various tailored cancer treatments, but that was always done as experimental treatment. Yes, the technology has been under development since 90s and is still under development today. COVID jab had to be released under emergency authorization because of that.
Regarding Japan, with 120 million people so roughly 90 million in the above 12yo age group that got jabbed, you're wondering about 903 deaths...?
This is data on payouts for 8432 severe injuries and 903 deaths that met the high burden
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I don't think this is true or at least I am not aware of any messenger RNA treatments that were approved prior to COVID jab.
My statement must have been unclear, I meant that mRNA as active ingredient in the jab needs additional liquids, which are lipids that are commonly used like in the flu shot and such.
The COVID jab was not released with lower testing, it was indeed released much faster than most other vaccines (this is true for all kinds, mRNA or other such as Sinovac and Jansen), but the situation didn't only call for that but it also allowed for that due to the vast amount of infections going around. So any statement of
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So what are your qualifications to claim that you know better than the specialists of all these countries?
Presented evidence that I see as sufficient proof that mRNA COVID jabs were not as advertised. Appeals to authority does not work for me, as I see NIH, HHS etc. betrayed my trust. I hope RFK Jr. is as damaging to these bureaucrats as the worst critics predict. They should have rescinded emergency authorization for mRNA jabs (or at least limit it to emergency personal) as soon as early safety data became available. They should have insisted safety trials were redone with larger population and for longer time
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What kind of training is necessary to wear a face mask that doesnt amount to the incredibly simple instructions that were plenty available during Covid?
My general response to every who support the lockdowns and mask policies and now tries to lecture me about civil rights is this. Well you did not stand up for mine because you were scared of a cold, so I am not standing up for yours now FUCK OFF>
Yes, we should all care about your nonsense because we insisted everyone participate in countermeasures to combating a significant disease epidemic. Give me a frick'n break.
Re: My mask your mask (Score:2)
Masks were the same. Just...more.
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Thats where it's different. When your exhalations are carrying COVID, you usually don't know. That was the whole problem: contagious before symptoms. Without that, no pandemic.
And that's why everyone needed a mask, even though it really only did anything when worn by the sick. Because you never knew if you were the sick one.
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If you were sick, and didn't know it, how often did you remove your mask to sneeze, or adjust it with your hands, which you then touched a public surface with?
How much LESS often did your hands go from face to public surface and vice-versa? How often do you even sneeze in public (I go for dog walks multiple times every day, in the city, through parks, and that's probably weekly to bi-weekly for me)? FYI, when I sneezed during masking, I simply held in my sneeze if outside of my home. If/when I could not do so, I would certainly keep the mask on, and also cover my face with my arm. Did you not!?!?
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No honestly this is where you cant explain away the I told ya so people who have every right to come out and point out when they were right and you were wrong.
People raise these thoughts in the beginning but are shut down by you people. So they set their watches and wait for the day when they are eventually proved right because you people were so adamant about forcing people into your ways.
I'm calling bullshit. Not even the biggest Covid deniers were saying anything about the chemicals that were used in making these face masks would pose a future environmental risk. You're just angry almost no one believes your nonsense conspiracies and so are looking for any excuse to complain about it.
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If I had to borrow a friend's car, and had a bad cold or the flu, I'd wear a mask while driving it. Just to be considerate. Or even MY OWN CAR if my wife or kids use it too.