Putin and Xi Caught Discussing Organ Transplants and Immortality 128
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Hill: Russian President Vladimir Putin and Chinese President Xi Jinping were caught on a hot mic discussing organ transplants and immortality at the military parade in Beijing on Wednesday. The two leaders were captured on the stream as they walked with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un at Tiananmen Square, with the Russian translator saying: "Biotechnology is continuously developing," according to Reuters. "Human organs can be continuously transplanted. The longer you live, the younger you become, and (you can) even achieve immortality," the translator added.
Xi responded by saying that some predict that humans could live up to "150 years old." The Kremlin head later confirmed that the two leaders discussed immortality. "Modern means of healing, and medical means, all kinds of surgical means related to organ replacement, they allow humanity to hope that active life will continue not as it does today. The average age in different countries is different, but nevertheless, life expectancy will increase significantly," Putin told reporters, according to CNN.
Xi responded by saying that some predict that humans could live up to "150 years old." The Kremlin head later confirmed that the two leaders discussed immortality. "Modern means of healing, and medical means, all kinds of surgical means related to organ replacement, they allow humanity to hope that active life will continue not as it does today. The average age in different countries is different, but nevertheless, life expectancy will increase significantly," Putin told reporters, according to CNN.
Larry Niven just felt his ears burn (Score:5, Interesting)
Guess he was right. Here we go.
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Re:Larry Niven just felt his ears burn (Score:5, Informative)
Candain attorneys uncover a minimum of 41,500 unaccounted for organ transplants in China from 2000 to 2005, most of which are imprisoned Falun Gong and Uyghurs forced into organ donation [scu.edu].
"Forced organ harvesting in China appears to be targeting specific ethnic, linguistic or religious minorities held in detention, often without being explained the reasons for arrest or given arrest warrants, at different locations." says panel of UN Human Rights experts. [ohchr.org]
Based on bed counts and other data, China conducts between 60,000 and 100,000 organ transplants per year, but their own records show in 2017 5,146 eligible donors resulting in 16,000 transplants. [mccaininstitute.org]
They are still harvesting organs from prisoners, and many of those prisoners are imprisoned minorities such as Uyghurs in Xinjiang and Falun Gong followers, people imprisoned for no crimes other than ethnicities or beliefs.
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And this all dates back to at least 1995. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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A Frenchman, an Englishman, and a New Yorker are captured by cannibals. The chief cannibal tells them that they are going to be killed, and their skins will be used to make canoes.
The chief, however, gives them the choice of how they want to die. The Frenchman says, “I will take ze sword.” He takes it, says “Viva la France!” and runs himself through.
Next, the Englishman says, “I will take the pistol.” He says, “God save the Queen!” and shoots himself in the head.
Finally, the New Yorker says, “Gimmie a fork.” The chief cannibal thinks this is kind of odd, but gives him the fork anyway. The newyorker starts stabbing himself all over with the fork. The chief cries, “What are you doing?!” and the newyorker screams, “So much for your fucking canoe!”
The US (New England, at least) has nothing to fear.
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The US (New England, at least) has nothing to fear.
Congratulations on pissing off both New Yorkers and New Englanders.
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Mod parent Funny, though at first I was confused the joke was from a grandparent post...
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This is why 'othering' groups of people is a terrible idea. It leads to treating them as subhuman and literally enslaving and/or murdering them for whatever the immediate cause or desired outcome is.
I have no doubt that if we'd had the science for organ transplants without immediate rejection ninety years ago, the Nazis would have had another step in their genocide, the operating theater.
In addition to Niven, the pilot episode of LEXX also featured organ harvesting, both as a punishment for petty crimes an
Re:Larry Niven - Patchwork Man (Score:5, Informative)
We're talking about people who openly deride others for being poor and consider empathy a weakness. Tell me you really believe it's a stretch that they would just consider healthy poor people as nothing more than resources to be harvested to improve their own life, or extend their life. Their less than polite predecessors weren't much better considering workers organic machines to be used and discarded when they died or were injured.
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However the most ghoulish form of "
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"I think any Nivenesque mass-executions-for-petty-crimes-to-fill-the-organ-banks thing will be a limited problem."
You mean like the ongoing mass genocide going on in China? Remember a few years back when they dissected a bunch of still living prisoners and plasticized their parted out corpses and then sent them on global tour to let everyone know they had labor camps full of genetically undesirable people and were highly skilled at harvesting their fresh organs for anyone with the cash?
Re: Larry Niven just felt his ears burn (Score:2)
Yeah that was disturbing. But also shame on the folks that visited these displays. If you did, you are part of the problem by encouraging it. China was very proud of these atrocities.
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Wouldn't even work unless they could do brain transplants. And if they could, chronic stupidity is a great medical basis for why Putin and Xi should be on the short list, though I'm not sure anybody would want to go walking around in those sleeves.
Re:Larry Niven just felt his ears burn (Score:4, Funny)
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Yep...God Bless Keith....gives us ALL hope.
Me?
I'm hoping to opt for the more "old fashioned" method of immortality...hoping a vampire will bite me and turn me into a vampire....
But whew...I need to lose a bit more weight first...I don't want to go through eternity with the current beer gut I'm still sporting....
But I live in New Orleans, so, guessing I stand a good chance on the vampire thin
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I'm hoping to opt for the more "old fashioned" method of immortality...hoping a vampire will bite me
That's not a good thing. Friend of mine was hoping for that as well and then some curly-haired weirdo took a big bite out of his jugular vein, and he was yelling and screaming and bleeding all over, and this guy just said "Hey, come on, don'tcha get it?", but he just kept rolling around on the sidewalk, bleeding, and screaming.
Dunning-Kruger effect live. (Score:5, Insightful)
Neither Putin nor Xi are medial experts. They are uneducated fools discussing something they know very little about. They think they are knowledgeable but are not.
As a transplant survivor I can tell you it is not that easy. Organ rejection sucks. Worse, sometimes the transplant an reject the body, rather than the other way around. The medication we currently use to delay organ rejection has horrible side effects beyond merely making you immunosuppressed (as in you can die from covid). Prednisone does a tone of stuff to you, including a high risk for Diabetes.
The kind of thing they want to be true would require solid human cloning. You need to grow the organ with your own DNA if you want to actually do this kind of transplant based immortality.
Could mankind get to 150 year life span? Quite likely - but we are just beginning the long road on that process.
Most of human life extension has NOT been extending human life to live longer, but instead stopping people from dying young. That is, cave men could easily live to 90 years old, just like modern man, but most of them died before the age of 20. In civilized countries that are not at war, we generally do not die as children any more.
That said, I strongly suspect that a baby born 200 years from now will most likely have a life expectancy of over 120 years. But we are no where near that yet.
Re:Dunning-Kruger effect live. (Score:5, Informative)
They're also totally disregarding another reality: The more transplants you receive, the more your immune system will reject the next one. Shit, even dialysis makes your immune system more picky about what organs it will accept the longer you do it.
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The more transplants you receive, the more your immune system will reject the next one.
An obvious solution is to split a blastocyst into twins, grow one to maturity, and grow the other for spare organs.
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Or just grow a bunch of clones later in life and use whichever ones work out. As long as it reaches maturity before you need any of it it would be fine. I don't think Putin or Xi would care much about the ethical concerns here either.
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Re: Dunning-Kruger effect live. (Score:2)
Too expensive. Each patient needs one unique to themselves, and won't ever be ready in time for an emergency. I think we'll have better luck breeding rh-null pigs. The best part is they'll eat anything, including soylent green.
Re: Dunning-Kruger effect live. (Score:4, Informative)
There are only two patients here, each has the backing of an entire country.
They're also not afraid of non-ethical research.
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They think that "The Eternal Life" by Jack Vance is a medical handbook.
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This isn't Dunning-Kruger. Dunning-Kruger is making an assertion of fact that is confidentially incorrect. It's more likely to people doing random chitchat.
If you haven't had these kinds of conversations, chances are you need to leave the basement.
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Thankyou for saying this.
Maybe one day we can get them to stop sharing the wrong curve too.
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Not random at all. Putin has lately been funding both this kind of research and also research into brain uploading.
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Wouldn't brain uploading suffer the same philosophical problem as the teleportation quandary?
The uploaded copy of you might have a seamless existence that feels like everything worked perfectly, but the original you is still going to be facing death either naturally if the scanning is not intrusive, or more likely turned into a million salami slices so each slice can be scanned and digitised during the scanning and uploading process.
Is it still you in the end?
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I don't get the philosophical problem, to be honest, because by that logic the me an hour ago would not be me either.
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Then take 10 years if you think one hour is not enough. Or being in coma or under general anaesthesia. And a computer is a bad comparison since it lacks identity narrative. As long as it is intact, it is the same person.
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The scanning would most certainly be destructive!
The best sci-fi versions I've heard of this where you don't die is where small parts of the brain are gradually replaced by electrical/mechanical equivalents, so eventually your whole brain is artificial and then you're functionally immortal; and your mind can just be removed and popped in a server rack or new body.
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And that is even less Dunning-Kruger since he's literally paying money to fund people to research something rather than proclaiming something himself.
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This isn't Dunning-Kruger. Dunning-Kruger is making an assertion of fact that is confidentially incorrect. It's more likely to people doing random chitchat.
Dunning Kruger is discredited nonsense. The meme is based on an expressed mismatch between personal perception of knowledge vs. actual knowledge. People misuse Dunning Kruger to imply a connection between confidence and lack of knowledge when in fact people in the study were just as likely to overshoot as undershoot.
https://digitalcommons.usf.edu... [usf.edu]
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Re: Dunning-Kruger effect live. (Score:2)
ern man, but most of them died before the age of 20
That's a statistical artefact. If they survived their infant years, the next station was the 1st heart attack, typically in their 60s, like us.
Of course there were wounds from war and accidents, but they weren't that common. Many wounds heal well by themselves, not every injury leaves you with your guts hanging out.
Re:Dunning-Kruger effect live. (Score:5, Insightful)
Neither Putin nor Xi are medi[c]al experts. They are uneducated fools discussing something they know very little about. They think they are knowledgeable but are not.
Well, it's a good job that they're not both megalomaniacal dictators with the entire resources of their respective nations at their beck and call, and a brutal security apparatus to enforce their whims and desires irrespective of their grounding in objective reality.
Oh, wait...
Re:Dunning-Kruger effect live. (Score:5, Interesting)
Neither Putin nor Xi are medi[c]al experts. They are uneducated fools discussing something they know very little about. They think they are knowledgeable but are not.
Well, it's a good job that they're not both megalomaniacal dictators with the entire resources of their respective nations at their beck and call, and a brutal security apparatus to enforce their whims and desires irrespective of their grounding in objective reality.
Oh, wait...
Nor are either of them clearly suffering from an excess of Hubris.
When it comes to a megalomaniacal dictator, hubris tends to be their downfall. They get too comfortable and forget that it's not just their enemies, but also their friends and subordinates that want to take a crack at it as well.
There's a reason that every time you see a Taliban big wig they're carrying an AK or PK over their shoulder. It's not that they want to look tough, its the fact the guy standing right behind them is already measuring the crown to see how well it fits.
With Xi and Putin, I think everyone is just waiting for them to shuffle off naturally although I wouldn't be surprised if they had an unfortunate accident.
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There's a reason that every time you see a Taliban big wig they're carrying an AK or PK over their shoulder. It's not that they want to look tough, its the fact the guy standing right behind them is already measuring the crown to see how well it fits.
Nah, in that context it's all about projecting a macho, alpha-status image, which they have to do to maintain dominance and position. It's the hubris that prevents them realising they've no chance of actually deploying their symbol of authority AK/PK before they get a pesh-kabz in the kidney.
With Xi and Putin, I think everyone is just waiting for them to shuffle off naturally although I wouldn't be surprised if they had an unfortunate accident.
Well, in Putin's Russia, involuntary defenestration counts as "natural causes."
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At least they're not drinking lead or something.
China kinda have a long tradition of looking for ways to get immortal by weird means.
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"I strongly suspect that a baby born 200 years from now will most likely have a life expectancy of over 120 years"
I strongly suspect pollution will limit that quite a bit.
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Neither Putin nor Xi are medial experts. They are uneducated fools discussing something they know very little about. They think they are knowledgeable but are not.
As a transplant survivor I can tell you it is not that easy. Organ rejection sucks. Worse, sometimes the transplant an reject the body, rather than the other way around. The medication we currently use to delay organ rejection has horrible side effects beyond merely making you immunosuppressed (as in you can die from covid). Prednisone does a tone of stuff to you, including a high risk for Diabetes.
The kind of thing they want to be true would require solid human cloning. You need to grow the organ with your own DNA if you want to actually do this kind of transplant based immortality.
Could mankind get to 150 year life span? Quite likely - but we are just beginning the long road on that process.
Most of human life extension has NOT been extending human life to live longer, but instead stopping people from dying young. That is, cave men could easily live to 90 years old, just like modern man, but most of them died before the age of 20. In civilized countries that are not at war, we generally do not die as children any more.
That said, I strongly suspect that a baby born 200 years from now will most likely have a life expectancy of over 120 years. But we are no where near that yet.
This, a large part of people living longer in the last 50-100 years has been the marked decline in infant and child mortality.
One of the reasons that huge families with 12 kids isn't a thing any more is that kids don't die nearly as often from easily preventable diseases. Although your friendly neighbourhood anti-vaxxer is trying as hard as possible to change that.
Plenty of people still die in their 50s and 60s, however the severe reduction in deaths under 12 really makes the average go up significant
Re:Dunning-Kruger effect live. (Score:5, Informative)
I'm skeptical of claims that we can meaningfully extend human lifespan. In order to do that, we'd have to stop the biological process of aging- not just fix problems aging causes piecemeal.
Increases in life expectancy to-date have mostly been from reduced infant mortality (fewer kids are malnourished, vaccines have stopped most childhood diseases, and the birthing process itself and neonatal is far less lethal due to surgical and other medical interventions). Besides that, it's (again) better nutrition/harsh living conditions, and medical interventions allowing a few people who would have died early from things like heart disease and cancer to live to the point aging gets them. But even with all that, most humans hit a wall sometime in their early 80s to early 90s where the body just stops working well. It's not one thing- it's everything. Muscles waste, the brain can no longer process information the same, the circulatory system doesn't work as well, the immune system stops working as well- everything breaks down. You won't fix it with a new heart or liver. The tiny minority to make it to extreme old age (100+) mostly appear to have a rare genetic predisposition to it, and even that one in a billion who makes it to 110 eventually succumbs to general frailty.
At best, we could use gene editing to give everyone the aging genes of those super centenarians who make it to 110+, but we don't have any great answers for how to stop the process beyond that. Of course, the world is full of scientific charlatans who sell the fountain of youth. It's probably a good way to get grant money.
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While we do not have the technology now, we do have good theories on how to do all of it, including the brain.
With effective cloning, we an replace the various systems piecemeal. The fact that it is everything is irrelevant, we can slowly over time, replace everything - even the brain. (Find a small section of the brain with excessive damage, destroy it granting a small amount of brain damage, insert new genetically identical but young brain cells in the whole - yes this is science fiction - now.)
Gene edi
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Simply replacing the parts that are broken doesn't fix a systemic problem. The body of a frail 100 year old person doesn't just have a weaker heart or weaker muscles. Literally every system in the body isn't working like it would in a younger person. Even the brain of a non-demented and sharp 70 year old doesn't have the same abilities as it did when the person was 25. Even people living to 100+ are still extremely diminished compared to how they were at 30 by their 70s.
The only animals that live substantia
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This is being solved as well. https://pme.uchicago.edu/news/... [uchicago.edu]
(I track this because i have an auto-immune disease with no cure)
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Neither Putin nor Xi are medial experts. They are uneducated fools discussing something they know very little about. They think they are knowledgeable but are not.
100% agree, but that's not what makes this exchange interesting.
They have a reputation for being technocrats. This shows that, at least in the medical domain, they're still just uneducated fools.
It's also telling that two old dictators are bonding over extending lifespans.
Re:Dunning-Kruger effect live. (Score:5, Informative)
do you actually believe this story is for real?
Yes. It's being reported by reputable news organizations, where "reputable" means they might selectively report and even distort, but don't just make stuff up.
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It's very simple. This news attributes controversial words to two major world leaders. If the news were the slightest bit questionable, their communication service would release a denial, as they very frequently do whenever some news get spoken they don't like. These letters do get quoted in Western news, but even if you assume the Western news wouldn't quote this one, this still would get published by the official news agencies. Somebody would point at it. You can start looking yourself https://english.new [english.news.cn]
Re:Dunning-Kruger effect live. (Score:5, Insightful)
And what about CCTV, the state TV of China, which broadcasted live the conversation, with immediate translation by the official interpret?
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Deep state mind control cointelpro adrenochrome
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Oh we're so sorry some of don't get every drop of information off fashy X posters and TikTok memes.
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Why wouldn't you? Idiots say idiotic things all the time.. The only journalist bias, is reporting on the idiotic things said by the idiots, but as long as they are in charge of large countries, that does seem relevant.
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I do, actually, on multiple grounds.
A. This is being reported by multiple news services. If it was just one talking about it without proof, then the others would have a golden opportunity to disprove it and show themselves as being better. They're not, which supports the idea that this is true.
B. BBC has shown itself over time to be reliable. Are they perfect? No. Do they have biases? Definitely. Does their writing have some degree of slant? Sure. Do they make up entire articles and news stories? No.
C. This
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People have been selling immortality to the ruling class since forever. It's harder to believe that a couple of guys who have been in a yes-man bubble for decades would believe anything else really.
As for looking bad? Uh xi, putin, and kim jong un are having tea while nuclear missiles are paraded through the fairgrounds in front of them. Anyone doing a smear piece practically have their work done for them.
I watched this parade by the way. Did you?
Bwahahaha (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Bwahahaha (Score:4, Interesting)
There's one organ I know of this has successfully been done with, and it's the bladder.
There's a world of difference between growing and implanting a balloon with two attachment points... and say, a pair of lungs. It likely will be possible one day, but not during either Putin or Xi's lifetimes. And if they believe that it will really be something they can personally rely on then the GP's point is extremely valid...
Personally from the clip it sort of sounded to me like Xi was just making small talk though and sounded kind of bored by it, Putin bought it up. For all we know Putin did this for some other domestic propaganda reason... but based on the logic he tried to present to justify Russia invading Ukraine, I also think he's maybe the kind of guy who would get sold something like this and fully buy into it when the technology never existed.
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Personally from the clip it sort of sounded to me like Xi was just making small talk though and sounded kind of bored by it, Putin bought it up. For all we know Putin did this for some other domestic propaganda reason
They are trying to show the world that they are healthy and not going away any time soon.
places where they can get them from prisoners and (Score:2)
places where they can get them from prisoners and the prisoners can be people who don't think the government way
It's not that I'm necessarily against immortality. (Score:3)
Immortality... (Score:4, Informative)
Human organs can be continuously transplanted. The longer you live, the younger you become, and (you can) even achieve immortality," the translator added.
Immortality through organ transplants? So that's why Trump was throwing a tantrum over not being invited. It must be seriously creepy and downright traumatic to be a translator for these people.
They keep forgetting that ... (Score:2)
... you can't get a brain transplant and alzheimer will always catch up to you.
Immortality is not what you think it is (Score:5, Interesting)
I have actually got some chronically immortal cells [wikipedia.org] in me.
I wouldn't be happier if Putin got some in his body too.
I hope it's just small talk (Score:2)
...rather than one of them had a medical issue.
If it was Putin and Trump... (Score:3)
Not talking about HUMAN immortality (Score:3)
Just their OWN.
People who want immortality (Score:2)
Such concern for human wellbeing (Score:3)
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Replace the head and the handle (Score:2)
Which part of Putin is the leader ?
If we replace all the parts is he still the leader, or can mutiple leaders be constructed from his discarded parts?
I can see this leading to a war between the Putins in various stages of decomposition.
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Good (Score:2)
Now can they please leave the tigers and pangolins alone?
Everyone starts sliding at 75-85 years old. (Score:2)
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Yes, and it's why you almost never see dictators continue past their early 80s. They may retain their title, but someone else has the power by then (for example MBS taking power from the king even while he retains the title). By their mid-80s, even very healthy people no longer have the physical and cognitive strength. Putin and Xi (both early 70s) have about 10 years left before they hit the wall. I'm sure they know it at some level, which is why they are whistling past the graveyard.
My grandfather (very m
Sounds about right (Score:2)
They're thinking too small (Score:2)
What the wealthy will end up doing is performing mind transplants into whole bodies to ensure they live forever.
That's the premise of "Freejack"
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0... [imdb.com]
Another use for Falun Gong prisoner's organs? (Score:3)
Freaky Commie! (Score:2)
If they get new ones, can I have the old ones? (Score:3)
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I think Xi probably will be seeking a penis transplant pretty soon.
Well, Putin might need one with all the trauma of fucking Ukraine.
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For all we know he's spending all his time masturbating to the females of Ukraine, because he fantasizes that he can just go into their country and rape them, whereby his Russian countrywomen might object regardless of what he looks like on a horse.
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Trump signs an executive order mandating new research into organ transplants and immortality.
He's already fired most of the researchers or canceled their funding.
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Citations please.
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Don't be distracted by one half of the raw numbers.
Find yourself the total dollar amount of cut NIH grants, and then find yourself the total number of grants NIH issues yearly.
Giving you the actual impact doesn't generate as many clicks. Is far better to give you large numbers without any context. And for you, it seems, it has worked.
Trump is a cocksucker, and has really fucked with some researches livelihoods (and the research they produce), but he hasn't impacted "academic res
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And to further mention the funding cuts were intimidation tactics because universities and schools do things orange jesus doesn't like. https://www.bbc.com/news/artic... [bbc.com]
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Dude is interrupting the flow of tiny amounts of money in the grand scheme of things. This doesn't mean they aren't large for those impacted. That's the point, I'd wager.
He's trying to use his power as the executive to hurt people. He hasn't effectively hurt "US Science Funding" or anything so grand.
Re:Trump wants to be immortal too, but ... (Score:4, Funny)
No, he has a different plan. Lately he's been announcing all the reasons he deserves to go to Heaven when he goes tits up. Should be jolly good laugh:
St. Peter: Who the Hell are you?
la Presidenta: But you know me, everyone does!!
St. Peter: I'm not everyone, who the Hell are you?
la Presdienta: la Presidenta.
St. Peter: Oh him, just a mo'.
St. Peter steps back from the podium to behind the Pearly Gates, pulls out iPhone.
Beelzebub: "Hell's Bells, you got me ringing Hell's Bells": Beelzebub here, what can I do you for, Pete.
St. Pete: Hey Beelz, how are they hanging?
Beelzebub: Like two Great Balls O Fire dancing the Jitterbug! Wanna see?
St. Pete: Maybe some other time. Say, we got la Presidenta up here. Remember our agreement!
Beelzebub: Errrrm.....ummmma, ummmma, ummmma, ..... actually no.
St. Pete: Stay on the line
St. Pete dials up the Big Guy:
Big Guy: "We had a ball on Jupiter and Mars": Yo!
St. Pete: Hey Einstein, Beelz says he does not recall our agreement re la Presidenta.
Big Guy: Oh yeah. I have the agreement right here.
Beelz: NO!! I'm not having him, you rooked me into signing that, telling me you'd send Billy Graham to Purgatory and then you sent him here.
Big Guy: Oh, I forgot about that. Oh well, listen, you have got to take him.
Beelz: Nope, not buying it. He'll destroy the atmosphere we are shooting for Down Here.
Big Guy: Hmmmm.....maybe we could send him to Texas?
Beelz: Nice try, Einstein, I'm IN Texas.
St. Peter: If I may make a suggestion, how about we just make him a free floating apparition just wafting about poor people on Earth?
Big Guy: Works for me. Beelz?
Beelz: Okay, but have him visit rich people and make him view all the wealth he'll never get his hands on.
St. Peter: Genius!! How come you didn't think of that, Einstein.
Big Guy: I haven't had my coffee yet.