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Science

Researchers Search For More Precise Ways To Measure Pain (msn.com) 37

Posted by msmash from the moving-forward dept.
Scientists are developing biomarkers to objectively measure pain, addressing a fundamental medical challenge that has contributed to the opioid crisis and led to consistent underestimation of pain in women and minorities.

Four research teams funded by the Department of Health and Human Services are developing technologies to quantify pain like other vital signs. Their approaches include a blood test for endometriosis pain, a device measuring nerve response through pupil dilation, microneedle patches sampling interstitial fluid, and a wearable sensor detecting pain markers in sweat.

"When patients are told that the pain is all in their head, the implication is that it's imagined, but the irony is that's sort of right," said Adam Kepecs, a neuroscience professor at Washington University. "The pain only exists in your brain. It's neural activity, which is why it's invisible and uniquely personal. But it's still real." These innovations could transform treatment for the nearly 25% of Americans suffering from chronic pain, while potentially saving billions in healthcare costs.

Researchers Search For More Precise Ways To Measure Pain More | Reply

Researchers Search For More Precise Ways To Measure Pain

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  • Neuroscientist: "The pain only exists in your brain. It's neural activity, which is why it's invisible and uniquely personal. But it's still real."

    Also neuroscientists: "that's not real, it's a hallucination"
    • Sounds like it's time for Being Hit On The Head Lessons [youtu.be]
    • Pain is inherently subjective, as well. I'm old, and have back and shoulder issues. They have not gotten any "better" over the last several years, but I have gotten much better at functioning with them. A level of pain that would have sent me to the doctor in my 20's, terrified I'd torn something ... is now a minor annoyance. I've also known people who deal with real Chronic pain to such a degree that they ignore significant injuries because they weren't exceptionally painful.

      I think it will be interest

      • I'm very interested in this. I described my arm pain recently as a 7-8 on the scale. Diagnosis, torn bicep. My knee pain last year, about a 7. Torn meniscus, the surgeon telling me it's such an old injury surgery is not an option. Shoulder pain after the arm pain, rose to a 9+. Diagnosis included every defect and condition other than outright fracture, most aggravation of 30-year problems. Note to self - do not attempt full scale landscaping work at age 70. Get some help.

        I tolerate pain too well. My wife at

    • A complex question of ontology and phenomenology.
  • Give us pot, opiods, narcotics, I personally would like some pot. Let us have some fun in our later years. What is there to lose? Yes, I agree younger people should not jump off of that bridge, should be alert and hard working, and drugs screws that up. I feel grateful that I am not in pain, and would use it recreational, however, for those that are in pain, what the heck?

    • They give you the good stuff in hospice care.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Coius ( 743781 )
        Not true. My grandmother was dying of lung cancer (my grandfather smoked, she didnd't) which they literally turned off the morphine in the last 10 days of her life claiming "Laws restrict what we can give so she doesn't get addicted to it".) So I call B.S. They don't give you the "good shit" in hospice because jacked up laws prevent how and what they can legally give people, even ones days away from dying, as it treats them as potential "Addicts to be" and end up letting them writhe in agony from pain unti

        • Re: Not true (Score:1)

          by Anonymous Coward

          I think you are correct, but it also depends on what state you reside in.
          The FDA/DEA come down hard on certain legal prescription medications in certain areas, not all areas, and people loose their licenses to prescribe.
          The FDA/DEA doesn't seem to care at all that many of those prescription medications are needed more in areas where the population is older and/or there are much higher rates of cancer.
          In the meantime your local government leaches claim they are protecting you from over prescribing fiends as

        • On another site, I can post emoticons, so pretend that this is it: :hugs:.

  • "consistent underestimation of pain in women and minorities" - this statement makes absolutely no sense to me.

    • I have heard many podcasts about that. It seems that most Doctors are white men, and are skeptical about women and minorities having any pain at all.

      • "most Doctors are white men" - Maybe back in the 1950's. Have you been to see a the doctor in the last 30+ years. Most of the doctors I've run across have the same first and last name. It's freaky.

      • Not buying it, but I would be happy to learn something new if evidence were presented.

      • I have heard many podcasts about that. It seems that most Doctors are white men, and are skeptical about women and minorities having any pain at all.

        That sounds utterly ludicrous.

        It also sounds like something that someone would say when they hear things that they don't want to hear.

        "I'm not finding any good reason to prescribe narcotics for you."

        "You must be racist!"

    • "consistent underestimation of pain in women and minorities" - this statement makes absolutely no sense to me.

      Hard to believe there could be differences among humans, isn't it? Everyone has to be exactly the same, right?

      Read about the differences between blacks and whites when it comes to medications.
      • It does make sense to me, I have listened to many testimonials and podcasts. I am a white man, and I don't feel any pain, however, I have listened to testimonials from minorities who felt pain and got denied basic health care.

  • Pain Control.

    In every other field, the advancement is obvious, and great.

    For pain, it's still opium and it's derivatives.

    Pitiful.

    • Not quite. Opiates are, as you wrote, opium and its derivatives. Opioids, which is the preferred term today, include synthetics.
  • Im sorry, but this has already been done. My dad invented accendowave which measured your brain waves to determine how much pain you are in. This was actually deployed to multiple hospitals but due to the pandemic, they stoped using it because of sanitary reasons. it also had a tablet that based on your brain waves would show you content to try to distract you from your pain. In other words an opioid alternative. It worked great, but the hospitals never adapted it. https://www.accendowave.com/ [accendowave.com]

  • "Beautiful isn't it? It took me half a lifetime to invent it. I'm sure you've discovered my deep and abiding interest in pain. Presently I'm writing the definitive work on the subject, so I want you to be totally honest with me on how the machine makes you feel. This being our first try, I'll use the lowest setting."

    "As you know, the concept of the suction pump is centuries old. Really that's all this is except that instead of sucking water, I'm sucking life. I've just sucked one year of your life away. I m

  • Here is a link to Allie Brosh's Pain chart. It is far superior to anything done by a neural scientist.

    https://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/02/boyfriend-doesnt-have-ebola-probably.html [blogspot.com]

    To misquote 'This is Spinal Tap', Not only does it go to 11, it goes all the way to TWELVE.

    The pictures are a far better representation of what it actually feels.

    And finally, Ms. Allie Brosh knows what she is talking about, she has real experience and the mind to make something of it.

  • It's fascinating that it is so difficult to measure pain.
    We hold a default belief that if two people have the same affliction, their level of pain should be the same. I think we understand that this is not true in practice, but we somehow believe is *should* be true.
    Pain is an entirely internal reaction. So it is not like measuring "dirtiness", but more like measuring "disgust" at dirtiness. The individual's level of disgust depends on the individual's sensitivity and other subjective attributes.
    This hints

  • I'm from Ontario, Canada.

    I have chronic pain, it feels like someone is kicking me in the nuts, while a hammer is being thrown into my spine. That's a gross oversimplification, but it will do.

    It started ~5 years ago, with a nut infection, that was difficult to treat, and stuck around for ~6 months. It went away, and my doctors shrugged it off, it can happen to men. ~3 years ago, the feeling of a nut infection returned, without the swelling and visible markers. Since then, I've seen ~14 doctors, been
    • This research looks like another way to further restrict pain meds, because their chart now says you're "objectively" lying if you don't meet their no doubt highly skewed model. Like that bullshit research "proving" opioids weren't needed by comparing a near-placebo opioid dose to a liver busting NSAID dose for well each *slightly reduced* pain (major relief no longer being a clinical goal).
      That line about being shocked you were awake was bullshit too. They weren't shocked, they were conveying they weren't
      • It's already happening, where the subjective reference is taken as the gold standard, but it seems to be based on nothing. When I say nothing, my pain specialists don't understand how the reference is set, they can't dose me based on the reference, and not just me, any of their patients.

        I've been to the pharmacy several times, where I've been told (paraphrased): “No, you are drug seeking, we can't give you the medication.” It's taken one of my pain doctors calling in and demanding the medicat

  • Researchers: Pain is inherently subjective and personal.
    Same Researchers: Lets objectively measure pain!

    Sounds:
    A) Retarded.
    B) Like a good way to make medical pain management even less useful.
    C) Like a good way to burn through grant dollars while producing nothing useful for humanity at all.

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