Please create an account to participate in the Slashdot moderation system

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Science

Mice With Two Dads Have Been Created Using CRISPR (technologyreview.com) 83

Chinese scientists have created mice with genetic material from two males that survived to adulthood, marking a potential breakthrough in reproductive biology, according to research published in Cell Stem Cell. Researchers at the Chinese Academy of Sciences used CRISPR gene editing to target 20 genes involved in embryonic development, producing seven live pups from 164 embryos. The surviving mice grew larger than normal, had enlarged organs, were infertile and had shorter lifespans.

Mice With Two Dads Have Been Created Using CRISPR

Comments Filter:
  • I prefer mice with 2 heads, more brain.

  • Yea! (Score:4, Funny)

    by mustafap ( 452510 ) on Wednesday January 29, 2025 @03:17PM (#65128847) Homepage

    We don't need women any more. Life will be so much simpler!

    • ok just read the second sentence. They are infertile. I retract my statement, and will return to cleaning the dishes.

      • ,,, with shorter lifespans and larger internal organs. Such a bargain.
        • ,,, with shorter lifespans and larger internal organs. Such a bargain.

          But they are male mice, so no one cares.

      • by suutar ( 1860506 )

        but if we don't need women, what does fertility matter? Just clone 'em!

      • But without women anymore, and artificial means of reproduction, infertitility isn't an issue anymore. Except to fragile male egos. And fixing those egos will be the next major science breakthrough.

        • by Tyr07 ( 8900565 )

          Everyone's got an issue with other peoples egos until they're the ones who have to unload the cement truck or work in freezing conditions out on an oil rig.

          • Everyone's got an issue with other peoples egos until they're the ones who have to unload the cement truck or work in freezing conditions out on an oil rig.

            As Camille Paglia, an American academic, social critic and feminist notes:

            "Men have sacrificed and crippled themselves physically and emotionally to feed, house, and protect women and children. None of their pain or achievement is registered in feminist rhetoric, which portrays men as oppressive and callous exploiters. If civilization had been left in female hands we would still be living in grass huts."

            If this triggers the boys on Slashdot, remember, you are arguing with a woman, who is a feminist. So

      • ok just read the second sentence. They are infertile. I retract my statement, and will return to cleaning the dishes.

        Who cares if they're infertile. Just Clone some more!

    • Ethan of Athos by Louis McMaster Bujold https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik... [wikipedia.org]

    • According to the article, a female with a uterus was still required to bring them into this world.

      The breakthrough was more about handling the gene imprinting which was an impediment to this as it requires male and female DNA. They still aren't entirely sure how this functions. The work around involved identifying and turning off those specific genes. Something they indicate to be much more difficult with humans.
  • The article does not say. Are the resulting mice male, female, some of each, or odd things like YY?

    • Re: Male or female (Score:5, Interesting)

      by ArmoredDragon ( 3450605 ) on Wednesday January 29, 2025 @03:51PM (#65128967)

      I'd place a very strong wager on it being xy. We've actually seen this occur naturally in humans from an xy female who had non-functional TDF receptors. And her offspring can only be xy genotype with female phenotype.

      The part most laypeople get confused over is the definition of male and female, thinking it's all about chromosomes, but as a universal rule, sex is defined purely in terms of gametes. This includes some male fish that give birth -- basically the male has the analogue to a uterus, the female passes him the egg, which he then fertilizes and carries.

      • I just thought I'd give the following link as a reply to the parent post.
        https://www.whitehouse.gov/pre... [whitehouse.gov]

        Do I need to provide more commentary?

        • Since we've all be labeled as females now by the White House, which is never wrong, I think it's time all of us on Slashdot went out for brunch together.

      • While mice to have an X/Y chromosome style for sex determination, not all mammals have X/Y! Even then, X/Y are not directly the deciding factor of sex, but the timing of the release of hormones for sexual development in the embryo. At conception, we're all essentially female. Lemmings for example have a larger population of XY females than many other mammals. And when you look outside of mammals, things just get a lot weirder. Probably highly upsetting to the White House.

        • Those mammals are non-placental, aka monotremes. Extremely early divergence, carry traits more commonly found in reptiles and birds. That's why the platypus seems so odd.

        • Saying human beings are all female at conception is kind of a strange statement though. There are basically at a point of embryonic development undifferentiated gonads that can become either, but it's not that males ever develop from first having functional female gonads, who then become functional male ones.

          That having been said, it is true that a human being develops into something far closer to a female in the case just not being exposed to sex hormones at all during developments, but this won't produce

          • The embryo at once cell, or 8 cells, are functionally identical. There are no gonads here, I'm not saying that there's a male gonad that later changes. But the presence of the Y chromosome makes it highly likely that the right hormones are active at the right time to encourage development along male pathways.

            With XY, you can have functional female gonads. I'm not saying it's common, but there's firm religious belief out there that this is impossible. There are multiple genes for just about everything, it's

      • Sex in biology, like everything else, is kind of wet fingerwork and convention.

        Like, the big issue for instance is that biologists tend to classify worker bees as “female” despite having only vestigial gonads and not producing gametes at all. The argument is that worker bees are genetically indistinct from queen bees, who are true females, and thus they should also be called female. Okay, but so many species do not have a gene-based sex determination system but an environmental one, either in a

        • They're female, they just never reach sexual maturity. In the absence of the right signaling, humans are the same way. For bees, that comes in the form of royal jelly. For humans, that's the pituitary gland. Beehives are practically organisms unto themselves, arguably even more so than a virus. Have a look at how they maintain homeostasis for example.

    • The article does not say. Are the resulting mice male, female, some of each, or odd things like YY?

      In China or the U.S.? Because as of Jan 20, 2025 the U.S. only recognized two sexes: male and female. From the (lengthy) Trump Executive Order Defending Women from Gender Ideology Extremism and Restoring Biological Truth to the Federal Government [whitehouse.gov]

      Sec. 2. Policy and Definitions. It is the policy of the United States to recognize two sexes, male and female.

      • The chromosome shape doesn't determine sex, gamete production does.

        • The chromosome shape doesn't determine sex, gamete production does.

          So you agree with the executive order?

          • To be honest, I don't care to deal in gender crap. I don't see what the point of pointing out "gender roles" is to begin with. I don't think that amimoji enjoying getting pegged makes him any less of a man. There's plenty of other stuff he does that are evidence of that, like the fact that he needs to create disinformation to make himself feel comfortable. But that doesn't make him more of a woman either, just less of a man. I'm a little bothered by the idea that we have a whole higher ed curriculum dedicat

        • Hence if one stops producing gametes, it moves to the no sex group?
      • The article does not say. Are the resulting mice male, female, some of each, or odd things like YY?

        In China or the U.S.? Because as of Jan 20, 2025 the U.S. only recognized two sexes: male and female. From the (lengthy) Trump Executive Order Defending Women from Gender Ideology Extremism and Restoring Biological Truth to the Federal Government [whitehouse.gov]

        Sec. 2. Policy and Definitions. It is the policy of the United States to recognize two sexes, male and female.

        Science doesn't generally end up beholden to politics outside of completely fascist and authoritarian reg... oh, never mind.

        • Sec. 2. Policy and Definitions. It is the policy of the United States to recognize two sexes, male and female.

          To be certain, it is more or less three sexes. Male, female, and intersex.

          It is not because a person wants to wear dresses, take female hormones and maybe puberty blockers, and amputate their genitals.

          That's just an extreme version of the childhood game of dress-up.

          I always wondered about that - if men are the horrid women supressing monsters we are told we are, pure distilled evil, why does any man want to transition to the oppressed and downtrodden sex?

          • Sec. 2. Policy and Definitions. It is the policy of the United States to recognize two sexes, male and female.

            To be certain, it is more or less three sexes. Male, female, and intersex.

            It is not because a person wants to wear dresses, take female hormones and maybe puberty blockers, and amputate their genitals.

            That's just an extreme version of the childhood game of dress-up.

            I always wondered about that - if men are the horrid women supressing monsters we are told we are, pure distilled evil, why does any man want to transition to the oppressed and downtrodden sex?

            From a certain perspective, if you buy into the narrative, it's the only way to cease being evil.

            • Sec. 2. Policy and Definitions. It is the policy of the United States to recognize two sexes, male and female.

              To be certain, it is more or less three sexes. Male, female, and intersex.

              It is not because a person wants to wear dresses, take female hormones and maybe puberty blockers, and amputate their genitals.

              That's just an extreme version of the childhood game of dress-up.

              I always wondered about that - if men are the horrid women supressing monsters we are told we are, pure distilled evil, why does any man want to transition to the oppressed and downtrodden sex?

              From a certain perspective, if you buy into the narrative, it's the only way to cease being evil.

              And a strange perspective that is. Then again, misandry is an unofficial part of the Democrat party today. Or at least they prostrate themselves being terrified of the reeee.

      • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

        You forgot the good part:

        (d) “Female” means a person belonging, at conception, to the sex that produces the large reproductive cell.

        (e) “Male” means a person belonging, at conception, to the sex that produces the small reproductive cell.

        [nih.gov]

        Sex differentiation involves a series of events whereby the sexually indifferent gonads and genitalia progressively acquire male or female characteristics.

        So at conception we are neither female nor male but "indifferent." Resist this woke American

        • And nobody is as indifferent to sex as those on slashdot!

        • That seems like a gross mischaracterization. First, just because something is undifferentiated at some point in development does not mean that it won't eventually head down some particular path barring some complications causing developmental problems. Were this not the case should expect that XY chromosomes (or more specifically the SRY gene) to result in the development of ovaries which produce the large reproductive cell (egg). Instead these sorts of conditions are extremely rare.

          The declaration as wr
          • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

            Ah yes! The executive order could have used genetic determination instead. If you've got a y you're a man, if you don't you're a woman. I wonder why they didn't do that? After all, it should be a simple matter for every American to just give the government a little bit of DNA for their mandatory sexing, right?

            As a side benefit, this would have the very interesting effect of ~9 million mostly unsuspecting American "men" being informed by their government that they are actually women! And ~11 million American

        • by spitzak ( 4019 )

          They obviously mangled the wording due to pressure from anti abortionists.

          It would make a lot more sense to say "at birth" or "at puberty" or something, so that at least some of the "reproductive cells" are being produced.

          Personally they should have just gone with the old definition: the sex is whatever is chosen based on appearance when they are born. This is correct something like 95% of the time and thus no worse than almost all other attempts to define this.

          • Personally they should have just gone with the old definition: the sex is whatever is chosen based on appearance when they are born. This is correct something like 95% of the time and thus no worse than almost all other attempts to define this.

            What I have found so very odd is the womanist extreme far left chose that hill to die on.

            There is nothing wrong with an adult deciding to go transgender. But they are what they are genetically, and trying to undefine Male and Female, woman and man, and replace it with ridiculous and insulting terms like "Birthing person", and "Lactating person" is just the standard renaming gobbldygook, designed to confuse more than anything else. It places those who believe it firmly in the ground of Flat Earthers, 9-1

  • Note that the article does barely mention that a female was required at the end:

    > The resulting embryos were transferred to the uteruses of female mice.

    that the headline and summary neglect. So no male birthing yet, apparently.

    • did you really want fetuses jetting out your butt? I for one, do not want that!
    • The article also states, "their approach is the second way scientists have found to create mice using DNA from two males." Which certainly raises the question of what is the story with females. Having gestation already in place they'd all set. But then again a female could also just give birth to her own clone and not need a partner of any kind at all.

      Not that it'll be done on humans in my lifetime. I hope.

      • The article also states, "their approach is the second way scientists have found to create mice using DNA from two males." Which certainly raises the question of what is the story with females. Having gestation already in place they'd all set. But then again a female could also just give birth to her own clone and not need a partner of any kind at all.

        Not that it'll be done on humans in my lifetime. I hope.

        Parthogenesis exists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] A little sketchy that human females can do it.

    • Note that the article does barely mention that a female was required at the end:

      So, we come up with the Axlotl Tanks like in Dune....

  • And they wonder why genetic diversity [slashdot.org] has declined.

    Yeah, total mystery there!

  • We're still about a decade of sustained effort from being able to do this in humans. It's now mostly illegal to do any experiments involved human embryos -- even things that might be legal would get avoided. No scientist wants to risk going to jail. The other reason we can't do it in humans is because mice embryonic development is much better understood and researched than primate (human, ape, monkey etc.) embryonic development. There are enough differences (mostly in epigenetic reprogramming and chromatin

    • by Dusanyu ( 675778 )
      "The surviving mice grew larger than normal, had enlarged organs, were infertile and had shorter lifespans." Sounds like they are a far way off from doing this properly in mice as well
  • ...squeak louder than mice over this: "They're doing woke trans gain-of-function in US labs using illegal visa nerds!...and they're eating the mice!"

  • We might finally see some effort to protect America's tattered social safety net as, for the first time ever, lawmakers like Lindsey Graham may have to face the consequences of becoming unwed mothers.

  • I'm reminded of "All you Zombies [imdb.com]", a Robert A. Heinlein,1958, story (also, a The Hooters, 1985, song) where a sex-change operation includes the ability to produce sperm. Add time-travel so the male goes back and has sex with her/him self. Then, add a second time-travel so the baby girl is taken back and grows into this she/he person. The result is a person that exists only in the future, not the past: A loop of time that lacks a beginning. That's a boot-strap paradox for time.
    • I still thought it was good film even though I knew the story it was based on and the "twist" in the plot so I'd recommend checking it out. There's enough other aspects to it to make it interesting and they're aware that people might be familiar with the story so added a few other things to make it satisfying for that part of the audience.

      Heinlein also wrote By His Boostraps, which also has some similar themes of time travel and a bootstrap paradox that he wrote prior to All You Zombies. I think All You
  • I don't know how sex-chromosomes work in mice, (birds are REALLY weird that way) but if they're about the same as people with an X/Y layout, it would seem to be theoretically very doable. But of course the offspring would have to be male.

  • This is one step closer to creating a way to grow consumers in a lab, and then its off to mass production. Just imagine the possibilities! You could create any demographic you want; any gender, any race, any size! Just make sure they're not too bright and have no curiosity.

    They could replace the agriculture workers, live stacked like pancakes in giant warehouses (that they pay rent to the corporation for, obviously), sustain themselves on a single cell protein combined with synthetic aminos vitamins and

Overload -- core meltdown sequence initiated.

Working...