Mice With Two Dads Have Been Created Using CRISPR (technologyreview.com) 105
Chinese scientists have created mice with genetic material from two males that survived to adulthood, marking a potential breakthrough in reproductive biology, according to research published in Cell Stem Cell. Researchers at the Chinese Academy of Sciences used CRISPR gene editing to target 20 genes involved in embryonic development, producing seven live pups from 164 embryos. The surviving mice grew larger than normal, had enlarged organs, were infertile and had shorter lifespans.
Mice With Two Dads (Score:2)
I prefer mice with 2 heads, more brain.
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The same thing we do every night pinky...
South Park reference (Re:Mice With Two Dads ) (Score:1)
How do you feel about mice with four asses?
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No, the Kardashians are rats.
Yea! (Score:5, Funny)
We don't need women any more. Life will be so much simpler!
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ok just read the second sentence. They are infertile. I retract my statement, and will return to cleaning the dishes.
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,,, with shorter lifespans and larger internal organs. Such a bargain.
But they are male mice, so no one cares.
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but if we don't need women, what does fertility matter? Just clone 'em!
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Everyone's got an issue with other peoples egos until they're the ones who have to unload the cement truck or work in freezing conditions out on an oil rig.
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Everyone's got an issue with other peoples egos until they're the ones who have to unload the cement truck or work in freezing conditions out on an oil rig.
As Camille Paglia, an American academic, social critic and feminist notes:
"Men have sacrificed and crippled themselves physically and emotionally to feed, house, and protect women and children. None of their pain or achievement is registered in feminist rhetoric, which portrays men as oppressive and callous exploiters. If civilization had been left in female hands we would still be living in grass huts."
If this triggers the boys on Slashdot, remember, you are arguing with a woman, who is a feminist. So
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It's ok to argue with her about the patriarchy- she doesn't believe it exists, it's just the natural order of things.
And to top it off, the woman loudly proclaims her belief in astrology, and disavows most modern science. Quite the darling you've selected
You really are such a vile fucking human.
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ok just read the second sentence. They are infertile. I retract my statement, and will return to cleaning the dishes.
Who cares if they're infertile. Just Clone some more!
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Who cares if they're infertile. Just Clone some more!
That didn't end well for the Asgard. [fandom.com]
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Who cares if they're infertile. Just Clone some more!
That didn't end well for the Asgard. [fandom.com]
Yeah, but we're smarter...
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then they'd have nobody to rape and beat, like the Old Testament wanted it.
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Isn't the stereotype that homosexuals get along fantastic with women?
Re: Yea! (Score:1)
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Isn't the stereotype that homosexuals get along fantastic with women?
All but a coupe of the homosexuals I know get along great with everyone.
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Isn't the stereotype that homosexuals get along fantastic with women?
Yeah, I wondered about that for a while too. I came to the conclusion that the reason why male homosexuals get on with beautiful women is honest feedback, because beautiful often get humiliated by women who see them as a threat. Females are just human beings and they need friends just like the rest of us do. For the women I've dated I've seen that predicament play out and seen how subtly mean women can be to each other and it made sense why they were friends with homosexual men.
Re: Yea! (Score:2)
Ethan of Athos by Louis McMaster Bujold https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik... [wikipedia.org]
Re: Yea!, RTFA much? (Score:1)
The breakthrough was more about handling the gene imprinting which was an impediment to this as it requires male and female DNA. They still aren't entirely sure how this functions. The work around involved identifying and turning off those specific genes. Something they indicate to be much more difficult with humans.
Male or female (Score:2)
The article does not say. Are the resulting mice male, female, some of each, or odd things like YY?
Re: Male or female (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd place a very strong wager on it being xy. We've actually seen this occur naturally in humans from an xy female who had non-functional TDF receptors. And her offspring can only be xy genotype with female phenotype.
The part most laypeople get confused over is the definition of male and female, thinking it's all about chromosomes, but as a universal rule, sex is defined purely in terms of gametes. This includes some male fish that give birth -- basically the male has the analogue to a uterus, the female passes him the egg, which he then fertilizes and carries.
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I just thought I'd give the following link as a reply to the parent post.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/pre... [whitehouse.gov]
Do I need to provide more commentary?
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Re: Male or female (Score:2)
Those mammals are non-placental, aka monotremes. Extremely early divergence, carry traits more commonly found in reptiles and birds. That's why the platypus seems so odd.
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Saying human beings are all female at conception is kind of a strange statement though. There are basically at a point of embryonic development undifferentiated gonads that can become either, but it's not that males ever develop from first having functional female gonads, who then become functional male ones.
That having been said, it is true that a human being develops into something far closer to a female in the case just not being exposed to sex hormones at all during developments, but this won't produce
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Saying human beings are all female at conception is kind of a strange statement though.
It's not that strange.
The reason is simple- it requires intervention to prevent them from becoming female gonads.
Deny that intervention, naturally, or otherwise, and that zygote will continue on to be a female.
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Sex in biology, like everything else, is kind of wet fingerwork and convention.
Like, the big issue for instance is that biologists tend to classify worker bees as “female” despite having only vestigial gonads and not producing gametes at all. The argument is that worker bees are genetically indistinct from queen bees, who are true females, and thus they should also be called female. Okay, but so many species do not have a gene-based sex determination system but an environmental one, either in a
Re: Male or female (Score:2)
They're female, they just never reach sexual maturity. In the absence of the right signaling, humans are the same way. For bees, that comes in the form of royal jelly. For humans, that's the pituitary gland. Beehives are practically organisms unto themselves, arguably even more so than a virus. Have a look at how they maintain homeostasis for example.
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Do the spotted hyena next!
Or the clown fish!
Maybe the bearded dragon?
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They never even fully form- normally.
Of course, like most biological systems, there are exceptions, and sometimes drones do in fact, form functioning gonads, and even lay eggs- which are promptly destroyed by other workers.
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The article does not say. Are the resulting mice male, female, some of each, or odd things like YY?
In China or the U.S.? Because as of Jan 20, 2025 the U.S. only recognized two sexes: male and female. From the (lengthy) Trump Executive Order Defending Women from Gender Ideology Extremism and Restoring Biological Truth to the Federal Government [whitehouse.gov]
Sec. 2. Policy and Definitions. It is the policy of the United States to recognize two sexes, male and female.
Re: Male or female (Score:3)
The chromosome shape doesn't determine sex, gamete production does.
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The chromosome shape doesn't determine sex, gamete production does.
So you agree with the executive order?
Re: Male or female (Score:1)
To be honest, I don't care to deal in gender crap. I don't see what the point of pointing out "gender roles" is to begin with. I don't think that amimoji enjoying getting pegged makes him any less of a man. There's plenty of other stuff he does that are evidence of that, like the fact that he needs to create disinformation to make himself feel comfortable. But that doesn't make him more of a woman either, just less of a man. I'm a little bothered by the idea that we have a whole higher ed curriculum dedicat
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While it's rare for intersex conditions to produce gametes- it does happen, and this entirely ignores trying to classify those who will never form gametes. Are they just sex-less?
All attempts at trying to rigidly define sex will fail. You have to accept this, eventually.
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The article does not say. Are the resulting mice male, female, some of each, or odd things like YY?
In China or the U.S.? Because as of Jan 20, 2025 the U.S. only recognized two sexes: male and female. From the (lengthy) Trump Executive Order Defending Women from Gender Ideology Extremism and Restoring Biological Truth to the Federal Government [whitehouse.gov]
Sec. 2. Policy and Definitions. It is the policy of the United States to recognize two sexes, male and female.
Science doesn't generally end up beholden to politics outside of completely fascist and authoritarian reg... oh, never mind.
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Sec. 2. Policy and Definitions. It is the policy of the United States to recognize two sexes, male and female.
To be certain, it is more or less three sexes. Male, female, and intersex.
It is not because a person wants to wear dresses, take female hormones and maybe puberty blockers, and amputate their genitals.
That's just an extreme version of the childhood game of dress-up.
I always wondered about that - if men are the horrid women supressing monsters we are told we are, pure distilled evil, why does any man want to transition to the oppressed and downtrodden sex?
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Sec. 2. Policy and Definitions. It is the policy of the United States to recognize two sexes, male and female.
To be certain, it is more or less three sexes. Male, female, and intersex.
It is not because a person wants to wear dresses, take female hormones and maybe puberty blockers, and amputate their genitals.
That's just an extreme version of the childhood game of dress-up.
I always wondered about that - if men are the horrid women supressing monsters we are told we are, pure distilled evil, why does any man want to transition to the oppressed and downtrodden sex?
From a certain perspective, if you buy into the narrative, it's the only way to cease being evil.
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Sec. 2. Policy and Definitions. It is the policy of the United States to recognize two sexes, male and female.
To be certain, it is more or less three sexes. Male, female, and intersex.
It is not because a person wants to wear dresses, take female hormones and maybe puberty blockers, and amputate their genitals.
That's just an extreme version of the childhood game of dress-up.
I always wondered about that - if men are the horrid women supressing monsters we are told we are, pure distilled evil, why does any man want to transition to the oppressed and downtrodden sex?
From a certain perspective, if you buy into the narrative, it's the only way to cease being evil.
And a strange perspective that is. Then again, misandry is an unofficial part of the Democrat party today. Or at least they prostrate themselves being terrified of the reeee.
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And a strange perspective that is. Then again, misandry is an unofficial part of the Democrat party today. Or at least they prostrate themselves being terrified of the reeee.
I think republicans are complacent when it come to championing men's rights which was their platform for a long time. Also I remember when feminists invaded the left which used to be quite masculine. It seems that the polarization in gender reflects the polarization in politics illustrating why the Westminster systems was designed for independence rather that polarization. I can't imagine the American Collegial system being different in that regard.
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And a strange perspective that is. Then again, misandry is an unofficial part of the Democrat party today. Or at least they prostrate themselves being terrified of the reeee.
I think republicans are complacent when it come to championing men's rights which was their platform for a long time. Also I remember when feminists invaded the left which used to be quite masculine. It seems that the polarization in gender reflects the polarization in politics illustrating why the Westminster systems was designed for independence rather that polarization. I can't imagine the American Collegial system being different in that regard.
Our colleges have a problem here.
Having been employed in the US academic system since the mid-late '70's, I've observed an accelerating misandry. Indeed, in the the mid 80's it started out innocently enough, with some sexual harassment courses that were needed, if applied only to men.
While I won't claim the classes to be universal, ours were unnecessarily heavy handed. Taught by the gender studies department (called women's studies at the time), we were taught that anything at all that a woman called sex
Re:Male or female (Score:5, Funny)
You forgot the good part:
(d) “Female” means a person belonging, at conception, to the sex that produces the large reproductive cell.
(e) “Male” means a person belonging, at conception, to the sex that produces the small reproductive cell.
[nih.gov]
So at conception we are neither female nor male but "indifferent." Resist this woke American ideology decreeing that there are two genders instead of only the one true gender, indifferent!
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The declaration as wr
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Ah yes! The executive order could have used genetic determination instead. If you've got a y you're a man, if you don't you're a woman. I wonder why they didn't do that? After all, it should be a simple matter for every American to just give the government a little bit of DNA for their mandatory sexing, right?
As a side benefit, this would have the very interesting effect of ~9 million mostly unsuspecting American "men" being informed by their government that they are actually women! And ~11 million American
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First, just because something is undifferentiated at some point in development does not mean that it won't eventually head down some particular path barring some complications causing developmental problems.
It is impossible, with current technology, to say with certainty what a zygote will become.
Sure, you can play the odds, but that's not how rules like this can work.
Instead these sorts of conditions are extremely rare.
Let's define extremely rare. About 1.7% of the population has a chromosomal condition that will prevent them from forming gametes that match their sex-chromosomes, or simply have binary-sex-phenotype-unmatchable sex chromosomes.
That's about 6 million fucking people.
Since it's now the position of the US Government that these are not people, do
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They obviously mangled the wording due to pressure from anti abortionists.
It would make a lot more sense to say "at birth" or "at puberty" or something, so that at least some of the "reproductive cells" are being produced.
Personally they should have just gone with the old definition: the sex is whatever is chosen based on appearance when they are born. This is correct something like 95% of the time and thus no worse than almost all other attempts to define this.
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Personally they should have just gone with the old definition: the sex is whatever is chosen based on appearance when they are born. This is correct something like 95% of the time and thus no worse than almost all other attempts to define this.
What I have found so very odd is the womanist extreme far left chose that hill to die on.
There is nothing wrong with an adult deciding to go transgender. But they are what they are genetically, and trying to undefine Male and Female, woman and man, and replace it with ridiculous and insulting terms like "Birthing person", and "Lactating person" is just the standard renaming gobbldygook, designed to confuse more than anything else. It places those who believe it firmly in the ground of Flat Earthers, 9-1
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I think you are mistaking satire from conservatives for actual "far left" statements.
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I think you are mistaking satire from conservatives for actual "far left" statements.
Yeah, I get it. The gender thing.
And while once Gender and sex were basically the same thing, we now must differentiate the two concepts.
I generally speak of sex, and at least from the Northwester Medicine Institute, they say:
"Sex: A person's biological and anatomical status assigned at birth. Sex is based on a person's anatomy. It can be male, female or intersex. Intersex is a term used to describe people who have reproductive anatomy, chromosomes or hormones that do not fit into the categories of
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One doesn't have to be fully indoctrinated in the "I identify as a meat popsicle" thing to point out, quite scientifically, that the EO is fucking absurd.
I, like you claim, don't really give a shit about gender identity. Want me to call you a horse? No fucking problem.
As for biological males competing with biological females- who gives a shit? All that should matter is whether or not the person has a performance advantage because of it. If they do- no, you can't compete. If you
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This whole think is caused by incels who are scared to death they will be fooled by a cute girl who turns out to be a man, and want to make sure that is impossible.
Primarily by making it illegal to lie about your sex plus making as many ways as possible for your actual sex to be determined so they can be properly beat up in the boys room. They are producing all these straw-man arguments involving individuals who nobody would ever identify as female in order to fight for this, and making up ridiculous PC-sty
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This whole think is caused by incels who are scared to death they will be fooled by a cute girl who turns out to be a man, and want to make sure that is impossible.
Your jumping to the overused shaming calling men incels, automatically shows me much about you.
You might think you know all about me, but that my friend, is a communication and argument that shows your bigotry.
To be certain, I have no issues regarding "Chicks mit dicks" You might possibly be thinking about sex with one a whole lot more than I am.
They are just people.
Primarily by making it illegal to lie about your sex plus making as many ways as possible for your actual sex to be determined so they can be properly beat up in the boys room.
Before we go too far along here, are you transgendered? If so, I accept you as you are.
But here is a problem. You make it pretty c
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Holy crap you are really triggered. What a rant. Proof pretty positive that the whole source of this is men scared that they will be fooled by the sex of somebody. Maybe women too.
I am not trans. "Straight CIS male" to use incel terms. I tend to use the biological sex (when it is obvious) to decide what pronouns and terms to use for people.As I have never encountered the fantasy creature that you guys dream up where they demand a pronoun that is different from their obvious appearance I don't know what I wo
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Holy crap you are really triggered. What a rant.
Perhaps's you want a short reply. I am being polite, and I touch type, at the speed of thought. If that is a problem for you, do not reply.
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It is provably Male, female, and a quite a fucking lot of intersex people
FTFY.
Every day you see 100 people with your eyes, you see intersex people.
They're a small part of the population, but if you were to round them all up across the country, they'd be more than the population of the major metropolitan area I live in.
You can't alter reality to fit a social agenda.
You're just as guilty as the people you're railing against.
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It is provably Male, female, and a quite a fucking lot of intersex people
FTFY. Every day you see 100 people with your eyes, you see intersex people. They're a small part of the population, but if you were to round them all up across the country, they'd be more than the population of the major metropolitan area I live in. You can't alter reality to fit a social agenda. You're just as guilty as the people you're railing against.
You are going to need to prove your assertions.
I eagerly away the number of intersex people. And that isn't someone who is playing dress up. It is people who have physical characteristics of mal and female, or none at all. Eargerly awaiting your citations.
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Intersex conditions vary based upon definition of the condition.
If you're political invested in pretending like it's a small part of the population, then it's ~0.18%. You get this by precluding the vast majority of conditions that are, in fact, considered intersex.
If you're trying to include everyone that would be excluded by the sex defining EO, then you're looking at ~1.7% (everyone who, due to genetic weirdities, will have sexual ambiguities and not produce gametes
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I dunno. "The United States of America, Greatest Country to have Ever Existed, hereby Recognizes Two, and Only Two Sexes, determined by Whatever It Looks Like Most at birth or Shortly Thereafter" has kind of weird vibes to it. Might invite some criticism. Small and large reproductive cells sounds more sciency.
Oh, BTW, nobody tell Trump about Nemo.
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Am I the only one who read this and thought that? I actually giggled. To be clear I'm not trying to offend anyone and I'm not saying men are superior, nothing of that kind, just read two males = bigger mice.
My first thought was watching re-runs of "My Two Dads" will never be the same.
Seriously though I doubt having two fathers will make the mice any larger, at least no more than could be seen from typical genetic variation.
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My first thought was watching re-runs of "My Two Dads" will never be the same.
Came here hoping to find this reference. Thanks!
Unhelpful Headlne (Score:1)
Note that the article does barely mention that a female was required at the end:
> The resulting embryos were transferred to the uteruses of female mice.
that the headline and summary neglect. So no male birthing yet, apparently.
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Not that it'll be done on humans in my lifetime. I hope.
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The article also states, "their approach is the second way scientists have found to create mice using DNA from two males." Which certainly raises the question of what is the story with females. Having gestation already in place they'd all set. But then again a female could also just give birth to her own clone and not need a partner of any kind at all.
Not that it'll be done on humans in my lifetime. I hope.
Parthogenesis exists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] A little sketchy that human females can do it.
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So, we come up with the Axlotl Tanks like in Dune....
Re: Unhelpful Headlne (Score:2)
The Bene Tleilaxu won't give them up though. Just when you think they will, you'll get stabbed in the back and replaced by a face dancer.
And they wonder why... (Score:1)
And they wonder why genetic diversity [slashdot.org] has declined.
Yeah, total mystery there!
Still far from doing this in humans (Score:2)
We're still about a decade of sustained effort from being able to do this in humans. It's now mostly illegal to do any experiments involved human embryos -- even things that might be legal would get avoided. No scientist wants to risk going to jail. The other reason we can't do it in humans is because mice embryonic development is much better understood and researched than primate (human, ape, monkey etc.) embryonic development. There are enough differences (mostly in epigenetic reprogramming and chromatin
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Think of Musk and Epstein paring up (Score:1)
Some rich moron will try it on their own private island so they don't have to answer to any nation's rules. They don't have to get it right in mice first.
Evangelicals are gonna (Score:1)
...squeak louder than mice over this: "They're doing woke trans gain-of-function in US labs using illegal visa nerds!...and they're eating the mice!"
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^ There's a squeaker now.
Maybe prove the Law of Unintended Consequences? (Score:2, Funny)
We might finally see some effort to protect America's tattered social safety net as, for the first time ever, lawmakers like Lindsey Graham may have to face the consequences of becoming unwed mothers.
Now, add time-travel (Score:2)
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Heinlein also wrote By His Boostraps, which also has some similar themes of time travel and a bootstrap paradox that he wrote prior to All You Zombies. I think All You
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"Stop! I only need 3 dicks, Dr. Strangetweaker!"
all males? (Score:2)
I don't know how sex-chromosomes work in mice, (birds are REALLY weird that way) but if they're about the same as people with an X/Y layout, it would seem to be theoretically very doable. But of course the offspring would have to be male.
The economy is saved! (Score:2)
They could replace the agriculture workers, live stacked like pancakes in giant warehouses (that they pay rent to the corporation for, obviously), sustain themselves on a single cell protein combined with synthetic aminos vitamins and
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Christians are banned in China
No they arent. There aren't enough of them to effect the values of the country though.
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Found this with a quick web search.
https://www.christiantoday.com... [christiantoday.com.au]
Christians might not be banned but they do not have the right to worship as they choose. It's effectively a ban on Christians, calling it anything else would mean splitting syntactic hairs.
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As the article says Chinese Christians can only legally practice their faith at state sanctioned churches. This is certainly an infringement on their faith but is hardly the same as banning it.
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They are not banned, just limited to what they can say and do.
Re: Go China!!! (Score:2)
Yea, communists aren't real big on sharing political power with other groups. They tend to get stuck in a permanent mode of revolution, and view everything as a threat to their unachieved end goal.
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It says "published in Cell Stem Cell" which must be from the Federal Department of Redundancy Department.