Boeing Explores Sale of Space Business (theverge.com) 60
According to the Wall Street Journal, Boeing is weighing the sale of its space division. "The plans, which are reportedly at an early stage, could involve Boeing offloading the Starliner spacecraft and its projects supporting the International Space Station," reports The Verge. From the report: Boeing is facing a series of predicaments, including a fraud charge over 737 Max plane crashes and Starliner issues that left two astronauts at the ISS for months. Just this week, a Boeing-made satellite for Intelsat stopped working and fell apart suddenly after suffering an "anomaly."
"We're better off doing less and doing it better than doing more and not doing it well," Boeing CEO Kelly Ortberg said during an earnings call this week. "Clearly, our core of commercial airplanes and defense systems are going to stay with the Boeing Company for the long run. But there's probably some things on the fringe there that we can be more efficient with or that distract us from our main goal here."
However, sources tell the WSJ that Boeing will likely continue to oversee the Space Launch System, which will eventually help bring NASA astronauts back to the Moon. It's also reportedly expected to hang onto its commercial and military satellite businesses.
"We're better off doing less and doing it better than doing more and not doing it well," Boeing CEO Kelly Ortberg said during an earnings call this week. "Clearly, our core of commercial airplanes and defense systems are going to stay with the Boeing Company for the long run. But there's probably some things on the fringe there that we can be more efficient with or that distract us from our main goal here."
However, sources tell the WSJ that Boeing will likely continue to oversee the Space Launch System, which will eventually help bring NASA astronauts back to the Moon. It's also reportedly expected to hang onto its commercial and military satellite businesses.
They should sell off all the engineers too. (Score:1)
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Re: They should sell off all the engineers too. (Score:2)
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The problem is management, not engineers.
Keep any remaining engineers who have not quit out of frustration.
Sell the airplane business also. Hopefully the new company will have better management.
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Selling off all the parts of the business probably is the right move. They have a very public and literally deadly track record showing that it has not been managed well. Being proactive about it before a full-on collapse could prevent a much more difficult situation when a lack of liquidity and viability force it to happen.
They merged with McDonnell Douglas Leadership (Score:3)
The problem is management, not engineers.
As I recall the quality at Boeing was quite high until they merged with McDonnell Douglas in 1997 [airwaysmag.com] keeping the MD management and the McDonnell Douglas CEO became the Boeing Company CEO. Issues such as metal filing and frayed wiring in finished aircraft were an issue at MD but not at Boeing before then. Looks like a slow turning wheel.
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He remembers working at their facility, having a problem, calling the office to report this, and Mr. Douglas himself came driving out to the plane in a car to find out what was going wrong an
Wgo would buy them? (Score:2)
I mean everything there seems over budget, so would cause losses to a buyer and with SpaceX as direct competitor, getting the same efficiency would not be possible with current structures. Add to that Blue origin coming up too..
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I'll buy it. $10 for broken tech stuff is not unusual on Ebay, and if you can't fix it, you can often resell the parts for more than you paid the broken whole.
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Except that you also buy the debt and contractual obligations.
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No that clearly looks like satired aimed at the people who knee jerk replies about how DEI is the cause of all the world's problems. I agree though, satire on Slashdot is not a good idea since so many readers are unable to distinguish it from serious comments.
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There's a term for that. [wikipedia.org]
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Add to that Blue origin coming up too..
Blue Origin is on its 25th year without even an orbital launch attempt. Most new space companies ACHIEVE an orbital flight within 6 to 8 years of their founding. So whats up with Blue Origin being so slow? All they seem to produce is attempts to interfere with SpaceX and their "carnival ride" for millionaires.
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Blue Origin is scheduling their first test flight of New Glenn next month. While I have almost no doubt that the demonstrator they'll be launch will reach orbit, I'm less certain about them successfully doing a recovery landing at the barge. But they can surprise me.
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Blue Origin is scheduling their first test flight of New Glenn next month. .
They have changed that first test flight schedule many times over the last FOUR years.
So... what's sellable? (Score:5, Informative)
https://www.boeing.com/company... [boeing.com]
"Defense, Space & Security
Defense, Space & Security (BDS) is a diversified, global organization providing leading solutions for the design, production, modification, service and support of commercial derivatives, military rotorcraft, satellites, human space exploration and autonomous systems. It helps customers address a host of requirements through a broad portfolio that includes KC-46 aerial refueling aircraft, based on the Boeing 767 commercial airplane; AH-64 Apache helicopter; the 702 family of satellites; CST-100 Starliner spacecraft; and the autonomous Echo Voyager. Driven by the Boeing vision to connect, protect, explore and inspire the world through aerospace innovation, BDS is seeking ways to better leverage information technologies and continues to invest in the research and development of enhanced capabilities and platforms."
Well, the Starliner is overbudget and late. Fine for a cost plus contract, but lethal for fixed cost. If they can't find a sucker to pawn it off on, it'll save them money just cancelling the contract, assuming there are no delivery penalties.
"The company had warned Oct. 11 that it would take a total of $2 billion in charges in the third quarter on four fixed-price programs in its Defense, Space and Security, or BDS, business unit, including Starliner. The company did not state then how large the Starliner charge would be, although $1.6 billion in those charges were allocated to two military aircraft programs.
The latest charge brings the total losses Boeing has recorded on Starliner to about $1.85 billion. The mounting losses have raised questions about whether Boeing will ever be able to make a profit on Starliner and might instead choose to end it. "
https://spacenews.com/boeing-l... [spacenews.com]
So the question is, what are the other 3 fixed-price programs? Because those probably will also be on the chopping block in order to stop the bleeding.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news... [yahoo.com]
"The KC-46s roughly $661 million charge stems partly from the work stoppage that began Sept. 13, the company said, which hit work on the 767 airliner that form the foundation of the refueling aircraft.
The strike also led the company to decide to wrap up most of its 767 production, and beginning in 2027, only produce 767-2C aircraft to support the KC-46 program, Boeing said. This decision to cease production of most 767s also contributed to the program’s charges."
So those will be one-offs that will no longer be able to get scale efficiencies from civilian side production... but on the other hand, if they're not building the 767 anymore, the production lines and tooling could be spun off.
"Boeing also racked up a roughly $908 million charge on the Air Force’s T-7 Red Hawk trainer, which was driven by expected higher costs on production contracts beginning in 2026. The Commercial Crew space capsule program had a $250 million charge, and the Navy’s MQ-25 Stingray program had a $217 million charge, its first of the year.
When combined with $250 million in previous charges on the VC-25B Air Force One program, Boeing defense’s five major fixed price development programs have incurred $3.3 billion in losses so far this year."
Well, they're probably not going to give up the Air Force one contract. But it is going to continue to be a drag on earnings, since the delivery date has been pushed back so far.
https://simpleflying.com/boein... [simpleflying.com]
"Recently, Breaking Defense reported that the maiden flight of the new aircraft has been pushed back from November 2024 to March 2026. Boeing has faced numerous delays over the years, including major design issues and
Re:So... what's sellable? (Score:4, Interesting)
Regarding the 702 bus satellites... I don't think any buyer is going to step up until a root cause has been found for the latest Intelsat incident. Disintegrating multi-million dollar satellites that you have to make good on are not good for the bottom line.
https://spacenews.com/intelsat... [spacenews.com]
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Boeing only won the refueling plane contract after intense lobbying from their favorite congress critters over a far better proposal from the Europeans. Right now they're probably wishing that they have not won that contract, as it's also a fixed price one and they're also losing their shirts on.
Well I'm still seeing a disconnect (Score:3)
This would be a more convincing statement... except for the fact that they're having huge issues inside their supposed core competency areas as well.
In exactly what part of their business does she think Boeing is currently "doing better"?
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This would be a more convincing statement... except for the fact that they're having huge issues inside their supposed core competency areas as well.
In exactly what part of their business does she think Boeing is currently "doing better"?
Well, the idea that they could be trusted for commercial airplanes is clearly fanciful but the defense systems aspect isn't so bad - the military has a lot of uses for a high speed airborn projectile that flies unpredictably and impacts spectacularly.
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Seems to be doing better on the older/existing products. All of the new products are garbage.
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Why would SpaceX want this? I mean the only thing probably worth their time is Boeing's satellite business, which just had one of them disintegrated in GEO. ULA is also for sale, and its many contract is probably worth Blue Orgin's time to buy out.
They should ofload SLS as well... (Score:2)
Sell both SLS and the capsule stuff to whichever of the "new-generation" competitors to SapceX is the most likely to sort out all the problems and give NASA the reliable "second source" for launching people and cargo into Space they need alongside SpaceX.
They could even commit to keeping all the jobs in the old Space Shuttle factories (the ones certain senators are so desperate to keep around) but to making something better than the junk that is SLS using the same factory.
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I suspect that sort of policy is a big part of the problem. When the doc cuts away the gangrene no one tries to keep the amputated limb alive.
Re:They should ofload SLS as well... (Score:5, Interesting)
The senate lunch system was literally invented to keep Boeing's space division running. Without it this division doesn't exist.
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That's the point, Boeing would sell off its entire space division (including SLS) and go back to focusing on airplanes instead.
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Read sibling to your comment for the full version, they said what I was thinking eloquently and with citations
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SLS is cost plus for Boeing, so they make money the longer they drag it out.
https://oig.nasa.gov/wp-conten... [nasa.gov]
The big risk is SpaceX delivering Starship/super heavy and suddenly invalidating much of the purpose of SLS. At that point there would be pressure to cancel the remainder of the contract and/or eliminate the possibility of contract renewal once the current deliveries are done.
Ironically because Boeing has pissed off NASA by dragging their feet and delivering substandard components, this also poses a
The SLS should be cancelled (Score:4, Insightful)
"Boeing will likely continue to oversee the Space Launch System"
The Space Launch System (SLS) should be cancelled. Here is an article by Bloomberg that explains why every clearly: https://www.bloomberg.com/opin... [bloomberg.com]
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If Boeing sells of SLS, I expect it to be cancelled soon after.
I note that Boeing is trying to sell all the space stuff, except for SLS - SLS is a cost plus contract so they can keep on earning on it, regardless how much it costs.
The other space stuff are not guaranteed earners, so they want them out.
Wonder who will want to bid on them, if at all. Or would it be something where Boeing has to pay the buyer to take those divisions off their hands?
We sacked everyone with a brain (Score:5, Insightful)
now we can't design shit.
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Institutional knowledge once lost is hard to reobtained. Boeing like to say that their companies (the ones they bought up) literally send American to the Moon, and they're right. All of those greybeards have long since retired and the company don't know how to do that again.
Time for old movie quote (Score:2)
"I'll buy that for a dollar!"
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No, no you don't want it. Boeing Space division have several money losing contracts attached to it. Why do you think they're trying to off load it?
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I'd totally buy it. I'd pay my dollar, take official ownership, declare chapter 11 bankruptcy, kill the money losing contracts and when I came out of protected chapter 11, I'd sell whatever was left for a few million. The way the big boys on Wall Street do it. It's how Romney made his money.
No shit it's hanging on to SLS. (Score:4, Insightful)
Sell? To whom? (Score:2)
An undertaker?
Critical MIC infrastructure (Score:3)
Sensible - if there are any takers (Score:2)
"...Boeing is weighing the sale of its space division".
How much are they offering for someone to take it off their hands?
Sell? Yeah that solves everything (Score:2)
Just who the hell would be dumb enough to buy that lead-lined can of worms?
I feel bad for the true engineers, principled managers, technicians, and skilled workers that are still at Boeing. I see them as having been betrayed in every possible way I can think of.
In the past quarter when the problem with their docking craft came out, stranding the passengers at ISS, it came out publicly how much the people working for Boeing hate SpaceX and Musk. That is what they have been reduced to? The word patheti
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Hate for Musk is understandable, but SpaceX is full of intelligent people. Also I think this is part of the issue with commercial operations - commerce is inherently about competition instead of cooperation.
NÃ SÃ (Score:3)
Goal is get Starliner off of the books (Score:4, Insightful)
Force 'em to write it off (Score:2)
This way, the lesson will be more painful for management.
Whoever said, (Score:2)
New Motto (Score:2)
Boeing has a new motto: "Boeing - the name goes on before the parts fall off"