CERN To Expel Hundreds of Russian Scientists (semafor.com) 57
An anonymous reader shares a report: CERN, the European particle-physics collaboration that operates the Large Hadron Collider, will expel hundreds of Russian-affiliated scientists from its laboratories. The Geneva-based organization decided to cut ties with Moscow after Russia's 2022 invasion of Ukraine, ending nearly 60 years of collaboration, and the agreements are now lapsing.
I kind of feel for them (Score:3, Insightful)
Scientists just want to turn out science, but at the same time... Russia's really earned international pariah status.
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They might get killed, or worse, expelled...
...oh, wait.
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I don't know about anybody else, but Russia not having direct personal access to high energy physics research seems like a good idea.
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It means more open spots in CERN for peace loving North Korean scientists!
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I don't think particle physicists are a dominant force in Russian politics.
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When as that ever worked? If anything, some of them might radicalize against the West...
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Does that mean threatening their research is the right move, so that they turn political and can change the public opinion in Russia?
If people from outside Russia threaten their research, if they turn political and try to change public opinion it would presumably be in favor of Russia, not against.
Re:I kind of feel for them (Score:5, Insightful)
Scientists just want to turn out science
That is not always true. And, even if that is their personal feelings, since they and their loved ones are under the thumb of a dictator - they may be forced to do other things we might prefer they not be able to do. Spying, for instance... or even sabotage.
Re:I kind of feel for them (Score:5, Insightful)
There are a lot of issues to consider. Could any of the science at CERN help Russia in its illegal war against Ukraine? CERN does a lot more than just the LHC. It was where the World Wide Web was invented, for example. CERN is behind KiCad and other useful software.
Renewing the agreements would have been a legal minefield for CERN.
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So... The US has done the whole 'hearts and minds' crap which killed a lot of people and didn't change much otherwise in the long run... but in modern times it has yet to try and annex Canada on the pretext that Canada requires liberation from Nazis and genocidal war is the best way to achieve that.
Russia needs to be properly broken so it gives up imperial designs for the foreseeable future.
Re: I kind of feel for them (Score:5, Insightful)
"Ukraine was getting cozy with NATO".
Yes. An organization dedicated to protecting members against Russian aggression.
Only Putin's stooges and useful idiots present NATO as a threat to Russia. The only threat NATO presents to Russia is to its ability to invade and conquer other nations.
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I agree with this. You can point out the questionably aggressive things the US has done, no lie. But NATO? Name me one act of aggression NATO has participated in. (Bracing for incoming posts about how NATO defensively arming itself or accepting members that requested entry constitutes aggression.)
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Name me one act of aggression NATO has participated in.
I heard they once moved Taco Tuesday to Thursday w/o asking anyone first. :-)
Re: I kind of feel for them (Score:5, Insightful)
"Ukraine was getting cozy with NATO.'
So Russia found it necessary to demonstrate why that had been a really good idea.
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Funny how you Russian trolls always bring that up. Why would a country want to get cozy with NATO? Hmmmm. Let me think. Could it be because Russia keeps saying they're going to invade that country and return it to the old Soviet Union?
Naw. That can't be it.
Re: I kind of feel for them (Score:2)
The Cuban missile crisis didn't involve any kind of invasion or anything resembling a hot war. And that was basically Kennedy's doing because he ordered the nuclear weapons deployments in Italy and Turkey that precipitated it. He even stated once that he almost caused WWIII. Russia didn't even care about the bay of pigs incident, they just used it as a justification for Cuba to host nukes there. The whole point was to get the US to dismantle nukes in Italy and Turkey, even though Russia already had 162 nucl
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It is more like Canada though, practically speaking. Russia claims Ukraine really isn't a separate nation, and does not have a separate culture or language, that they're all just Russians anyway. So USA and Canada fits that mold better than USA and Cuba since Cubans don't speak a language similar at all to English, and don't have a culture that is similar to America and never had a common monarch a couple centuries ago.
Ukraine was improving its corruption, doing a great job at cleaning house and making pr
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All of NATO expansion has been done by countries aspiring to join, Vilnius Group, Adriatic Charter, there's valid reason countries want to join, obvious over the decades.
Estonia and Latvia share a border with Russia and they're feeling pretty smart and vindicated today to pursue membership.
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On one hand, NATO is basically the anti-Russia alliance.
On the other hand, Russia has a long history of aggression towards neighbors that have resources they want, and of claiming that they own those neighbors' land even when they were civilized hundreds of years before Russia. Europe needs an anti-Russia alliance, because Russia is so hostile.
Don't misrepresent the reality of things, it hurts you in the long run.
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Ummm, Afghanistan. I mean, their government organized an attack on the US on 2001-09-11. I don't see any reason why the US should have let that slide.
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Yeah but the US is in fact a democracy so things can and do change. After 9/11 we were really taking our stupid pills for sure but good or bad (mostly bad) the American public as a whole wanted some revanchism and we got it, to our regret. The international community responded in kind as well, we all remember "Freedom Fries" because we couldn't gather really any allies for Iraq because everyone else knew it was bullshit.
Over time though you can see today the American public, due to getting into those bad
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if Putin wants a war what is in their political system is to stop him?
And, if someone tries, they'd better first make sure there aren't any large windows nearby. ... and stay off planes.
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As long as Russia has windows, political figures there will line up behind Putin and applaud.
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I'm not an American.
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Can you say that again, with a Nixon voice?
Re:I kind of feel for them (Score:4, Insightful)
Could any of the science at CERN help Russia in its illegal war against Ukraine?
Yes. Experience gained by working scientists with advanced electronics of the sort found at a CERN site (high performance DACs, ADCs, oscillators, lasers, world class instruments, etc.) that might not be available within Russia due to sanctions is extremely valuable in military applications. This would include access to proprietary development tools, documentation, specialized instruments, access to vendors, etc. All of these things are used in radar, guidance, communication and satellite systems.
No Military Science (Score:2)
Could any of the science at CERN help Russia in its illegal war against Ukraine?
No, it's clearly specified in Article II [web.cern.ch] of CERN's founding charter that CERN "shall have no concern with work for military requirements and the results of its experimental and theoretical work shall be published or otherwise made generally available.". Given this it is hard to see how anyone on either side could gain an advantage since both would be aware of any research since it is made public.
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Probably, kicking them out of CERN also means invalidating their visas, so they will be kicked out of the whole Schengen area.
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I feel bad for the Russian scientists. If they have to go back to Russia they will get thrown in the meat grinder (conscripted).
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Alert to /. (Score:1)
This is off the main topic, but related.
I tried to mod up a comment as Insightful.
Upon doing so, the post was ranked as "Score 2, Troll".
This is not the first time I have seen this happen, and lately I have seen a number of comments marked "troll" when there was no rational reason for such.
I am posting this note primarily to undo my munged moderation, but also, I think there may be a behind-the-scenes error in how the mod points are handled depending on the starting level.
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That was probably because somebody else modded it troll and your preferences give the troll rating more weight.
What you actually did by posting was leave that troll point as the (currently) only point on the post.
Re: Alert to /. (Score:2)
If the person you modded is anything like me, they take pride in receiving score 2: Troll. It's only a shame that score 5: Troll isn't possible anymore. Those were the good ol' days. You see, being an informative troll is the best kind of trolling.
Possible explanation (Score:2)
This is off the main topic, but related.
I tried to mod up a comment as Insightful.
Upon doing so, the post was ranked as "Score 2, Troll".
This is not the first time I have seen this happen, and lately I have seen a number of comments marked "troll" when there was no rational reason for such.
I am posting this note primarily to undo my munged moderation, but also, I think there may be a behind-the-scenes error in how the mod points are handled depending on the starting level.
I mod a lot of comments one way that comes out another way. For example, I'll mod something "insightful" and have it come up "informative".
If I had to guess I'd say that the comment retains its first mod type. An original 2-level comment has no type, but once someone mods it then it keeps that mod.
I've also modded things up that became "funny", or that I thought were funny and came up as something else. I've also had my own comments modded *down* as insightful, and so on. I figure it's just trolls striking
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I haven't looked at Slashcode in a decade but the label used to be the plurality mod.
So two Insightfuls and an Interesting would get you an Insightful. And the number is just mathematical - but your preferences, the poster's preferences, your zoo relationship, your relationships' zoo relationship, etc. all modify what you see as the number.
"It's complicated."
I'm old enough to remember when Slashcode got updated and when Technocrat fixed all the bugs. :sigh:
Here's to 25-yr-old perl code that still hums alon
That headline tho (Score:1)
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In any case it's meaningless, fusion power is as hopeless as peace in the Middle East ...
You apparently don't know what CERN actually is [wikipedia.org].
Re: Ooohh (Score:2)
Yes I'm sure knowing the mass of the proton to 25 more digits is of vital importance....
Sad Day for Science (Score:2)
Dragging international scientific research into the political arena is not a good idea. Yes, the Russian government has behaved appallingly but that was equally true of the
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I never thought CERN would do something like this given that one of its founding goals (in Article II of its charter) was to promote "international co-operation in nuclear research". I've spent many years working at CERN both locally and remotely and remember the Soviet scientists working at CERN towards the end of the Cold War period.
Dragging international scientific research into the political arena is not a good idea. Yes, the Russian government has behaved appallingly but that was equally true of the old Soviet government and yet somehow we managed to use Science as a common goal to help bring us together because understanding the universe is a common goal that all scientists have regardless of where they come from.
I think it has more to do with the delta than the absolute value.
Soviet Russia was doing some nasty things, but it was liberalizing, so participation in things like CERN was a carrot meant to show everyone could get along.
Modern Russia is also doing nasty things, and it's getting worse, so taking away things like participation in things like CERN is a stick used to show that Russia is becoming a pariah state.
I don't know if it's a signal that will have much influence, but to the extent it does it should hel
PR STUNT (Score:1)
What a lot of bollocks.
Piss-poor title, as usual... (Score:2)
Tilte: CERN To Expel Hundreds of Russian Scientists
Summary: [...] will expel hundreds of Russian-affiliated scientists [...]
Being "Russian" and "Russian-affiliated" aren't the same thing. Get some freakin' editorial standards, Slashdot!
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Russia Russia Russia! (Score:2)
Just think what the Russian Military could do with gold nuclei accelerated to the speed of light!
They could create microscopic black holes, or cause Bosons to spill over the side of containers, even.
CERN to Expel American Scientists (Score:2)
...was not a headline you saw when the United States carried out its unprovoked, unjustified, immoral war of conquest against Iraq in 2003.