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Scientists Find Humans Age Dramatically In Two Bursts: At 44, Then 60 (theguardian.com) 118
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: The study, which tracked thousands of different molecules in people aged 25 to 75, detected two major waves of age-related changes at around ages 44 and again at 60. The findings could explain why spikes in certain health issues including musculoskeletal problems and cardiovascular disease occur at certain ages. [...] The research tracked 108 volunteers, who submitted blood and stool samples and skin, oral and nasal swabs every few months for between one and nearly seven years. Researchers assessed 135,000 different molecules (RNA, proteins and metabolites) and microbes (the bacteria, viruses and fungi living in the guts and on the skin of the participants).
The abundance of most molecules and microbes did not shift in a gradual, chronological fashion. When the scientists looked for clusters of molecules with the largest shifts, they found these transformations tended to occur when people were in their mid-40s and early 60s. The mid-40s aging spike was unexpected and initially assumed to be a result of perimenopausal changes in women skewing results for the whole group. But the data revealed similar shifts were happening in men in their mid-40s, too. "This suggests that while menopause or perimenopause may contribute to the changes observed in women in their mid-40s, there are likely other, more significant factors influencing these changes in both men and women," said Dr Xiaotao Shen, a former postdoctoral scholar at Stanford medical school and first author of the study who is now based at Nanyang Technological University Singapore.
The first wave of changes included molecules linked to cardiovascular disease and the ability to metabolize caffeine, alcohol and lipids. The second wave of changes included molecules involved in immune regulation, carbohydrate metabolism and kidney function. Molecules linked to skin and muscle ageing changed at both time points. Previous research suggested that a later spike in aging may occur around the age of 78, but the latest study could not confirm this because the oldest participants were 75. The pattern fits with previous evidence that the risk of many age-related diseases does not increase incrementally, with Alzheimer's and cardiovascular disease risk showing a steep uptick after 60. It is also possible that some of the changes could be linked to lifestyle or behavioral factors. For instance, the change in alcohol metabolism could result from an uptick in consumption in people's mid-40s, which can be a stressful period of life. The findings have been published in the journal Nature Aging.
The abundance of most molecules and microbes did not shift in a gradual, chronological fashion. When the scientists looked for clusters of molecules with the largest shifts, they found these transformations tended to occur when people were in their mid-40s and early 60s. The mid-40s aging spike was unexpected and initially assumed to be a result of perimenopausal changes in women skewing results for the whole group. But the data revealed similar shifts were happening in men in their mid-40s, too. "This suggests that while menopause or perimenopause may contribute to the changes observed in women in their mid-40s, there are likely other, more significant factors influencing these changes in both men and women," said Dr Xiaotao Shen, a former postdoctoral scholar at Stanford medical school and first author of the study who is now based at Nanyang Technological University Singapore.
The first wave of changes included molecules linked to cardiovascular disease and the ability to metabolize caffeine, alcohol and lipids. The second wave of changes included molecules involved in immune regulation, carbohydrate metabolism and kidney function. Molecules linked to skin and muscle ageing changed at both time points. Previous research suggested that a later spike in aging may occur around the age of 78, but the latest study could not confirm this because the oldest participants were 75. The pattern fits with previous evidence that the risk of many age-related diseases does not increase incrementally, with Alzheimer's and cardiovascular disease risk showing a steep uptick after 60. It is also possible that some of the changes could be linked to lifestyle or behavioral factors. For instance, the change in alcohol metabolism could result from an uptick in consumption in people's mid-40s, which can be a stressful period of life. The findings have been published in the journal Nature Aging.
If they'd asked me, I could've told them. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:If they'd asked me, I could've told them. (Score:5, Interesting)
50, but yeah that 44 thing sounds spot on. My knees started to get funky and my hair started to rapidly grey.
I hate it. My advice to kids;- Dont get old, its a trap.
Re:If they'd asked me, I could've told them. (Score:4, Funny)
I'm very seriously considering not getting old.
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While I agree that youth is wasted on the young, I am nearly 50 and am in much better shape than at any time in my 30s.
My early to mid-40s were some of the best years of my life.
I definitely changed for the better around that time and I am really looking forward to my 50s and beyond.
Yeah, you slow down physically and you can't party all night and be a reasonable human being the next day (or a week after...), but mentally, I feel so much less burdened than I did in my younger years. I have fewer and fewer ca
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You only have two options there, my friend.
Growing old is a lot more tolerable than not, I can tell you as someone who did.
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careful listening to him, folks.
As he did "not grow older", we must presume that he is a zombie! (or worse . . .) :)
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There are people who can help you with that. [wikipedia.org]
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That can be arranged...
Re: If they'd asked me, I could've told them. (Score:2)
If you donate your organs now while they are fresh you can even advance medical science
Re:If they'd asked me, I could've told them. (Score:5, Interesting)
My advice to children: try to found and grow your family early so you have 2 or more children grow out of puberty before any of the parents hits 44.
Two or more because 1 child is more tiresome work than 2, because your 1 toddler will have limitless energy that only other children can truly tire out. Caring for one only child will take up insane amounts of energy from the adults, believe me. 2 or more will entertain themselves and leave you more time for the logistics. And logistics grow a lot slower than the number of children.
Puberty of 1 or 2 of the children before 44-45 because like TFA said, aging takes a hit then and toddlers and adolescents in puberty take a lot of energy and conflicts to raise. With 1 child out of puberty before that, and a healthy integration of that child in household management, you have a strong helper when you need it.
Don't make my mistake in waiting until it's almost too late for that, because you will notice how raising children in a stable environment is one of the best experiences and most rewarding things you will ever do and everything you did before will pale in comparison, leaving you wondering why you waited that long just to do it now that you're out of breath when playing soccer or nerf / water wars with the little ones.
Re: If they'd asked me, I could've told them. (Score:4, Informative)
Or just don't have any at all and enjoy your life!
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You will never enjoy life fully without meaningful interconnection with other humans. And as you might have heard, blood is thicker than water. No connections with other humans will be as intense, as meaningful as those with your own family and descendants.
Also, if you're a woman, you will notice a sharp drop into complete meaninglessness beyond menopause unless being a mother by that time. Meaningless as in "they don't even hate her, she's just the last priority for everything and anything, all the time, e
Re: If they'd asked me, I could've told them. (Score:2)
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My advice to children: try to found and grow your family early so you have 2 or more children grow out of puberty before any of the parents hits 44.
When I was 44, I had four kids aged from 4 to 11. I did fine, thank you.
Maybe I was just lucky, or maybe having young kids around forces you to stay alert and fit.
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Or just do what I did and not have kids. I have my girlfriends kid who's an absolute sweety and thats good enough for me.
I'm not worried about passing my genes on. I'm unusually short, and have asthma, epilepsy, ADHD and moderate obesity. My genes suck. My parents genes are passed on via my sister (who contrary to me, is athletically healthy, an oxford PhD graduate with an awesome athlete/oxford grad husband, great genes all around and beautiful kids) so my obligations there arent so serious.
Plus, this worl
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Just make enough money to father a family of at least four before age 28 bro, it's so simple!!!
A family of four doesn't require a lot of money. Without a lot of money, though, it will require a lot of sacrifice: small house/apartment (kids will have to share rooms); little to no eating out, and no food delivery; strictly limited and budgeted entertainment; no vacation travel except by car, and that infrequently and with minimal, cheap hotels; not much in the way of new clothing/shoes (thrift shops are great); older, used cars; etc.
You know, the way most everyone lived 50 years ago when typical fami
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A family of four doesn't require a lot of money.
You are completely out of touch with Reality there my friend. You are clearly not very wealthy as you think you are adjacent to the poor, but you are far wealthier than you think you are.
The vast majority of jobs available are crappy and pay even crappier. It is almost impossible to live solo anymore as it now takes two paychecks to pay for a living space. There is nothing left over to raise children with, sacrifices or no.
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The vast majority of jobs available are crappy and pay even crappier. It is almost impossible to live solo anymore as it now takes two paychecks to pay for a living space. There is nothing left over to raise children with, sacrifices or no.
I know lots of people who do it. Yes, most of them have two incomes (so did my parents when I was a kid in the 70s and 80s). But in very few cases is either income much over $20 per hour, and many are less.
You sound a lot like my adult children -- and I agree that they couldn't raise families... but it's because they expect to live some approximation of the way I live, ignoring the fact that it took me 35 years of hard work to get to where I am. They like to eat out. They like to have nice cars. They
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I'm in my mid 40's and 44 sounds around right for me as well. My blood sugar and blood pressure both got noticably worse a few years ago with no real change in lifestyle on my part. I switched to intermittent fasting and that seemed to take of the problems but it was either that or medication because apparently my body wasn't functioning as well as it used to.
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For blood sugar control, what you really need to do is remove sugars from you diet, and limit starches. Intermittent fasting is probably one way to give your body a rest from processing sugars and starches. (I didn't pay attention to my blood sugar until it became clear that I MUST. If you start earlier, you may be able to do a less strict version.)
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I was already low carb and very low sugar / sweeteners. Part of my problem is that I'm dealing with shit genetics, lots of heart disease and diabetes for men in my family. I could also probably get more exercise and am working on hopefully developing a pattern I can regularly follow for that. I've bought a rowing machine and I'm hoping that does the trick for getting a pattern going although one hasn't taken yet.
My weight has always been between healthy and just a bit overweight though (I was at a healthy w
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am working on hopefully developing a pattern .... I've bought a rowing machine and I'm hoping that does the trick for getting a pattern going although one hasn't taken yet.
find some exercise you actually enjoy doing. sitting in a rowing cage isn't a very appealing activity (unless you have reached perfect zen i guess, ymmv). i would suggest some outdoors or group activity that inspires you: rowing in actual water, walking, hiking, running, biking, climbing, skating, dancing, ball games ... there's lots of stuff you can do that will give you enjoyment along with exercise, which will better motivate you to get that pattern going and ... will be much more fun! sport and fun is g
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Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately my "outdoorsing" (which encompassing several of the things you list) and the associated exercise doesnt happen anywhere close to a daily basis and is unlikely to ever get close due to my own time priorities. Since I want daily exercise I need something that will be more time efficient and walking into my second bedroom where the rowing machine is is awfully time efficient. I suppose I could bike ride around town but dealing with traffic while out riding doesnt seem fun to m
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My hair went gray in a few years like someone threw a switch. Fortunately I've avoided the bum joints and such issues.
Re:If they'd asked me, I could've told them. (Score:5, Funny)
I'm a year older than you, but this doesn't ring true for me. Why Just the other day I... I... sorry, lost my train of thought.
Wait, who are you people again?
Re: If they'd asked me, I could've told them. (Score:2, Funny)
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I'm a year older than you, but this doesn't ring true for me. Why Just the other day I... I... sorry, lost my train of thought.
Wait, who are you people again?
Kalkstein, got too much into mushrooms again?
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I'm a bit over 61 years and 7 months old. I can confirm that in the last few years I have felt like I have aged significantly. When I have a hard day at work, I feel tired and in need of a nap. I don't know about ageing in my forties, but I noticed in my late thirties that I was starting to lose hair at the top of my head. I thought I was balding, but since then I have had a small bald spot at the top of my head where my hair pattern is centred.
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In the last few years I've started craving a nap around 3pm like my in-laws do.
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I'm 20 years younger and I take a nap after work whether or not it was a hard day. I go to the gym first, but I take nap daily.
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Maybe you can look up Barnum Effect [wikipedia.org] too.
I bet no matter what age the article said, be it 45, 48, 50, 55, or 65 someone will say "Oh, yeah! I felt that too!"
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But the thing is, at any of those ages it would probably be correct, given a large enough population to select from. People aren't all identical. The suggestion here is more "there are two major shifts" than "everyone does it at this time". They did a study of only a hundred or so people at a distribution of ages, and that's not enough to pinpoint a particular age as "true for everyone". They did pick out a pattern that seemed to be true for many of their studied individuals.
This will clearly need to be
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It isn't just perceived effects, they are also noting incidences of cancer and heart disease and seeing they ramp up at those approximate ages.
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It isn't just perceived effects, they are also noting incidences of cancer and heart disease and seeing they ramp up at those approximate ages.
That's exactly the point. It *ramps up*, it doesn't step up. You could point to any point on the ramp and say "that's a step up", and *someone* would agree simply due to individual differences and statistics.
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Well I went from having better than 20/20 vision at age 40 ("superman vision" according to my optometrist) to needing glasses pretty much bang on at 44, just like he predicted.
Not looking forward to what turns to crap at 60 - but I guess it's better than the alternative.
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My eyes really went to shit in my mid 40s.
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This was me exactly!
It was always in the back of my mind that I would need glasses because both my parents wore them, but my vision never wavered.... Until I hit my early 40's (I think it was 44 actually). Then it was a very rapid decline over the next few years, to the point where I cannot even read my watch without glasses. Luckily, my far-sight is still fine.... for now.
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Same here - my eye doctor said "That's 44" and I was like "44 what?" - he said "Your age, remember" Oh yeah right. Then he sold me on a $3k acrylic lens to replace my natural one. Eye surgery does not improve eyesight IMO.
Re: If they'd asked me, I could've told them. (Score:2)
Re: If they'd asked me, I could've told them. (Score:2)
Wish I could go to the pool and swim some laps. But ever since my health club started their Silver Sneakers program, they have to keep it heated close to where you could boil lobsters in it.
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I'm 62, but I guess anecdotal evidence isn't worth much. Still, I can confirm the full and complete accuracy of their work. *Sigh*
Yeah, I'm 55 and looking toward my 60s with trepidation. There some big, ambitious things I'd like to do yet that require good mental and physical fitness, but I can't do them quite yet because of financial commitments -- but I'm afraid that by the time I'm financially able, my ability will begin to rapidly decline.
I'm putting a lot of effort into physical fitness right now, hoping to stave off or reduce the effects of aging, but I think odds are good that it won't be enough.
Now that I think about it... (Score:2)
...44 is about when my hair started rapidly thinning on top. It was slowly receding before, but went turbo after 44.
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Luckily I didn't get thinning hair but during my 40s I went from dark brown hair to grey-white in about 6-7 years. No change in lifestyle or extra stress either.
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Loss of hair shaft melanin was found to be associated with a decrease in both bulb melanin content and bulb melanocyte population. Although few melanocytes were present in the bulbs of grey hair, they still expressed tyrosinase and tyrosinaserelated protein1, synthesized and transferred melanins to cortical keratinocytes as seen by the presence of melanin granules. In white hair bulbs, no melanocytes could be detected either with pMel17 or vimentin labelling. Pigmented hair follicles are known to contain inactive melanocytes in the outer root sheath (ORS), and grey and white hairs were also found to contain some of these quiescent melanocytes. However, their population was decreased compared with pigmented hair follicles, ranging from small to nil. This depletion of melanocytes in the different areas of white hairs was detected throughout the hair cycle, namely at telogen and early anagen stages. https://academic.oup.com/bjd/a... [oup.com]
This process is accelerated dramatically with Bcl2 deficiency, which causes selective apoptosis of melanocyte stem cells, but not of differentiated melanocytes, within the niche at their entry into the dormant state. https://www.science.org/doi/ab... [science.org]
the melanocyte stem cell (MelSC) population, previously known as ‘amelanotic melanocytes’. The MelSCs directly adhere to hair follicle stem cells, the niche cells for MelSCs and reside in the hair follicle bulge–subbulge area, the lower permanent portion of the hair follicle, to serve as a melanocyte reservoir for skin and hair pigmentation. MelSCs form a stem cell system within individual hair follicles and provide a ‘hair pigmentary unit’ for each cycle of hair pigmentation. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.co... [wiley.com]
Junk Science? (Score:4, Interesting)
"The research tracked 108 volunteers, who submitted blood and stool samples and skin, oral and nasal swabs every few months for between one and nearly seven years. "
I'm trying to figure out how they arrived at these conclusions with no one who experienced both of these alleged effects since they only collected data for seven years at most. This looks like junk science with someone mining a dataset to create interesting results.
Re:Junk Science? (Score:4, Interesting)
It bugs me that I have to keep saying this but......
You could read the paper and find out the methods?
Just saying.
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I am not a scientist and I have no ability to evaluate it. I have the ability to evaluate the story
The story is a shitty version of the paper. If you can't evaluate the paper, then you double can't evaluate the story.
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What would be a serious number of participants, a serious number of longitudinal years? If one assumes the subjects will fit some perfect curve of probability, then the study can detect a common/universal event, even if the event happens at different ages/times in the subjects. The obvious one is dying and another would be puberty. We might even be able to discern when people suffer pregnancy, since obviously, not everyone becomes pregnant.
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We have a study with 108 people that makes claims about the nature of aging in humans in general. It is based on at most 7 years of data.
7 years of data for different people covering the entire period of 50 years. what that means is that the sample is not exhaustive for every person but ...
I am suggesting no one should take it seriously.
... that doesn't invalidate the study nor their findings. ofc more datapoints would be better, but given it takes 50 years to collect those it might be a while until we get something more conclusive.
other than that, that you admit to not being qualified to verify this and at the same time feel qualified to dismiss the results as "junk science" is just comi
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"No, I am not a scientist and I have no ability to evaluate it."
I don't know what you think you're doing, other than evaluating it.
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Re:Junk Science? (Score:4, Informative)
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Re: Junk Science? (Score:2)
I have heard from friends in medicine that this self-selection problem is unfortunately why so much useful medicine info has come from enforced relocation camps: a wide band of socioeconomic levels suddenly displaced and unable to leave.
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You don't need a group of people with both broken legs and broken arms to determine which takes to heal.
Dismissing the study as junk science because you don't understand how they could find changes at two different age points in a group of people is... problematic at best.
Your biases are showing.
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I'm trying to figure out how they arrived at these conclusions with no one who experienced both of these alleged effects since they only collected data for seven years at most.
Yes. If they think these conclusions are interesting, they should follow up by tracking different cohorts through both hypothesized ages.
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You should take a statistics class or something so you can actually evaluate this stuff instead of guessing wildly.
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I think it's more junk reporting than junk science. I didn't read the article, but 100 people is clearly insufficient to make population wide generalizations. Especially 100 people with a range of different ages.
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I can definitely see this in photos (Score:5, Interesting)
At 41 I could pass for much younger. 45 and up shows a massive aging acceleration.
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I'm 56, and I'm really one of those freaks who just doesn't age. No gray hair, in great shape, finally noticing that my hands have a couple of wrinkles. But there are people my age who could pass for my grandparents, the last of whom died in 1994.
Aye (Score:2)
Gonna need a bigger sample size (Score:1)
And genetics. YMMV.
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Not unexpected (Score:2)
I think many men experience starting grey hair (linked to proteins) around the age of 50, eyesight changes to become more far-sigthed so you have more time to run away from danger. And being closer to 60 than to 50 I can say that recovery in general (after exercise, cuts etc) did go worse around the age of 50. Building muscles is harder, and gaining weight is easier.
So the mid-40'ish or around 50-ish for me and colleagues is not an unknown, we know that 50 is a sharp corner where things starts to go downh
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We don't really understand what causes Alzheimer's. Asserting that it *is* DNA variation isn't that certain (except for a couple of places ... but even within that group there's a wide variation). All sorts of things are suspected to cause Alzheimer's, and possibly a LOT of them are contributory factors. But age is definitely correlated...possibly because it takes a long time to develop.
Perhaps when we understand Alzheimer's and also this thing they're looking at, we'll see that they are causally related
That explains (Score:2)
Well damn. (Score:3)
I turn 44 this weekend.
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My 44 has been an interesting year... But I'm giving it up... as of tomorrow.
Does that mean I'm over this "hump" of accelerated aging? Easy-going until I hit the big six-oh...?
-bZj
Re: Well damn. (Score:3)
Is this for all races? (Score:1)
The different races seem to age in terms of appearances at different rates. Perhaps a lot due to sun exposure, etc.
Re: Is this for all races? (Score:3)
For different generic backgrounds it could be very different, but that would not depend just on a few superficial characteristics. Your neighbour is genetically potentially more different from you than a New Zealand Maori is.
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"Your neighbour is genetically potentially more different from you than a New Zealand Maori is."
Especially since in 2002 I moved 8,000 miles away from Aoteoroa.
Re: Is this for all races? (Score:2)
What does that even mean? That technically your neighbor could be a lizard person wearing an invisible poodle on its head?
Is "potentially" ever relevant in statistics?
I think I skipped one (Score:2)
I can't say I noticed any big changes around 44. I have noticed a lot more issues in the last year (and I'm 61). Perhaps I'm getting both at once. :(
Testosterone (Score:1)
Not to sound like a radio ad, but for me testosterone treatment has made a huge differernce. Was cutting back on exercise, becoming more sedentary -- now back on track. Nearly 70, swimming 2-3 miles X 5-6 times per week , hard pace, non-stop. And in my opinion that translates to increased mental actuity (prolonged O2 uptake ???)
fwiw, and purely ancedotal. but the sample size in this study isn't that much better.
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Am in my mid 40s now, and have more energy and strength than my mid 30s. Got diagnosed with T2 diabetes and changed my diet and started getting a lot more exercise. (Well, activity at least. I hate exercise, but I like hand tool woodworking, forestry stuff, working outside in general)
My father turns 70 this year, and same deal, he got more active, lost a bunch of weight, and hes got more oomph now than when he was 50.
With a study of n=108 I agree that anecdotes are pretty much equal value here.
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What I've seen (Score:2)
Also, for most of us, we run of out reasons to keep living: If one is not in a wheelchai
Re: What I've seen (Score:2)
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I'm 47 and it definitely feels like time to retire in a little village on the sea.
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Manopause (Score:4, Interesting)
Why assume that men have no similar cycle to menopause? I don't understand why there is no consideration as to men going through a similar physiological change as women? We are increasingly seeing that our bodies are more alike than originally observed,especially with the manipulation of hormones in gender reassignment, so why assume men don't have a similar process happening? Maybe its not nearly as sexually reproductive in nature, but that doesn't mean we don't have hormonal or other changes that happen.
It seems to me that science gets hung up on these labels and stops thinking that things could be much more generalized if they broke some of their existing assumptions.
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"Why assume that men have no similar cycle to menopause? I don't understand why there is no consideration as to men going through a similar physiological change as women?"
Because they are scientists and you aren't?
Men do have something similar, it's called andropause. It occurs later and is more gradual than menopause in women. They didn't make any false assumptions, you did.
What happened to the age 30 change? (Score:2)
https://www.medibank.com.au/li... [medibank.com.au]
But this study didn't detect that? Have we been lied to for decades? Or is the study bogus?
Age or lifestyle? (Score:2)
Are they talking about age or are they talking about lifestyle? You can easily imagine that if you treat a machine, say the body, the wrong way then sooner or later it's going to break. For example a B12 deficiency isn't going to show up right away but at some point the damage becomes obvious. Likewise, type 2 diabetes is basically something that gradually builds over time until you pass some threshold at which point the medical profession says, "Uh-uh, you have diabetes?" But it wasn't something you just c
35? (Score:2)
I wonder if they could pick up a similar tick in people's mid 30s. That's around the age when most professional athletes start looking at retirement. Only a select few athletes manage to make it into their 40s at the top of their game. Personally, I could pass for early 20s (and was regularly carded) right until around 35. Maybe it was having two young kids, but it looked and felt like I aged 10 years from 34-39.
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I wonder if they could pick up a similar tick in people's mid 30s.
Great question. I feel like there is something that happens around 30. I noticed a distinct change in metabolism right around the age of 30.
When I was younger, I was aware that the previous generation of youngsters had all agreed not to trust anyone over 30.
There is something that happens around the age of 30.
Exercise (Score:2)
Most humans in the modern world have sedentary jobs, don't move enough and don't train their muscles.
You will lose muscle mass every year, unless you counter it by doing regular strength training. Strength training is the single most important thing you have to do to age better and not fall apart.
I feel better and stronger now than in my 20's. I started doing regular strength training in my mid 30's. I don't have a gut, I have visible muscle definition and strength. People tend to think I'm much younger tha
Awesome! I finally found something I'm fast at! (Score:2)
I hit the milestones of 44 around 25 and the milestones of 60 at around 48!
FUCK YEAH! LIVE FAST! DIE YOUNG! Shit, already missed that window. Ah well.
It's lifestyle choices catching up with you (Score:2)
I have friends who have been health focused for decades and are now in their 50s who look and feel amazing.
Can totally see it (Score:2)
Actually, it's most dramatic at 3 (Score:2)
.... when their child hits 3
Just to be contrary (Score:5, Funny)
I'm over 50 and getting younger. It's amazing what not taking care of yourself until 50 then suddenly trying to get into decent shape will do.
I'm 76. Don't feel that old. (Score:2)
At 76 I'm still going strong. Ski, hike, bike ride daily. Eat a vegan diet. Gave up alcohol.
Life is good. Definitely worth it.
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52 is the age at which fat pedophiles die of complications related to morbid obesity.
Think football player.
Try [imgur.com] again [imgur.com]. Age [imgur.com] is not an issue [imgur.com].