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Space

An Asteroid Just Passed Within 180,000 Miles of Earth (ktla.com) 81

game of Asteroids An anonymous reader shared this report from The Hill: An asteroid the size of a football stadium threaded the needle between Earth and the moon Saturday morning — the second of two astronomical near misses in three days. Near miss, in this case, is a relative term: Saturday's asteroid, 2024 MK, came within 180,000 miles of Earth. On Thursday, meanwhile, asteroid 2011 UL21 flew within 4 million miles.

But the Saturday passage of 2024 MK — which scientists discovered only two weeks ago — coincides with a sobering reminder of threats from space. Sunday is Asteroid Day, the anniversary of the 1908 explosion of a rock from space above a Russian town — the sort of danger that, astronomers warn, is always lurking as the Earth hurtles through space... In 2013, for instance, an asteroid about 62 feet across that broke apart nearly 20 miles above Siberia released 30 times as much energy as the atomic bomb that hit Hiroshima. While most of the impact energy was absorbed by the atmosphere, the detonation triggered a shock wave that blew out windows and injured more than a thousand people.

The article points out that if Saturday's asteroid had hit earth, the impact would have "the equivalent impact energy in the hundreds of megaton approaching a gigaton," Peter Brown of Canada's Western University told the Canadian Broadcasting Service. (For comparison, most hydrogen bombs are in the 50-megaton range.) Brown said "It's the sort of thing that if it hit the east coast of the U.S., you would have catastrophic effects over most of the eastern seaboard. But it's not big enough to affect the whole world."

Meanwhile, the article adds that last Thursday's asteroid — "while it was comfortably far out in space" — was the size of Mt. Everest. "At 1.5 miles in diameter, that asteroid was about a quarter the size of the asteroid that struck the earth 65 million years ago, wiping out all dinosaurs that walked, as well as the majority of life on earth." But the risk of a collision like that "is very, very low." NASA has estimated that a civilization-ending event (like the collision of an asteroid the size of Thursday's with the Earth) should only happen every few million years. And such an impact from an asteroid half a mile in diameter or bigger will be almost impossible for a very long time, according to findings published last year in The Astronomical Journal.
NASA's catalog of large and dangerous objects like 2011 UL21 is now 95 percent complete, MIT Technology Review reported.
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An Asteroid Just Passed Within 180,000 Miles of Earth

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  • by Latent Heat ( 558884 ) on Sunday June 30, 2024 @10:51PM (#64591263)

    It seems that only one 50 MT H-bomb was ever tested, the Tsar Bomba.

    The highest yield test from the US was the 15 MT Castle Bravo shot, a yield that was triple the intended 5 MT on account of a misunderstanding of the efficacy of different isotopes of lithium in substituting for liquified deuterium in the impractical-as-a-weapon Ivy Mike shot.

    This unexpected high yield was not considered a bonus; it terrified the personnel conducting the shot and it radiation-poisoned the crew of a Japanese fishing boat.

    • This unexpected high yield was not considered a bonus; it terrified the personnel conducting the shot and it radiation-poisoned the crew of a Japanese fishing boat.

      Indeed. A common misperception by non-military people is that the military wants the biggest explosion/bang possible. This is incorrect. We want precisely the bang required to destroy the target.

      Now, in the interests of flexibility, acknowledgement that we can't necessarily put the explosion right on the target, etc... We generally have a number of "standard yield" devices, like 500 and 2000 pound bombs, so that we can just select the appropriate general size.

      As such, getting 15MT when we wanted 5MT is

      • The military, like every other government branch, maximizes the outlays that go to its bureaucrats.

        This means keeping funding at maximum and costs that do not in some way line the pockets of the bureaucrats at minimum.

        All other concerns are of relatively minor importance.

        Hence the "skyrocketing" costs of anything military, whether it works, or, most often, not.

        • by gtall ( 79522 )

          Really? Have you ever looked at the Federal Budget outlays? Hint: very little goes to bureaucrats. The vast majority goes to people in the forms of SS, Medicare, other social services, and military personal.

          It is stupid thinking more money means more lining of pockets of bureaucrats, they do not get any increase in take home pay just because their agency's budget went up. And if it did go up by more than inflation, it is because Congress wanted to spend the money on the function of that agency which usually

          • Actually, the majority of federal monies go into the pockets of the bankers, not the bureaucrats or politicians.

            We could balance our budget and spend within our means, but people would accuse us of copying Switzerland, and we can't have that. Living within one's means by careful budgeting is a right wing value these days.

            • by Anonymous Coward

              Living within one's means by careful budgeting is a right wing value these days.

              Really? So it has changed since 2017?

      • by gavron ( 1300111 )

        A standard misconception is that if you use enough measuring units you'll be perceived on the Internet as knowing someting.

        The Internet is not your judge, confessor, or mother.
        You know nothing.
        Explosives yield is only one of many factors indicating the appropriate use.

        Begone, fake.

    • Either way, a near gigaton asteroid impact would be a net gain on the world if it could be channeled correctly. Say Moscow, for example.

      • by Sique ( 173459 )
        So you want to destroy more than 1000 years of Art and History and about 1.5 million people because of a current problem with a single person? That's like taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
        • So you want to destroy more than 1000 years of Art and History and about 1.5 million people because of a current problem with a single person? That's like taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

          Considering how much art and history Russia is deliberately destroying in Ukraine, not to mention the civilians and infrastructure it is deliberately targeting, and all the art and history it has deliberately destroyed whenever it invades its neighbors, turn about is fair play.

      • I'm thinking Mar A Lago... when Trump's at home.

        • I'm thinking Mar A Lago... when Trump's at home.

          Wow...he really still lives in your head, doesn't he?

          I find this a bit amazing, seeing that he hasn't been president in involved in govt. at all for over 3 years....

        • by cusco ( 717999 )

          DC, when the presiditiot and veep are addressing a joint session of Congress (they'd probably debate whether to do anything about the incoming asteroid or not).

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by locater16 ( 2326718 ) on Monday July 01, 2024 @01:18AM (#64591421)
      For reference, Krakatoa, the last "mega" volcanic eruption on earth, is estimated at 200 megatons and ejected enough material high into the atmosphere to lower temperatures by 0.4c for a year. So yeah, several hundred megatons to a gigatonne is more than enough to "affect the whole world".
      • by e3m4n ( 947977 )
        Im not sure thats apples to apples. Volcanic ash lowers temperatures by lowering the planets albedo. I dont think its measured linearly based on the blast rating. Impact site could also be a large factor. Since the earth is 70% covered in water then an ocean strike significantly more likely. Depending on where, this will affect tsunami damage. For example striking in the northern pacific would do more commerce damage by wiping out all of the tech industry in the US since they all want to centrally locate. A
    • What boggles the mind is that absolutely no one has asked whether it was American football or the one where they actually use their feet

  • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Sunday June 30, 2024 @11:06PM (#64591271)
    Of an asteroid that might hit within 14 years. The simulation did not go well. The main issue was that it was basically impossible to secure funding to do anything about it in time because it wasn't 100% guaranteed in the simulation that the asteroid would hit. So it was easy for various factors like bickering and misinformation of the kind that keep us from doing anything about climate change to derail any efforts to launch rockets to do something about it.

    It's one of those things where even if we don't nuke ourselves we're still fighting an uphill battle. We need to be moving towards a more cooperative instead of competitive civilization but you're taught from the moment you can think how great competition is. So much so it's hard to even imagine cooperating.
    • by Pseudonymous Powers ( 4097097 ) on Sunday June 30, 2024 @11:47PM (#64591313)
      "There's no evidence that this nuclear winter is caused by humans not doing anything to keep that Delaware-sized asteroid from impacting the planet. And BY THE WAY, I'd just like to point out that your previous so-called 'global warming' turned out to be no big deal, either."
    • by e3m4n ( 947977 )
      Look up the AAA asteroids. Apollo, Armor asteroids. We have a lot of near misses with them. But dont worry. Your elected leaders have squandered billions constructing secret bunkers and silos to protect themselves should catastrophe strike. So glad they took the position to put the people above themselves.
    • The main issue was that it was basically impossible to secure funding to do anything about it in time because it wasn't 100% guaranteed in the simulation that the asteroid would hit.

      So precisely what was the probability from the simulation? I have never heard of any simulation that showed a significant chance of an impact. What I have heard of is initial simulations giving non-zero chances and then improved simulations being run that effectively rule out the chance: you'll never get absolutely zero just vanishingly small which paints a very different picture from the one you are trying to project.

      Scientists have a long history of strong international collaboration, we regularly wor

      • by cusco ( 717999 )

        My understanding of the poster was that it was a 'simulation' like a war game, not a projection of an actual asteroidal path. Different usages of a word like 'simulation' can cause confusion.

        If he were referring to your usage of 'simulation' I have no doubt but that you're correct about the worldwide community of scientists coming together. Unfortunately you don't get to decide how money is spent, that decision is left to the utterly useless political class for some reason, most of whom are controlled to

        • My understanding of the poster was that it was a 'simulation' like a war game

          That seems unlikely since, 14-years out, you have 14-years to get funding and surely they did not run the simulation over multiple years? Not to mention the fact the first thing you do in that situation is prioritize observations - which costs no money, just disruption of people's instrument time - to determine whether or not it will hit.

          • by cusco ( 717999 )

            Here's the study. Haven't read the entire thing, but it looks interesting.

            https://www.nasa.gov/news-rele... [nasa.gov].

            During the exercise, participants considered potential national and global responses to a hypothetical scenario in which a never-before-detected asteroid was identified that had, according to initial calculations, a 72% chance of hitting Earth in approximately 14 years. The preliminary observations described in the exercise, however, were not sufficient to precisely determine the asteroid’s siz

            • Ok, but that does not report on any bickering or the fact that there was no funding to do anything in time. Also, how can you lack any information on the long-term trajectory if you know there is a 72% chance of it hitting the Earth in 14 years? You'd have to know the trajectory for 14-years pretty precisely since the Earth is not a large target. In addition, without any information on the size for all you know it could burn up in the atmosphere. Frankly, in that position I'd be seriously questioning the re
              • by cusco ( 717999 )

                I think that was part of the point:

                “The uncertainties in these initial conditions for the exercise allowed participants to consider a particularly challenging set of circumstances,”

                • My point is that they are utterly unrealistic circumstances: you cannot have a 72% certainty of a collision in 14 years without very accurate knowledge of the long term trajectory. If you have studied the asteroid that much how the heck can you know so little about it? Plus, if you really have no knowledge of the size at all how can you expect the response to be anything other than "get back to us when you have a clue about whether it poses any danger at all"? There is still no evidence of any "bickering" p
    • Unfortunately this is a vague recollection of something without a single fact to anchor it or search on (within 14 years is awfully vague given no date for the claimed study) and without a link. And it comparing it to actual accounts of possible impactors that are detected it appears to be a serious misunderstanding.

      This appears to be most probably a garbled recollection of 99942 Apophis [wikipedia.org] for which observations of 12/2004 gave a 2.7% chance of colliding with Earth in 2029 (24 years in the future). All such a

    • by cusco ( 717999 )

      I'm not terribly confident in their claim that it's "impossible" for the Earth to be hit by an asteroid with very little warning. We've accidentally found several rocks just whipping through the Solar System on their way to somewhere else, and we aren't even looking for them. The first ones weren't even noticed until they had already passed through the ecliptic.

    • by cusco ( 717999 )

      I'd be interested if you could dig up a link.

  • "game of Asteroids An anonymous reader shared this report from The Hill:"

    In the Game of Asteroids, you're the asteroid or you die.

    • "game of Asteroids An anonymous reader shared this report from The Hill:"

      In the Game of Asteroids, you're the asteroid or you die.

      It doesn't really end well for most of the asteroids, either.

  • The actual problem (Score:5, Insightful)

    by chx496 ( 6973044 ) on Monday July 01, 2024 @12:40AM (#64591371)
    The actual problem wasn't that it passed that "close" to Earth - sure, it was somewhat close, but there have been objects that have passed closer, and objects that are estimated to pass closer in the future that we've already detected. What worries me is that we've only detected it 2 weeks ago, so we could have never done anything about it. This object is quite big for something we hadn't seen before. For comparison: the Chelyabinsk meteor 11 years ago was just 19 meters in diameter, not 1.5 miles (more than a factor of 100), and even with that one we were already lucky that it a) mostly exploded while still in the upper atmosphere and b) did that over an area where the average population density was quite low.
    • by e3m4n ( 947977 )
      With as much of the planet covered in water, I am surprised it did it over land in the first place. It really is roulette.
      • If it's big enough it doesn't matter whether it hits land or water.
        • In fact, hitting the water might be worse, the blast area on land is smaller than a mega tsunami. At least there'd be less dust though.

          • by e3m4n ( 947977 )
            i think thats the tradeoff. ocean strikes will make a hell of a tsunami, but the damage will depend on where it lands and the damage is short term, excluding the rebuilding. The dust from a land strike, will last several years and spread across the entire globe. This could do everything from a mini-ice-age to killing off 90% of plant life. I want to say a sea strike would be better for long term survival but there is a limit of course. The impact in the gulf of mexico is one example, if it was ocean when t
          • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • You are confusing the two. The one that is 1.5 miles across (2011 UL21) has been tracked for a while (since 2011 I assume from the name). The smaller one (2024 MK) is the one discovered 2 weeks ago is is 'just' the size of a football stadium.
    • by crunchygranola ( 1954152 ) on Monday July 01, 2024 @09:54AM (#64592169)

      The actual problem wasn't that it passed that "close" to Earth - sure, it was somewhat close, but there have been objects that have passed closer, and objects that are estimated to pass closer in the future that we've already detected. What worries me is that we've only detected it 2 weeks ago, so we could have never done anything about it. This object is quite big for something we hadn't seen before. For comparison: the Chelyabinsk meteor 11 years ago was just 19 meters in diameter, not 1.5 miles (more than a factor of 100), and even with that one we were already lucky that it a) mostly exploded while still in the upper atmosphere and b) did that over an area where the average population density was quite low.

      You are confusing two different asteroids, one that came close (180,000 miles) and one that did not come close at all (4 million miles). The second not-close one is 2011 UL21 which was discovered in 2011, 13 years ago. 95% of all asteroids in this size range are now identified, and we will get close to 100% over the next decade (especially after the Vera Rubin Observatory goes online early next year).

      The asteroid just discovered (because relatively small) is 2024 MK is in the 140 m class (200 megaton) of which 25,000 are estimated to exist as potential impactors, and only 40% currently catalogued. If this hit Earth it would be a catastrophic scale explosion. Two factors to bear in mind -- this is passing by at 45 times the radius of the Earth, for every asteroid that comes this close, or closer, only about 1 in 2000 is close enough to hit the Earth, and only 0.2% of the Earth's surface is urban area where the effect would be truly catastrophic. Almost everywhere else evacuation is practical to save all human life and could possibly be organized in two weeks.

  • An asteroid the size of a football stadium threaded the needle between Earth and the moon Saturday morning

    What is the mass and volume of this football stadium?

    Sunday is Asteroid Day, the anniversary of the 1908 explosion of a rock from space above a Russian town

    The 1908 Tunguska meteor event [wikipedia.org] did not occur above a Russian town.
    • by Viol8 ( 599362 )

      "What is the mass and volume of this football stadium?"

      That depends on whether its an american stadium full of beached whales guzzling on popcorn and pop or elsewhere in the world. If the former then add another few thousand tons of flammable blubber.

  • The only "new" thing is now we have the birds in orbit to show us the incoming bodies.

    There are no "more" nor any "less" such objects.

    Alll we have is MORE science data leading to MORE media hype.

    Whatevers DID hit the Earth, whatever WILL hit the Earth, none of that changes.

    Queue the mass hysteria, illiterate news stories, and SEND UP BRUCE WILLIS TO BLOW IT UP.
    Just don't do it on Boeing so he doesn't get stranded.

    • by gtall ( 79522 )

      So it makes no sense to warn about newly discovered dangers because they were always there?

      You: Doctor, this thing here has started hurting a lot.

      Doctor: Calm down, Son. That cancer has been there for awhile and you are only now noticing it. Just relax and ignore the hype.

  • No time and money to look at them asteroids flying by.

  • I'll bet that if something like that hit the Earth, provoking a decades long winter due to all particulate floating around, then we would be glad of all that CO2 in the atmosphere.

    • by Viol8 ( 599362 )

      Maybe, until the smog cleared and then temperatures shot up way beyond what they are now because of all the extra CO2 caused by the impact itself and decaying plant matter.

  • Or did we pass by them? Maybe they were just lounging around in their underwear and we blew past them like a banshee trying to catch up to the wild hunt.

  • From the best historical evidence, getting whacked by the Taurid Meteor Stream twice a year has done the most cataclysmic damage to Earth in recorded history and is the most likely thing to wipe us out by the billons.

    We ought to be out there gathering that material, mining it, and building a permanent space station with the material. Let's call it Taurid Station for ease of discussion.

    We have all the science we need and the engineering will follow demand. Start with thorough mapping. There's a natural tran

    • If the energy of the Climate Alarmists could be properly redirected to actual extinction risks

      AGW and pesticides are breaking down the food chain.
      https://entrepreneurship.de/en... [entrepreneurship.de]
      https://www.sciencedirect.com/... [sciencedirect.com]

      You think that's not an extinction risk? I take it that eating is not a priority for you?

      You deniers are so boringly dumb I can barely stand it.

      It's too bad because I agree with you about the development of space, but then I have to wonder who you rented those ideas from, because you obviously didn't get them honestly.

    • by jonadab ( 583620 )
      > We have all the science we need and the engineering will follow demand.

      What we don't have is the GDP or logistical capability to operate in a substantial way at that remove.

      > Start with thorough mapping.

      That, at least, is probably feasible. Well, depending on how rigorously you define "thorough", but yeah, we could map such things better than we have done to date, certainly.
  • "A miss is as good as a light-second."

  • Giving a distance is meaningless unless it is paired with some value for the capture distance, the distance that the earth's gravity will capture the object and set it plunging toward the earth.
  • Looking up is wokeism.
  • If an asteroid impact (or anything else, natural or man-caused) suddenly affected "just the eastern seaboard". that WOULD quite definitely affect "the whole world". How seriously depends of course on what the "effect" was. For example, killing most of the people around a particular couple of cities and blowing up their buildings would be "the end of the world" as we know it.

  • Hate to be a nitpicker, but how do they know the remaining unknown large and dangerous objects is only 5%? It's like saying that I know what I do not know.
  • Well, if they are detected early enough, you don't need much to deflect them. Think of a large sheet of mylar... solar wind and light pressure... attached weeks in advance. Micro-newtons are enough; slow it down and let the earth's orbital speed widen the gap. Of course, you need to put a few dedicated telescopes or SAT's up to catalog and calculate the orbits. Oh yeah, and all orbits change constantly when they interact with other orbits. So any static model you think of is not valid today. But we need eye

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