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Medicine

Neuralink's First Implant Partly Detached From Patient's Brain (theguardian.com) 107

Ancient Slashdot reader jd shares a report from The Guardian: Neuralink's first attempt at implanting its chip in a human being's skull hit an unexpected setback after the device began to detach from the patient's brain, the company revealed on Wednesday. The patient, Noland Arbaugh, underwent surgery in February to attach a Neuralink chip to his brain, but the device's functionality began to decrease within the month after his implant. Some of the device's threads, which connect the miniature computer to the brain, had begun to retract. Neuralink did not disclose why the device partly retracted from Arbaugh's brain, but stated in a blog post that its engineers had refined the implant and restored functionality.

The decreased capabilities did not appear to endanger Arbaugh, and he could still use the implant to play a game of chess on a computer using his thoughts, according to the Wall Street Journal, which first broke the news of the issue with the chip. The possibility of removing the implant was considered after the detachment came to light, the Journal reported. [...] Arbaugh praised the implant during a demonstration in March and said that it had "already changed his life," while also stating that it had not been perfect and they "have run into some issues."

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Neuralink's First Implant Partly Detached From Patient's Brain

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  • Media (Score:3, Insightful)

    by systemd-anonymousd ( 6652324 ) on Thursday May 09, 2024 @06:31PM (#64460997)

    The glee with which the media is reporting this partial failure in an experimental technology that has restored significant function to a paraplegic is very telling. This Guardian article is pretty neutral, but others are celebrating it, as they're still seething over Elon Musk daring to make Twitter/X a slightly more open platform where people can actually speak more freely.

    • Re:Media (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Rei ( 128717 ) on Thursday May 09, 2024 @06:35PM (#64461015) Homepage

      open platform where people can actually speak more freely.

      Try saying the word "cisgender" on Twitter.

      • by HiThere ( 15173 )

        Well, I do object to the word. Gender is a grammatical category, not a biological one. Consider that German rivers are masculine (der Fluss), and French rivers are (I believe) feminine.

    • Re:Media (Score:5, Informative)

      by Xenx ( 2211586 ) on Thursday May 09, 2024 @06:37PM (#64461023)

      still seething over Elon Musk daring to make Twitter/X a slightly more open platform where people can actually speak more freely.

      You might have a point, if that was actually true. It would be more accurate to say it's a platform where people Elon agrees with can speak more freely. That's his right, I just want to make sure we're being truthful about it. He is more than willing to ban people he doesn't like.

    • by ffkom ( 3519199 )
      The connection you assume certainly exists - most media these days cheer everything their political allies do and vice versa. But even in absence of any politically motivated reporting bias, Elon Musk still would be a prominent example of business people who have no shame to exaggerate features or maturity of upcoming products to the point of simply lying. Another example would be Elizabeth Holmes, who was cheered by the media beyond all reason, but also failed to deliver on her outlandish promises.
    • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

      by quonset ( 4839537 )

      daring to make Twitter/X a slightly more open platform where people can actually speak more freely.

      Yup, free to speak more freely [imgur.com].

    • Read up on what happened to the apes it's nightmare fuel https://www.pcrm.org/ethical-s... [pcrm.org] and I have no idea how this was ever approved for use on humans. Neural implants aren't even that new as people were doing it back in 1998. https://www.wired.com/2016/01/... [wired.com]

    • That's where the Glee comes from. That said as far as I can tell it hasn't done anything that they haven't been able to do for 20 years and without invasive surgery.

      What this looks like to me is more hype from Elon Musk. Sort of like he bought that episode of The Simpsons and paid extra to have Lisa Simpson claim he's the greatest inventor of our age when in fact he literally has never invented anything in his life...

      Doing stuff like that just rubs me the wrong way even without all his other problem
      • by HiThere ( 15173 )

        I think "glee" is a misattribution. For one thing, companies aren't people, and don't have emotions. Many of the publications look for ANYTHING that's the right degree of shocking or unbelievable...not because of glee, but simply to earn a few bucks. Where they differ is that amount of plausibility they require. (There are legal reasons why they want something to not be easily disprovable, but Fox went to court to defend their right to intentionally lie to viewers during a news program. And they won.)

    • Re:Media (Score:5, Informative)

      by Whateverthisis ( 7004192 ) on Thursday May 09, 2024 @08:27PM (#64461211)
      It's not about wanting Musk to fail. Musk apologists always think people are out to get him.

      First off, Musk didn't found Neuralink. 8 people spun it out of UCLA and other universities. he invested, and they claimed he was a founder because Musk must seem like the founder of all these companies; that's his brand even if it's not exactly true. He then pushed them to move at a pace that reportedly led them to do unethical things, like animal trials that didn't follow ethical guidelines. Push is fine for tech; not for human health. More importantly it takes away attention from the people who doing this the right way with good technology, which Neuralink doesn't have. The electrode problem they are having was well known during the academic days; every mouse died within a month. Monkeys died.

      There is no glee in this article, it's just a report. I'm sad for this guy they're giving hope to that I hope does not turn out to be a false hope, but I'm worried that it is because the Neuralink team cut corners. Everything about this company is skeevy.

      Follow Precision Neuroscience, who is a Neuralink founder who quit over Musk's antics and is approaching this with safety and ethics in mind, and doesn't involve electrodes inserted directly into the brain. Or Synchron which is developing a method on a catheter and using blood vessels to get the brain signal rather than invasive brain surgery.

      • >It's not about wanting Musk to fail. Musk apologists always think people are out to get him.

        Even this mostly neutral article mentions Elon Musk in the second sentence. All the others do similarly. You're just blind

        > There is no glee in this article, it's just a report.

        You apparently didn't read my comment

      • Re:Media (Score:5, Insightful)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Friday May 10, 2024 @04:27AM (#64461735) Homepage Journal

        There's also the fact that Musk posted on Twitter just the day before that the trial was 100 days in and going well, so either he was unaware of the problem or lying.

        Which brings us to the real problem. You can't trust what Musk says, so unless you are in a desperate situation like this poor guy who probably has a very poor quality of life, you would be crazy to have his tech implanted in your brain.

    • The glee with which the media is reporting this partial failure in an experimental technology that has restored significant function to a paraplegic is very telling. This Guardian article is pretty neutral, but others are celebrating it,

      The downside of being an obnoxious adolescent troll is that you make it really hard for people to cheer for anything but your failure.

      This is pretty basic psychology, people are actually willing to sacrifice to punish bad behaviour, and if you think about the tribal environment we all evolved in it's pretty obvious why.

      as they're still seething over Elon Musk daring to make Twitter/X a slightly more open platform where people can actually speak more freely.

      Lets ignore all of the examples of his hypocrisy. Your claim is that it's a more open platform where people can speak more freely.

      And yet, usage has fallen by a fifth [theguardian.com].

      Perhaps some is people d

      • >obnoxious
        >adolescent
        >troll
        >neonazis
        >alt-right harassers

        Counter-argument: you don't like the idea that people have the ability to speak more freely on a platform where previously only mainstream leftist opinions were tolerated.

        • >obnoxious
          >adolescent
          >troll
          >neonazis
          >alt-right harassers

          Yes. Do you disagree with any one of those labels in the context they were used? Because I'm pretty comfortable justifying all of them.

          Counter-argument: you don't like the idea that people have the ability to speak more freely on a platform where previously only mainstream leftist opinions were tolerated.

          Counter-counter-argument. The vast majority of people silenced on old-Twitter were folks engaged in harassment, or extremists like white supremacists and neo-Nazis.

          As for the harassment, well that actually does stop a lot of people from speaking freely [businessinsider.com], as somewhat evidenced by the fact that Twitter usage has declined.

          As for the extremists, I don't think you should be thrown

          • >Counter-counter-argument. The vast majority of people silenced on old-Twitter were folks engaged in harassment, or extremists like white supremacists and neo-Nazis.

            Something tells me that your definition of white supremacists and neo-Nazis is pretty much what the MSM would define it as: anyone they wish to silence, and they've found politically convenient tools with which to do it.

            • >Counter-counter-argument. The vast majority of people silenced on old-Twitter were folks engaged in harassment, or extremists like white supremacists and neo-Nazis.

              Something tells me that your definition of white supremacists and neo-Nazis is pretty much what the MSM would define it as: anyone they wish to silence, and they've found politically convenient tools with which to do it.

              Or holocaust denying, openly anti-Semitic Hitler sharing [nbcnews.com] infamous neo-Nazis [techcrunch.com].

              • Twitter openly has a policy that they'll allow speech that doesn't break the law. That's how the entire Internet was once, but you're probably too young to remember. (Or too old, and therefore forgetful?)

                They've also made it abundantly clear that just because speech is permitted, doesn't mean it's necessarily promoted.

                • Twitter openly has a policy that they'll allow speech that doesn't break the law. That's how the entire Internet was once, but you're probably too young to remember. (Or too old, and therefore forgetful?)

                  They've also made it abundantly clear that just because speech is permitted, doesn't mean it's necessarily promoted.

                  Interesting, I guess critical reporting must be illegal then [cnn.com].

                  • They were reporting the location and timing of flights he was taking, repeatedly, so they broke the rules, yes. That came after some deranged person used that information to attack him and got his son instead.

                    Funny, why didn't you volunteer that information? Is it because you trust a site like CNN to not lie by omission?

                    • They were reporting the location and timing of flights he was taking, repeatedly, so they broke the rules, yes.

                      a) Ok.... so you can ban speech that "doesn't break the law" as long as it breaks Twitters rules. So just like old Twitter except their rules were a lot more stable.
                      b) Read more carefully: None of the banned journalists appeared to have shared Musk’s precise real-time location. They were reporting about the ban, not reporting Musk's location. It sounds a lot like "don't piss off Elon" is a new rule.
                      c) Also banning links that promote other platforms [cnn.com]!!

                      That came after some deranged person used that information to attack him and got his son instead.

                      Funny, why didn't you volunteer that information? Is it because you trust a site like CNN to not lie by omission?

                      Because it sounds like the deranged person was Musk' [theguardian.com]

                    • a. Agreed, I was wrong that their rules were only illegal content gets deleted. It's actually:

                      Violent speech
                      Violent & Hateful Entities
                      Child Sexual Exploitation
                      Abuse/Harassment
                      Hateful Conduct
                      Perpetrators of Violent Attack
                      Suicide
                      Excessively Gory or adult content in live video or header images, including sexual violence/and or assault
                      Illegal goods/services
                      Doxxing
                      Non-consensual Nudity
                      Compromised accounts

                      b. Lying from CNN. By reporting what flights he was currently on it was clear where his precise location

                    • a. Agreed, I was wrong that their rules were only illegal content gets deleted. It's actually:

                      Violent speech
                      Violent & Hateful Entities
                      Hateful Conduct

                      b. Lying from CNN. By reporting what flights he was currently on it was clear where his precise location was: on the airplane

                      Sounds like neo-Nazis should be banned, still don't see why the reporters were banned for talking about the ElonJet account. Maybe they linked to something that showed the data sources as part of the reporting (I don't think all did) but a "free speech absolutist" should be very, very hesitant to ban reporters.

                      c. I see links on X all the time to Mastodon and BlueSky

                      Because the backlash was so massive [theverge.com]. I don't know if they still ban, I see the official Mastodon account hasn't posted in a year but I don't know if that's voluntary [twitter.com]

                      Because it sounds like the deranged person was Musk's security detail harassing an innocent person whom Musk subsequently tried to dox [theguardian.com].

                      Wrong, the deranged person jumped on his son's car, among other things. His security detail is also being investigated, but they took no action against the attacker.

                      Elon is far from a reliable narra

        • by narcc ( 412956 )

          So ... you're pro-neo-Nazi then? Figures.

          There's a reason a truly tolerant society can't tolerate the intolerant. Can you figure out why?

          the ability to speak more freely

          Oh, you poor deluded fool...

          • Yup, I'm completely pro neo Nazi. You figured it out, good job.

            But I am using your definition of neo Nazi, which is "anyone who dares disagree with me on any topic for any reason, and then I'll follow them around and insult them."

            • by narcc ( 412956 )

              Okay ... If you "my definition" you mean some nonsense you made up to thoughtlessly dismiss any criticism.

              Oh, you poor deluded fool...

        • Counter-argument: you don't like the idea that people have the ability to speak more freely on a platform

          Given that that's an outright lie: mu.

          "people" don't have the right to speak more freely. Musk has been incredibly liberal with his use of the banhammer. Only people who's views Musk approves of in some way (agrees with, thinks are funny when high, trolls someone who he dislikes) are free to speak. People who disagree aren't.

          It's his right to spend $50 billion running his personal platform with its own

          • Looks like you logged into the wrong account to reply. How would you know what the parent poster believes or not?

            • Unlike you, I don't have any sock puppets. I've got precisely one acconut that I've had since the early 2000s.

              You are claiming that on twitter people can "speak freely". This is simply not true.

    • A failing human brain implant isn't newsworthy, since when?

    • by jd ( 1658 )

      You can only speak more freely if you agree with Musk. Disagree with him and you're banned. That's narry a "freedom" worthy of the name.

    • It's honestly so weird how much of a bias so many people have regarding everything Elon Musk related. Obviously like any filthy rich businessman he has his issues but I certainly don't see a reason to single him out more than all the other filthy rich businessmen. He made a fortune out of clean energy, space travel, and now restoring functionality to the disabled. — I think there are certainly less world-improving ways to make a fortune.

      The Twitter case however was a clear case of the usual “Fre

    • As someone banned from twiter, all I have to say is, rofl, my god you have no clue what you're talking about. :)

    • Oh, when did Elon make Twitter/X more open? Sure, there are more nazis there now, but the site has a whole has declined and lost customers, while still having censorship.

      Must did NOT buy twitter for free speech purposes. He bought it for ego purposes, because his tweets weren't getting the traction he assumed they should be getting. After buying it, when his tweets still weren't as popular as he wanted, he demanded that the engineers fix the flaw that caused it.

  • Not sure I would like to be learning subject though, whether it is about brain implants or "robotaxis".
  • no one wants /twitter/x running inside there head 24/7, so the REAL intelligence did the only logical thing...disconnected.

    I know my life improved when I disconnected from social media.
  • Not surprising (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by quonset ( 4839537 )

    When you can't get accelerator pedals [theverge.com] to stay connected [youtube.com], why would you think threads would stay connected to your brain?

  • Neuralink's failures (Score:3, Informative)

    by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Thursday May 09, 2024 @07:22PM (#64461109)

    Want to see how the primate experiments fared? Fucked up is the best description. https://www.pcrm.org/ethical-s... [pcrm.org] I couldn't imagine subjecting animals to these procedures.

    • by Rei ( 128717 ) on Thursday May 09, 2024 @08:05PM (#64461181) Homepage

      You do realize that these tests are literally mandated by the FDA, right?

      You do realize that the USDA, after investigating Neuralink, found no animal welfare breaches [reuters.com] except for one 2019 incident, which was the result of the use of an FDA-approved surgical adhesive (bioglue) in a non-approved manner. Right?

      You do realize that the FDA reviewed the results of the studies that they themselves mandated, and were satisfied with the results? Do you have any clue how long and difficult it is to get approval for new invasive treatments from the FDA? Medical startups live and die based on whether they can manage to convince the FDA to give them the go-ahead. A typical medical startup's stock shoots through the roof when the FDA grants approval, because it's such a difficult and uncertain process to convince them.

      What do you actually know about primate research? Do you understand what a terminal procedure is? Do you understand the nature of how primates are shared between research labs, and they don't just miraculously become cured of whatever experiments were done on them last? Do you understand the fact that macaques in captivity frequently will attack and injure each other, and that these injuries don't just go away? Do you know what sort of histopathology is normal? Do you know literally anything about the topic at hand? Because I guarantee you, the USDA and FDA do.

  • Unexpected? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by slack_justyb ( 862874 ) on Thursday May 09, 2024 @10:19PM (#64461367)

    Neuralink's first attempt at implanting its chip in a human being's skull hit an unexpected setback

    This is literally the whole thing that keeps happening to all these kinds of devices. This was literally the expected outcome and Neuralink's difference was supposed to be mitigation factors for this.

    Neuralink did not disclose why the device partly retracted from Arbaugh's brain

    It's a thing called scar tissue. The brain does not like foreign objects inside it. Who knew?

    In response to this change, we modified the recording algorithm to be more sensitive to neural population signals, improved the techniques to translate these signals into cursor movements, and enhanced the user interface

    This was the thing that was supposed to set the Neuralink apart from others. Being able to use statistical analysis in real time to fine tune the signal that was coming from the brain. And input signals (while constantly changing because of the ever increasing tissue surrounding the "threads") were to be kept maximized by some unknown mitigation factor that made the "threads" so unique in this domain. Clearly there are no means for them to ensure that the signal input remains clear enough for the computer to do it's thing.

    All in all, this shows that Neuralink pretty much only has the really quick CPU and fancy formulas as their sole trick up their sleeve here. They've clearly made no inroads on the whole brain rejection of implants. How much continually refining the algorithm can go is indeed interesting, but eventually the brain will form granuloma around the implant and the probes will barely pick up anything after that point. There's no trick math that can calculate the signal from zero input. So this Neuralink is just basically all the others like it but with a fancy computer to help out. Got it.

  • by OrangeTide ( 124937 ) on Friday May 10, 2024 @12:33AM (#64461447) Homepage Journal

    So an experimental procedure didn't work the first time. I'm not sure what people expect. Anytime something new doesn't work do we give up?

    • by jd ( 1658 )

      This isn't the first time, though. Brain implants have been around a long time, and brain rejection of the foreign object has happened every single time without exception.

      This is much closer to a flerfer arguing that the Earth will be flat this time.

      • Were they even testing the rejection in this? I thought they were focused on testing the signal integrity?

  • He didn't meet his Elon Musk praise quota 3 days consecutively. You think the implant was programmed to just let that go? Next time it'll apply a few extra volts.

  • My god (Score:3, Insightful)

    by OngelooflijkHaribo ( 7706194 ) on Friday May 10, 2024 @04:55AM (#64461781)

    Wow, there are a bunch of extremely angry comments here on an article of some medical procedure having a setback. I wonder why this doesn't happen with most articles about medical research suffering setbacks. I think it might have something to do with the fact that for some reason a particular investor of the research facility at hand is being brought up. For whatever reason it otherwise never happens that investors of medical research organizations are brought up on Slashdot when discussing that something went wrong with some medical research.

    I will never understand why this person lives so rent free into so many people's heads.

  • We might just get lucky and the brain may reject self-assembling neural lace.

    Whether that Zuck document about requiring it to enter public school by 2039 is real or not it'll have to be updated to have school lunches contain mRNA antiinflammatories in them.

  • A chap named Igor brought me a brain to implant in my laboratory castle. He failed to tell me it came from some fellow named Abbynormal at Musk's company. As soon as I implanted the brain, the giant jumped off the table and stole a Tesla and ran away. Lesson learned, if it's Musk's, beware.

Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes. -- Henry David Thoreau

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