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Earth Science

Scientists Resort To Once-Unthinkable Solutions To Cool the Planet 205

Dumping chemicals in the ocean? Spraying saltwater into clouds? Injecting reflective particles into the sky? Scientists are resorting to once unthinkable techniques to cool the planet because global efforts to check greenhouse gas emissions are failing. From a report: These geoengineering approaches were once considered taboo by scientists and regulators who feared that tinkering with the environment could have unintended consequences, but now researchers are receiving taxpayer funds and private investments to get out of the lab and test these methods outdoors. The shift reflects growing concern that efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions aren't moving fast enough to prevent the destructive effects of heat waves, storms and floods made worse by climate change. Geoengineering isn't a substitute for reducing emissions, according to scientists and business leaders involved in the projects. Rather, it is a way to slow climate warming in the next few years while buying time to switch to a carbon-free economy in the longer term.

Three field experiments are under way in the U.S. and overseas. This month, researchers aboard a ship off the northeastern coast of Australia near the Whitsunday Islands are spraying a briny mixture through high-pressure nozzles into the air in an attempt to brighten low-altitude clouds that form over the ocean. Scientists hope bigger, brighter clouds will reflect sunlight away from the Earth, shade the ocean surface and cool the waters around the Great Barrier Reef, where warming ocean temperatures have contributed to massive coral die-offs. The research project, known as marine cloud brightening, is led by Southern Cross University as part of the $64.55 million, or 100 million Australian dollars, Reef Restoration and Adaptation Program. The program is funded by the partnership between the Australian government's Reef Trust and the Great Barrier Reef Foundation and includes conservation organizations and several academic institutions.
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Scientists Resort To Once-Unthinkable Solutions To Cool the Planet

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  • LIARS (Score:4, Insightful)

    by franzrogar ( 3986783 ) on Thursday February 15, 2024 @09:49AM (#64241654)

    Quote: "because global efforts to check greenhouse gas emissions are failing."

    That's false. There was NO "global efforts" AT ALL. Why? Because the "contamination quota" unused by a country were sold to other so they were only spending public money in free travels and expensive dinner at 5 stars hotels.

    • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

      "The shift reflects growing concern that efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions aren't moving fast enough to spend all the taxpayer funds and private investments that are available to prevent the destructive effects of heat waves, storms and floods made worse by climate change." /s

      Even if it isn't true, it feels true, and that's good enough these days.

    • Well technically the article is lying because all they are doing is thinking about whether these are viable options. So far, nobody (I hope!) has resorted to any of these options since at the moment we know far too little about any of them to actually make them part of any strategy.
  • by cayenne8 ( 626475 ) on Thursday February 15, 2024 @09:52AM (#64241660) Homepage Journal
    So...what could possibly go wrong here?
    • Re:Hmmmm....what...? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Ol Olsoc ( 1175323 ) on Thursday February 15, 2024 @11:51AM (#64242172)

      So...what could possibly go wrong here?

      Glad you asked!

      Acid rain. Various solutions will cause either Sulfuric or hydrochloric components into the rainfall creating health hazards killing riverine life and eventually sea life. It will create extinctions, and will have to be done globally until the present day levels of greenhouse gases decline to some level deemed correct. Remember, the greenhouse gas levels have always been changing. As soon as stopped, temperatures will rise again.

      Ironing the oceans to create algae blooms, presumably to sequester carbon and sink to the bottom of the oceans. Will create HAB's Harmful Algal Blooms. Ever see the aftermath of a red tide? The fishies - they ded. And that isn't too good for people either. I choke when around red tides. So we're going to do this to the oceans? Lots of death and extinctions.

      One of the fears of the rapid rise of CO2/Methane, and the energy retention is that some species will become extinct. So of course, the best move is to create more extinctions?

      Yes, we done went and screwed up, and yes, there will be some negative results. But we can and will make things much worse if we think we can add layers of chemical interventions on a global scale. CO2 is a critical element in the atmosphere. Without it the average temperature of the earth will be below the freezing point of water. We've screwed with it enough already, and we're betting the lives of almost everything on earth that there will be no unintended consequences of purposefully eliminating levels of it from the atmosphere.

      • by dbialac ( 320955 )
        Did you see that article last year on science.org that talked about how removing sulfur from the fuels used to run ships has caused an upward shift in temperatures? Oops. Sometimes air pollution can be our friend. We need to stay focused on CO2 and methane and worry about the rest of this stuff after temperatures have been stabilized. We're globally going through a phase where we're learning how to terraform the earth as far as its climate is concerned. Solving this near term problem may very well help with
        • by qeveren ( 318805 )
          Yeah, the problem with GW solutions involving reducing insolation at the surface is that... stuff needs that sunlight, like photosynthetic organisms, and the water cycle..
        • Did you see that article last year on science.org that talked about how removing sulfur from the fuels used to run ships has caused an upward shift in temperatures? Oops. Sometimes air pollution can be our friend.

          Yup, and that's where some people got the idea that we can cool the planet that way. The issue of sulfur aerosols is pretty nasty. Here in Pennsylvania, Power stations in Ohio with their nice tall smokestaks were injecting a lot of sulfur aerosols, and Pittsburgh, long after the steel mills were gone, had problems from the acid rain.

          We need to stay focused on CO2 and methane and worry about the rest of this stuff after temperatures have been stabilized. We're globally going through a phase where we're learning how to terraform the earth as far as its climate is concerned. Solving this near term problem may very well help with our continued existence and the lessons learned can be used on other rocky planets and moons to make them habitable.

          It is very unlikely we'll end our existence over AGW. Our problems are with that rapid rise. A lot of weather instability and will be for a while.

          But if it was a normal slo

      • I would suggest that anybody interested in solutions to global warming read Termination Shock be Neal Stephenson [wikipedia.org] I enjoyed the story, and Stephenson put his usual amount of research into the means to this end

        The burning of coal globally has shown the long term effect of acid rain, and frankly, they are not nearly as impactful as global warming

      • Acid rain. Various solutions will cause either Sulfuric or hydrochloric components into the rainfall creating health hazards killing riverine life and eventually sea life.

        How will putting (more) seawater into the air cause acid rain? Lots of seawater already sprays into the air, and far more evaporates into it. How will more seawater in the air create acid rain? Where with the sulfur or chlorine come from?

        Ironing the oceans to create algae blooms, presumably to sequester carbon and sink to the bottom of the oceans

        Yeah, that could be bad. If we take that route we should be careful to keep it dispersed enough not to create dense blooms. But the same amount of additional algal growth spread over a large region seems like it might be okay. This is a good topic for study, especially sin

        • Acid rain. Various solutions will cause either Sulfuric or hydrochloric components into the rainfall creating health hazards killing riverine life and eventually sea life.

          How will putting (more) seawater into the air cause acid rain? Lots of seawater already sprays into the air, and far more evaporates into it. How will more seawater in the air create acid rain? Where with the sulfur or chlorine come from?

          cite: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p... [nih.gov]

          Chlorine is part of that salt environment, and the aerosols become acidic pretty quickly. Yes, there is salt spray already. It is worth noting that if we are going to try to cool the entire world, we'll be making a lot more than naturally occurring saltwater aerosols - as in huge pumps spraying saltwater as high as we can get it.

          We're performing the exercise humans always do - looking for a "Theresaproblem! wegottafixit immediately!

          IOW, we spent heading on t

    • Let's just release these rabbits in Australia. It'll be good for food and hunting!

  • Let's pretend (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Mr. Dollar Ton ( 5495648 ) on Thursday February 15, 2024 @09:52AM (#64241664)

    that by ignoring the real cause of the disease and treating some of the symptoms with whatever we have on hand we'll not kill the patient, but cure it.

    shamanism at its finest.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by drinkypoo ( 153816 )

      that by ignoring the real cause of the disease and treating some of the symptoms with whatever we have on hand we'll not kill the patient, but cure it.
      shamanism at its finest.

      Uh, no. Shamanism attempts to address underlying causes, but believes the underlying causes are mystical. It's modern medicine for the plebes that simply treats symptoms. The wealthy can afford the diagnostic time and cost to find out what's actually wrong.

      • I don't know about you, but most modern medicine treatments I've received to date have been largely successful precisely because they treat the root problem. If that's not the case with you, maybe you should choose where you receive treatments more carefully.

        • If that's not the case with you, maybe you should choose where you receive treatments more carefully.

          I'd love to, but there's basically no medical care available outside of an ER where I live, I have to travel for hours to get any decent and timely care. And I'm on a HMO, they offered me a PPO plan but it is a lot more expensive unless you have massive bills. And it's also a lot more expensive for emergency care.

          • Really sorry to hear that. I wish there were a way I could help fixing that.

            • by wiggles ( 30088 ) on Thursday February 15, 2024 @11:33AM (#64242098)

              Technically you could send the guy a check....

              That would help.

    • by GuB-42 ( 2483988 )

      No one ignores the real cause of the disease here, and no one is suggesting a replacement to decarbonization.
      Problem is that the cure is a lengthy process. The idea is to make it less painful in the meantime.
      It is not shamanism, it is palliative care.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        The real cause of the disease is human overpopulation. There are simple and swift solutions, which are unwelcome in civilized discourse.

        • Re:Let's pretend (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Nrrqshrr ( 1879148 ) on Thursday February 15, 2024 @01:06PM (#64242450)

          It's not overpopulation. It's the "modern lifestyle" that's built entirely around constant consumption.
          Africa's emissions barely compare to China's, but you know whose emissions compare to China? North America, despite holding half of Africa's population. And you could argue that China's emissions are really just the result of manufacturing that the 1st world doesn't want to do at home.

          The Earth can handle more people just fine, as long as not everyone gets an Iphone to endlessly scroll twitter and facebook on.

          • Actually, compared to many activities sitting and scrolling on your phone isn't very carbon intensive, even accounting for its manufacture and delivery. We need to get used to the idea of just doing less, laziness may be our savior.

        • The real cause of the disease is human overpopulation. There are simple and swift solutions, which are unwelcome in civilized discourse.

          Well, well, a person openly calling for committing genocide as a solution to a problem with no evidence to support the bogus claims gets upvoted?
          It reminds me the slogan "from the river to the sea" and many others from the history, to which a mindless crowd shouts "yeee".

        • by GuB-42 ( 2483988 )

          If you are looking closely at how the world is evolving, we expect the world population to increase to about 10 billion in the next 50 years, then decline. And it doesn't involve genocide or any catastrophic event. Just people making less babies. Which, by the way, is a problem, because also means an aging population.

          The late exponential increase is due to the world going through a demographic transition. Europe and America have already completed it and their native population is shrinking, Asia has just co

    • by dargaud ( 518470 )
      Particularly since *even* if those methods work, it still leaves the *small* problem of ocean acidification [wikipedia.org]...
    • I know. It's not like in modern medicine we would use medication to bring a fever down or advice to lower body temperature, right?

      That would be ignoring the underlying condition and just mitigating the symptoms... clearly we can eliminate the viral infection faster if we stop worrying about keeping the host alive.

    • Ah, but this has upgraded Shamanism to Catholicism: now you can buy climate indulgences.

    • Not that I donâ(TM)t agree with you that addressing the root causes is what makes sense, but sometimes you need to keep the patient alive long enough to do that.
  • by Geoffrey.landis ( 926948 ) on Thursday February 15, 2024 @09:57AM (#64241684) Homepage

    The heating is due to the cumulative carbon dioxide, so if we keep emitting carbon dioxide, the amount of "geoengineering" correction we have to apply will keep increasing.

    The geoengineering solutions only last for a short period, and if we don't keep adding more, it stops working. The carbon dioxide lasts for hundreds of years.

    Not a good option.

    • It buys us time. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by skam240 ( 789197 ) on Thursday February 15, 2024 @10:18AM (#64241778)

      Methods like these could buy us time though. With the developing world still increasing their emissions we're still a million miles from net zero not to mention the fact that all the first world has done is go after the low hanging fruit so far. The hard parts of reaching net zero in the first world are still ahead of us.

    • I don't know. Geoengineering is what got us into this mess, why can't it get us out of it?

    • The heating is due to the cumulative carbon dioxide, so if we keep emitting carbon dioxide, the amount of "geoengineering" correction we have to apply will keep increasing.

      The geoengineering solutions only last for a short period, and if we don't keep adding more, it stops working. The carbon dioxide lasts for hundreds of years.

      Not a good option.

      You've got it backwards. The fact that the geoengineering solutions only last for a short period of time is what makes them potentially useful. If they were permanent, they would be way too risky. Spraying seawater into the air to make denser clouds for example, seems pretty harmless, while also being useful. But it might have some detrimental effects we can't predict, which is why it's good that if we stop spraying, the clouds will soon return to normal. That clouds don't stay permanently increased becau

  • If your room is too hot, you turn the AC on. Could shifting focus to cooling down the planet be a visble alternative solution to our problem without having to scale back emissions? Trying to do X, Y and Z to reduce the upward temperature trend is clearly not working, for numerous reasons. Perhaps it's the time to try a different approach and try to manage the symptoms rather than continue searching for a miracle cure, hoping that reluctant population would get on board with it?

  • What about (Score:5, Funny)

    by gosso920 ( 6330142 ) on Thursday February 15, 2024 @10:02AM (#64241710)
    Project Plowshare v2.0? We'll set off a few atomic bombs, to produce a "Nuclear Winter" that will cool down the planet. It's a win-win for everybody!
    • Project Plowshare v2.0? We'll set off a few atomic bombs, to produce a "Nuclear Winter" that will cool down the planet. It's a win-win for everybody!

      Or we could, you know, achieve the same effect by spraying some seawater into the air.

  • Global warming isnt going away any time soon and is only going to get worse for some time. The developing world is still ramping up their emissions and show no signs of slowing and as long as they are we'll never hit net zero.

    Given this exploring solutions now that might be useful for when things get bad is not a bad idea.

  • Junkie (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Fons_de_spons ( 1311177 ) on Thursday February 15, 2024 @10:14AM (#64241758)
    Like a junkie... doing desperate things to keep getting high.
  • I think geoengineering is going to happen (it's technically happening now - just look at the whole North Atlantic ship trails story from last year). The reason it's going to happen is because geoengineering is surprisingly inexpensive, and within the means of large organizations (not just nations states, but large corporations) who are directly affected by climate change and have a vested interest in steering it a certain direction. At first we're going to see a lot of rogue actions, and then some kind of
    • because geoengineering is surprisingly inexpensive,

      A fascinating point there, but with precious little evidence to support it. May we have some?

      • The amount it will cost to spray a bunch of crap into the atmosphere in quantities that many or even most people who have an educated opinion think will be effective is much less than the amount made by the ultra-wealthy by selling us fossil fuels, etc etc. All measurements of cheapness are relative, and you have to measure what you are doing by what is actually happening and who is actually making the rules, and that's what and who matters as long as we're too divided to go after 'em.

    • The reason it's going to happen is because geoengineering is surprisingly inexpensive.

      No.

      Advocates doing simplistic back-of-the-envelope WAG estimates claim it will be. None of these are really verified.

      It's not inexpensive because, while carbon dioxide is something where you put it in the atmosphere and it keeps on heating for hundreds of years, spraying stuff into the atmosphere is something where you do it now, and you have to do it again every single year... and more every year.

  • Scientists Resort to Once Unthinkable Solutions INSTEAD of Directly Addressing CO2 Emissions.

    Removing CO2 from the atmosphere is the only way to remove CO2 from the atmosphere.

    These batshit "solutions" don't address the major effects of CO2 in the atmosphere, which include global climate change as well as ocean acidification, weather events, ocean level rise, flooding and drought, etc.

    • ...and these schemes are B-A-T-S-H-I-T. For example, the experiment to add sodium hypochlorite to ocean water to enhance CO2 collection? Well, the industrial manufacture of sodium hypochlorite is by electrolysis of sea water, obviously requiring electricity input (producing CO2), and producing chlorine gas, which if emitted directly (or indirectly as when it's released from swimming pools), destroys the ozone layer, or used industrially, such as combining with hydrocarbons to produce, for example polyvinyl

    • Oceanic acidification is literally the only one of those things directly driven by atmospheric CO2. The rest are caused by the heating resulting from increasing it. If we take measures that reduce the heating then they address all of those other problems.

      Obviously you risk creating new problems, and still have the acidification problem to address.

    • by necro81 ( 917438 )

      Scientists Resort to Once Unthinkable Solutions INSTEAD of Directly Addressing CO2 Emissions.

      I objected to the headline because these aren't "once unthinkable" solutions. People have bandied them about for 20+ years already. Some have even been seriously thinking about them: coming up with pilot-scale study designs, even doing some experimentation.

    • The solutions would purportedly offset the warming effect of excess CO2 in the atmosphere, nothing wrong with that.

      Attempts to remove CO2 are under way, but most of them are expensive and inefficient. The most promising effort I've seen is spreading rock dust on farms.
      https://www.wired.com/story/ro... [wired.com]

      The easiest solution would be to clamp down on fossil fuel emissions and quickly move to renewables and electricity. Also under way but not happening fast enough.

    • by PPH ( 736903 )

      Removing CO2 from the atmosphere is the only way to remove CO2 from the atmosphere.

      Not putting it there in the first place would be an even better approach. But that isn't going to happen. Because the economic activities of the first world are too important to be curtailed. And the "climate equity" movement is too focused on transferring wealth to the third world as reparations for damage we shouldn't be causing in the first place. Sorry to say this, but paying the Maldives for rising sea levels isn't going to do anyone other than the Maldivians a bit of good. Figuring out how to make ste

  • by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Thursday February 15, 2024 @10:41AM (#64241862)

    None of this is unthinkable. All of them have been looked at and modelled by scientists for decades. Shit some people have long passed the experimentation stage and are actually doing (though on a completely tiny and irrelevant scale).

  • One of the best ways to sequester Carbon is to increase phytoplankton in the South seas (both atlantic and pacific). For reasons unknown (but suspected to be extra iron in the water carried by dust from the bigger nothern landmasses) the north seas are much more rich in Phytoplankton (and, evidently in zooplankton and other species). Meanwhile, the south seas are comparatively a barren dessert, except where currents meet and/or bring sediments from the bottom to the top water...

    There are two ways to go abou

  • by skaag ( 206358 ) on Thursday February 15, 2024 @10:48AM (#64241896) Homepage Journal

    I wish our situation stopped reminding me of the obok "Timescape" by Gregory Benford, published in 1980. "Timescape" is a science fiction novel that deals with the concept of tachyon particles being used for communication between the future and the past. In the novel, the world is facing ecological disaster, and scientists from the future attempt to send messages back in time to warn of the impending catastrophe, hoping to prevent it from happening. The environmental disaster involves widespread pollution and ecological collapse (the ocean suddenly becomes toxic).

    • by necro81 ( 917438 )
      A related read would be Neal Stephenson's "Terminal Shock" [wikipedia.org]. In the not-too-distant future, a rogue billionaire is using giant cannons to shoot sulfur aerosols into the upper atmosphere to reduce the impact of climate change. The key questions in the book, as in any geoengineering effort, are 1) who gets to decide what to do, 2) how to you balance the benefits against the harms, and 3) what happens if these measures to treat the symptoms of climate change are suddenly stopped (the "termination shock")?
  • chemtrails, baby. Even the CIA director recently made a speech about them. Geo-engineering. If he's even talking about it, it's been going on for years.

    • chemtrails, baby. Even the CIA director recently made a speech about them. Geo-engineering. If he's even talking about it, it's been going on for years.

      There have been numerous government efforts to figure out what might reasonably be called chemtrail technology, so it's certainly been going on for years, but the question [that chemtrail conspiracy theorists want to promote] is to what extent. The patents I've read have had to do with obscuring satellite vision. Not being heavily into that culture, though, I don't have links handy. And there are no useful estimates of the activity that I'm aware of, you have to wade through sloughs of worthless speculation

  • "Scientists Resort to Once-Unthinkable Solutions to Cool the Planet"

    Scientists aren't resorting to once unthinkable solutions. That's written as present tense. They haven't done this. They're currently (present tense) PROPOSING "once unthinkable solutions".

    We really should stop believing stupid headlines.

  • The climate is complex, and we have little understanding of its complexities. The models are, honestly, crap - they can't even predict the past. Look back to the predictions from 20 years ago, compare to what happened - the predictions were flat out wrong (generally running way too hot - yes, we still have arctic ice).

    So, based on this lack of understanding, some people want to implement large scale tampering? Seriously? Idiots...

  • by PJ6 ( 1151747 ) on Thursday February 15, 2024 @12:08PM (#64242254)
    to talk about power in economics. Our inability to address the root causes of global warming is a direct result of private wealth's war on democracy, free markets, and the rule of law.

    Is it honestly even more unthinkable to talk about that, than geoengineering?
    • I think you're inline with my thinking. (at least the same direction) :) We made megacorp by giving corporations, human like rights and with their power/money were able to get both direct and indirect subsidies. They raped our society, and with that money/power were able to lobby. The 2010 Supreme court decision that let them put huge money into campaigns was the death-nail for what was left of our democracy. The mega-rich control corps, and corps control the government. Hence, our current Plutocracy and n
  • That will cut down on the plebes by considerable amount.

  • We'll do anything to avoid having to disturb the profits of fossil fuel corporations.

  • Things like taxing large gas-guzzlers, improving transit and biking infrastructure to make it more convenient to use transit than to drive... those impact our LIFESTYLES, dagnabbit! That sounds COMMUNIST!

  • "Spraying reflective particles in the sky", and probably also cloud seeding, has been going on for at least a decade.. but anyone talking about it was considered a conspiracy theorist
  • If we cool Earth, one unexpected volcanic eruption can compound the cooling and overshoot in the other direction. See: Snowpiercer
  • Wouldn't it be cheaper & quicker to offer $5,000,000 bounties on serving oil executives & anyone who holds more than $1,000,000 worth of shares in fossil fuels companies? They could offer it via crypto or something.
  • by Dixie_Flatline ( 5077 ) <.vincent.jan.goh. .at. .gmail.com.> on Thursday February 15, 2024 @05:10PM (#64243140) Homepage

    * Tearing up the huge number of parking lots that we have in our cities
    * Plant more shade trees in more parts of cities
    * More trains, fewer cars
    * Leave some methane and tar sands in the ground

    Those are the only kinds of geoengineering I want to talk about. Let's modify the earth so that it's less covered in concrete and the concrete-reliant conveyances that we needlessly base our lives around.

  • I live in Italy, and it is well known, that the coldest days are when in the night before the sky had no clouds.
    Clouds not only reflect part of sunlight during the day, but also reflect thermal radiation from the soil day AND night!
    So seeding more clouds will actually lead to higher temperatures on earth. This is a fact that can already be observed.

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