Neuralink Implants Brain Chip In First Human 107
According to Neuralink founder Elon Musk, the first human received an implant from the brain-chip startup on Sunday and is recovering well. "Initial results show promising neuron spike detection," Musk added. Reuters reports: The U.S. Food and Drug Administration had given the company clearance last year to conduct its first trial to test its implant on humans. The startup's PRIME Study is a trial for its wireless brain-computer interface to evaluate the safety of the implant and surgical robot. The study will assess the functionality of the interface which enables people with quadriplegia, or paralysis of all four limbs, to control devices with their thoughts, according to the company's website.
Who here wants to be first? (Score:3)
Knowing the community here there have to be more than several that are anxious to try this out for themselves.
Re:Who here wants to be first? (Score:5, Interesting)
if it legit works - i'd love one - so many things i'd be able to code up and get done if it wasn't for my arthritis. a neural link would be truly game & life changing
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Once it's approved by regulators for the general public, I'll be first in line.
But I have no interest in being a guinea pig (though I can totally understand why someone who's quadraplegic, or worse, a lock-in patient, would).
Re: Who here wants to be first? (Score:2)
I am thinking of pending DNR (do not resuscitate) cases in hospitals, their families could have this option now, but they have to be aware that as always, there aren't guarantees, only false flags
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I have arthritis too and I'm not sure how this could help. Maybe it could dull the paint or make it less bothersome, but at the same time pain is an important signal that tells you when you are damaging your body.
I don't think it can help with movement. The issue, at least as I experience it, is that my joints don't move as expected. Muscle memory doesn't work because my joints don't react the same way every time. I have to move slowly and use my senses. I can't see how a brain implant could help with that.
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I wasn't expecting it to do anything with movement - it's a Neural interface with a computer - you potentially can remove the need to have actual physical Movement interaction with the computer.
my Arthritis interferes because i make a living communicating, writing, tones of typing - and my hobbies include turning wrenches. So my quality of life right now isn't great as i end up using up my hands working to pay the bills and then can't do my hobbies because i hurt.. Being able to just use my mind to intera
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I have arthritis too and I'm not sure how this could help.
You can type by thinking.
For some people with arthritis, typing is painful.
Disclaimer: I don't have arthritis. I do have CTS, but an ergonomic keyboard fixes the problem.
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You don't know how controlling a computer with thought instead of tactile devices such as keyboard, mouse, or touch input could help with arthritis pain?
I would think that would be obvious.
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I suppose so, but not exercising those joints can make the condition worse.
And I'm sceptical that Musk can actually deliver that. There are real scientists working on this, publishing papers in peer reviewed journals. All we have here is Musk's BS, no public demos even with the monkeys.
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I'm sorry, but what [jmir.org]?
And oh, I dunno, FDA approval to put a device in someone's brain? Do you have any clue how hard that is to get? Startups live and die by whether they can manage to convince the FDA or not. Quite commonly the answer is "not". And the Biden administration is in no mood to be doing any company even tangentially related to Musk any favours.
People on the internet insistin
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Google a bit around.
For those problems you need food, yes food. Which you probably do not like to eat. Gelantine. Chicken bones, chicken bone joints.
And you should do exercise in a swimming pool.
The damaged joints need exercise, because the blood is moved through them by compression of the cartilage only. But doing exercise under weight, damages them. So you have a lose lose scenario.
You can exercise in water - in a pool - without putting wear and tear on the cartilage.
There are also X-Ray therapies (yes, t
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I can't see how a brain implant could help with that.
Well, the idea is that you do not need to walk to the light switch.
But obviously there are other solutions for that.
A mind(brain) interface to an IDE would be kind of cool.
Osteoarthritis? (Score:2)
If it is osteoarthritis, try Aleve (naproxen 220 mg) once a day, with breakfast.
Works wonders ...
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As someone with several autoimmune issues and a sketchy family history - don't take this the wrong way, but I'd rather not take medical advice from internet strangers :)
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Although I have a bachelor's degree in pharmacy, and I try to keep up to date, I have not practiced in decades (switched to the then new computer thing).
Also, I use Aleve myself for osteoarthritis.
But yes, it is a good idea not to take any medical advice from someone you don't know.
Instead, talk to your family doctor about Aleve, and see what he says.
It is an over the counter medicine, and needs to be taken on a full stomach.
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Let me echo and amplify other comments:
You can take medical advice from internet randos (and we all know how dead-on-balls they are),
or you can take medical advice from the licensed person who spent 10 years being trained and has even more years of experience.
It's your choice, it's your body.
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See my reply [slashdot.org].
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Yeap - kidney failure being one of them!
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The technology isn't quite rioe, Musk takes way too many shortcuts, and all the animal test subjects died soon after. That... Concerns me.
Once the technology is ready, though, it'll change everything. There's every reason to think that it'll end a lot of harmful neurological conditions and allow you to control and make best use of those that have both good and bad.
It might also allow a human brain to link to and program whole brain simulators.
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The technology is not at all ready. There are no permanent brain implants at this time, because nobody knows how to do them. And "will change everything"? Hardly. That has never happened with any tech before and it will not happen now. This will remain a special-purpose device (if it ever materializes), because doing surgery on the brain is a high-risk, high-cost thing and there is no sane reason to believe this will change anytime soon.
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This is what annoys me to no end about online comments about this. On one hand, you have people like you writing the above.On the other hand, you have people angrily insisting that "brain implants have been around for a while, so this is a stupid waste of time and just for attention".
The entire point of Neuralink's design is to get around the issues that have hindered brain implants in
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I am just pointing out that the appearance of a product that is given in the reporting is a lie by misdirection. At this time, these "brain implants" are very temporary, highly experimental, very risky and cannot do much. Typical timelines for this to improve to an actual, general use and affordable product ask for > 50 years at this stage. The reporting makes it sound like it will be "next year" and that is just nonsense.
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and all the animal test subjects died soon after.
They specifically used animals that already had terminal diagnoses for their testing, so it's absolutely not a shock that they died afterward, as they would have died regardless of any testing, or even being the control.
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Why they died is unimportant. The fact is that they died, which means we lack data over time. Since we know that the brain builds up intolerance of such connections over time, data over time is precisely the data we need. We don't need to know that connections work in animals, that's been done. We need to know about the changes made to deal with intolerence and rejection, whether they work or whether they cause further problems.
Re:Who here wants to be first? (Score:5, Insightful)
More specifically:
Regulator says found no animal welfare breaches at Musk firm beyond 2019 incident [reuters.com].
The one incident cited, from 2019, involved use of BioGlue, a FDA-approved surgical adhesive, to seal drilled holes, but it hadn't been approved by the panel for the specific use case they used it for.
I think it's so bizarre that everyone is so desperate to see Neuralink fail that they insist that federal regulators must be morons who are willfully ignoring massive problems, but They(TM) know better! As if Biden administration officials are massive fans of Musk and are desperate to do his companies favours.
It's a team of experts. Musk spends barely over zero percent of his time there. They're working on a useful product. Federal regulators, both in terms of safety and animal welfare, have given them the go-ahead. There is no "there" there. I look forward to seeing the final results and the FDA response.
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There is a... gap... between "wilfully ignoring massive problems" and "not quite ripe" that you could fly an A380 and a Boeing 737 Max 9 side-by-side through and leave the legally-required spacing between them.
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I think it's so bizarre that everyone is so desperate to see Neuralink fail that they insist that federal regulators must be morons who are willfully ignoring massive problems, but They(TM) know better!
It's not that people want Neuralink to fail, it's that they don't trust Elon Musk. He's spent years wildly exaggerating the abilities (and pace of development) of his self-driving tech, driving range, robots, etc. Not to mention a lot of his erratic public behaviour.
His style involves a lot of very aggressively pushing limits, exaggerating progress, and a massive tolerance for risk. That combination has brought him some huge wins, but in a medical setting (with animal testing) there's also a serious potenti
Re:Who here wants to be first? (Score:5, Funny)
If anyone else did it, I might consider it.
But I don't want to be a muskbot.
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Yeah - what happens if/when a few thousand/million have implants and he activates the DoS code?
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Everyone signs up for a Facebook account and praises The Lord and Savior.
Re:Who here wants to be first? (Score:5, Informative)
It's not what Musk hyped it up to be. You won't be interfacing with an AI on your computer to do your work 10 times faster.
It may possibly help some people with injuries or disabilities regain some limited function.
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It may possibly help some people with injuries or disabilities regain some limited function.
Which would be ... awesome, and more than anybody here has ever done for humanity.
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Sure, I'm not saying it isn't useful. But it's also not the bullshit that Musk pedalled. Neither is his robot, or his self driving cars, or his tunnel, or the new Twitter.
Unless you have very little to lose and a lot to gain, don't sign up for this.
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MMmm, TWIX. George Costanza's favorite. The ONLY candy bar with the cookie crunch.
I've got my fork and knife ready!
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I prefer "Xitter" with the Chinese pronunciation of the syllable 'xi'.
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it's also not the bullshit that Musk pedalled [sic]
Of course not, have you never heard of "marketing"? Steve Jobs became remarkably rich peddling overpriced hardware with a crippled OS using it.
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Re:Who here wants to be first? (Score:4, Informative)
What matters in terms of capabilities is bandwidth - primarily, capabilities should increase somewhere between linearly and quadratically with the number of individual neurons able to be read.
The version in the human trials has 1024 electrodes, roughly equivalent to the highest-end Utah arrays (though more typical for Utah arrays in research is ~100), and so capabilities should be roughly equivalent to that of the highest-end Utah arrays (but without basically jamming a meat cleaver into your brain (Utah arrays do significant blood vessel damage and eventually get encapsulated) or requiring a giant gaping hole), and well better than most of the research out there on 100-electrode Utah arrays. This is less than the versions being used in experimental animals - even back in the early days they were using 3072. But it should be enough for e.g. moving and clicking a mouse, relatively comfortable typing at an acceptable speed, slow controlling of a robotic arm with limited dexterity, things of that nature.
Capability growth should, at least in the near to mid term, be quadratic. Because the number of neurons increases both with the number of threads, and with the number of electrodes per thread. There may also be some further improvements on another axis with denoising and better isolation of individual neurons. The next gen human model (not yet in human trials) has 16000 electrodes. This should be getting into the realm of e.g. very rapidly outputting text, high dexterity prosthetics control, pretty detailed sensory interactions, etc.
The ultimate question is how much can you scale. How many electrodes per thread? How good can the electrodes and their signal processing get? How many threads in the time of a reasonable surgical procedure? Can the support hardware keep up? Eventually at some point, each of these axes is going to have the brakes put on them. But it's very difficult to say when.
But one thing can be said pretty confidently: the more neurons you're reading and writing to, the more dramatic the capabilities will be.
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I think the main flaw in Musk's predictions for Nuralink is that he expects AI to magically improve it 100x. He constantly over-estimates what machine learning is capable of.
The other massive issue is do you want some Musk tech in your brain? Presumably you would at least want some serious guarantees, like full ownership and an open interface that lets you replace their software with whatever you like. How you would even begin to manage the privacy aspects, I have no idea.
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It's not a machine learning issue, it's a number of sensors issue, as described above.
"do you want some Musk tech in your brain" - as if Elon developed this personally? He hardly even seems to remember that Neuralink even exists, almost never talks about it. And furthermore, my Tesla has been far better of a car than any other one I've owned previously (a consistent viewpoint in owner satisfaction surveys and repurchase-rate studies), so...
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Wait until you have problems with the car. It's like a phone, disposable. Not so green until they fix...or more likely forced to fix that problem.
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A generic statement so meaningless as to be completely useless.
For example: if there's a problem with the brakes, why would I need Tesla to do anything? It's a standard Brembo disc brake setup, and all the parts can be bought online or through 3rd party distribution.
There are many other systems and parts that are basically "off the shelf" which can be repaired without Tesla knowing anything about it, just like literally every other car out there.
Yes, there is going to be Tesla-specific parts and procedures
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At 16,000 electrodes I think you exceed the limits of Bluetooth connectivity and will need to do something proprietary.
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They're not sending raw data; they're preprocessing it on-chip and outputting only spikes (AFAIK). But of course there will be limits hit at some point.
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Knowing the community here there have to be more than several that are anxious to try this out for themselves.
Nah, I've watched enough Star Trek to know how that ends.
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It's always pure FUD like the borg or the cybermen or terminator where OMG TECHNOLOGY BAD. TECH EVIL. TECH NEVER GOOD.
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Reading what happened to the apes is nightmare fuel. Everything from non stop vomiting to chewing off their own fingers.
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You mostly say that because you're not aware of the horrors that experimental animals go through daily. This is how they learn what to avoid before subjecting human to new products, whether they be eye shadow and sunscreen or brain implants. Also, many of those behaviors were preexisting, all of the monkeys used in testing had been used previously by other labs and were slated for destruction (some of the earliest were delivered dead in fact, for cadaver experiments).
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Given the shitshow that Twitter has become, given the Cybertruck debacle, nah.
Someday, sure, something like this would be awesome. Or rather, something like what it was hyped to be. I really don't trust Musk for this not to be a clusterf*ck or useless.
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Once they get an interface to the Cybertruck I'll get an implant and my conversion to Borg will have begun!
Re: Who here wants to be first? (Score:2)
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Speaking for myself I would prefer a bottle in front of me.
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This stuff will not be ready for decades. While the story glosses over this, humanity does nto know how to do permanent brain implants at this time. Hence this one will be temporary as well.
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So ... (Score:4, Informative)
Neuralink Implants Brain Chip In First Human
Not... Elon. :-)
Re:So ... (Score:5, Funny)
Elon got it earlier already, they are starting with humans only now. Keep up :)
Re:So ... (Score:5, Funny)
This is ripe for comedy-advert
INT DIMLY LIT EVIL SCIENTIST RECOVERY ROOM
ELON and OTHERS are gathered around the SUBJECT'S bed. The SUBJECT'S eye blink and open.
ELON: Try and move something!
CUT TO OUTSIDE SHOT. A UN-MANED TESLA STARTS RAMMING INTO OTHER CARS IN THE PARKING LOT.
Really hoping this works well (Score:4, Insightful)
I could imagine a very distant future where I might be willing to get one of these, for a better link to use computers.
In the meantime though, I think it's amazing how much this could possibly change the lives for the better, of people otherwise so paralyzed that basic communication is difficult for them. I really hope it works spectacularly well...
Humans can adopt to a lot of things, so I am pretty hopeful.
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I can't imagine any future, where I would be required to take updates from M$ direct to my brain.
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I want a future in which the BCI to my 'phone' is able to take over basic routines using my eyes and arms, and I can just watch movies or play games internally. I'm still 'at work' but also slacking off.
Isn't that the goal of humanity?
Over the next few days: (Score:5, Funny)
1. First case of computer-human virus infection
2. Windows crashes, leaving patient comatose until Patch Tuesday
3. Linux and Doom ports now available
4. Patient transmutes into walrus due to Wayland glitch
Neuralink Implants Brain Chip In First Human ... (Score:2, Funny)
Neuralink Implants Brain Chip In First Human ...
... Test Subject Now Continuously Repeats The Words: "All Hail God Emperor Musk Of Mars!!
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Actually he keeps repeating incessantly "pedo guy, pedo guy, pedo guy..."
Musk is living rent-free inside his head (Score:3)
I wonder if the full self-driving feature is implemented yet?
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I'd be more worried about a remote control and a remote kill switch.
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I wonder if the full self-driving feature is implemented yet?
If you mean the masturbation capability, it's subscription only. :-)
asking for a friend (Score:3)
How far back is the first human? (Score:2)
I thought they were hundreds of thousands of years ago. And how do you decide if it's human. And and and
THEY'VE INVENTED TIME TRAVEL... ;) ;)
I've Read Enough Science Fiction To Know... (Score:2)
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This is a bad idea. When The AI takes control of the World, it might calculate a human worker is more cost effective than a robot worker. Cheaper to build and cheaper to recycle.
I can't imagine that being the case. Robot workers would be indefinite. Train once, run forever, replace parts as necessary. Humans are messy, prone to disobedience, unpredictable, and despite the cheaper recycling (throw 'em in the ground, they become future fertilizer, use to grow food, feed new humans), but they come with a LOT of downsides. Once AI takes over, if that moment ever comes, we'll be expendable except for as a curiosity. "Look at our parents. Aren't they cute."
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Robots can be built to not have duty cycles, and thus can work 24 hours a day with the exception of maintenance intervals.
Humans have duty cycles - they can only work reliably about 1/3 of the day requiring you to have 3x as many humans as robots, and when humans break down they can't be fixed in a single-digit number of hours. Also, humans have very intricate, time-intensive, bespoke procedures for recharging; where robots can just be plugged into AC power.
Good movie (Score:3)
Reminds me of a good movie, Brainstorm with Christopher Walken. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0... [imdb.com]
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Reminds me of a good movie, Brainstorm with Christopher Walken. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0... [imdb.com]
I thought I was the only one that remembered that movie. I used to watch it when it would come on HBO every year or so for a month. Really entertaining, with more than a little thought-provoking undertones. I should really try to find it again.
Federal control of Neuralink implants (Score:3)
it's only a matter of time before we use Neuralink to prevent you from doing things. First it will prevent you from carrying out serial killings -- who would be opposed to that? then of course we can't allow pedos -- I mean, you'd only oppose that if you're a pedo, then assaults, then robbery, then fraud .. then voting for the wrong candidate.
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That last point has already been taken care of by converting the hundreds of 'free press' sources into six sources of 'corporate media'.
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I wonder if they will ever disclose when the patient dies.
This is very risky and from the sounds of it they didn't have great luck with the animal subjects that were tested.
The YouTube channel 'The Common Sense Skeptic' addressed the Neuralink technology in their videos and it didn't look good.
Certainly not ready for a human trial.
Seems legit (Score:1)
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Free speech absolutist MAGA who is all about freedom implements the first step toward mind control. I suggest all of his fans get this, stat.
Yeah, it takes a leftist to look at a device that'll allow the disabled to function, to communicate, and see a mind control device. Yes, we know that's how YOU'd use it, but fortunately, not all people are such horrible wastes of human being.
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Interesting, you right-wingers looked at something that prevents severe disease in a majority of people and called it toxic.
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Elon Musk is the type to use it as a mind control device. Lots of companies have these devices, some of which have already been installed in humans, but they never get adequate publicity or funding due to right-wingers. Reference: https://www.nature.com/article... [nature.com] https://www.freethink.com/hard... [freethink.com]
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Correction: 3rd human (Score:2)
They illegally did this outside the FDA years ago!
2015: Businessman with tiny hands and fat fingers kept making stupid tweets because the autocorrect wasn't able to handle the amount of errors. The chip damaged his brain and it showed but somehow resonated with 30% of Americans...
2020: Musk wasn't able to work during COVID lockdown so he became the 2nd test subject. His brain was also damaged and you can see the before/after difference.
3rd: This new test subject can move a robot arm but they won't show us y
Severance (Score:2)
Just saying.
What could go wrong with Elon controlling you? (Score:2)
(My) name is Qarlo Clobregnny, private, RM EN TN DO!
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Youre worried about a guy like Elon? Care to name another multi-billionaire you would actually trust more with that particular tech and freedom of thought, because he certainly appears far more grounded and sane than most. Not to mention rather open with project goals.
Synchron is the first (Score:2)
It'll all be great at first. (Score:1)
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They realised that it's really 6G or 7G that's the evil one. ie: the one they're not actually using yet and want to get before their ideological opponents by burning down the radio masts.
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Just tell them Teh Elitez keep all the 6G and 7G for themselves and messiah Elon will bring it to the masses.
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Everyone knows that 6G is a deep state ploy to keep the "Biden Crime Family" in power through election interference... somehow! Just like everyone knows that Taylor Swift is really a CIA operative who is using the international swing of her Eras Tour as a cover for assassinations of "conservatives" while preparing to infect the entire NFL and every football fan with the "woke mind virus" via a combination of trans-friendly Bud Light, COVID vaccines, and an embedded 6G signal in the Super Bowl telecast!
The
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Elon is a great for getting the right-wing on board with anything.
You must be posting from a parallel universe. The only thing the right-wing seems to applaud Musk for is his acquisition of Twitter and subsequent reinstating of the accounts of several alt-right folks who'd previously been banned. They still absolutely believe EVs are a liberal plot to take away their God-given right to roll coal, and none of them are lining up for brain chip implants (though on that point, I can't really find a fault in their reasoning - you know that saying about a broken clock).
As muc
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Grifters all the way down. If Elon started asking for political donations they would roll in. Think about that. People living in double wide trailers sending money to the world’s richest person.