Long-Dormant Viruses Are Now Waking Up After 50,000 Years as Planet Warms (yahoo.com) 171
This week Bloomberg explored so-called "zombie viruses" — that is, long-dormant microbes which they call "yet another risk that climate change poses to public health" as ground that's been frozen for "milleniums" suddenly starts thawing — for example, in the Arctic, which they write is warming "faster than any other area on earth."
With the planet already 1.2C warmer than pre-industrial times, scientists are predicting the Arctic could be ice-free in summers by 2030s. Concerns that the hotter climate will release trapped greenhouse gases like methane into the atmosphere as the region's permafrost melts have been well-documented, but dormant pathogens are a lesser explored danger. Last year, virologist Jean-Michel Claverie's team published research showing they'd extracted multiple ancient viruses from the Siberian permafrost, all of which remained infectious...
Ways in which this could present a threat are still emerging. A heat wave in Siberia in the summer of 2016 activated anthrax spores, leading to dozens of infections, killing a child and thousands of reindeer. In July this year, a separate team of scientists published findings showing that even multicellular organisms could survive permafrost conditions in an inactive metabolic state, called cryptobiosis. They successfully reanimated a 46,000-year-old roundworm from the Siberian permafrost, just by re-hydrating it...
Claverie first showed "live" viruses could be extracted from the Siberian permafrost and successfully revived in 2014. For safety reasons his research focused only on viruses capable of infecting amoebas, which are far enough removed from the human species to avoid any risk of inadvertent contamination. But he felt the scale of the public health threat the findings indicated had been under-appreciated or mistakenly considered a rarity. So, in 2019, his team proceeded to isolate 13 new viruses, including one frozen under a lake more than 48,500 years ago, from seven different ancient Siberian permafrost samples — evidence to their ubiquity. Publishing the findings in a 2022 study, he emphasized that a viral infection from an unknown, ancient pathogen in humans, animals or plants could have potentially "disastrous" effects.
"50,000 years back in time takes us to when Neanderthal disappeared from the region," he says. "If Neanderthals died of an unknown viral disease and this virus resurfaces, it could be a danger to us."
Ways in which this could present a threat are still emerging. A heat wave in Siberia in the summer of 2016 activated anthrax spores, leading to dozens of infections, killing a child and thousands of reindeer. In July this year, a separate team of scientists published findings showing that even multicellular organisms could survive permafrost conditions in an inactive metabolic state, called cryptobiosis. They successfully reanimated a 46,000-year-old roundworm from the Siberian permafrost, just by re-hydrating it...
Claverie first showed "live" viruses could be extracted from the Siberian permafrost and successfully revived in 2014. For safety reasons his research focused only on viruses capable of infecting amoebas, which are far enough removed from the human species to avoid any risk of inadvertent contamination. But he felt the scale of the public health threat the findings indicated had been under-appreciated or mistakenly considered a rarity. So, in 2019, his team proceeded to isolate 13 new viruses, including one frozen under a lake more than 48,500 years ago, from seven different ancient Siberian permafrost samples — evidence to their ubiquity. Publishing the findings in a 2022 study, he emphasized that a viral infection from an unknown, ancient pathogen in humans, animals or plants could have potentially "disastrous" effects.
"50,000 years back in time takes us to when Neanderthal disappeared from the region," he says. "If Neanderthals died of an unknown viral disease and this virus resurfaces, it could be a danger to us."
I Thought The Neanderthals Died In A Flood. (Score:5, Funny)
But OK. I need some new fears as the old ones are wearing thin.
Re:I Thought The Neanderthals Died In A Flood. (Score:5, Insightful)
But OK. I need some new fears as the old ones are wearing thin.
Considering these are ~50,000 year old viruses, we humans may not have been exposed to them or, if we did, only in isolated communities. Any resistance or immunity may not exist in the wider population. Should they make their way toward densely populated areas, who knows how things will go.
This isn't fearmongering. This is an objective assessment of what might happen since we don't know how current human bodies would react to an ancient virus.
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> Considering these are ~50,000 year old viruses, we humans may not have been exposed to them
Are you one of those people that think humans have only been here 6 thousand years?
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Maybe is one of those that think "we" are Homo Sapiens, not Homo Neanderthalensis
New Viruses Seem More Dangerous (Score:3)
Considering these are ~50,000 year old viruses, we humans may not have been exposed to them or, if we did, only in isolated communities.
True, but it is not at all clear to me why a 50,000-year-old virus that did not manage to spread widely back then would be a bigger risk to us now than a mutation of a modern virus. Afterall, our ancestors were exposed to it, survived, and developed immunity and while that immunity has probably waned considerably (depending on how different the virus is to its modern offspring) we at least know that without any modern medicine, it did not wipe us out. New mutations come with no such guarantee.
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Considering these are ~50,000 year old viruses, we humans may not have been exposed to them or, if we did, only in isolated communities.
True, but it is not at all clear to me why a 50,000-year-old virus that did not manage to spread widely back then would be a bigger risk to us now than a mutation of a modern virus. Afterall, our ancestors were exposed to it, survived, and developed immunity and while that immunity has probably waned considerably (depending on how different the virus is to its modern offspring) we at least know that without any modern medicine, it did not wipe us out. New mutations come with no such guarantee.
It's very unlikely that any virus, old or new, will "wipe us out". If our immune systems and genetic variation weren't pretty good at preventing complete destruction, we wouldn't be here.
However, that's not to say there couldn't be plenty of viruses out there, ancient and new, that could wipe out, say, 10% of us. Even at its worst, COVID only killed less than one percent of those it infected, and the majority of those deaths were among the unproductive elderly population, and look at what that did to us.
Re:I Thought The Neanderthals Died In A Flood. (Score:4, Informative)
Remember what happened to natives when spaniards first came to the new world?
Population exposed to new pathogens. Pretty much wiped out entire civilizations (thinking Casarabe) within 30 years. Without ever having been directly contacted by the Spanish.
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Should they make their way toward densely populated areas, who knows how things will go.
Like if someone goes and digs them up then reanimates them to wave around saying "look, scary"?
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Native Americans were isolated for 10-15 thousand years. It is estimated that 95 percent of the indigenous populations in the Americas were killed by infectious diseases during the years following European colonization.
So yeah. Virus that have been dormant for 50k years could cripple civilization as we know it. Or maybe they won't. The kicker is we can't really do much about it at this point. Its always been a threat and always will be as long as we're all on the same planet and have fast intercontinental t
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Stuff like this has happened. Pretty recently as well - in 2016 an anthrax attack killed herds of reindeer and humans in Siberia. There hadn't been an attack for nearly a century.
What happened was the permafrost melted and basically reactivated the anthrax that had lied dormant in the ice.
With the permafrost melting, who's to know what's going to happen as dead animals and other things get uncovered and defrost.
The danger is that the virus or spore or whatever fails to infect humans, but successfully infect
Re:I Thought The Neanderthals Died In A Flood. (Score:5, Insightful)
chances are with they were that contagious then they would not have been confined to there icy tombs,
That brings up an interesting thought. Have you ever wondered why social animals sneeze? I mean, sure, it's a method of clearing the nose, but it's also very good for spreading infection. Therefore, the immediate expectation is that sneezing would be selected against by evolution in any animals that live in family/clan groups in close quarters, including human beings. After all, if we spread contagious diseases, especially deadly ones, to our family group then our genes seem like they would be less likely to be passed on. My theory on this is that, in fact, it is an evolutionary advantage to spread deadly diseases to the family/clan as quickly as possible, therefore sneezing around them is not selected against. The reason it is an advantage has to do with the way that family/clan groups tend to work in both humans and other social animals. That is to say, they stay mostly together in a tight group, relatively isolated from other groups, but with individuals and groups branching off and moving around from time to time. In such an environment, if a deadly disease comes along, the best strategy is actually to kill the entire infected group quickly and the infection dies with them. Sure they don't have any further direct offspring, but their close relatives who have moved away to live in other isolated groups are spared the infection and carry on their genes that way.
If this theory is correct, then highly contagious diseases may well be confined to icy tombs, separated in physical distance and time from living humans to infect. The problem is, that old model of human civilization is obsolete. We now live in bustling towns and cities in vast civilizations strecthing across just about every continent and with the technical ability of any individual on Earth to pop up at just about any other location on Earth within about 24 hours with modern travel. Those small, isolated family/clan groups now intersect with somewhere in the neighborhood of eight billion other people. So, I would not be so sure about high lethality being self-limiting to a deadly pathogen any more. At least, not before killing a truly massive number of people.
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It's an interesting theory, but you can just swallow mucus into your stomach and, in fact, even if your nose is running like crazy and you are sneezing frequently, you will still swallow a lot more mucus than comes out of your nose. You might be able to excrete contaminated fecal matter, but you simply can not sneeze out an infection. If your mucus is infected, the pathogen is already deep in your body.
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chances are with they were that contagious then they would not have been confined to there icy tombs
Yeah, because Neanderthals flew around the world in private flying saucers instead of living in isolated groups. Viruses could spread across the globe in a matter of hours back then.
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1. Bear in mind that our ancestors my have survived them by 90% of them dying off and the remaining 10% repopulating. While the overall survival of the human race over time is certainly a goal for us, avoiding mass die offs is also an important goal.
2. If it affected any of our direct ancestors 50,000 years ago, we certainly have not changed enough in that time that it would be unlikely to affect us. Now, it is possible that it will be a primitive form of something that's still around and that our immune sy
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You think they're going to leave that expensive ocean-front property to the poor people before the waves actually reach the front door?
Not likely.
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So you're basing your response on the actions of those who understand the least?
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A 50,000 year old virus could be troublesome. It is likely not every genomic line of humans would have been exposed to such a virus.
Virus immunity isn't in the genes.
Re: I Thought The Neanderthals Died In A Flood. (Score:2)
Sometimes it is.
Re:I Thought The Neanderthals Died In A Flood. (Score:4, Interesting)
As a follow up, these viruses existed right around the time humans almost went extinct [businessinsider.com]. Guess what one of the ideas behind this near-extinction event is. A catastrophic spread of a disease.
Re:I Thought The Neanderthals Died In A Flood. (Score:5, Interesting)
Going all out, it took a year to develop a vaccine for COVID and another year before the world wasn't production-limited. Modern medicine isn't a miracle. Indeed, we were fortunate that a lot of the groundwork for targeting the spike protein had already been done (for example, normally you can't have it isolated off the nucleocapsid as it folds into its fusion state, and even if that weren't the case, you wouldn't want it to be capable of going into its fusion state, as you don't want to risk syncytia; research had already found that you could "splint" it permanently into a non-fused state with double proline substitution).
I'm honestly a lot MORE concerned after I saw what happened with COVID. Take an example: imagine if HIV had been a highly contageous airborne disease like COVID rather than a STD. How would we have reacted?
When you first contract HIV, most people get symptoms like a bad case of the flu (not all that dissimilar to COVID). Then it subsides, and people feel fine. Had it it been highly contageous and airborne, we would have seen massive waves of flu-like illness sweeping through the non-resistant population, killing some of the vulnerable. We would have responded like we did to COVID, while starting to research it.
What would research have found? First, nothing. It's quite hard to detect latent HIV infection, esp. shortly after a person has been infected. Even when discovered, it doesn't seem to be doing much of anything. People would have debated (like they still do to this day debate with COVID) whether long-term latent infection is a thing, or whether you're just looking at inactive remnants of the virus from the infection. Even when it became clear that it's a latent infection, would people have freaked out? We have all sorts of latent infections, from cold sores to chickenpox to Epstein-Barr, and we don't freak out about them so long as they don't seem to be doing anything. A very small percentage of the population might rapidly accelerate to AIDS, but it probably would have been seen as a rare side effect of infection in vulnerable individuals (like, say, MIS-C).
How would society have responded? Probably pretty much the same way as with COVID.
"I NEED A HAIRCUT!"
"STOP TAKING OUR FREEDOM!"
"IT'S JUST THE FLU!"
"STOP LIVING IN FEAR!"
"I HAVE AN IMMUNE SYSTEM!"
"OPEN UP!"
And politicians, sooner or later, some places earlier than others, would have bowed to pressure to open up. Remember that with COVID, places some started opening back up as early as late spring / early summer 2020, like a third of a year into the pandemic, half a year at worst, when almost nothing was known about it. And a bit over a year in, tons of places opened fully or near fully. Would it have been any different in an "airborne HIV" situation, as per the above?
And then what would have happened? Almost the entire planet would end up with HIV, and when people start coming down with AIDS en masse, progress toward treatment would be minimal at best. In short: it'd be a veritable apocalypse.
Seeing human behavior in this pandemic does NOT fill me with confidence about future pandemics. Which can be expected to occur more and more often as global transportation increases and people push into ever-more remote areas - let alone if we start unintentionally resurrecting past viral threats.
Re:I Thought The Neanderthals Died In A Flood. (Score:4, Insightful)
"Lasting immunity"
"I caught it and I'm fine."
Get it now and you can then just go live your life"
"This variant causes a milder flu than the others, you should try to catch this one."
Re:I Thought The Neanderthals Died In A Flood. (Score:4, Insightful)
"...imagine if HIV had been a highly contageous airborne disease like COVID rather than a STD. How would we have reacted?"
Depends on who it kills, just like it did for HIV and COVID. If it kills gays, Republicans will celebrate, if it kills Democrats, Republicans will actively interfere with treatment. EXACTLY like happened for COVID and HIV. How we react depends on who is in charge and who is harmed, like always.
Re:I Thought The Neanderthals Died In A Flood. (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, and that attitude made HIV the pandemic it is today. Hey, it just kills the fags, let it run its course!
Until we learned that, erh, nope, the virus doesn't give a shit whether you're fabulous or wear 50% polyester shirts. Oopsie! But by then it was too late to put the lid back on Pandora's box.
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No one political party called for the spread of HIV. Also HIV still infects mostly homosexual/bisexual males:
https://www.hiv.gov/hiv-basics... [hiv.gov]
HIV still spreads predominantly through sexual contact. IV drug use only accounts for 8% of new infections.
Re:I Thought The Neanderthals Died In A Flood. (Score:4, Insightful)
Ever noticed how the virus doesn't give a fuck whether you fuck men or women? It will spread with sexual contact, it doesn't ask for your sexual preferences.
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COVID didn't exclusively kill Democrats.
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Going all out, it took a year to develop a vaccine for COVID and another year before the world wasn't production-limited.
And the work didn't start from scratch either. People had been working on mRNA for the better part of 20 years, it didn't just come out of nowhere. There were also previous work on SARS vaccines from previous outbreaks of SARS and MERS that worked stopped on because quarantine procedures worked.
Something totally foreign, unrelated to current viruses could potentially wreak havoc. Or not, the point is you never bank on the best case scenario.
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Take an example: imagine if HIV had been a highly contageous airborne disease like COVID rather than a STD. How would we have reacted?
When you first contract HIV, most people get symptoms like a bad case of the flu (not all that dissimilar to COVID). Then it subsides, and people feel fine. Had it it been highly contageous and airborne, we would have seen massive waves of flu-like illness sweeping through the non-resistant population, killing some of the vulnerable. We would have responded like we did to COVID, while starting to research it.
I don't know what youve been told or read about HIV, but whatever it is, it is very very wrong.
Most people that get HIV and don't seek treatment die from AIDS. Ask Freddie Mercury how that worked out.
From wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innate_resistance_to_HIV), innate resistance to HIV is under 10% of the population. Or to put it another way, 90% of the population is vulnerable to HIV, which probably includes you.
HIV is managed today through massive drug regimes that people use for extende
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"Seeing human behavior in this pandemic does NOT fill me with confidence about future pandemics."
Yeah and it's not likely to change since the same public response happened in 1918 with the Spanish Flu. That only killed ~50 million worldwide.
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You act as if they asked you to kill your firstborn and paint the door with his blood. We're talking about staying indoors for a few friggin' weeks!
How weak-willed can a population be that they go apeshit over not being allowed outdoors for a couple weeks?
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But it wasn't "a few friggin' weeks".
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Weeks, months, who gives a fuck? We're still not talking killing your firstborn, we're talking staying at home.
I guess I should give these extraverts the same advice, just in reverse, that I always got when I was pushed out the door to "socialize": Hey, don't act like it's the end of the world if you have to not go outside, look, other people enjoy the indoors, too, why can't you?
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Because too many assholes didn't do as they were told and kept the infection circulating.
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thousands of virus's and diseases that exist today would have been catastrophic back then. Technology and modern medicene makes a vast difference.
It's perfectly possible that a deadly virus mutation could have wiped out a small village in a matter of days and then been frozen as a time capsule for modern air-travelers to spread across the globe.
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Doesn't follow. The survivors might simply have been isolated from the infection and never exposed.
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Here is how evolution and real science works; when humans went almost extinct, the strongest or more suited to survive under the circumstances prevailed and we all have their genes in our DNA nowadays so we should be fine, most of us at least.
Ok. Maybe you should actually lean how evolution and real science work before spouting off like this. Evolution does, indeed select for traits that helped individuals survive under particular circumstances, and those traits are passed on. You got that right. What you're missing is that just about everything in evolution is a tradeoff. There's almost always some sort of cost, whether it's just a mild metabolic cost or a biological disadvantage. For example, a propensity for sickle cell anemia goes hand in ha
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No worries (Score:2, Offtopic)
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That's no good. They have to choose to be stupid. Like they are now.
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Still no magneto powers and no reception.
I feel ripped off.
What would Michael Crichton have thought? (Score:4, Funny)
They successfully reanimated a 46,000-year-old roundworm from the Siberian permafrost, just by re-hydrating it...
This reads like a halfway between "patch it up with some frog DNA, job's a good one!" fiction and Alexander Fleming forgetting to cover the jars properly.
"Oh crap, I spilled my" + (BRANDED PRODUCT GO HERE) + "all over the ancient Siberian" + (MOVIE MONSTER TO BE DECIDED BY DISNEY MARKET RESEARCH) + "I better flush it down the toilet so the boss doesn't + "(CONSEQUENCES TO BE DECIDED BY TARGET AGE RATING).
Coming soon: SEWERSAURUS (working title, final title to be decided).
Almost writes itself.
Oh, right potentially defrosting infectious microbes.
Yeah. Uh. That's fucking bad.
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"Coming soon: SEWERSAURUS (working title, final title to be decided)."
Japanese title: "Nemato Desu Ka?"
1 Roundworms escape laboratory, as they do ...
2 Drinks some of the koolaid issuing from Fukushima
3
4 Tokyo!
The plot of The Last Ship. (Score:2)
TV version anyway.
Too bad the following seasons stayed with the military plots. Exploring the steps needed to restore some semblance of civilization would have been more interesting.
I dunno... (Score:2)
I dunno. I'm not even remotely close to being an expert in anything this relates to but it seems to me that if any of these virus' were super successful amongst mammals they'd still be in active circulation. If the only place they currently exist is under ice they cant have been all that effective in spreading.
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Depends on how the virus died off; A virus that kills everybody it infects tends to be self-limiting if travel isn't really available.
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Depends on how the virus died off; A virus that kills everybody it infects tends to be self-limiting if travel isn't really available.
Then all the fossilized bodies should be a clue.
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Seems like pretty low odds, a virus that is both severe enough to where we need to worry about it today while at the same time being not so successful that it makes it out of regional status at a time where medicine does not exist.
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Depends on how the virus died off; A virus that kills everybody it infects tends to be self-limiting if travel isn't really available.
Or, as seems to be the case, it lies dormant, frozen the in the ice/permafrost, etc... until reawakened on a far more populated, warming planet at a time when very fast travel far and wide is readily available...
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Depends on how long it takes to kill you, since this is all made up we cannot know. And who says it's a virus?
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Virus is not microbe (Score:2)
NT
The Thing (Score:2)
Opposite is true (Score:2)
If it's a pathogen for which we have had no similar exposure, our immune system .. especially our adaptive immune system .. will destroy it. Collectively, our B-cells carry target information for all possible molecular structure pieces that are not our own. We don't need to have seen a pathogen to destroy it. The pathogens that are most deadly to humans are the ones that have adapted to our or mammalian immune systems and THEN acquire a slight mutation by which they are similar enough to existing friendly n
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Re:Opposite is true (Score:5, Informative)
False. Rabies and plague have advanced mammalian immune evasion genes. Rabies can even RE-PROGRAM macrophages. See below references.
Reference for rabies reprogramming macrophages: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.go... [nih.gov]
Reference (for rabies generic immune evasion): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.go... [nih.gov]
Reference for plague evading the immune system: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p... [nih.gov]
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Ok, where should I start... I won't. I'll just ask where the hell you got that idea from?
50,000 years ago ... (Score:2)
... the planet was in the middle of its last ice age. The Arctic and Siberia were buried under ice. What exactly was available to host these viruses? Perhaps some extremophile bacteria tolerant of the cold. But not necessarily something mankind would have to worry about. Either now or in the past.
the old viruses (Score:2)
Any small creatures from 50,000 years ago would get immediately eaten by modern predators.
Siberian tigers would manage to take down a few humans and then their heads would be stuffed and mounted in museums.
Jurassic park is fun and all, but if the dino's came back, there would barely be enough time for them to get hunt
Babble (Score:3)
Based on what? "Trust me guys, I know. I just KNOW" or something more? The notion that how long ago an organism lived is a measure of it's ability or inability to impact modern ecology is just baseless speculation.
If you insist on treat organisms visible to the human eye as a suitable analogy for microbes (WHY???), then fine: Take a look at how effective a species like crocodile or alligator is at preying on animals today and then look up how little they've evolved in a long, long time. What even is a moder
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OK.. but then you're speculating too. If we succumbed to fear of the unknown, the human species would probably either still be in Africa or most likely extinct. Our best move seems to be to investigate and characterize these microbes.
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OK.. but then you're speculating too.
Saying I'm speculating too is facile because speculation with an assertion is not comparable to speculation without an assertion.
"This will..." is prophesy. "If..." is not.
If we succumbed to fear of the unknown, the human species would probably either still be in Africa or most likely extinct. Our best move seems to be to investigate and characterize these microbes.
Sure, OK. Broadly we agree.
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Which is, um, sort of exactly my point. Anything currently extinct that wakes up from a long ice nap is gonna be a b-lister compared to the world we live in.
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Anger and disdain aren't the same thing. If someone's doing something stupid? I hardly feel anger when I see someone playing "fuck around and find out", do you?
the very next thing you do is to point out how badass, lethal and tough-to-kill the current organisms are.
but the very next thing you do is to point out how badass, lethal and tough-to-kill the current organisms are.
Which "current" organisms? The house cat and New Zealand invasive rat that are specific to the modern period that don't support your argument? Or do you mean the ones that haven't changed since before the time of the microbes discussed in the tha
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What next? You going to tell us zombies aren't real, too? Bastard!
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We're more protected by the reality that these viruses have to find hosts, and there needs to be a successful chain of hosts and mutation to get to us.
Evolution does not conserve genes without selection pressures... So a gene that protected against a virus 50k years ago probably isn't still intact in human populations. But that frozen virus also hasn't been evolving to defeat the human immune system. In other words, it's an unknown risk, but not a huge one.
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Well... no. That's not how evolution works.
Evolution will preserve genes and traits that are useful and ensure propagation of the species. If that virus has been "gone" for 50,000 years, for that time span (and thus about 3000 generations), there would have been no benefit if that expression remained part of our genome. And something that is of no use will vanish.
Any trait that is not required and uses up resources will vanish over time. This is why you have birds that cannot fly, sea mammals that can't wal
Go with the odds (Score:3)
That settles it! (Score:2)
I’m ordering twice as much ivermectin this time.
Darwin's Radio (Score:2)
Hey wasn't this the plot to Darwin's Radio by Greg Bear?
Nuclear fission? (Score:2)
Is there any demand for more nuclear fission power plants to reduce CO2 emissions and the global warming that results from same CO2 emissions? No? Okay then, I'm tuning out since it appears people still believe nuclear power to be a greater threat to human civilization than global warming. I'll take global warming seriously once the politicians elected to represent us take global warming seriously. To me taking global warming seriously means demanding the one source of energy with the lowest rate of hum
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Well, it's that NIMBY problem, where should we put them? I mean, sure, they're way cleaner than most other conventional ways of generating power - until they're not.
Don't you mean warm back up? (Score:2)
Surely if they were thriving when it was warmer 50k years ago, doesn't that mean that the earth is currently cooler than it was 50k years ago? If so, fighting climate change is a colossal waste of time.
C'mon, new pandemic! (Score:2)
With a hint of luck that should kick that RTO to the curb for good.
In Valen's Name (Score:2)
Re:No "virus" has been isolated, ever, by anyone. (Score:4, Insightful)
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First, that experiment has been done many many times (like thousands of times dude) with various viruses--especially on non-humans. In fact EVERY TIME scientists want to test a treatment or vaccine (see reference/example below), they do that as a control with monkeys to see if the vaccine is safe and effective enough to try on humans. And yes, some monkeys are given only the virus to see if the vaccine makes a difference. It's called a control experiment. Second, you're confusing isolation with causative ag
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Explain smallpox
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If I may butt in here, I kinda know that kind of bullshit game. If you want details, knock yourself out [psiram.com].
I refuse to be held responsible for headaches, nausea, vomiting or other side effects of reading about that nonsense.
But the tl;dr version, pretty much every kind of disease is due to some conflict and emotional problems. In other words, it's all your fault if you get sick.
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Ah. German New Medicine, or what bullshit "alternative" do you adhere to?
C'mon, we at least want to know if you're some harmless idiot or a cryptofascist.
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https://www.rki.de/EN/Content/... [www.rki.de]
Pictures of various bacteria and viruses. Example: ebola
https://www.rki.de/EN/Content/... [www.rki.de]
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Topical? Yes. Prescient? Well, the Western world's been talking about it since Malthus, and we have documentation from ancient civilizations what happens when too many die. I vaguely remember estimates saying that a 30% loss of population is enough to seriously disrupt a civilization (or maybe it was an actual description from ancient sources). And if wide-spread, civilizations. The Green Revolution would go away, and then a substantial portion of humanity from famine. Not to mention warfare everywhere, bec
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The Avengers movies were prescient in that overpopulation is one cause of our predicament
Actually, the plot Thanos came up with was idiotic in the MCU. The comic book Thanos was literally in love with death and killed half the universe as an act of devotion sort of like buying a girl chocolates and flowers. Honestly, that made a lot more sense. The realistic outcome of killing off half the population of a planet, or the universe, would be a period of economic and social chaos, followed by rapid repopulation. Maybe in some specific situations it could actually head off greater problems in some s
Re: Damn you Thanos! (Score:2)
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You do know that mRNA vaccines are not some sort of change to your genome, yes?
Good friggin' $deity, what do people think this is?
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Some number of generations down the line will certainly show some genetic drift due to different environmental factors. Why should something that has been going on for millions if not billions of years suddenly cease to be a thing?
Why a vaccine that doesn't have any impact on our genes should be a factor in this may be something you'd want to point out.
What I can agree on is that dead people don't pass on their genes, so in that way, yes, being vaccinated may have an effect on genetic expression in the futu
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Humans are a disease. That's pretty much all to it.
Also, don't act as if the right isn't into depopulation efforts themselves. The difference between them and me is just that I don't want to limit it to a particular group of people, I am not prejudiced, I hate all people equally, independent of race, creed, sex or political orientation.
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Okay Agent Smith [youtube.com].
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Smith didn't want humans to go extinct. He needed the humans as a power source (yeah... let's not discuss that part of the movie, ok?).
This is where our positions differ considerably.
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Ok, genocide it is.
Let's be honest here, it's the fastest, easiest solution that will also be the most popular one: It's the only one that doesn't require people to change their lifestyle.
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Your request for a free pentest of your webpage has been granted. Results will be posted here for your convenience and our entertainment.
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This is like that supposed scientist who published a supposed picture of a black hole. You can't verify it because for whatever reason, they needed a crazy number of multi-terabyte hard drives to store a JPEG.
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Re: Beautiful!!! (Score:2)