Gas Stoves Pollute Homes With Benzene, Which Is Linked To Cancer 297
Researchers at Stanford University found that among the pollutants emitted from gas stoves is benzene, which is linked to cancer. "Levels of benzene can reach higher than those found in secondhand tobacco smoke and the benzene pollution can spread throughout a home," reports NPR. From the report: Stanford scientists measured benzene from gas stoves in 87 California and Colorado homes in 2022 for the paper published in the journal Environmental Science and Technology. They found both natural gas and propane stoves "emitted detectable and repeatable levels of benzene that in some homes raised indoor benzene concentrations above well-established health benchmarks." The risks of benzene have long been known. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says the chemical is linked to leukemia and other blood cell cancers.
"Benzene forms in flames and other high-temperature environments, such as the flares found in oil fields and refineries. We now know that benzene also forms in the flames of gas stoves in our homes," said Rob Jackson in a statement. He's the study's senior author and a Stanford professor of earth sciences. With one burner on high or the oven at 350 degrees, the researchers found benzene levels in a house can be worse than average levels for second-hand tobacco smoke. And they found the toxin doesn't just stay in the kitchen, it can migrate to other places, such as bedrooms. "Good ventilation helps reduce pollutant concentrations, but we found that exhaust fans were often ineffective at eliminating benzene exposure," Jackson said. He says this is the first paper to analyze benzene emissions when a stove or oven is in use.
Researchers also tested whether cooking food - pan-frying salmon or bacon - emits benzene but found all the pollution came from the gas and not the food. That's important because the gas industry often deflects concern about pollution from its fuel, to breathing problems that can be triggered by cooking fumes. There are no studies out there that say cooking with gas will make someone sick. This is all about increasing risks for certain illnesses.
"Benzene forms in flames and other high-temperature environments, such as the flares found in oil fields and refineries. We now know that benzene also forms in the flames of gas stoves in our homes," said Rob Jackson in a statement. He's the study's senior author and a Stanford professor of earth sciences. With one burner on high or the oven at 350 degrees, the researchers found benzene levels in a house can be worse than average levels for second-hand tobacco smoke. And they found the toxin doesn't just stay in the kitchen, it can migrate to other places, such as bedrooms. "Good ventilation helps reduce pollutant concentrations, but we found that exhaust fans were often ineffective at eliminating benzene exposure," Jackson said. He says this is the first paper to analyze benzene emissions when a stove or oven is in use.
Researchers also tested whether cooking food - pan-frying salmon or bacon - emits benzene but found all the pollution came from the gas and not the food. That's important because the gas industry often deflects concern about pollution from its fuel, to breathing problems that can be triggered by cooking fumes. There are no studies out there that say cooking with gas will make someone sick. This is all about increasing risks for certain illnesses.
Getting the popcorn ready (Score:4, Interesting)
Yum, benzene and leukemia. It'll be fun to see how some people try to spin this ...
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It'll probably involve the terms "nanny state", "freedom", and if they're looking for bonus points they'll work in some reference to gay or trans individuals.
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Or Hunter Biden's laptop.
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Or Hunter Biden's laptop.
... and how the whole thing is funded by George Soros and Killary Klinton. Now excuse me, I'm off to deep-fake that "From my cold, dead hands" video of Charlton Heston [youtu.be] to replace the iconic and patriotic Kentucky rifle with it's successor, the iconic and patriotic a portable gas stove.
Re: Getting the popcorn ready (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: Getting the popcorn ready (Score:5, Interesting)
What you attribute to malice is just the normal way that studies work. They wanted to see if there was any issue, so they took a scenario where it should be easier to detect as a starting point.
Since they found something, it's worth getting more expensive equipment and doing a more detailed study of how it affects larger spaces and shorter use times.
Most likely it's just a question of how much worse it is than the baseline, not that a typical domestic kitchen provides complete protection from the effects.
Re: Getting the popcorn ready (Score:5, Insightful)
Except that it *has* been studied and in great depth. Research for my masters thesis (rural electrification) explored this in detail and while there are some emissions (you're burning something, so you're going to get them), the effect on health outcomes in modern homes is negligible.
Might be my cynicism showing, but this appears to be a shoddy study designed solely to generate the clickbait headline, spread fear to bolster a policy initiative, and otherwise serve as disinformation.
Re: Getting the popcorn ready (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
"Linked to cancer" sounds really scary but means nothing unless some numbers are given. The artificial sweetener Saccarine was taken off the market in the 1970s because it was linked to cancer in mice-when mice were injected daily with 1000x the normal amount that we humans would eat in a year. These studies were "coincidentally" funded by the sugar industry.
I'm sure if you would follow the money, it would be revealed that this study and all of the other the recent "gas stoves are bad" articles are funded
Re: Getting the popcorn ready (Score:2)
Turn on the vent (Score:2)
Stove tops have hoods for a reason. Multiple reasons actually.
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Stove tops have hoods for a reason. Multiple reasons actually.
Ya, but many, like mine (over an electric stove), don't vent outside. It just provides a light, fan and carbon filter.
Re: Turn on the vent (Score:2)
The purpose of the hood *is* ventilation. If the fan isn't funneling it outside, then it's not a hood.
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The purpose of the hood *is* ventilation. If the fan isn't funneling it outside, then it's not a hood.
Some of them force the air through a filter with e.g. activated carbon rather than funneling it outside,. This will remove grease and smell from the air. It's not as good as real ventilation, but it's used in e.g. some apartments etc where there's no good way of getting the air from cooking out.
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No. The purpose is filtration of food fats and smells from the air. Nowadays the hood doesn't exhaust anything, and all hoods, even those bought to exhaust air will quote two airflow numbers, the second being for filtered recirculation.
In any modern designed house there's a separate ventilation system for that, quite often the hood exhausts right next to the ventilation system and the ventilation system is designed to come on when you use the hood. But that's about it. If you want to get really technical it
Re: Turn on the vent (Score:3)
That's interesting, because my house was built in 2019, and the hood has a duct that goes straight to the roof. It's a whirlpool brand, closely resembling this one:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Wh... [homedepot.com]
It sounds like what you're referring to is a ductless hood, which technically isn't a hood, and they're also crap. But you probably won't listen to me anyways, so I'll just reference this:
https://www.consumerreports.or... [consumerreports.org]
This type of installation draws steam, heat, and smoke from the cooktop, filters it, and returns it to the room. Its filters trap oil and grease droplets dispersed into the air above the range, and some models include an optional carbon filter to reduce odors. We do not recommend ductless hoods, because they do not actually exhaust contaminants outside.
Re: Turn on the vent (Score:2)
Oh and...
exhaust to the outside but integrates into said ventilation system can dramatically reduce the size of the heat pump you need to heat a house.
Typically I need to get rid of heat, not keep it, save for maybe three months of the year. At least, for that house anyways. The house I'm in right now is in an area where climate control generally isn't needed all that much.
I spoke to a coworker recently in Redmond who had to learn how to use snow chains, and do some stuff or other with antifreeze in their pipes. All of that is entirely foreign to me.
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Not all vents are equal and this doesn't solve the problem for a variety of reasons:
1. Old houses have hoods which a rubbish.
2. Old houses where people have tried to reduce costs have hoods which fail to fight the pressure of closed windows during winter.
3. New hoods don't exhaust outside (waste of energy removing warm air from the house), they recirculate with carbon filtration, and that won't remove benzene.
4. Hoods are above the food. You're still standing between the flame and the hood while cooking (yo
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" You're still standing between the flame and the hood while cooking"
Don't forget to post video of that...
So do chefs get leukemia? (Score:5, Insightful)
They found both natural gas and propane stoves "emitted detectable and repeatable levels of benzene that in some homes raised indoor benzene concentrations above well-established health benchmarks." The risks of benzene have long been known. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says the chemical is linked to leukemia and other blood cell cancers.
So, we should be seeing more leukemia among chefs and kitchen staffs, who basically stay whole day in places where gas stoves are running. Where's the data confirming this?
Great question (Score:2)
The reality, of course, is that all safety measures come at a cost, and it is crucial to consider this when deciding what to implement. The extreme case of this is car use; if we banned all cars from going more than 10mph, the number of deaths on the roads would plummet. For some reason this isn't widely suggested.
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he reality, of course, is that all safety measures come at a cost, and it is crucial to consider this when deciding what to implement.
Yes, the terrible costs of... using a clean, safe and efficient induction cooktops.
Exactly the same as making road transportation basically impossible.
Gas is not quite always cheaper than electricity (Score:3)
So there will be a recurrent cost of using electricity instead of gas.
Actually, the losses between the flame and the pan are so great, and the losses between the line and the pan using an induction system so small, that induction cooktops can actually beat gas on utility cost (absent government policy-meddling on gas and electric rates).
Of course in states like California both have a draconian "progressive" (soak the middle-class) utility rate structure like federal income tax. With added electric consumpt
Re:So do chefs get leukemia? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:So do chefs get leukemia? (Score:4, Interesting)
They need proper ventilation just to remove the heat from cooking, regardless from where it comes. Looking at chefs for leukemia is a red herring.
Re:So do chefs get leukemia? (Score:4, Funny)
Herring has high levels of Omega 3 fatty acids and is actually protective against many forms of cancer.
Orange juice contains benzene (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Orange juice contains benzene (Score:5, Interesting)
Sodium benzoate (a preservative) and Vitamin C contribute to making orange juice. And the alternative is frozen orange juice concentrate. Unfortunately the FDA doesn't regulate s.b., and some orange juice contains 800% of what is considered safe.
So yes, we should not drink the kind of orange juice that contains s.b., as well as soft drinks that contain it and Vitamin C.
NiH has warnings about arsenic in apples, especially for infants.
You seem to be advocating the U.S. Government get out of the business of protecting Americans' health and leaving it up to those nice corporations that can put a price on the number of lawsuits they can sustain while shipping dangerous products.
This following Biden's wish to eliminate home gas? (Score:3, Interesting)
Sounds awfully convenient.
The idea that using gas to generate electricity that's used to generate heat being more efficient is completely bogus since we can't ignore the inefficiencies of producing the electricity (and transmission) in the first place.
There is no process that's more than 50% (more like ~30%) efficient to produce electricity. So using electricity can't ignore that its very inefficient to produce it in the first place.
Re:This following Biden's wish to eliminate home g (Score:4, Interesting)
Also a gas stove is not nearly 100% efficient. A lot of the heat goes around the thing on top. An induction stove is closer to 100% than a gas one. This dude made some experiments and measured how long it takes to heat water by different means and how that affects the air quality https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
But maybe the biggest plus of electric stoves is that electricity can come from a variety of sources (some of which are clean), while gas only comes from one place and the exhaust only goes in the atmosphere.
gas turbines's max isn't typical (Score:2)
That 60% efficiency is a max based on full load. It drops dramatically , under partial load.
(https://www.wartsila.com/energy/learn-more/technical-comparisons/combustion-engine-vs-gas-turbine-part-load-efficiency-and-flexibility)
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There was a time when I did have a gas stove, after having grown up with electric stoves due to no natural gas service available. I was surprised that the gas stove did not heat the larger pots any faster. The boundary layer alllows heat through to the pan less effectively than direct conduction from an old fashioned exposed burner.
On the other hand the current stove tops are rubbish. Yes they are smooth and shiny any to clean, but they take forever to heat up and to cool down again.
I haven't tried an induc
Re:This following Biden's wish to eliminate home g (Score:5, Informative)
Gas heat efficiency dependent on use. (Score:2)
If you use a small burner turned on low so that the flame doesn't wrap around the kettle, it heats water much faster than a standard electric surface. Induction is great if you are buying a new home where you can include a new stove and new cookwear in the cost of the home, but not everyone can afford to replace all their cookwear at once.
Also, induction heat doesn't work so well for things prepared in an oven like turkey or cake.
Way Worse (Score:3)
"Linked to cancer" means nothing any more (Score:4, Interesting)
When they can state "Having a gas stove increases your chance of getting leukemia by 40%" or "Eating bacon increases your risk of bowel cancer by 30%" or "Being woke doubles your risk of clinical depression", THEN there's something there and people can assess the risks and take action.
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Let's say getting an [uglyDisease] happens with probability of 1e-6. Let's say eating eggs increases the probability of [uglyDesease] by 30%. Well, it does not make sense the avoid eggs when your chance to get [uglyDesease] is only 1.3e-6 when you eat them.
The latest WEF agenda (Score:3)
This probably failed which is why they're trying to link it to cancer now. When everything in your life runs on electricity, they have more control over you. Now when they cut off your electricity, they stop your ability to move (because you have an electric vehicle), they can cut you off from cooking and eating healthy (because your stove is now electrical).
Resist this madness and keep your gas stoves and internal combustion engines.
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Natural gas and propane are awesome. They work when the grid goes down. Older gas appliances that don't co
I hope that was a parody (Score:2)
Learn how to detect and assess truth.
You own me a new irony meter.
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Older gas appliances that don't contain transistors are EMP proof.
Ahahahahah.
Well, I'm sold.
Contrived and sensationalist (Score:5, Interesting)
The measurements were performed in tiny "houses" which were sealed to the outside. House 1 and House 2 (~100 m^2 in size), which produced the greatest results, had bedrooms immediately adjacent to the kitchen. The oven was left on for 1.5 hours. The most egregious emitting gas ovens were ~2 times the median emission (so what you should actually expect to get is ~ 1/2 the worst case the article reports).
Excerpts from the paper:
the long 8-h time course benzene concentrations reported in the section “Benzene Migration to Bedrooms” were measured in open kitchens (see Definitions above) in 6 different houses. We did not use fans or other means of active air circulation during the long 8-h time courses.
As described below, when quantifying benzene emission factors (rates of benzene emitted per unit time), we closed kitchen doors and windows and sometimes sealed parts of the kitchen with plastic to limit the kitchen volume in order to measure the emission rates more accurately (see Figure S8). Throughout the paper, we refer to kitchens partitioned with any plastic as “sealed” kitchens and to kitchens with doors and windows closed but with no plastic sealing as “unsealed” kitchens. When we conducted our long 8-h time course measurements of concentrations in kitchens and bedrooms, we opened interior doors. We refer to these as “open kitchens”.
To quantify the dispersion of pollutants from kitchens to bedrooms, we measured ambient benzene concentrations in bedrooms farthest from open kitchens of six houses (without using fans to mix the air) under a scenario with the oven set to 475 F for an hour and a half and then turned off while measurements continued for another 6.5 h. During these measurements, we kept interior doors open (see Figure S1 for floorplans of the houses). House 1 (90 m2) had a gas oven with the highest emissions that we measured, houses 2 (85 m2) and 3 (70 m2) had ovens with emissions between the mean and maximum, fueled by propane and gas, respectively, houses 4 (75 m2) and 5 (140 m2) had gas ovens with near-mean emissions, and house 6 (85 m2) had a gas oven with below-average benzene emissions. In all six cases tested, burner or oven use elevated peak bedroom benzene concentrations between 5 and 70 times above baseline levels and in some cases beyond the California OEHHA acute and chronic RELs
So I guess it is possible that someone could experience these levels if they live in a tiny apartment, close all windows, turn off any heating/cooling, make something that takes > hour to cook, has one of the least efficient ovens, and continues to keeps their apartment sealed for the next 8 hours.
There is also no precisely quantifiable risk here. Benzene is a carcinogen and it's believed more exposure is increasing your risk of developing cancer, but no one could tell you from this study that you are x% more likely to develop cancer because you cook twice a week on a gas stove. You are also likely exposed to benzene from other sources as well such as gasoline, wildfires, car exhaust, general air pollution, glues, paints, and detergents.
The main take away should be that good ventilation while cooking is an easy precaution to minimize risk if you are cooking with gas or propane. Which was already a good idea for the CO/CO2. I would say very little reason to worry otherwise, at least based on this study.
Tested with hood? (Score:2)
How much of it remains if you use a hood to extract fumes while cooking? Found inconclusive answer in PDF: "Ventilation and hood use affect benzene concentrations [...] The comparison of hood-on high vs hood-off demonstrates that residential range hoods are not always effective at reducing pollutant concentrations, even if they vent outdoors" ... So how much is hardly mentioned, need to go into references and read the other study https://www.tandfonline.com/do... [tandfonline.com] ...
Fancier DHMO panic (Score:2)
Stuff like this is facepalm-inducing. It's a bit fancier than getting worked up over dihydrogen monoxide. Benzene rings are in everything organic: amino acids (which means proteins) and a large proportion of the compounds responsible for the flavors and smells in food (aka esters) for starters.
Because of that, free benzene has been floating around in the minute quantities described since life began. While large concentrations of benzene are bad, low concentration are not. Life on earth has evolved to dea
what I read (Score:2)
...is that the federal government is simply building their case for what they want to do, using the camouflage of faked/twisted/contrived "science" to help that case.
#followthescienceaslongasitsupportsideology
Nothing like, say covid or climate change, of course.
I 100% guarantee this will be quoted incessantly in Congress. You know, when they're "not coming for your gas stoves, silly!"
About Europe and Pacific Gas & Explosion (Score:2)
nothing to see here? (Score:2)
I may be misunderstanding but they say
"We assume a temperature of 25 C and a pressure of 1 atm when converting between true concentrations and molar mixing ratios, which yields the conversion 1 ppbv benzene = 3.19 g benzene m–3."
There tested upper bound of 12.5 micro grams would translate to about 0.004 PPMV which is well below the 1 PPM most safety orgs start to take notice and say you should do something.
Additionally there was no ventilation in these test and no real world conditions tested
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correction 3.19 micrograms not g
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However using the gas to generate electricity would be a lot more efficient.
On a kinda related note... I have a friend who recently switched their clothes dryer from propane to electric and says the clothes dry faster with the electric dryer. Don't know why this would be. Anyone? Google says, "propane produces 4 cubic feet of water vapor for every cubic foot of gas it burns". Thoughts?
Re: Drop the gas, use electric (Score:2)
I had the exact opposite experience, plus it's a lot cheaper to run. Maybe his old dryer was broken?
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Maybe you're confusing electric and electric? A propane dryer is absolutely all the things you said compared to a resistive electric dryer, but it's none of the things compared to an integrated heatpump-electric.
Heatpump electric dryers are cheaper to run than gas, and by nature of specifically creating dry hot air, not just hot air they operate much faster. They don't even need external exhaust.
Downside... initial up-front cost.
Re: Drop the gas, use electric (Score:2)
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The "limit" for either is how hot the air is allowed to get which should be similar. Both heat sources are good enough to get the air too hot.
Few on-grid solar installs have any/enough batteries to make load-shifting useful.
Re: Benzene? Pbbbt, people DRINK that crap for fun (Score:3)
Sodium benzoate is metabolized different from benzene. And humans and other mammals generally tolerate small amounts and excrete it in their urine. It is found naturally in very small amounts in many plants that we eat. The poison is in the dose.
Another hot topic in soft drinks is brominated vegetable oil. While bromine is very toxic, as BVO it is almost non toxic. It keeps some of the flavorings used, especially citrus oils, from turning into an oil slick on your drink. It's a specific gravity thing. Unfor
Re: Benzene? Pbbbt, people DRINK that crap for fun (Score:4, Funny)
Yeah and table salt contains chlorine. But only if you're a fucking moron.
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Maybe you're confusing electric and electric? A propane dryer is absolutely all the things you said compared to a resistive electric dryer, but it's none of the things compared to an integrated heatpump-electric.
Heatpump electric dryers are cheaper to run than gas, and by nature of specifically creating dry hot air, not just hot air they operate much faster. They don't even need external exhaust.
Downside... initial up-front cost.
Doesn't need an external exhaust? Where does the moisture go?
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Don't know about the old (gas) dryer. He has solar panels on his roof so that helps with the cost of using the electric dryer -- he's way past the ROI on the panels. His furnace and stove/oven are still propane though as converting them would be a PITA while the laundry room was setup for both electric and propane when the house was built.
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I doubt it would be the water vapor from the gas, the fumes are vented outside. It is probably just a new drying that did the trick.
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I've never used a propane-heated clothes drier before, but I would be very surprised if the exhaust from the burner was directed into the clothes! I'm fairly confident this is not the case.
Also less pollution than fossil-electric. (Score:3)
Yes that means the water vapor, carbon dioxide, and trace combustion products pass through the clothes. But the heating FAR more than makes up for bit of added water,
Further, you get to use ALL the heat to dry the clothes. That's one of the reasons it's far cheaper to run than electric.
With fossil-fueled grid generation from, say, natural gas (all other fossil fuels are higher in carbon output per watt) you "pay a carnot-cycle tax", dumping a substantial fraction of the heat at the plant, then lose more i
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Electric stoves get hot eventually and then when hot cool down eventually , but for cooking you generally want immediate fast high heats that turn on an off quickly
That might matter for a wok, but I do most of my cooking in cast iron which has the same characteristics anyway. That instant heat won't warm up the pan anyway.
I am still considering an outdoor gas burner (propane) for stir frying. Dangerously hot for using inside, but any fumes produced (mostly by the food in the case of propane) would have a lot more air to dissipate in.
Re: Drop the gas, use electric (Score:5, Interesting)
Gas systems are ages old and has stuck around for an eternity just because it's there and people are used to it.
However using the gas to generate electricity would be a lot more efficient.
None of that is true. There's a lot of reasons why chefs overwhelmingly prefer cooking with gas instead of electric. It mainly centers around getting instant eat and being able to adjust the temperature much faster. The restaurant industry in particular really doesn't take kindly to California's attempts at banning natural gas, and they're not even selling it.
And I don't know what possesses you to believe that it's somehow more efficient to convert heat to electricity and then back to heat again, but that is definitely not more efficient, very much the opposite in fact. Also transmitting energy over electrical lines is going to result in a much higher loss of energy than moving gas through a pipe.
Re: Drop the gas, use electric (Score:5, Interesting)
There's a lot of reasons why chefs overwhelmingly prefer cooking with gas instead of electric. It mainly centers around getting instant eat and being able to adjust the temperature much faster.
My understanding is that gas is preferred for the cook-top for responsiveness (as you noted), while electric is preferred for the oven as it can maintain heat / temperature more evenly than gas. You can buy these types of mixed gas/electric for home use.
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I switched from gas to induction last september. Responsiveness is equal to the responsiveness of gas stoves, and I know a couple of chefs that prefer it over gas. Easier cleaning of the stove is a nice bonus.
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Also switched to induction a few years ago and I disagree. With gas you can clearly see the flame, estimate the amount of heat being produced and adjust accordingly. Induction just had some numbers on a display, and heat output varies with the size of the cookware being used. I'm forever fiddling with the controls on my stove, it's always too much heat or too little.
There's a lot to like about induction; the cleanliness, efficiency and lack of pollution but controllability is much inferior to gas.
Re:Food tastes better with a flame. (Score:4, Funny)
that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.
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that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.
What's even more impressive is that you read it.
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That's more about heat retention and conductivity. If you don't have one, get a good cast iron. Makes some great bacon. You need high enough heat to get browning and thin metal pans can't do that on electric.
Re: Food tastes better with a flame. (Score:2)
He's probably talking about grilling, which people often do with gas, especially restaurants.
Re: Drop the gas, use electric (Score:5, Informative)
The restaurant industry in particular really doesn't take kindly to California's attempts at banning natural gas, and they're not even selling it.
I saw something on this, perhaps on NOVA, and a restaurant tried induction cook-tops and liked them better than their gas ones as induction was actually faster and more responsive than gas. They also had the benefit of making the kitchen cooler.
Re: Drop the gas, use electric (Score:5, Interesting)
This is obviously the case. I've had an induction cooktop for the last eight years. It's more responsive than gas, it's faster at heating large amounts of food, you get more fine-grained control, it's much easier to keep clean, etc etc. Plenty of restaurants use induction (eg French Laundry, Dinner by Heston Blumenthal, etc), plenty use gas, plenty use both. But induction is clearly gaining share over time, not least because it's so much cheaper to run. The OP is just going off his own culture-war vibes, not any actual facts.
Re: Drop the gas, use electric (Score:5, Insightful)
Induction has a ways to go for consumer versions yet. An induction stove top ( last I looked ~1-2 years ago ) was almost double the same size electric / gas top. The cost doesn't YET outweigh the benefits, such as the faster preheat times and faster water boil times.
An induction burner also will work less effectively with cast iron ( it will work, just not as effectively), and will NOT work with copper pans.
I also don't particularly like the glass tops. My gas stove has cast iron grates, I can slide any pans, including my big cast iron pans, across the top as much as I like without worry. Not so with a glass top.
As for the big scary benzene shit? I highly doubt it is any more carcinogenic than walking down the street sucking in exhaust fumes from all the cars on the road.
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This, however, will be irrelevant as conservatives will still cling to gas stoves in the end. Why? Because... STIGGINIT! (aka "If'n that durty deemonrat is fer it, their aginst it!" )
https://youtu.be/eUywI8YGy0Y [youtu.be]
Unless you are buying a professional stove for home use, your home electricity costs are sky high, or electricity is unavailable at your home, gas should not be the first choice. I can also attest that many homes with gas cookto
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My lady is a chef and her preference depends on what she's cooking (we have discussed this at some length.) If you need to handle the pan, then it's gas. If you don't, then she's perfectly happy with induction. I have had the same experience. Even the systems that don't totally freak out when you lift the pan still don't work the way gas does, obviously.
Re: Drop the gas, use electric (Score:2)
I don't know about restaurants, but for home use nothing beats induction. It heats faster than anything else. It cools down fast. It uses less electricity than halogen. It's so amazingly easy to clean.
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"There's a lot of reasons why chefs overwhelmingly prefer cooking with gas instead of electric"
There are lot of reasons for chefs to switch to cooking with electric....induction
Re: Drop the gas, use electric (Score:2)
https://www.reuters.com/legal/... [reuters.com]
Re: Drop the gas, use electric (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
None of that is true. There's a lot of reasons why chefs overwhelmingly prefer cooking with gas instead of electric. It mainly centers around getting instant eat and being able to adjust the temperature much faster. The restaurant industry in particular really doesn't take kindly to California's attempts at banning natural gas, and they're not even selling it.
However using the gas to generate electricity would be a lot more efficient.
All of that is true.
Chefs can be idiots just like everyone else and will stick to "how it's always be done" by default. Induction stoves are just as quick to heat up if not faster and can adjust instantly too.
Efficiency is a bit tricky but it absolutely can be more efficient, because you're not letting most of the heat just escape into the room around the pot. Plus if the grid is mostly renewable it's a no-brainer. You can check the experiment here between a basic induction cooker vs 17,000BTU gas burner: h [youtu.be]
Re: Drop the gas, use electric (Score:5, Informative)
Induction requires using only very specific cookware. I like aluminium pans like a lot of people for example as cleaning them after experiments is way easier and they're much lighter to toss around the kitchen, and those don't work on induction stove. It's steel bottom or go home with induction.
This is why while it looks cool and takes almost no space, most people use much larger and less cool looking resistive heating electric ovens.
Re: Drop the gas, use electric (Score:5, Informative)
Your phrasing "very specific", while true, makes it sound like induction-compatible pans are hard to find, when actually they're routinely available everywhere.
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You can get induction plates for induction stove tops that allow you to use cookware that doesn't normally work with induction. Basically a thin steel plate that sits between the cookware and the element. There's a whole bunch of them on Amazon.
Re: Drop the gas, use electric (Score:2)
I don't know about you but I do cooking as a hobby, and there's quite a difference between cooking with gas and electric.
As for induction, that sounds like it wouldn't work too well for stuff you typically need an open flame for, like grilling and searing. And like the other poster said, it doesn't sound like it would work well for all cookware. I wouldn't know as I haven't used an induction range. For stuff involving eggs or fish, I generally prefer anodized aluminum, I like those t-fal pans in particular.
Re: Drop the gas, use electric (Score:3)
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"Induction cooktops are regressive, actually" is concern trolling of an entirely new level, I have to say.
Re: Drop the gas, use electric (Score:3)
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transmitting energy over electrical lines is going to result in a much higher loss of energy than moving gas through a pipe.
Is that really true? We lose less than 5% to transmission losses in the US. I have a hard time imagining being able to generate hundreds of PSI of pressure and maintain it for less than that. PGE has IIRC four main pumping stations needed to distribute natgas throughout California alone. There's a map of both interstate and intrastate natgas distribution lines here [energy.gov], what a spectacular mess.
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However using the gas to generate electricity would be a lot more efficient.
Are you suggesting that using gas to generate electricity and then using that same electricity to generate heat is more efficient that just burning the gas to create heat? There are going to be energy conversion losses at both ends. I would argue that burning the gas to create and use the heat directly is more efficient than converting the heat to electricity and then back to heat.
There may be other environmental or health reasons to use electric heat for cooking, but I don't buy the argument of efficiency.
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You could collect the CO2 at the power plant and sequester it underground.
Re:Drop the gas, use electric (Score:5, Interesting)
You have a lot of heat loss at the burners in the kitchen and gas leaks in the gas network that lowers the efficiency.
At a power plant you can have a controlled burn and also use the excess heat for a central heating system instead of just venting it out the smoke stack.
There are some losses in the electrical grid, but not at the same level as with burning gas.
You have to look at the total system efficiency.
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Re: Drop the gas, use electric (Score:2)
Maybe in your area the gas system is old, but that's not true everywhere (speaking from US perspective). There are plenty of new gas systems being laid that are generally less leaky than the older cast irons systems. Indianapolis (new) vs Boston (old) is an example of the difference in emissions. And many older systems are getting upgraded (Philadelphia).
One fundamental advantage of gas supply is that it's still available during power outages. That's true for stoves, hot water heaters and furnaces (if you c
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One fundamental advantage of gas supply is that it's still available during power outages.
You would think that all the compressors that keep the lines pressurized would be gas powered, but they're not. They still need backup power to be available during a power outage.
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However using the gas to generate electricity would be a lot more efficient.
I 60% agree with you. Resistive heat is one of the least efficient things you can do with electricity, so between that and generation losses you're at a huge disadvantage. I live in the Midwest and do not want to see what heating my home would be like at the12 cents per KWh we are at here.
Any natural gas used for electrical generation will just be absorbed into the relatively (higher) price of electricity, even if it lowers the unit cost a bit. For the consumer, the efficiency will actually cost more.
I
Re: Skeptical (Score:2)
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Of course this is 100% politically motivated to kill off fossil fuels. Because they can't convince people to get rid of their cars because global warming, maybe they can ban stoves because they make you sick. Allegedly.
It's really amazing that otherwise rational Democrats fall for this nonsense. Fear of ostracism is strong indeed.