Sperm Counts Worldwide Are Plummeting Faster Than We Thought (nationalgeographic.com) 289
Five years ago, a study describing a precipitous decline in sperm counts sparked extreme concerns that humanity was on the path to extinction. Now a new study shows that sperm counts have fallen further and the rate of decline is speeding up, raising fears of a looming global fertility crisis. From a report: The initial study, published in July 2017, revealed that sperm counts -- the number of sperm in a single ejaculate -- plummeted by more than 50 percent among men in North America, Europe, Australia, and New Zealand between 1973 and 2011. Since then, a team led by the same researchers has explored what has happened in the last 10 years. In a new meta-analysis, which appeared in the journal Human Reproduction Update, researchers analyzed studies of semen samples published between 2014 and 2019 and added this to their previous data. The newer studies have a more global perspective and involved semen samples from 14,233 men, including some from South and Central America, Africa, and Asia. The upshot: Not only has the decline in total sperm counts continued -- reaching a drop of 62 percent -- but the decline per year has doubled since 2000. The 2017 report also revealed that sperm concentration (the number of sperm per milliliter of semen) dropped by an average of 1.6 percent per year, totaling more than a 52 percent among men in these regions over the previous four decades.
Doesn't matter (Score:4, Funny)
The swallowers are just interested in the life-prolonging Spermidine.
Re:Doesn't matter (Score:4, Interesting)
If we're all affected, then we need to look at common ground - literally. What do all these cultures have in common? We can start with sharing the same planet. The only potential conspiracy I see here is that people like you and are are squaring off in an arena sponsored by businesses who don't give a fuck about the next generation because they care more about next quarter.
Don't be a sucker.
Re:Doesn't matter (Score:5, Insightful)
I have 2 kids, and I see the pressure to identify as some sort of sexuality and gender type.
My 17 year old girl started getting caught up in it at the age of 12. I thought I should be the supporting parent, took her to our local LGBTQ teen center so she could "be with her own kind" so to speak. She'd go hang out with other young kids her age with non-cis genders and sexualities. They'd play games, they'd talk. That's cool.
I'd later put together she had been somewhat influenced by one of her friends claiming to be "Pansexual". Listening to their entire friend group talk over Discord is just silly. "Oh I'm a pansexual" or "I'm a lesbian transgender!" or "I'm an Asexual Xi". It reminds me of when I was a kid, and my friends and I would play superhero. "I'm BATMAN!" "No I'm SUPER MAN!" "OH YA? I'M AQUAMAN!"
Maybe I'm just old, but when I was a kid (In the 80's, a fairly progressive time) our sex education was, "This is sex, this is how sex gets you pregnant, here is how sex can give you STD's, here is how you can avoid STD's, here is how you can avoid getting pregnant, some people are gay" It's that last bit that I think has changed in the last 40 years. No longer is the lesson about intercourse, or sexual health. Kids are being presented with "Super Sexuality Heros!" Is it really needed?
Going AC on this, because I know folks will hate this opinion, but I think kids are impressionable, and can get wrapped up in wanting to be on the right side. Right now, 47 genders is being presented as "Politically correct" while "Cis-Gen White Male" is presented as Evil. Oh, going back to my son, he's Cis-Gen White Male. I told him never let anyone let him feel bad about being a white boy who likes girls.
Re:Doesn't matter (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe I'm just old, but when I was a kid (In the 80's, a fairly progressive time) our sex education was, "This is sex, this is how sex gets you pregnant, here is how sex can give you STD's, here is how you can avoid STD's, here is how you can avoid getting pregnant, some people are gay"
Nope, they left that last bit out when I took sex ed in the early 90s, and I still turned out gay.
It probably needs to be said more frequently, but us LGBTQ+ folks aren't trying to turn your kids queer. We just want LGBTQ+ youth to achieve parity with the experiences straight kids are able to have in school. Sex ed should be inclusive of issues faced by LGBTQ+ youth (especially that it's always okay to rat out any adults who attempt to be a sexual predator), and high school proms shouldn't be only for straight couples.
while "Cis-Gen White Male" is presented as Evil
Not evil, but in some cases complacent and lacking empathy. You didn't sit through sex ed class wondering why it was all about these vagina things you had no interest in. You didn't have where a school-age crush was off-limits because you'd face unending social ridicule if you acted upon it. Your right to marriage isn't younger than the Apple iPad.
There's nothing wrong with being a cisgender white male if you understand there are other people who were denied the experiences that you took for granted.
Re: Doesn't matter (Score:4, Insightful)
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I wouldn't worry too much about kids joking around on Discord. At age 12 they are very unlikely to be actually engaging in sex, and in time they will naturally find they have feelings for others and have the understanding needed to process those emotions.
Young people are a lot less hung up on labels and precisely defining sexuality and gender. There's also nothing wrong with "cis-gen white male", some people just want you to believe you are under attack for being one but it's not true.
Modern sex education f
Re: Doesn't matter (Score:3)
Re:Doesn't matter (Score:5, Informative)
Your premise is that a globalist conspiracy to give people oestrogen back in 1967 for use as birth control at levels high enough that a mere ~4bn pissing trace amounts into the water supply has lead to males taking in so much unfiltered oestrogen by way of water from lakes and oceans and other dilute liquid sources that it, filtered and treated in your local filtration plant, actively impacts testosterone levels?
Because this is starting to sound a little like homeopathy.
Birth Control Pills (depending on the type) contain more than Oestrogen. Some contain Progesterone, which can metabolize into testosterone. So that doesn't seem to fit your premise.
Do you know what reliably converts into oestrogen?
Testosterone.
Speaking of breaking down, what's the half-life of oestrogen?
I could break down the rest of your post, but I don't have an hour to critically dissect the misinformation that you've been fed. It takes time to put thought and consideration into a post, which is what these conspiracy theorists rely on: people accepting crap at face value because it takes time to sort out the details. The sources that have been feeding you misinformation are hurting you and discouraging you from critically thinking. You honestly deserve better for yourself.
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Looming fertility crisis (Score:5, Insightful)
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Ooh. Cum and joke mines on Mars. Who would guess that it would be women who set up Gilead? (Gilead was set up because of female infertility, not male)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re:Looming fertility crisis (Score:4, Interesting)
I never saw the show but from the book: the infertility problem was blamed 100% on women (because the powerful always blame problems on the powerless), but it was much less clear that women were solely to blame. It's been a while since I read it, but I believe the book hinted that male infertility was as much (or more) of a problem. Monotheistic zealots are not the only folks who blame their problems on females, but they're a pretty big chunk of the problem at this point.
I agree that declining birth rates are not a problem, and even if it becomes a problem we will be able to science our way out of it. I'd prefer we knew WHY this was happening, since whatever causes this may be causing other problems, but if we cause our own extinction it won't be due to sperm counts.
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The show makes it semi-clear that it was a male problem at least as much as it was a female problem, but that, in typical human fashion, the macho assholes decided the best solution was to enslave the females. At least we know of two instances where the male couldn't get the handmaid pregnant until she started boppin' somebody else behind his back, and in this last season they made it pretty explicit that was the situation.
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You're equating declining fertility with mass murder?
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Welcome to the type of claims people on political extremes make! Luckyo is a known far righter but to be fair to him you'd hear equally batshit stuff from communists (as in actual communists, not the left leaning moderates the American right wing call communists)
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Yeah, I just wanted to highlight the insanity.
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Damn it, I'm doing my best. (Score:2)
I'm over 50 now, though... the refractory period suffers.
Inversely proportional to sexual activity (Score:3)
Lower sperm counts mean men are having more sex. Or masturbating more.
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Lower sperm counts mean men are having more sex. Or masturbating more.
All 4 billion of them???
Re:Inversely proportional to sexual activity (Score:4, Funny)
Lower sperm counts mean men are having more sex. Or masturbating more.
All 4 billion of them???
Wait, they measured the sperm count of all 4 billion men?
I must not have been home that day.
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What I assume they measured was a average, for the sperm counts to drop on average, on average men would have to have sex or masturbate more. The figure says nothing about ALL men.
I have no idea if this is a significant factor for the drop.
Re:Inversely proportional to sexual activity (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd also wonder if this drop in sperm counts correlates with the increasing availability and quality of pornography on the Internet. I mean, in 1973 there was Playboy and disgusting porn theaters in the bad part of town. In 2022 we have high definition on-demand video porn for free from many different venues in varying formats including VR.
What kind of investigation has gone into the test subjects' truthful histories prior to donating a sample?
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I'd also wonder if this drop in sperm counts correlates with the increasing availability and quality of pornography on the Internet. I mean, in 1973 there was Playboy and disgusting porn theaters in the bad part of town.
Seems as plausible as any other theory.
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Please quote where I said that nobody had a wank previous to 1973.
What an absolutely stunningly stupid reply.
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Sperm count is inversely related to how often a man ejaculates.
Lower sperm counts mean men are having more sex. Or masturbating more.
That is a non sequitur, because sperm count is related to other factors as well. Your conclusion is like saying traffic accident rates are correlated with average speed, so if the accident rate went up it must be due to people driving faster.
To save humanity (Score:3)
I put my old keyboards into cryogenic storage.
Pollution, plastics in particular (Score:5, Interesting)
I may trigger some people with this but I can't help but wonder if the widespread gender confusion of late isn't partly related. This will never be studied of course but it's an interesting thought. And to be clear I'm all for people being whoever they want to be.
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I may trigger some people with this but I can't help but wonder if the widespread gender confusion of late isn't partly related.
Sounds distinctly plausible. Nature is smart enough to work several angles at once. If reducing sperm counts doesn't do the trick, getting men to consort with men certainly helps.
Although I am still impressed by the well-known experiments on overcrowding in monkeys. Past a certain point they begin to behave very much like city dwellers.
If this goes on, we can expect to see gangs of women kidnapping fertile men for sex.
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getting men to consort with men certainly helps.
That would be sexual preference, not gender.
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I may trigger some people with this but I can't help but wonder if the widespread gender confusion of late isn't partly related. This will never be studied of course but it's an interesting thought. And to be clear I'm all for people being whoever they want to be.
Well, it maybe a contributing factor. Hormones do influence behavior. But why do you think this will never be studied?
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I may trigger some people with this but I can't help but wonder if the widespread gender confusion of late isn't partly related. This will never be studied of course but it's an interesting thought. And to be clear I'm all for people being whoever they want to be.
why do you think this will never be studied?
Seriously? Any sort of examination of any trans topic that isn't 100% supportive of the trans community is immediately labelled "transphobic" and shut down. Damn near all online communities are effectively trans-positive echochambers.
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Are there more trans people now than there were 100 years ago? We have no idea. There are more people out as trans now than back then, but that's not the same statistic.
Do pollutants that mimic hormones influence people to become trans? We have no idea. Giving trans people extra hormones that correspond to their sex assigned at birth does nothing to make them not be trans. And there's a case [wikipedia.org] of a cisgender male who was raised as a girl because of a botched circumcision and given estrogen, yet he neve
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It's possible that pollutants that affect the in-utero environment could cause people to be trans, but again... we don't know. I don't see any harm in studying this because it wouldn't really change anything for existing trans people.
The potential for harm lies in people being pathologized, and attempts made to "cure" them. I've suggested the same thing here before though, and been soundly panned for it, and I'm glad to see the idea come up again.
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That is a risk, for sure.
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It is not a yes/no thing. Men and women are not fundamentally different as people (even though some gender-insecure people strongly believe so), it is shades of grey. Hormones would only need to shift things a bit for some people to decide that no, this gender nature gave them is not it after all. It is clear you cannot shift most people this way.
That said, I see not problem with anybody being trans. I see a problem if they then demand to get special attention. Or put differently: Do I mind? No. Do I care?
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Only reasonable explanation is environmental factors.
Why is it the only reasonable explanation, have you found a causal link, and done an examination of all the other reasons, known and unknown.
It could be women are now looking for more feminine men, I don't know and don't claim to know. But to exclude all other explanations based on little evidence seems naive.
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> I may trigger some people with this but I can't help but wonder if the widespread gender confusion of late isn't partly related.
What makes you think gender dysphoria wasn't always as common, but societal pressures kept it from being acknowledged and a lack of medical technology prevented it from being acted upon?
=Smidge=
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I have previously specifically wondered whether that is or isn't true, and it is the interesting question. But we can't know without studying it, and even then we're dependent on surveying people who are alive now so there's a limit to how far we can look back into the past.
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The prevalence of "Left-handedness" is an example that immediately comes to mind.
Handedness has a strong genetic component, yet the prevalence of left-handedness rose from ~4% in 1900 and leveled out to ~12% by 2000. Was there a surge in left-handedness, or were ~12% of people always left-handed but concealed the fact due to the stigma associated with it?
What I think we're seeing is not an increase in gender dysphoria, but a combination of people finally being able to express themselves more, having the lan
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I may trigger some people with this but I can't help but wonder if the widespread gender confusion of late isn't partly related. This will never be studied of course but it's an interesting thought. And to be clear I'm all for people being whoever they want to be.
If you are triggering folks it might be because you're using the term "gender confusion" instead the actual term "gender dysphoria".
Gender dysphoria [wikipedia.org] refers to the distress a person experiences due to a mismatch between their gender identity—their personal sense of their own gender—and their sex assigned at birth. Nothing in that definition forces you to accept their gender identity, it's just acknowledging that they don't identify with their birth gender.
When you say "gender confusion" you're im
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^ Triggered!
Not really.
I was just trying to point out that if the OP was legitimately trying to avoid triggering people then they should avoid using an insulting term. I might have been a legitimate mistake on their part.
On the other hand, if the OP was aware that "gender confusion" would be offensive to trans-gendered people, well then the OP was trolling and trying to trigger people.
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What are you talking about? What is your point? I'm pretty sure you're saying something critical of gay and nonbinary people but even in your own context I don't see how your arguments makes sense.
Are you arguing that people with physical deformities shouldn't be allowed to marry each other? That nobody should bake cakes for mentally disabled people? That somebody with fetal alcohol syndrome wasn't born that way? That there is no such thing as bigotry toward the disabled or disfigured?
Meth (Score:2)
Give them meth that seems to make people fertile, at least around here it does.
It will be hilarious (Score:2)
when they discover it's caused by excessive carbon dioxide intake
Good. (Score:2)
Excellent (Score:2)
Some natural regulation mechanisms for overpopulation seem to work. Not enough, obviously, but everything helps.
Don't Worry! (Score:3)
Tucker will save us [rollingstone.com]!!!
64 DAYS... (Score:3)
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The full spermatogenesis cycle is indeed 64 days, but the male body is constantly producing sperm and has reserves at various points in the cycle. This study [nih.gov] reckons an abstinence period of between 7 and 10 days is ideal. Still, maybe most guys get off more than once a week, so...
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It's plastics (Score:5, Interesting)
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It very well might be plastics, but it's insane you think this is some sort of Left-wing biased issue!
People will try to make everything fit their political framework, no matter how awkward it fits in one box, I suppose?
It was far Right people I first heard complaining about plastics, honestly. They were expressing concerns back when drinking water out of plastic water-bottles first became popular, claiming the plastic introduced chemicals into the water that "de-masculinized" men (and hinting that the Left
Re:It's plastics (Score:4, Informative)
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oh yea ! the birth of another wedge issue.
What if it is the opposite of pollution ? What if something is missing now that was once more prevalent - I hear lead can lead to aggression, could lead withdrawal be causing this ?
Perhaps we all need a little more lead in our pencils
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Most experts believe it's caused by microplastics. You'd have to either hang around some left wing sites or dig directly into the research itself to hear this though. Disposable plastics of the kind that create microplastics are extremely big business so you're not going to hear a lot about it on Fox news or CNN. Their advertisers wouldn't like that.
Do we have any actual, you know, proof, of that, other than microplastics being the current fad bogeyman and fashionable to be blamed for everything?
Animals, Too? (Score:5, Interesting)
So we're monitoring this in humans, but what about in animals? If the problem is the general environment, then we should be seeing the same thing across the board. If it's just humans, then that suggests environmental issues are more specific to things like food packaging. I suppose the problem here is we just don't have the data.
True story (Score:5, Informative)
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Since we're oversharing: I had been sitting in front of a computer for 10 hours a day for 25 years before getting married and having kids. During that time period, I masturbated once a day almost every day, and wore skinny jeans and tight underwear. This continued even after getting married, though I then had help ridding my body of sperm every day.
When we decided to have kids, we would have sex once or twice every day. It took damn near no time at all for the pregnancy test to give a positive result. I had
vasectomy (Score:2)
I had 3 kids then got a vasectomy, which cut my sperm count 100%! I'm throwing off the stats.
A Little Early for Those 'Extreme Concerns' (Score:3)
The human population is on track to hit 10 billion people before the end of this century, so concerns about being "on the path to extinction" from this particular cause is a little, shall we say, "premature"?
All evidence thus far is that declines in the fertility rate is due to people wanting smaller families, or none, not that at the demographic level there are problems in making babies by large numbers of people who want them.
In the world-as-it-is we appear to have plenty of excess male fertility still to maintain stable populations if the combined will of the people wants to do that. If this continues eventually it will start to become a real problem, and fertility enhancing measures may be necessary. Collecting and concentrating sperm from multiple ejaculations for artificial insemination has been available for decades and works to allow pregnancy using donors with low sperm counts. This could be done more generally as low sperm counts become a common problem.
So, still a long way (as in many centuries away) before the threat of "extinction" raises its head.
Stopping the decline in sperm counts should be addressed, but may involve something like banning all use of plastics - if this is due to ubiquitous exposure of extremely low levels of synthetic hormone-like chemicals.
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I've read about studies on this topic years ago. Still continuing work and it's heavily linked with chemical pollution. The "taint" gap has been changing as well which is probably not related other than the chemicals also are linked to that too. TONS of endocrine disrupters are dumped all over earth for generations now. Not just PVC (which the EU almost banned but the USA got involved because we do PVC.)
The problem impacts mammals as well and likely is contributing to their higher rates of extinction (thoug
Measured HOW? (Score:2)
So this is a study of studies. I doubt [m]any of them went out and collected samples :) Repeatably. They most likely collected data from sperm-banks and fertility clinics, both doing their own collection and measurements. Various techniques on a variable populations, some of whom were seeking medical care for related ailments. Sorry, I'm not impressed. Doom-pr0n.
Longitudenal un-meta studies (no clinics) would be more convincing, especially if controlled for factors such as age.
Oh noes (Score:2)
I would have thought the right would be thrilled with this, too. Less call for abortions (not that anyone wouldn't be thrilled at fewer abortions but since that particular procedure seems more important to some than the actual lives of real, fully formed people...)
I wonder if its natural population control (Score:2)
it's a temp thing (Score:2)
Nobody has postulated global warming yet? The balls are outside the body cause it runs too hot. If the outside air is too hot as well..........
Seems like a fairly well designed feedback system: "Hi, this is your balls. It's too hot so there's gonna be less of you soon. I'll blast more baby sauce when it cools down. Peace"
Re:basic health issue? (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't think that would explain results from, e.g., Africa. Not unless cases were carefully selected to fit your model.
I'm more believing that it's the result of some sort of pollution. Micro-plastics is one possibility, but there are many others.
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Obesity is becoming immense problem in Africa. Some countries have a third of the population obese (Egypt, Libya), South Africa is 28 percent.
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Obesity is becoming immense problem in Africa.
Indeed. Obesity is a big problem in Africa. Many more people are overweight than undernourished.
List of countries by obesity rate [wikipedia.org]
Obesity is worst in Polynesia, followed by Arab countries. Southeast Asians are the skinniest.
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I also wondered about "masculinity"--if a more aggressive male stature is less welcome these days, could that be reflected in our chemistries somehow, like the epigenetic changes of those who lived through the Potato Famine?
We are also bathed in radio energy more so than ever before: Ubiquitous cellular towers/phones, Wi-Fi, certain vehicles' object sensors, general EMF from our many devices, to name a few.
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The fact that even most third worlders nowadays carry cell phones and men often carry them in their front pockets right next to their junk occurs to me as a possible contributor to this in regards to your radiation exposure comment.
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Standing in the sunlight bathes you in far more EM radiation than cell phones do. We don't know what causes the problem, but we can rule out a lot of things including cell phones and WiFi pretty easily.
For example: We have proof that sunlight causes cancer: skin exposed to sunlight gets cancer more often than skin not exposed to sunlight. As cell phones become popular, if they caused cancer then we would expect cancer rates in heads and pelvic areas to increase relative to cancer rates in other parts of t
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If it's EM radiation, then the precise frequencies will be important.
Yes, it's non-ionizing, but small changes in amounts of energy absorbed can influence the rates of reactions, and we aren't looking for something that would make an obvious change.
But I still think some chemical(s) or other is most likely the cause. Unfortunately, there are so many possible candidates that that doesn't help much. It would be a lot better if we could show that the hypothesis of environmental chemicals is wrong, and the be
Re:basic health issue? (Score:5, Interesting)
Do we have statistics for non-humans? One would presume that we'd see similar issues across mammals if that is the causative factor.
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Yes, that, of course, would the the way to test this theory. We may well have that statistic for domestic animals, but they are so highly inbred that I wouldn't think it a good source. Deer, though, would be a good thing to check. Other primates would be nearly optimal, and there are lots of colonies of monkeys.
Somebody may know already, but it's not me.
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Yes, that, of course, would the the way to test this theory. We may well have that statistic for domestic animals, but they are so highly inbred that I wouldn't think it a good source
Not to mention veterinary care and diet for domestic animals has improved dramatically over the last 40 years.
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There are big differences between humans and wild mammals.
Humans, at least in developed countries, buy food that has been grown with artificial fertilizers and pesticides, the food we eat comes packed in plastics, and heavily processed foods have myriads of artificial components.
And wild animals do not live in houses that have insulation, paint, water repellents, and so on ...
So
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Using BMI is not a good indicator of obesity. Percent body fat is the only real indicator of what is healthy. There was a study done looking at people in India, and while their BMI was good, and they looked slim, they had an unhealthy amount of body fat. I did find this web article, but there are many others from more prestigious publications that say the same thing but in a more round-about way.
https://cadiresearch.org/topic... [cadiresearch.org]
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It depends how it is measured. BMI has been found to be an absolute dogshit method.
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Growing global obesity and rising level of inactivity couldn't be the cause? Lack of exercise is known cause of lower sperm count!
Nah. It's much more likely to be bottled water or something like that.
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Yes, I was going to speculate that the supposed "population bomb" might be naturally self-limiting. We have 8 billion people on the planet. That should be enough for a while. We have decades to become alarmed over this.
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Indeed. Anything that reduces growth or leads to overall shrinkage helps, the earlier the better.
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Again, the one to blame here is you. Assuming that "anything" includes killing off people on mass-scale here mandates at the very least a verification question. Not asking that question makes it an intentional assumption of the worst possible option and that is on you. Also stop blaming you communication disability on others.
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Absolutely. Finally a crisis that's going to work in our favor for a change!
The problem is our economic system (Score:2, Insightful)
The right people? (Score:4, Insightful)
First things first those 8 billion people aren't necessarily the right people.
[Emphasis mine]
Apropos of nothing, who are the "right people"?
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Apropos of nothing, who are the "right people"?
Given who you're talking to, the answer is presumably "people who think like rsilvergun."
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Apropos of nothing, who are the "right people"?
Given who you're talking to, the answer is presumably "people who think like rsilvergun."
I think we all know exactly what he meant.
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collapses into feudalism.
With all the oligarchs around, we are collapsing into feudalism right now
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Thanks! Exactly what I was thinking of posting. If I had mod points I would mod you up as "Insightful".
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Overpopulation is not caused by birthrate (Score:4, Informative)
Human overpopulation is not caused by a high birthrate. In fact, birthrates have been declining for decades in both the developed and the developing world (even without declining sperm counts). The population continues to increase primarily due to other causes (lower infant mortality, less starvation, fewer wars, better healthcare, etc) most of which are generally good things. Population growth is already slowing and will soon plateau and start declining.
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How can hate follow? We're all "meh, whatever" aren't we?
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Just to make sure I understand you correctly, you're suggesting that this:
"sperm counts -- the number of sperm in a single ejaculate -- plummeted by more than 50 percent"
could be explained in some significant degree by trans people?