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Medicine Technology

Neuralink Expects Human Trials Within Six Months (engadget.com) 118

Andrew Tarantola writes via Engadget: It's been six years since Tesla, SpaceX (and now Twitter) CEO Elon Musk co-founded brain-control interfaces (BCI) startup, Neuralink. It's been three years since the company first demonstrated its "sewing machine-like" implantation robot, two years since the company stuck its technology into the heads of pigs -- and just over 19 months since they did the same to primates, an effort that allegedly killed 15 out of 23 test subjects. After a month-long delay in October, Neuralink held its third "show and tell" event on Wednesday where CEO Elon Musk announced, "we think probably in about six months, we should be able to have a Neuralink installed in a human."

Neuralink has seen tumultuous times in the previous April 2021 status update: The company's co-founder, Max Hodak, quietly quit just after that event, though he said was still a "huge cheerleader" for Neuralink's success. That show of confidence was subsequently shattered this past August after Musk reportedly approached Neuralink's main rival, Synchron, as an investment opportunity. Earlier in February, Neuralink confirmed that monkeys had died during prototype testing of its BCI implants at the University of California, Davis Primate Center but rejected accusations by the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine of animal cruelty. Musk responded indirectly to those charges on Wednesday. "Before we would even think of putting a device in an animal, we do everything possible we with rigorous benchtop testing, We're not cavalier about putting these devices into animals," he said. "We're extremely careful and we always want the device, whenever we do the implant -- whether into a sheep, pig or monkey -- to be confirmatory, not exploratory."

Neuralink is still working towards gaining FDA approval for its implant, though the company was awarded the agency's Breakthrough Device Designation in July 2020. This program allows patients and caregivers more "timely access" to promising treatments and medical devices by fast tracking their development and regulatory testing. As of September, 2022 the FDA has granted that designation to 728 medical devices. The FDA has also updated its best practices guidance regarding clinical and nonclinical BCI testing in 2021. "The field of implanted BCI devices is progressing rapidly from fundamental neuroscience discoveries to translational applications and market access," the agency asserted in its May guidance. "Implanted BCI devices have the potential to bring benefit to people with severe disabilities by increasing their ability to interact with their environment, and consequently, providing new independence in daily life."

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Neuralink Expects Human Trials Within Six Months

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  • by haruchai ( 17472 ) on Thursday December 01, 2022 @02:14AM (#63092964)

    Or is he not human enough to qualify?

  • by locater16 ( 2326718 ) on Thursday December 01, 2022 @02:17AM (#63092970)
    As this is Elon Musk time, Neuralink may start trials in six years, or go broke, or the sun and every star the universe may vanish in heat death and then it'll be "definitely next month".
    • As this is Elon Musk time, Neuralink may start trials in six years, or go broke, or the sun and every star the universe may vanish in heat death and then it'll be "definitely next month".

      Sounds about right [twitter.com].

  • For science (Score:4, Insightful)

    by slack_justyb ( 862874 ) on Thursday December 01, 2022 @02:18AM (#63092972)

    Well, as a man enters his 18th decade, he thinks back on the mistakes he's made in life.

    Like the heaps of dead monkeys?

    Science cannot move forward without heaps!

    Implants are neato. That said, Musk has indicated that the ultimate goal here is to have what basically boils down to bluetooth for your brain. Hell, that might sound neato as well, but fuck, the first thing Musk developing implants for the brain makes me think is Twitter ads in your brain that you cannot turn off.

    It'll be cool for all the ocular implants for the blind. Will absolutely suck in the boring dystopia in that there's likely to be some horizontal integration bound to happen. But like many things, I'm sure Futurama called it [youtube.com].

    • Well given the current trend, there won't be many advertisers worthy of note to support it re Twitter.
    • by Barny ( 103770 )

      It'll be fine! You'll be able to pay $8 a month to halve the amount of ads.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Thursday December 01, 2022 @05:17AM (#63093140) Homepage Journal

      People seem excited to have one of Musk's chips in their brain, but when BIll Gates was giving them away for free with COVID vaccines they didn't appear to be interested.

    • by gtall ( 79522 )

      Elmo won't put twit ads in your brain, he'll simply cut to the chase and have you splurge on some of his tat and gizmos.

    • Ocular implants already exist for eyes. Granded, the quality is apparently terrible, but terrible beats complete blindness any day, I would imagine.
  • by Petersko ( 564140 ) on Thursday December 01, 2022 @02:19AM (#63092976)

    When I heard of this stuff a while ago, my internal monologue went something like, "That's way out there. Interesting. I'm excited to see where this goes."

    Now, the observer in my head is yelling, "Good god, man. How did we miss this supervillain in training? The signs were crazy clear!"

    • I keep hoping someone else will notice that "Elon Musk" and "Hugo Drax" have the same number of letters in their names, but noooooo...

    • "Good god, man. How did we miss this supervillain in training? The signs were crazy clear!"

      You might have missed noticing that Musk is a megalomaniac supervillain, but others have been pointing it out for years. I first noticed him and his problem around 10 years ago when I first saw his bullshit Hyperloop idea.

    • by q4Fry ( 1322209 )

      I don't know... I thought even if well-intentioned, the potential for abuse in NeuraLink was pretty astronomical. And that's just if it works. I'm sure there are myriad other examples, but I found the Ghost in the Shell TV series to have a number of interesting conundrums around brain hacking.

      Obligatory XKCD [xkcd.com]

  • by Anonymouse Cowtard ( 6211666 ) on Thursday December 01, 2022 @02:43AM (#63093000) Homepage

    Neuralink should merge with Meta. It sounds like the perfect match. How else would you rather experience the Metaverse than with your Neuralink?

    So it's a merger, then sack 5,000 staff and call it an efficiency gain.

    • by q4Fry ( 1322209 )

      Neuralink should merge with Meta. It sounds like the perfect match. How else would you rather experience the Metaverse than with your Neuralink?

      I'm assuming this is sarcasm, but let me tell you: They were literally trying to do this from 2017 [roadtovr.com] until they shut the program down in 2021. [technologyreview.com]

  • by backslashdot ( 95548 ) on Thursday December 01, 2022 @03:49AM (#63093054)

    For the first time ever, someone will use their brain to tweet.

  • by bradley13 ( 1118935 ) on Thursday December 01, 2022 @05:05AM (#63093130) Homepage

    I didn't see this in TFA or any other direct links, but it would seem to critical information: Why did the monkey's die? Infection? Brain damage from the implants? Something else? That is essential to be able to evaluate the potential of this technology? For what it's worth, the ongoing lawsuit has point and counterpoint:

    The lawsuit alleges that monkeys were not provided with adequate veterinary care and that an “unapproved substance” known as BioGlue “killed monkeys by destroying portions of their brains.”

    ...and...

    In Neuralink’s blog, the company said there was “one surgical complication involving the use of the FDA-approved product (BioGlue),” and the monkey was euthanized.

    So we still don't know...

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      The options are

      A) Nuralink killed the monkeys
      B) Negligence killed the monkeys

      Either way I won't be volunteering to be the first human test subject.

    • Probably not the people who claim an approved product is not approved. Not definitely, but probably given how they made a fundamental error that indicates they don't know what they're talking about.
  • by mark-t ( 151149 ) <markt AT nerdflat DOT com> on Thursday December 01, 2022 @05:45AM (#63093170) Journal

    One, Neuralink or something like it could pave the way for neural passwords:

    Disadvantages of other security methods invariably arise, other biometric traits can be obtained by taking pictures of your face or your fingerprints, sometimes even without your consent, physical keys or devices can be stolen, and even the ubiquitous password has the weakness that they there are almost always means of getting people to disclose them, even if begrudgingly. A neural password could require that the person have some kind of willful intent to use it, and could hypothetically even be configured to not work while under artificial compulsion or duress.

    The second thing I look forward to with this kind of technology is the ability to abandon the keyboard and mouse as primary means of controlling a computer - rather, a computer could simply responds directly to your what you are willing it to do. This reduces the chances of RSI in arms and fingers, and has tremendous applications for people who may be suffering from physical disabilities. It would also have the upshot of making rooms that may have many computer users in them at the same time much quieter, allowing for easier concentration. And before anyone brings up how this would be problematic for some people because they may not want their innermost thoughts to be manifested by a real device in this way, like the above mentioned neural password idea, I'm pretty sure that such a system could be configured to require willful intent.

    • by larwe ( 858929 ) on Thursday December 01, 2022 @06:08AM (#63093200)

      making rooms that may have many computer users in them at the same time much quieter, allowing for easier concentration

      This post was very well crafted, because it is literally impossible to determine if it is a savagely tongue in cheek troll, or real. If the latter... it's hard to imagine how deep the rabbit hole has to go for someone to believe that invasive surgery is a solution to the horror of hearing keyboard noise in crowded computer rooms. As for the "require wilful intent" comment, is it really not self-evident to you that a mind-to-computer interface is practically designed for abusive use, and that having this abusive system police its own rules does not mitigate that in the slightest?

      • I also don't know whether to take OP seriously. I can't say I've noticed keyboard noise in any office since they did away with typing pools. The main noise in offices now is people yakking on the phone, to which the most effective invasive solution would be to stuff rags in their mouths.
      • by dfghjk ( 711126 )

        and it says nothing, it claims that something "could" arise based on some unique quality that isn't expressed and is merely imagined to exist. Well, anything could happen, and whatever does won't because Musk himself contributed anything.

        And why would it be a goal for a computer to simply respond "directly to your what you are willing it to do"?

        "...much quieter, allowing for easier concentration"

        Brain implants to solve this problem? Talk about an apologist!

        "And before anyone brings up..."

        Yep, pure apologi

        • by mark-t ( 151149 )

          And why would it be a goal for a computer to simply respond "directly to your what you are willing it to do"?

          The advantages as they apply to assisting people with physical disabilities or other motor control issues are immediately obvious, even on the current iterations of the technology.

          Also, there is no reason to think that controlling a computer directly by thought would not ultimately be faster and more efficient than using physical devices such as keyboards and mice once the underlying technology ha

      • by mark-t ( 151149 )

        is it really not self-evident to you that a mind-to-computer interface is practically designed for abusive use

        Can you explain why it is "designed for abusive use" any more than any other mechanism that we may currently use to communicate our intentions to a computer.

    • You sure want to go through a lot of hoops just to avoid having to think up a secure password.
      • by mark-t ( 151149 )

        Whether one has a secure password or not is moot, because methods can always exist to compel people to disclose them. Sometimes a court order can compel you to disclose your password., for example. You might inadvertently disclose your password to someone who should not have had it because you were being deceived. Finally, the classic $5 wrench method of obtaining an otherwise secure password usually works. My point is that like physical devices such as keys, even necessary biometric information and

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Thursday December 01, 2022 @07:22AM (#63093298) Homepage Journal

      Your brain has 86 billion neurons in the brain. The wires can sense large groups of them changing electrical potential, that's it. It's like trying to understand a movie shot on a camera that was out of focus and over-exposed. You can make out some vague shapes maybe, but that's about it.

      We can actually already do that with surgery, or with an MRI. Nuralink only makes it easier to install the wires, the rest is marketing wank about somehow decoding those extremely indistinct signals using AI. Musk consistently over-estimates the capabilities of AI, e.g. with his "full self driving" cars, with his robot, with Starlink's collision avoidance system.

      It isn't going to be able to do any of the things you describe.

      • by mark-t ( 151149 )

        As it exists so far, you are correct.

        But your comment is lacking in any reason to expect that this technology will simply stagnate on its first iteration and never be improved upon.

        • Sure, after Elon blows up a bunch of test subjects... move fast and break brains.

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          It will never work. You can't install enough wires to get that kind of detail. If it ever happens it will require something other than poking wires into your brain.

          I'd love to know what Musk considers to be an acceptable failure rate. What odds of dying or being brain damaged does he expect people to accept, in order to tweet with a thought and have ads pumped directly into their noggins?

        • As it exists so far, you are correct.

          But your comment is lacking in any reason to expect that this technology will simply stagnate on its first iteration and never be improved upon.

          Well it's been around [mepits.com] for a while [bbc.co.uk]. It's hard to say how far neuralink has come since then, but the basic tech has been around for a while. Normally I'd be more optimistic but Musk's reputation for underestimating the difficulty of problems does him few favours here.

          I think increasing the number of neurons they interface with is going to be a hard problem. The 2D interpretation of the monkey's movements playing pong was impressive, but also a relatively simple test.

          Either way, even this level of functionalit

          • by mark-t ( 151149 )

            I just don't see it advancing to the point where it's a useful implant for non-disabled people for a very long time.

            I can respect that... although I think "long time' is a bit subjective. The future has a way of always coming faster than most people expect.

          • by cusco ( 717999 )

            I can't find how many wires the Synchron implant uses, but Neuralink is putting in about 1100. Once the tech is in use they will be able to add multiple sensor points to each wire, contacting more than one neuron with each.

        • by cusco ( 717999 )

          Once upon a time SlashDot was full of people with imagination and curiosity. I miss those days.

    • The problem is that the electrodes move, and what happens someone records and replays the signal?

      • by mark-t ( 151149 )

        Generally speaking, the same sort of thing that happens today when you, for instance, position your phone beside your face so that its camera has a profile shot of you instead of looking straight at it when using facial recognition. If the difference is too great, it wouldn't recognize it, and it would be as if you hadn't done anything.

        Not that it matters, we're all but certainly more than just a couple of years away from being able to do any of the stuff I was talking about in any practical use case a

  • It will require a Twitter account to use it.

  • I don't understand why people still take Musk's hyperbolic promises at face value.

    Sure, Neuralink will start human trials in 6 months. Just in time for FSD, the New York - Washington hyperloop tunnel, the Tesla Semi, the Cybertruck, the TeslaBot, or those million robotaxies we're supposed to see running around.

    • by Rei ( 128717 ) on Thursday December 01, 2022 @09:15AM (#63093542) Homepage

      FYI, the first Tesla Semi deliveries start today. So that's a rather curious kind of vapourware you have there.

      Cybertruck starts about half a year from now. Just completed a new round of hiring of producton staff.

      Boring Company announced project statuses can be found here [youtube.com]. TL/DR: they've made lots of bids, most of the hindrances have been on the procurer's side, and on the projects they've gotten the go-ahead on, they've made great progress.

      Tesla Bot was only just announced a bit over year ago and no timeline was given. That said, and for FSD: I have little hope of seeing anything like that replace humans any time soon. AI today works superbly withhumans, compensating well for human weaknesses, but usually needing a human to compensate for itsweaknesses.

      People keep writing off everything Tesla does as vapourware. They did that with the Roadster. Then the Model S. Then the Model X. Then the Model 3. Then the Model Y. Writing Tesla products off as vapourware is not a winning bet, FYI. I'd just caveat that with the fact that it's not always guaranteed to be the case, and with the above caveats about (my take on) their AI products.

      • FYI, the first Tesla Semi deliveries start today. So that's a rather curious kind of vapourware you have there.

        Musk, on 2017: "Tesla semi unveil now Nov 16." [twitter.com]. Sorry, i'll believe it when i see them driving down the highway.

        Cybertruck starts about half a year from now. Just completed a new round of hiring of producton staff.

        Musk, on 2017: "Just received verbal govt approval for The Boring Company to build an underground NY-Phil-Balt-DC Hyperloop. NY-DC in 29 mins." [twitter.com]. All we've seen from the Boring company since is a short tunnel under Vegas which fits a single car at the time. Pretty LED lighting, though.

        Tesla Bot was only just announced a bit over year ago and no timeline was given.

        Musk, 2021 Tesla AI Day: "“We have a shot of being in production for version one of Optimus hopefully next ye [cnbc.com]

        • by Rei ( 128717 )

          Musk, on 2017: "Tesla semi unveil now Nov 16."

          And it was unveiled on November 16th, so what exactly is your point with linking that? Are you confused about the difference between an unveiling and production?

          Sorry, i'll believe it when i see them driving down the highway.

          Yeah, same as people said endlessly about the Roadster, the Model S, the Model X, the Model 3, and Model Y.

          Musk, on 2017: "Just received verbal govt approval for The Boring Company to build an underground NY-Phil-Balt-DC Hyperloop. NY-DC in

          • Oh, FFS. I should've known better than replying to a Musk fan.

            • by Rei ( 128717 )

              I actually don't like the guy. He's turned into a far-right misinfo-spreading conspiracy theorist who's actively destroying the brand. I look forward to him being booted off the board of Tesla.

              But I do care about facts.

      • Boring Company announced project statuses can be found here [youtube.com].

        You need to link to something that isn't a promotional video.

  • He always does this. Anyone else would see investigation from the SEC over false claims. These are the same jokers who were killing monkeys. Capitan Cyborg is further along with a brain interface than them.

    Why do we let them lie to us?
    • Re:Bullshit (Score:4, Funny)

      by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Thursday December 01, 2022 @08:31AM (#63093424) Homepage Journal

      Their monkeys were already slated for destruction, and they managed to use them for an additional experiment. Aside from the issue of using monkeys at all, at least they're maximizing ROM (return on monkeys)

  • Seriously, I'd like to be a test subject of this.

    • by Rei ( 128717 )

      I'd like it once it's approved by regulators. I'm not looking to be bleeding edge, but would like being leading edge.

  • by nospam007 ( 722110 ) * on Thursday December 01, 2022 @08:41AM (#63093450)

    Can't wait.

  • A Musk-approved chip in your brain. This plus his office management style at Twitter demonstrates the show Severance is more like a premature documentary.

    If Musk approaches any of this children to try the Neuralink chip for Daddy...

    • A Musk-approved chip in your brain. This plus his office management style at Twitter demonstrates the show Severance is more like a premature documentary.

      If Musk approaches any of this children to try the Neuralink chip for Daddy...

      Musk only has kids with Canadian women. Lower maximum child support payments and stuff like that, I guess.

  • Yeah, it may be a long way off but it is a great antidote to job loss through automation.
    Now let's look at the other responses to job loss:
    UBI - dead in the water, not implemented anywhere but petro-states
    Genetic enhancement of human intelligence - huge ethical issues
    Let the people starve in the gutter - this is what we are currently doing
    Get rid of capitalism - the world will end before that happens
    • There's already lots of smart people who can't get a job because they're not willing to be abused. Employers don't want implants to make workers smarter. They want them to make workers slaves. The slogan of the corporatist masters movement should be MAKE WORKERS SLAVES AGAIN.

  • The company's co-founder, Max Hodak, quietly quit just after that event

    quit quietly or 'quiet quitting'? the latter is all the rage with the young kids these days, i hear

    • The company's co-founder, Max Hodak, quietly quit just after that event

      quit quietly or 'quiet quitting'? the latter is all the rage with the young kids these days, i hear

      He heard Musk say it was time they ate their own dogfood ...

  • and just over 19 months since they did the same to primates, an effort that allegedly killed 15 out of 23 test subjects

    All human customers will be expected to pay up front.

    • by cusco ( 717999 )

      Higher in the thread is the description of those numbers. Essentially all of the monkeys were due to be euthanized before they went to Neuralink, they had been used in other experiments and in fact some of them were delivered dead (for cadaver experimentation).

  • The company's co-founder, Max Hodak, quietly quit just after that event

    Not mentioned in this summary is that Elon Musk successfully implanted two miniature humans [jalopnik.com] within Hodak's replacement using his proprietary PenileLink technology. Trials of this technology seem to be continuing, though additional test subjects have yet to be publicly identified. Perhaps his usage of "hardcore" in this quote is an indicator Twitter staff may be recruited [theverge.com]:

    "What works at SpaceX and Tesla is people being in the office an

  • ...is my new band name, per:

    and just over 19 months since they did the same to primates, an effort that allegedly killed 15 out of 23 test subjects.

    Non-democracies would start forcing this on their citizens if it gave them either a control advantage or an economic advantage. It's the kind of thing a typical dictator can't resist.

  • I am not giving away any spoilers. Don't worry.

    One of the main characters in the movie is a caricature of Elon Musk. Weird Tech billionaire owning private islands, sending zany puzzles to friends and lots of quirks weirdo stuff.

    The release coincided with Elon going medieval on Twitter, both in tweets and in management. Sooner or later Elon will tweet about his caricature in the movie. Positive or negative, that will garner very valuable publicity for the movie.

  • It seems to me that opening skull is quite extreme and justified in cases when there's no other way to improve e.g. a paralyzed person life, however there are less invasive alternatives, which use already available technology, which is used to open blood vessels in brain in case of clots: https://www.freethink.com/hard... [freethink.com]

    Regardless, I hope the Congress has already started working on law protecting people against abuse (e.g. mind read or influence) - just kidding, in the US the only protection we can hope fo

    • by cusco ( 717999 )

      People have been opening skulls for at least 8,500 years, trephination is one of the oldest know surgeries.

      • People have been opening skulls for at least 8,500 years, trephination is one of the oldest know surgeries.

        Agree, however it doesn't mean it's less invasive than "not opening a skull", additionally keep in mind that the neuralink requires to leave the skull open (AFAIK).
        Again - it's a great tool to help paralyzed people, or people with certain sensors (vision, hearing, etc.) problems, just there are less invasive alternatives for certain applications.

        • by cusco ( 717999 )

          The coin-sized controller is mounted inside the skull, and charged wirelessly. I don't think that the hole in the skull can be closed (except by natural bone growth), but there will be a plate inserted under the scalp and it will be closed up again. I suppose if you were bald it could be a topic of conversation, but otherwise there should be no external sign and no route for infection.

          • Are you sure? Last time I checked the cheap is "sticking out" of a skull and cannot be covered with a regrown bone.
            It's not literally sticking out, because it's thickness is similar to the skull bone thickness, but you get the picture.
            They might've changed something though since - please send a link to some latest details about the neuralink chip procedure.

  • Shoot, itâ(TM)s not like full self driving mode was ready for human trials either.

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