Europe's Energy Crunch Squeezes World's Largest Particle Collider (wsj.com) 138
Europe's energy crisis is threatening to slow experiments into the fundamental forces of nature. From a report: The European Organization for Nuclear Research, or CERN, is drafting plans to shut down some of its particle accelerators at periods of peak demand, said Serge Claudet, chair of the center's energy management panel. CERN is also considering how it could idle the Large Hadron Collider, the world's largest accelerator, if necessary, Mr. Claudet said. "Our concern is really grid stability, because we do all we can to prevent a blackout in our region," Mr. Claudet said.
The preparations show the far-reaching impact of Moscow's move to transform Europe's dependence on Russian energy supplies into a weapon of economic war. Emergency measures are now on the table after Russian energy giant Gazprom PJSC said Friday it would indefinitely stop natural gas deliveries through the Nord Stream gas pipeline, Russia's main artery for delivering the fuel to Europe, pushing the continent closer to gas rationing as winter approaches. Sweden and Finland on Friday said they would offer funding support to regional electricity producers, saying that Gazprom's move threatened the region's power market and its broader financial stability. The European Union is preparing plans to restructure the market to ease some of the pain.
The preparations show the far-reaching impact of Moscow's move to transform Europe's dependence on Russian energy supplies into a weapon of economic war. Emergency measures are now on the table after Russian energy giant Gazprom PJSC said Friday it would indefinitely stop natural gas deliveries through the Nord Stream gas pipeline, Russia's main artery for delivering the fuel to Europe, pushing the continent closer to gas rationing as winter approaches. Sweden and Finland on Friday said they would offer funding support to regional electricity producers, saying that Gazprom's move threatened the region's power market and its broader financial stability. The European Union is preparing plans to restructure the market to ease some of the pain.
Weaponised Energy (Score:4, Insightful)
I wonder when NATO is going to wake up and consider that this is very much an attack on utility infrastructure. I mean at this point it's not really too different than lobbing a rocket into a substation.
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NATO isn't going to risk a nuclear war to rescue a corrupt former Soviet territory. There will be a lot of hand waving, but ultimately the only people who are going to peel the Russians out of Ukraine are the Russians.
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NATO isn't going to risk a nuclear war to rescue a corrupt former Soviet territory. There will be a lot of hand waving, but ultimately the only people who are going to peel the Russians out of Ukraine are the Russians.
The only way the Russians will stay in Ukraine is if they are buried there. And it won't be a Russian decision. The only decision the Russians can make is how many of them stay in Ukraine permanently.
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Roughly half of the population in Ukraine: are Russians.
Note: *population* - not soldiers/invaders.
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No more cheap goods, (including parts for your phones, screens and batteries,) so they all get more expensive
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, because the Chinese are the only people in the world who can assemble iPhones. I seriously doubt China will invade Taiwan anytime soon. By the time they get the technology necessary to match the US either a) the US will have upgraded to something better or b) China's population will be half of its current level (because of demographics). Either way, they will have bigger problems. Invading Taiwan is the only decision that can lead to the CCP losing power and I just don't see a C
Re:Weaponised Energy (Score:5, Insightful)
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Yes, when they've executed contracts with me which specify such prices over periods of time, hell yes.
That would be a different issue.
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The US would do well to wean ourselves off China too, to decrease our dependence on them.
They are NOT our friends any more than Russia is a friend to EU.
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Europe was dumb enough to become dependent on these dirtbags.
This isn't so much Europe thing as it is a West vs developing world thing. The West has largely been ruled by an economic principle that pouring wealth into less desirable countries it leads to their stability of democracy and mediates extremism. Europe just largely chose gas with Russia, but we've done the same thing to China with manufacturing, India for labour. As a policy western nations have become dependent on unstable ones, unfortunately it didn't pan out how we thought it would, and these shitholes
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Gas and Russia is not really a problem.
It is just hyped in media and blown out of porpostion by the pro nuke and anti German haters.
The problem is: COAL! and the real real problem is OIL!
Europe, especially Germany got lots of its oil from Russia, far over 50% (don't remember the number, but it is higher than the Gas percentage), and even worth for coal. Coal can be aquired on the world market, without dramatic increase. Oil, not so much.
Gas is only "complicated", as we have many branches in the industries a
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Gas and Russia is not really a problem.
It is just hyped in media and blown out of porpostion by the pro nuke and anti German haters.
The problem is: COAL! and the real real problem is OIL!
Europe, especially Germany got lots of its oil from Russia, far over 50% (don't remember the number, but it is higher than the Gas percentage), and even worth for coal. Coal can be aquired on the world market, without dramatic increase. Oil, not so much.
Gas is only "complicated", as we have many branches in the industries a
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If you look at it from a pure capitalist point of few: the money Europe saved the recent 30 years, far out weights the money they now pay extra for a couple of years.
And if you dig deeper into the capitalizm meme: ...
As always the rich earned^H^H^H^H^H^Hmade a lot of money during that time, and even more now
While the poor have to "pay the prize"
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Are people obligated to sell you their possessions at a price that you like?
No, but they are obligated to sell you their possessions as required by a mutually agreed contract. There's a reason Russia hasn't come out and said "we're turning off your gas because we don't like you", it's because they are obligated to meet the conditions of a signed contract. They instead make all sorts of wild equipment related claims. They are (bullshit) claiming force majeure, somehow all 8 turbines on NS1 failed within a year on the pipeline. Somehow they can't take delivery of the one repaired one
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Choosing to not sell something isn't an act of war.
Russia is breaking their contract with Germany, but that will be dealt with in the proper way.
2008 red flag ignored (Score:3)
Europe should have seen the writing on the wall when Georgia was invaded in 2008. If you make deals with known crooks and aggressors, you are asking for it.
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Europe should have seen the writing on the wall when Georgia was invaded in 2008.
Easy to say in hindsight. To me, even when Russia too Crimea it wasn't clear what was going on.
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Easy to see this in retrospect. Crimea was (and is) a complicated place politically, with violent protests breaking out from time to time. I knew this before 2014. It's not improbable that the majority of the people in Crimea wanted to join Russia.
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It's not improbable that the majority of the people in Crimea wanted to join Russia.
Perhaps not really a majourity, aka more than 50%, but a HUGE amount of the population in Crimera are Russians.
The fucked up situation is similar like it was in Yugoslavia (and it is getting likewise in China): the rulers before encouraged or even forced people to migrate all over. So you have significant subpopulations of any "ethnic group" all over. With forced migration comes the typical thing: people of a certain backgr
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Perhaps not really a majourity, aka more than 50%, but a HUGE amount of the population in Crimera are Russians
Yeah, the situation is not really clear.
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No, it was roughly evenly split.
I mean, how exactly do you know? Do you trust polls coming out of Crimea?
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It's more complicated than that, EU is not a single mind, there were warnings all the way from the central European countries, which were ignored and Germany's plan for the future was to be the major distributor of Russian oil and gas in Europe (remember all the tensions regarding the Nord-Stream 2?). Germany closed most of their nuclear power plants and became dependent (~60% of their energy) on Russia, hence so little support for Ukraine possibly. Even Ukraine pays Russia for gas and Russia pays Ukraine f
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It's a voluntary act taken with the intention of inflicting pain on an enemy that will compel that enemy to do something it doesn't want to. Sure, it may not meet your definition of "act of war". But it is a move in a conflict.
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Conflict is not war. Adults have ways of settling conflicts without killing each other.
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and nation states are not individuals.
Do they have ways to settling conflicts without the use of force, maybe. Diplomacy is thing but generally speaking it depends on an underlying threat of force, or in the quarter century mono-polar Pax American and the Pax Ramona before it finding yourself outside the protection ^H^H^H^H^Hpeace umbrella. No wise or self respecting nation trades aware their self determination without believing at least in the possibility the other side could and possibly would make them
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I'm not sure what your point is. Are you trying to say that the EU and Russia should start shooting at each other? That's not a good idea.
Do they have ways to settling conflicts without the use of force, maybe.
Yes, they do. Germany has already started (and succeeded) at finding other suppliers of oil.
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I am saying we are in practical terms at war now - a new cold war. Just like the last one the reasons its not a hot war are both sides believe the other does represent and existential threat, and neither is convinced it could nuke the other into oblivion before they figured out what was happening and returned fire.
its a peace of a kind but it is a peace thru firepower. It is the capability and readiness to use violence that makes the other "adult" resolutions possible. Without the threat of violence the "ad
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More tech like Iron Dome and Patriot batteries.
I don't know why we haven't delivered this stuff yet. Kharkiev is crying.
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All war is conflict, some conflict is war. And sometimes, conflict is war hidden under a transparent fig leaf.
What we have in Ukraine is a classic proxy war, which is particularly useful when a geopolitical rival is foolish enough to get itself entangled in a quagmire. Proxy war has no formal status in international law, which is kind of the point: you can injure your rival while pretending (unconvincingly) that you aren't a belligerent. If the other side wanted they could *justifiably* point to your ac
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Attempting to undermine another country's economy by cutting off energy, or even *credit*, is not some means of settling a conflict like a mature adult.
It's much, much better than an actual war.
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What we have in Ukraine is a classic proxy war,
No it is not, as one of the big parties is directly involved.
The Iran - Iraq war was a proxy war for example.
Your argument makes sense from a point of view of the EU, for us Ukraine is a proxy to fight Russia, but: we gain not really anything from that.
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A proxy war can be proxy on only one side, like the Soviets in Afghanistan or the Americans in Vietnam.
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I'm curious what "proper way" you're talking about.
Germany already has different suppliers.
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There is nothing in your article that says Germany won't be able to stockpile enough for winter. They are restarting a coal power plant. That sucks, but it's not people freezing or dying.
Your link is evidence that they'll be able to achieve their goal.
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I guess Russia will be blamed for millions of innocent Germans, too then. They are like Mongols.
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No one in Germany is going to freeze to death.
https://www.reuters.com/busine... [reuters.com]
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/0... [nytimes.com]
https://apnews.com/article/ger... [apnews.com]
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/r... [cbsnews.com]
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Meanwhile the man in charge of Germany's energy security says their in deep shit.
That's not what your link says.
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NATO has been highly successful. Through a combination of combined arms capabilities, massive international cooperation, and an equally massive nuclear weapons stockpile, NATO actually achieved something unparalleled in human history: it raised the cost of an actual shooting war so high that it has become cost-inefficient, and effectively obsoleted, an actual shooting war with any of it's members. It practically eliminated warfare completely
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I wonder when NATO is going to wake up and consider that this is very much an attack on utility infrastructure. I mean at this point it's not really too different than lobbing a rocket into a substation.
Wait... are you seriously suggesting NATO declare Article V because the Russians won't sell them gas anymore? Especially after Europe was warned that they'd become too dependent upon it? And in the case of the Germans, literally laughed at those warnings? You ARE essentially arguing "Either sell us the gas, or we'll prod the US, UK, and France into nuking you".
This is insane. You people have gone insane.
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Sold. Not sell. Reneging on an agreed upon international supply contract.
And yes, this is what it means to weaponise resources.
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The people that weaponized energy are the Europeans.
Russia can do as it pleases with it's own resources and Europe can go fuck itself; Europe put itself in this position and that lesson needs to be learned. Trying to parley Europe's failure into a justification for escalation is cognitive fraud and you need to cut it out.
There are legitimate reasons to consider escalating conflict with Russia, but this isn't one of them. This is just Europe discovering the consequences of its own misguided policies.
Re: Weaponised Energy (Score:2)
The pipeline moves natural gas and military has stockpiles... the only balls in question are where are yours...
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In principle, yes.
However it is easier to hijack an oil truck on the road and use it to refuel a tank, than hijacking an LGN carrying truck, or capturing an LGN facility to refuel a tank.
So it is pretty impractical.
However a Leopard II runs on any burnable liquid, you can fill into it. Of course it has no LGN tanks ...
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Because no military has ever stockpiled fuel in the event of an embargo, right?
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He will likely be able to make this a shitty winter for the civilized part of Europe (which at this point is every part that isn't Russia or Russian-occupied), but after that, it's over. Europe will initiate a mass move to renewable power, energy efficiency, and bringing nukes online, supplemented by imports from the USA. The one thing you can bank on is, they will never buy another cub
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And Russian Hitler doesn't have pipelines to send it anywhere else!
He has.
However I agree with most of your arguments.
But capitalizm dictates: when the crisis is over, we all buy from the cheapest. And that includes future Russia.
Bad idea (Score:5, Informative)
The preparations show the far-reaching impact of Moscow's move to transform Europe's dependence on Russian energy supplies into a weapon of economic war
It will hurt EU this winter, but after that Europe won't be buying much Russian oil. Russia shot themselves in the foot.
Re: Bad idea (Score:1)
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Russia will still sell their oil and gas - to someone else.
Maybe eventually. They aren't building a pipeline to China anytime soon.
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There are no pipelines that lead from Siberia to India or China.
Of course there are.
I suggest to consult a map.
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The biggest calamity is that Europeans now cannot get Russian ice cream and cheese - There is actually nothing special about it - it is just made the way your grandma would have made it!
Granny's secret ingredient - just a pinch of polonium!
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It's not so easy to swap buyers as you might think. Prices are set by supply and demand. Reduce demand for your product by cutting off potential buyers, and you have to settle for lower prices from the ones remaining.
If you doubt it, check out current oil prices [oilprice.com]. The two main international oil price benchmarks are Brent Crude (currently selling for 92.57) and WTI Crude (currently 86.65). Compare to Urals Crude, the main benchmark for Russian oil, which is stuck down at 72.91. Or check out this graph [neste.com] of
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This is even more relevant than you are letting on. The movement of oil internationally is largely fungible with the overwhelming majority being moved by ships. Oil isn't an interchangeable product, different regions provide different types of oil which are preference by certain refiners which is why you sometimes see odd things such as one country exporting oil while their refineries import it from elsewhere. The fact that Urals is crashing is significant in that customers are looking elsewhere, and more i
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https://www.reuters.com/busine... [reuters.com]
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No idea what you want to point out with that link.
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At least one European country is still getting oil from Russia.
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Probably more than one.
Especially if the country is not in the EU.
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Anyway I think the most relevant question is whether Germany (and other countries) will be able to make it through the winter.
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That is more a hypothetical question, or a yellow press question, at least for Germany.
I could imagine that for the Baltic countries it could be hard, but Germany has no real winters since 30 years.
Ofc, you never know, the next one could be exceptional cold again.
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Ofc, you never know, the next one could be exceptional cold again.
Murphy's law says it will, I guess. In any case, better to be prepared than not.
Save energy (Score:2)
55 MPH particle speed limit now!
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Much like gas even though Russia produces quite a lot of it there are other facilities across the world that produce nuclear fuel. The rest of the world is absolutely working on ramping up production at these other facilities including the US, EU, Australia, etc. It's not some secret sauce only the Russians have but like gas the world was willing to outsource this dirty work and Russia was willing to take it on.
Also the US is set to surpass it's pre-pandemic levels of oil and gas production in January.
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My brother in christ, you are really letting it be known you are probably not in the US and/or are just pruposefully ignorant of how the global oil market works
Falling gas prices could land under $3 in some states [axios.com]
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Washington state has rather high gas taxes, but even here - last time I filled up at Costco it was $4.05/gallon.
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The fact that you had to cherry pick one town in the most expensive gas state in the country proves my point so well. I love when other people make my own counter arguments for me.
USA National Gas Station Price Heat Map [gasbuddy.com]
Most of the US is under $5 and many places under $4 now, some under $3
Look at the price trend for the past 3 months [gasbuddy.com]
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Why did the parent post get a down mod?
How are you going to "restart some nukes" when all the nuclear fuel rods to run them on comes from... Russia?
The claim is that the closed nuclear power plants have three years of fuel in them, that's been reported in news on the plan to restart these recently shuttered nuclear power plants. That's reasonable because they were closed prematurely over politics, not out of a lack of fuel. On top of that there's mention of running the power plants longer with reduced output if necessary. A fuel rod in a nuclear power plant doesn't burn up like a candle wick, it is more like a spring winding down or a battery running dead. The fuel loses potency over time as fission products build up, so they could run at 80% output for some time after the normal time to swap out fuel, then 70% for a bit longer, then maybe even longer at 60%. There is a point in which the fuel won't sustain a fission reaction, but with the current fuel load that's years out. That can buy time to get fuel rods made someplace other than Russia. Or even buy time to build completely different kinds of reactors, the kind that use molten salts for fuel instead of solid fuel rods. It would be a stretch to see that happen in 5 years, or however long they can stretch out current supplies, but we've done some incredible things in that kind of time before.
Not all of the nuclear power plants can be restarted, those closed long enough that they've had their fuel removed and dismantling has begun are likely beyond the point of no return. The reactors considered for restart have been idled but with the fuel remaining in the reactor as that's as good of a place to store fuel rods as any as the worst of the fission products decay away. Normally the fuel would be placed in a cooling pool, removed because new fuel needed that space in the reactor. If there's no new fuel to put in then the reactor becomes a cooling pool. It could take months to get the plant started again, a large part of that to complete all the licensing inspections. Even if there was an emergency that called for an immediate restart it could take days or weeks just to get everything up to operating temperature and not risk cracking something.
My suspicion is any plans to do anything that could be considered irreversible has been called off on these nuclear power plants. There's a good chance they already started the inspections to see what repairs would need to be done to get them on spec and running again. If they started repairs then it's almost certain that they will restart those reactors.
What needed to happen was to drill for your own damned oil, but y'all fell for that great Russian psyop, Greta Thunberg, so that never happened.
We will need to drill for more oil and gas in that time too. I'll see people mock the idea that nuclear power plants will help because this is a natural gas shortage, not an electric power shortage. With the loss of nuclear power generating capacity Germany began burning natural gas for electricity. By restarting those nuclear power plants that would be less natural gas burned for electricity, that is saving that gas for heating fuel.
Re: build more nuke plants! (Score:2)
Honestly if this goes on much longer, I wouldn't be surprised if it increases interest in SMRs which could be the fastest solution for a "drop-in" replacement.
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You're going to have to back that statement up with some serious proof, as there is a grand total of zero production SMRs in the world right now.
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what you call "building" ?! welding some pipes?
EVERYTHING in a nuclear reactor needs to be tripled checked, tested in different conditions, so yes, while you can "build" some small parts quickly, that is just a VERY small part of the construction and building step...
the only really operating SMR that exists is the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org], took 3 years to build and ignoring the time it took be be really used (2010 to 2018), all others are small prototypes, not to be run for a long period
China have
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in the far future, SMR may be build in on assembly lines, but being nuclear, there aren't that many potential clients and so only if one or two company manage to get the monopoly for that...almost impossible, as each country will have their own set of rules (not relaxed rules as SMR supporters want) and each country preferring their own company over the other country company.
More probably is that you will get 10 companies, each building one every few years (and that way you don't really have a assembly line
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If we started today, this war will have been over by at least seven if not ten years by the time the first one gets online. That's the problem with the current generation of nukes -- economics, not safety. They tie up your capital for a long time and don't return enough profit afterwards to justify that. It's one of the reasons small modular plants are promising -- they *may* shorten the planning and build time enough to make investment in nuclear competitive with investment in wind.
The reason France has
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the capitalist government of Texas allowed investors to do whatever was the most profitable.
"on wind energy, we get a tax credit if we build a lot of wind farms. That's the only reason to build them. They don't make sense without the tax credit." -- Warren Buffet who probably owns more wind generation than any human live. Be careful with that ideology. It can make one blind.
They invaded a major fraction of Europe, tardsky. (Score:1)
Re:We sure showed them Ruskies, eh? (Score:4, Insightful)
The LHC is probably one of the most optional things out there.
It's been working for 14 years now, and at this point likely exhausted most promising areas of research it could have done. There's a possible upgrade to it, which would require a shutdown anyway. So if it's still useful, might as well accelerate those upgrade plans a bit. Not that big of a deal.
Re: We sure showed them Ruskies, eh? (Score:1)
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Sources?
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Re:We sure showed them Ruskies, eh? (Score:5, Informative)
It's been working for 14 years now, and at this point likely exhausted most promising areas of research it could have done. There's a possible upgrade to it, which would require a shutdown anyway. So if it's still useful, might as well accelerate those upgrade plans a bit. Not that big of a deal.
Actually, it's just coming back up after an upgrade, and is now in "Run 3". After each of Run 1 and Run 2 it was down for upgrades (in 2013-2015, and 2018-2022). So, not really been running for 14 years now, rather about half that time.
In other news: it's common for accelerators to not run during peak energy times (usually the summer). To save money and to take load off the grid. Fermilab's nearly always off in the summer for this reason (beam coming back in October). Also gives you a good chance to do maintenance and upgrades.
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How does this get modded Insightful lol, LHC was literally just upgraded over the last few years
https://www.scientificamerican... [scientificamerican.com]
Re:We sure showed them Ruskies, eh? (Score:4, Insightful)
The end of civilization should occur in 2040 according to simulations.
I thought it was supposed to be 2012? Turns out there's a few of them [wikipedia.org]
Re: We sure showed them Ruskies, eh? (Score:2)
Re:We sure showed them Ruskies, eh? (Score:5, Informative)
We knew from the get-go that the Russians are pretty good at enduring hardship
That's good, because Europe's will be short, and Russia has decades to look forward to.
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Oh, so we should have just appeased the militaristic autocrat cunt who decided that land in a neighboring country is now his, right? Because we know from history that militaristic autocrat dictator cunts always stop after their first appeasement and never go for more.
It's pretty clear why you posted this anonymously. Is that you, Neville Chamberlain?
Motivating Russian desertions? (Score:2)
About 1/3 of the way down in a potentially significant discussion is the current termination of the vacuous and misdirected discussion.
And that's how the trolls win? At least on Slashdot.
New Subject question won't go anywhere, either. Safe prediction.
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Europe, not so much.
Based on what? By all accounts there's panic about gas supplies an imminent recession, and yet ... there's high support for sanctions to remain and to continue to refuse to send money to Russia.
It's like saying Hamilton isn't so good at endurance racing, after watching only the first lap of the F1.
Re: We sure showed them Ruskies, eh? (Score:2)
Latest stats on desertions of Russian soldiers... (Score:2)
If you insist on playing with trolls, do you have to propagate their trollish and thought-killing Subjects?
But it did remind me of a topic of interest that hasn't gotten much discussion on Slashdot. At least not where I've noticed, but it's always hard to see what should be there.
The topic of Putin's cannon fodder is quite important now. Putin certainly doesn't care about economic damage. No possible economic profit from invading Ukraine. Used to be you could capture the enemy's treasure, but that's not how
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I'm not sure if this is just two trolls shitposting each other or if second tough guy AC totally whiffed on the inference that Putin is shitposting on Slashdot, and instead gave us this completely hilarious and total fucking horse shit "tough guy" response, which may also be total sarcasm.
Either way, 5/5 for throwback mid-oughts internet tough guy bluster. Especially loved the "I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps" - you can just go check out an F-35 any time you like, eh?
Re: We sure showed them Ruskies, eh? (Score:2)
gorilla warfare
Yes sir. The meme checks out.
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I'm going with "total horseshit" because the United States Marine Corps has its own special operations forces (Force RECON) that is completely separate from the United States Navy, which operates the Navy Basic Underwater Demolition / SEAL (BUD/S) program.
The closest that guy has ever gotten to being either a Marine or a Navy SEAL is Call of Duty.
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not even in my wildest dreams would i imagine this working so well
AC; I salute you. This is a level of success in trolling that Slashdot has probably not seen in ten years. I mean, you'd have thought that this would be in the IRA [wikipedia.org] basic training day, but I guess with the need to send people to the front they cut down their training just the same as Prigozhin's other enterprises.
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what you are talking about?
You are just throwing out stupid trump tweets and pretending they are all related, totally ignoring the reality?! let me guess, fake news!!
- CERN is a european organization , it have ZERO relation with the UN!
- Their money come from their members and international research projects (including US based companies and universities)
- What even Trump have anything related with this issue? or internal US politics decisions about taxes or refugee? why is important to know how muslim are