The Sleep Debt Collector Is Here (nytimes.com) 41
Recent studies in humans and mice have shown that late nights and early mornings may cause long lasting damage to your brain. From a report: The sleep debt collectors are coming. They want you to know that there is no such thing as forgiveness, only a shifting expectation of how and when you're going to pay them back. You think of them as you lie in bed at night. How much will they ask for? Are you solvent? You fall asleep, then wake up in a cold sweat an hour later. You fall asleep, then wake up, drifting in and out of consciousness until morning. As most every human has discovered, a couple nights of bad sleep is often followed by grogginess, difficulty concentrating, irritability, mood swings and sleepiness.
For years, it was thought that these effects, accompanied by cognitive impairments like lousy performances on short-term memory tests, could be primarily attributed to a chemical called adenosine, a neurotransmitter that inhibits electrical impulses in the brain. Spikes of adenosine had been consistently observed in sleep-deprived rats and humans. Adenosine levels can be quickly righted after a few nights of good sleep, however. This gave rise to a scientific consensus that sleep debt could be forgiven with a couple of quality snoozes -- as reflected in casual statements like "I'll catch up on sleep" or "I'll be more awake tomorrow."
But a review article published recently in the journal Trends in Neurosciences contends that the folk concept of sleep as something that can be saved up and paid off is bunk. The review, which canvassed the last couple of decades of research on long term neural effects of sleep deprivation in both animals and humans, points to mounting evidence that getting too little sleep most likely leads to long-lasting brain damage and increased risk of neurodegenerative disorders like Alzheimer's disease. "This is really, really important in setting the stage for what needs to be done in sleep health and sleep science," said Mary Ellen Wells, a sleep scientist at the University of North Carolina, who did not contribute to the review.
For years, it was thought that these effects, accompanied by cognitive impairments like lousy performances on short-term memory tests, could be primarily attributed to a chemical called adenosine, a neurotransmitter that inhibits electrical impulses in the brain. Spikes of adenosine had been consistently observed in sleep-deprived rats and humans. Adenosine levels can be quickly righted after a few nights of good sleep, however. This gave rise to a scientific consensus that sleep debt could be forgiven with a couple of quality snoozes -- as reflected in casual statements like "I'll catch up on sleep" or "I'll be more awake tomorrow."
But a review article published recently in the journal Trends in Neurosciences contends that the folk concept of sleep as something that can be saved up and paid off is bunk. The review, which canvassed the last couple of decades of research on long term neural effects of sleep deprivation in both animals and humans, points to mounting evidence that getting too little sleep most likely leads to long-lasting brain damage and increased risk of neurodegenerative disorders like Alzheimer's disease. "This is really, really important in setting the stage for what needs to be done in sleep health and sleep science," said Mary Ellen Wells, a sleep scientist at the University of North Carolina, who did not contribute to the review.
good sleep: amount, quality and circadian timing (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:good sleep: amount, quality and circadian timin (Score:5, Interesting)
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There are also dental devices that can hold the airway open, if you can't use CPAP for some reason.
I also have sleep apnea. Funny thing is - I didn't realize just how messed up my sleep was until I started sleeping with a CPAP (well technically a BiPAP) machine and getting decent sleep. Now I do my best to use it all the time - even if I'm just napping during the middle of a Saturday.
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Yeah the weight thing is well enough known. I didnt get mine till I started putting on weight in my late 30s.
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Yeah the weight thing is well enough known. I didnt get mine till I started putting on weight in my late 30s.
Mine was fairly mild, but still bad enough. Somewhere during the course of losing 50 pounds the apnea disappeared totally, so I can attest to the value of shedding those extra pounds.
When my sleep apnea was active, I found that forcing myself to sleep on my side helped, as did using Breath-Right strips, which I still use because I just sleep more comfortably with them. But the biggest improvement, before losing weight, came when I trained myself to relax my jaw muscles and let my chin jut forward. I guess t
Re:good sleep: amount, quality and circadian timin (Score:5, Informative)
I've tried the stupid CPAP over and over and over again. But my dumb asleep brain just rips it off and throws the mask on the floor without my conscious mind knowing about it.
One thing I found was the TYPE of mask you use is very important. I've tried several different masks and found the simple nasal pillow with the swivel on the front works best for me. People who primarily sleep on their sides might have a different preference than those the sleep primarily on their backs. Some people have a problem with the high pressure air escaping out their mouths as they sleep so a full-face mask might be better for them. I tried a nasal cup once but because I have a mustache, it leaked too much and I didn't sleep well with it. Another model had the hose swivel on the side and that prevented me from sleeping on that side, so I asked for a new mask model. I eventually found the type that worked best for my sleep habits.
Also, the settings on the CPAP can make a huge difference on what your body perceives as acceptable pressure. I have my CPAP set to ramp up to operating pressure quickly so I don't feel like I'm being smothered as I fall asleep. Other people complain that when the CPAP ramps up to stop snoring or breathing interruptions, it doesn't ramp back down again often enough and leaves the person feeling like they are trying to sleep in a wind tunnel.
I would suggest you make an appointment with your sleep specialist to discuss your mask type and perhaps your machine settings. I understand not everyone can sleep with a CPAP, but at least give the equipment the same customization effort you would with give something like a new scuba regulator and explore all the settings before you toss it.
https://www.cpap.com/blog/diff... [cpap.com]
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Your getting further than me, because I've yet to be able to sleep with the mask on. My father is suggesting to try the nose cuishion, as he said he couldnt sleep with the mask, but the nose one worked a treat.
Cos if that doesnt work, I'm fucked. Whee.
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FWIW, my sleep apnea stopped when I got my nose reamed out. I wish I'd had it done a lot sooner.
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CRAP. I wrote a long thing and then wanted to look at the options (below) and BANG my reply was gone!
I got an email announcement about your response to my post. Nice!
Can't remember the exact name, but the turbinates were involved. I was absolutely unable to breathe through my nose and put off having it fixed for decades because of horror stories about the packing removal feeling like pulling your brain out your nostril Not true. No packing now, just an easy-to-remove-by-doc plastic shield. I wish I'd h
Caffeine and the machine (Score:3)
The machine provides caffeine for you, for free, so you can wake up earlier than you should and still function. Debt?
Don't worry about debt... debt is good!
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Live fast, die young. If that's what you want.
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Re: Caffeine and the machine (Score:2)
Same here
Given the choice between a long crap life and a short fulfilling life, I'll always choose the latter.
Just saw that new Doctor Strange movie (Score:2)
That's going to make this worse. Though in some reality I'm really well rested, so there's hope. lol :)
As a Buddhist (Score:4, Interesting)
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I think there's a lot of subtlety and nuance that's being glossed over here...
Noooo, really? Mind is the most amazing thing in the universe still comprehensible by humans, and really not even by them. Its next step is to be rid of the brain so it can wander through space, immaterial, like in 1950s SF. Most of what Science and Religion excoriate is that which is simply the Future winking at us over the fence. Meanwhile, Politicians, Generals, and Bankers are ossified in the status quo.
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Some close-minded, Dunning-Kruger magical thinking you got there with your unscientific conjecture.
And, it's already been proven.
https://www.jneurosci.org/cont... [jneurosci.org]
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They taught mice how to meditate?
Oh, no. Not that. I see.
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Would a damaged brain recognize itself as damaged?
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If you are waking up unassisted and refreshed, you are not in sleep debt. The bad things in TFA are for actual sleep debt.
That is, the people who wake up groggy and grumpy after the third alarm clock goes off every day so they can drag themselves into the office at an arbitrary time and be unproductive until after lunch anyway.
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If you are waking up unassisted and refreshed, you are not in sleep debt. The bad things in TFA are for actual sleep debt.
That is, the people who wake up groggy and grumpy after the third alarm clock goes off every day so they can drag themselves into the office at an arbitrary time and be unproductive until after lunch anyway.
Yup, that's pretty much my assessment. I've had many an argument with people in here that claim my amount of sleep is killing me. I'm either lucky or unlucky depending on one's outlook. One thing for certain though - I need my 5 hours.
I've wondered at times if people worrying about getting enough sleep can give them insomnia. But to the article's specifics, the concept of paying back sleep debt is a canard. You either get the sleep or you don't. In the few occasions that I have had to get by with a coup
Personal "best" (Score:2)
The longest I've ever stayed up without sleep was 5.5 days. I guess I'm screwed now but at least I've beat the puppies mentioned in the article.
Burnout (Score:5, Interesting)
Too late (Score:5, Insightful)
I hate sleep. (Score:3)
You don't get anything done. You don't learn anything new. You don't do anything fun. I might get about 5-6 hours a night. I could sleep more, and when not on a work schedule I usually do. But during the week, there's just not enough time in the day for me to work, get everything done I need or want to, and adequately unwind enough to go to sleep. Sleep is a waste of time. I hate it.
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You don't do anything fun.
I've met interesting women there but they were mostly after one thing and didn't speak. Interestingly I can't do math or read text, I can tell its words or math but it won't resolve to anything recognizable when awake.
Yeah, missing sleep comes with compound interest due til its paid off, should be obvious to anyone.
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I seldom remember my dreams. The last one of any consequence I recall was earlier this year, I dreamed about spending some time with my Dad. He passed away 4 years ago. In the dream, we were just doing normal stuff like he and I used to do together, but he was about 10 years younger than when I saw him last, still strong and healthy. It was really nice to see him again.
Re: I hate sleep. (Score:2)
I can read in dreams, but anything more than a short sentence or two devolves into nonsense. Sometimes I can do basic math and even code fragments in dreams but nothing complex.
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In all practicality, there are so many variables related to overall health and lifespan, from genetics, to diet, to environmental toxins, to sleep, that pointing to any single variable and shouting ‘this is the magic key’ to a long healthy life is just wishful thinking.
What we are all building (Score:1)
A popsicle stick Tower of Babel to the moon. Really, that's what so many countless self sacrifices and people being chewed up up by the ever roving "machine" are for.
To hell with society, to hell with people's constantly butthurt fee fees. Flying solo, ripping off the yoke put on you by other people, and making you and your family content is what really matters. Everything else is just noise.
A good sleep monitor does wonders (Score:1)
I've got borderline apnea and found the CPAP was more trouble than it was worth (just made me sleep worse, even after I found the best mask for me which was the nasal pillow discussed earlier). But, a good sleep tracking app and monitor did wonders. I've used a Pebble watch that could monitor heartbeat and movement for a long time (it finally died and now I've got a Ticwatch that also adds oxygen monitoring), and the Sleep for Android app - the key feature there is the ability to set smart alarms that wat