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Science Technology

As the Large Hadron Collider Revs Up, Physicists' Hopes Soar (nytimes.com) 124

The particle collider at CERN will soon restart. From a report: In April, scientists at the European Center for Nuclear Research, or CERN, outside Geneva, once again fired up their cosmic gun, the Large Hadron Collider. After a three-year shutdown for repairs and upgrades, the collider has resumed shooting protons -- the naked guts of hydrogen atoms -- around its 17-mile electromagnetic underground racetrack. In early July, the collider will begin crashing these particles together to create sparks of primordial energy. And so the great game of hunting for the secret of the universe is about to be on again, amid new developments and the refreshed hopes of particle physicists. Even before its renovation, the collider had been producing hints that nature could be hiding something spectacular. Mitesh Patel, a particle physicist at Imperial College London who conducts an experiment at CERN, described data from his previous runs as "the most exciting set of results I've seen in my professional lifetime."

A decade ago, CERN physicists made global headlines with the discovery of the Higgs boson, a long-sought particle, which imparts mass to all the other particles in the universe. What is left to find? Almost everything, optimistic physicists say. When the CERN collider was first turned on in 2010, the universe was up for grabs. The machine, the biggest and most powerful ever built, was designed to find the Higgs boson. That particle is the keystone of the Standard Model, a set of equations that explains everything scientists have been able to measure about the subatomic world. But there are deeper questions about the universe that the Standard Model does not explain: Where did the universe come from? Why is it made of matter rather than antimatter? What is the "dark matter" that suffuses the cosmos? How does the Higgs particle itself have mass? Physicists hoped that some answers would materialize in 2010 when the large collider was first turned on. Nothing showed up except the Higgs -- in particular, no new particle that might explain the nature of dark matter. Frustratingly, the Standard Model remained unshaken.

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As the Large Hadron Collider Revs Up, Physicists' Hopes Soar

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  • by Petersko ( 564140 ) on Monday June 13, 2022 @01:19PM (#62616138)

    Isn't it a bit disrespectful to refer to one of the great modern scientific accomplishments using imperial units? I'm not a metric snob in general. I know my height in feet, my weight in pounds, and my oven temperature settings in fahrenheit or celcius (ambi-temperous?). But this feels incorrect.

    • Well, it's msmash just cribbeding from the NY Times, so don't get your expectations up.
    • The report is from the New York Times. I assumed that they converted to miles for the sake of understanding by the largest viewership which is US readers. 27 km would mean less to those readers.
      • I suppose... but to me it seems like "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone". Dumb it down if you want it to fly in the U.S.. I don't know that it's doing them a favour.

        • The name change of a book based on dumbing down as you call it is not really like basic unit conversion. If the New York Times did an article about wheat farming "bushels" would be used. If it was about beer, "pints" would be used.
          • "dumbing down as you call it"

            Arthur Levine of Scholastic (the company that bought the U.S. distribution rights) negotiated the name change because he thought children would find the word "Philosopher" too arcane. The U.S. is apparently the only country where that concession was thought necessary. Rowling later regretted it and wished she had the power at the time to reject it.

            What would you call it?

            • by bws111 ( 1216812 )

              It wasn't because the word "philosopher" was too arcane. It was because he thought that the legend of the "philosophers stone" was unknown in the US and thus did not imply "magic". And it doesn't. I'm guessing I could find loads of references that Americans would get that would have little meaning to someone in the UK - does that mean it is 'dumbed down' to change it to a reference the UK would get? For instance, the film "Hoosiers" had to be dumbed down to "Best Shot" in the UK, because those idiots i

              • My apologies. Levine used the word "archaic" rather than arcane.

                I guess you can argue from the position of regional translation, but it is stretched when it's literally "everybody else". Think of changing the name of the movie "Best Shot" to "Exciting Basketball Movie" but just for Indiana, since the reference "shot" might not be clear enough for them to want to watch. It's not a positive implication for that populace.

                • I hate replying to myself... I apologize.

                  The other consideration is that "Philosopher's Stone" is an established term with a very long history. "Sorcerer's Stone" ads market appeal for the uneducated and removes context.

                  So yes, "dumbed down".

    • I know my height in feet, my weight in pounds, and my oven temperature settings in fahrenheit or celcius (ambi-temperous?). But this feels incorrect.

      You probably know how many horses are still tucked underneath the hood of your car too. Try not to feel so "incorrect". Ignorance is far more prevalent than you assume.

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        In Europe it's common use to kW rather than horsepower. Even in the UK that's becoming common due to the move to electric vehicles, were battery capacity is measured in kWh.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Why? I was reading an article this morning written out of the UK about an American kid who makes money on youtube. All dollar figures were in GBP, not USD. NYT is a US based publication, seems less logically for them to use metric, it's not a scientific publication by any stretch of the imagination.

    • Re:Really? 17 miles? (Score:4, Informative)

      by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:45PM (#62616438) Journal

      Isn't it a bit disrespectful to refer to one of the great modern scientific accomplishments using imperial units?

      No.

    • by jd ( 1658 )

      Besides which, we need accelerators that are 100 miles in diameter. These toy accelerators aren't going to be enough to shake up the standard model and we know that the SM is either incomplete or incorrect. (It's merely the best we have and we're going to need to look a lot harder to find anything seriously new.)

      • While we know the standard model is incomplete, what we don't know is whether a higher powered collider will shed any insight into that. Previously physicists knew what they were looking for. But they've already found all the particles predicted by the SM. At this point they're just hoping to get lucky.

        • *cough* graviton *cough*
        • While we know the standard model is incomplete, what we don't know is whether a higher powered collider will shed any insight into that. Previously physicists knew what they were looking for. But they've already found all the particles predicted by the SM. At this point they're just hoping to get lucky.

          Well they can continue to squeeze supersymmetry out of existence.

          • which also squeezes string theory out of existence, which is probably a good thing as string theory was a hysterical hype

        • by jd ( 1658 )

          Which is why increasing the power of the collider by a little bit is unlikely to answer that question. You need to increase the power by a lot, both to ensure that you're not missing new particles and to ensure that your accuracy in measuring the ones you know about is able to really test the maths and to narrow down all the constants involved with sufficient precision to be able to start answering questions about why the values are what they are.

          Once we understand what the Standard Model is actually saying

          • The recent upgrade increased the beam luminosity, mostly by making the beam cross-section smaller. That translates to more collisions during operation. Since the analysis is statistical, more events means increased resolution. This is what they are talking about when phrases like "six sigma" are used.

            Your description of "more power" is a bit fuzzy, IMHO.

            • by jd ( 1658 )

              I don't see what's fuzzy. You can't accelerate faster than the curvature for a given magnet strength will allow. So you need to reduce curvature or increase magnetic field strength. Five times the diameter is a reduction in curvature that will allow higher energy collisions than can be achieved simply by upgrading the magnets. And if you can upgrade the magnets, you can use the more powerful magnets on the larger diameter ring.

              Yes, luminosity is important and will show rarer events but it can't show events

  • > Frustratingly, the Standard Model remained unshaken.

    What, boring doesn't sell? After the pandemic et. al., we need a period of boring. Otherwise, someone will discover a particle that eats planets or something; making Covid, war, and supply problems look tame.

    • ...we need a period of boring. Otherwise, someone will discover a particle that eats planets or something.

      Given the human infection, I think we can stop pretending our host planet is doing just fine.

      We found that "particle" you're talking about. It's us.

  • I need anti-gravity, cheap energy, and faster than light travel.

    • by gtall ( 79522 )

      bet you believe in ancient aliens too.

    • by jd ( 1658 )

      Cheap energy is easy. Divert 5% of the annual subsidy for fossil fuels to fusion. We'd have fusion well within the timeframe we need to be off oil, and although it wouldn't be too cheap to meter, it would be a lot cheaper.

      • Re:Well (Score:4, Funny)

        by Cpt_Kirks ( 37296 ) on Monday June 13, 2022 @03:31PM (#62616594)

        Cheap energy is easy. Divert 5% of the annual subsidy for fossil fuels to fusion. We'd have fusion well within the timeframe we need to be off oil, and although it wouldn't be too cheap to meter, it would be a lot cheaper.

        So, about 20 years?

        • by jd ( 1658 )

          Oh, much less. The 20 years prediction is based on cutting fusion funding in real terms with respect to our understanding of what is needed, I'm suggesting increasing funding in real terms with respect to our understanding of what is needed.

          If you increase funding the way I suggested, we'll know how to build a workable fusion reactor inside of FIVE years and have built a first generation of commercial fusion reactors within fifteen.

    • I need anti-gravity, cheap energy, and faster than light travel.

      `import antigravity` will do the first for you.

  • by wakeboarder ( 2695839 ) on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:31PM (#62616396)

    "The naked guts of hydrogen atoms", this is probably the result of taking your whole micro-dosing stamp sheet at the same time.

  • But there are deeper questions about the universe that the Standard Model does not explain: Where did the universe come from? Why is it made of matter rather than antimatter? What is the "dark matter" that suffuses the cosmos? How does the Higgs particle itself have mass? Physicists hoped that some answers would materialize in 2010 when the large collider was first turned on. Nothing showed up except the Higgs -- in particular, no new particle that might explain the nature of dark matter. Frustratingly, the Standard Model remained unshaken.

    From what I've seen, the entire field of cosmology is due for a revolution. And for my money, the really interesting questions have to do with the nature of time.

    What is time?

    Ask most who are familiar with GR, and they'll tell you that time dilation results from the curvature of spacetime, which tells matter how to move. And matter informs spacetime how to curve.

    It's circular.

    When you dig in, you find that the GR geodesics that define the path of an object in motion are those that comprise the le

    • by jd ( 1658 )

      Time and space are most likely emergent properties of something more fundamental. Certainly, they are identical in nature - GR shows that much. Why time is also the chronological dimension (this is important to distinguish, as GR does show that space and time are indeed identical in other respects) is important.

      • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

        Not quite identical. We seem to be very long in time and arguably infitesimal in space. If you're one of those "flowing river" types, translated this is "we can move in time but not in space."

        • by jd ( 1658 )

          Well, one model is that electrons don't move at all - in time or in space. They exist for an instant and are replaced by another electron at a different point.

    • >What is it about matter, then, that brings about these gradients in time?

      Not matter - mass. Which is to say, energy. All energy has mass* as determined by E=mc^2 (or in the original expression, m= E/c^2). Matter just happens to be the densest concentration of energy normally seen. But take lumps of matter and antimatter with combined mass M, and seal them within a perfectly reflective and indestructible container, and the mass of the container and contents would not change at all as they annihilated

  • by mi ( 197448 ) <slashdot-2017q4@virtual-estates.net> on Monday June 13, 2022 @02:40PM (#62616424) Homepage Journal

    Every 12-14 billion years or so the scientists somewhere build a Large Hadron Collider...

    • Are you suggesting that the amount of energy that humans use to run one experiment threatens to destroy the entire universe? Considering that the experiment uses a fraction of energy a medium sized star like the Sun emits in the same time period, I would say that is not likely.
    • Not necessarily a dumb question - but I remember Kip Thorne looking into it maybe 40 years ago. There are enough ultra=high energy cosmic rays in the universe that there have been collisions with >10^21 ev energy exchange, and those haven't ended the universe....yet

      of course there could be side effects that are not noticeable at intergalactic distances that would be unpleasant in Geneva. But there is no reason to think there is a problem .
    • Nah, it's the first Galactic civilization which builds the Universal Hadron Collider every few billion years. After that the next first Gal Civ will do it again, and again.

  • Given the Russian sanctions and all, are they going to have to shut it down to keep the lights on, and the refrigerators running elsewhere in Europe?

  • Try reading Sabine Hossenfelder's recent work
    "Lost in math: how beauty leads physics astray" ISBN 9780465094257
    A fun read, if you wan't to help, see 'Lost in Math... Appendix C.'

    Hossenfelder is a theoretical physicist and research Fellow at the Frankfurt Institute for Advanced
    Studies where she leads the Superfluid Dark Matter group (per Wikipedia)

    TLDR: The premise is that the unsupported assumption that nature 'must or should' follow rules of mathematical elegance, coupled with human cognitive bias

    • by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Monday June 13, 2022 @06:31PM (#62616940) Homepage Journal

      Anyone who admits to being 'religious' (spiritual, whatever), should not be allowed to publish "scientific works", without a big red fat rationality warning, because their logic and arguments are tainted by deep and incurable delusions about the underlying nature of reality.

      The thing is that you can have that without religion, so why discriminate? Just put that notice on everything.

    • 1:29:08 is the runtime of her presentation on "How Beauty Leads Physics Astray" from the Santa Fe Institute: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
    • The premise is that the unsupported assumption that nature 'must or should' follow rules of mathematical elegance, coupled with human cognitive bias...is causing us to waste billions on these massive and unproductive experiments.

      The problem with this statement is that it's not consistent with the data. Believing that nature is mathematically elegant is what has got us this far - all of physics up to this point is more-or-less based on the assumption that we can find reasonably elegant maths to model how the universe works.

      It is also worth remembering that the "massive and unproductive experiments" found exactly what the elegant mathematical model Higgs constructed to explain mass predicted. How is this unproductive?

      The searc

    • >TLDR: The premise is that the unsupported assumption that nature 'must or should' follow rules of mathematical elegance, coupled with human cognitive bias, and our abject failure to build a culture of criticism and rational civil critique, is causing us to waste billions on these massive and unproductive experiments.

      She also raises the rather insightful point that what is considered beautiful mathematics has been skewed by what the current theories look like. So it has set up a self sustaining bias.

    • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

      You should read Hossenfelder a little closer. Her point is that "these massive... experiments" have all been *productive* because their objectives have been justified by reasonably sound predictions. Her objection is to people who insist that arguments from elegance are sufficient to predict new physics at slightly higher energies and justify building another bigger LHC at this time.

      Hossenfelder is a phenomenologist, which means she advocates looking for indirect evidence of high energy physics at lower ene

  • Another great success of LHC is largely killing off the super symmetry wanking.

  • Ho hum, more waffle, you can bin the opinion of whoever stopped drooling long enough to write this drivel along with the people who said the LHC would create a black hole and destroy the planet. It's wafflers like this who advised Max Plank in 1874 to pick another career because there was "not much left to do" in theoretical physics. That waffler was Max Plank's PROFESSOR Philipp von Jolly, just another instance where the "science" got it wrong, or at least the "main stream" science at the time.

    Charle

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