Want to read Slashdot from your mobile device? Point it at m.slashdot.org and keep reading!

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
NASA Space

NASA Releases Ridiculously Sharp Webb Space Telescope Images (gizmodo.com) 96

During a press conference Monday morning, NASA provided an update on the status of the Webb Space Telescope and released images from the telescope that put Webb's progress on dazzling display. Gizmodo reports: "I'm delighted to report that the telescope alignment has been completed with performance even better than we had anticipated," said Michael McElwain, a Webb observatory project scientist at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, in a NASA press conference. "This is an extraordinary milestone for humanity." Webb sits at an observational point called L2 nearly 1 million miles from Earth, where it will look further back in time than the Hubble Space Telescope. (Hubble will continue to operate alongside Webb once the latter is operational). [...] The preparation and testing of the telescope's science instruments (a process called commissioning) will take about two months to complete. Only once the commissioning is complete can Webb begin taking the scientific images that will define its tenure in space.

But some images are already being collected, to make sure the telescope is functioning properly. Webb's coldest instrument -- the Mid-Infrared Instrument (MIRI) -- recently took a test image of the Large Magellanic Cloud, a satellite galaxy of the Milky Way that was previously imaged by the now-retired Spitzer Space Telescope's Infrared Array Camera. Webb's image of the same region makes Spitzer's look like a finger painting, showing interstellar gas clearly distributed across the star field. The stars -- blots, in Spitzer's view -- are seven-pointed beacons of light in the MIRI test.

Webb's next steps will focus on taking images of its science targets, known as early release observations. These will not only be the first images of Webb science targets, but they will be the first images processed into full color. (Webb sees the cosmos in the infrared and near-infrared wavelengths, but the images will be translated into visible light.) Klaus Pontoppidan, a Webb project scientist at the Space Telescope Science Institute, said in the briefing that the chief differences between the most recent images and the ones to come are that the former were taken to test the telescope's ability to see clearly, whereas the latter will test the telescope's ability to image science targets. Pontoppidan wouldn't elaborate on what Webb team will capture in the early release observations -- the targets are a "surprise," he said.

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

NASA Releases Ridiculously Sharp Webb Space Telescope Images

Comments Filter:
  • But there's just a tiny part of me that wishes it was also a full insted of partial optical band wavelength telescope too so it could fully replace hubble. Obviously they had their engineering reasons not to but I wonder - just how hard would it have been to add that extra 0.2um so it could see into the blue instead of stopping at yellow given it has a huge bandwidth up to 28um.

    • Unfortunately it has a limited life-span, it can't replace Hubble, so it is focused on what it can do better than any other telescope, infrared.

      • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @11:09AM (#62519654)

        Hubble is being replaced by Nancy Grace Roman. It's one of those Hubble-duplicate mirrors the spooks gave NASA. It will have about the same resolution as Hubble but cover a much larger field of view, and has all new modern instruments.

        If you're looking for just-Hubble-but-bigger then you've got two main problems: 1) Hubble has done a lot of the interesting science in that area and 2) adaptive optics cancel much of the advantages space telescopes have in the visible spectrum. There's not a lot of point in making a bigger-than-Hubble space telescope at the moment because we can (and are) making holy-shit-bigger-than-Hubble ground telescopes.

        • There's not a lot of point in making a bigger-than-Hubble space telescope at the moment because we can (and are) making holy-shit-bigger-than-Hubble ground telescopes.

          We are- and there are huge benefits they can provide via adaptive optics and their ridiculous aperture sizes, however, there is as-yet no ground telescope that can match hubble imagery.

          You can fix turbulent refraction in the atmosphere. You can't fix its refractive index, as a whole, though.
          Both better ground telescopes and better space telescopes are both worth pursuing, with different pros and cons for both.

          • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

            In the visible? The current crop of 10 m telescopes more than compete with Hubble, and the thirty metre ones coming will blow it away.

            Space telescopes are definitely worth pursuing, but pursuing for their unique advantages: wavelengths that don't get to the ground (like JWST), the Roman telescope's coronograph, and hopefully in the future star shades, space-based ultra long baseline interferometry, and eventually enormous telescopes assembled in space that could never support their own weight on a planet.

            • Ya, the 10m scopes are very good in certain circumstances- like when there is a guide star within angular range of what they want to image.
              30m scopes will be even better, but again, there are limits to where the adaptive optics can be utilized in the sky.

              And remember- we're comparing them against a 2.4m reflector in orbit.
              • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

                Sure, but science money unfortunately isn't infinite. If you want, say, a 5 m Hubble you need to trade somewhere between sixteen and forty (probably on the high end) Gran Telescopio Canariases for it.

                I think they made a good choice with the Roman telescope. It's sixteen Telescopio Canariases, but it can do most or all of what Hubble did with 100 times the field of view so you can get some solid statistics, and also directly image exoplanets.

                Now, if people would skip buying Hallowe'en costumes for their pets

                • Oh sure, in bang for buck it's a no brainer. Ground telescope for days.
                  However, we will reach a point where it becomes unreasonable to make larger reflectors on the ground (even with newer segmented deformable mirrors), and still reasonable to send much smaller segmented mirrors into orbit.
                  Synthetic aperture is awesome, but comes with a necessary reduction in sensitivity, so we're really stuck comparing monolithic (segmented or otherwise) reflectors.
                  A 10m scope in orbit will outperform a 30m scope on the
                  • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

                    Hopefully by the time it becomes impractical to build bigger telescopes on the ground we just start building them in orbit. Imagine an orbital casting and polishing factory turning out 100 m mirror segments.

    • by zeeky boogy doog ( 8381659 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @02:39AM (#62518710)
      The development of modern adaptive optic systems with image resolutions comparable to Hubble (or in the case of the Keck interferometer, vastly superior in the NIR), while using segmented light buckets 5 times its size or more, means that there is very little benefit from launching an optical telescope into space at the present.

      JWST must be in space because earth's atmosphere is utterly opaque to nearly all the bands it observes in (red to warm thermal IR).

      Moreover, absent a spectacular jump in diffraction limit resolution (think a spaceborne optical interferometer using Keck-size mirrors in a kilometer-size triangle), I think it is felt that the two major targets of scientific observation - protoplanetary systems and the early universe - both require infrared observation. Protoplanetary disks because shortwave radiation is completely scattered by dust, so that we can only image embedded objects inside dusty disks using IR all the way out to mm wave radiation. The early universe because metric expansion has turned everything far out there red, or IR, or further.
      • by Viol8 ( 599362 )

        Sure, I accept all that. I'm just wondering how hard it would have been to extend its bandwidth by another 0.2um given how wide it is already. I'm not suggesting sacrifice some of its its IR ability.

        • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @03:11PM (#62520634)

          Pretty hard. Each NIRCam module (there are two) is basically two cameras glued together, observing in two bands, 0.6-2.3 um and 2.4-5.0 um. To get something approximating a colour image you'd have to add two more, in the green and blue. But the big problem is that gold optical coatings have reflectivity that drops off pretty precipitously around 0.5-0.5 um:

          https://www.thorlabs.com/image... [thorlabs.com]

          • Astronomical cameras usually don't create color images by taking exposures with 3 sensors simultaneously. They have one sensor, and a filter wheel. Each of NIRCam's sensors have 12 filters available, some wideband (comparable to red, green, blue), some narrowband to see specific emissions. So NIRcam can create color images already.

            • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

              The OP was talking about visual spectrum so I meant "colour image" as in visible spectrum, three bands close to what our eyes see. NIRCam is missing green and blue. I should have been more specific.

              I think NIRcam actually can take images simultaneously (but just two of the same target?) because it has dichroic beam splitters.

              And yes, there's a pretty good chance none of the famous Hubble images that come to anyone's mind are actually red, green and blue channels anyway.

      • by jd ( 1658 ) <imipak AT yahoo DOT com> on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @04:41AM (#62518834) Homepage Journal

        Light pollution (thanks to Musk)? I'd call that a big reason. Also, adaptive optics on the ground will do a fair bit, but Earth's atmosphere is increasingly humid and polluted. AO will counter humidity some, but you can't correct for pollution. Since this will vary with angle (since the amount of atmosphere you go through increases), tracking and AO gets complicated. Then there's the geopolitics, as shown in Hawaii. You can't Keep It Simple and you can't be sure of keeping it at all. And then there's the sun. It means you are limited in time when you can view.

        The atmosphere isn't merely problematic due to distortions, though. If you want to study absorption lines in the atmosphere of another planet, it's quite a lot tougher if our own atmosphere absorbs visible light at those same frequencies.

        Telescopes in space aren't on owned property, can be rotated to any angle without having to constantly compensate for atmosphere, humidity or pollution (all of which will vary by time and by the angle you're looking through the atmosphere at), and can be used all of the time. Rotation plus constant use is also very handy for deep field work.

        That's a lot of benefit.

        You can also use AO in space to counter limitations in the mirrors. Having AO to fix fabrication issues and distortions introduced to due launch vibrations would certainly help.

        • by jabuzz ( 182671 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @04:59AM (#62518852) Homepage

          On the other hand thanks to Musk you could in the near future launch an ~8m primary mirror space telescope and not have the artefacts from it being separate panels.

          Given the JWT took 25 years to get into space NASA and associated agencies should start planing for such a beast now.

          You could even think bigger and do an even larger folding mirror telescope in JWT style.

          • But why? Before you jump to a solution consider the problem you're trying to solve.

            • by jabuzz ( 182671 )

              Because a bigger telescope is better, and as the previous poster made clear some observations are difficult to do on the ground. Nobody suggests that you need to work out what problem you want to solve by designing a faster computer. It is taken as a given that a faster computer is useful. In the same manner a larger telescope is useful.

              There are some plans for large space telescopes but they are being designed around a standard 5m faring. That's banana nuts with SpaceX's Starship going to be ready long (ev

      • You seem to know your stuff.
        Can you explain how the octagonal star rays in the high resolution picture come to be? If that is an effect of the telescope's optics, a physical property of the star or light itself, or some other reason?
        There's also a fractal aspect to them.

        • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

          Hexagonal. It's due to JWST being composed of hexagonal mirror sections. The four long diffraction spikes are from the secondary mirror support trusses.

          • Are they going to subtract the diffraction spikes out in software soon?
            • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

              Probably, at least for some of them. You could do it yourself too. Deconvolution is pretty simple but fun to play with.

          • I'm counting 8 rays on those stars...

            • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

              If you zoom in on one of the bright stars you can see that the central bright spot looks like a slightly blurry hexagon, with each face having a sort of fleur de lis or club (from cards) shape coming out of it. Then there are four big spikes in each vertical and horizontal direction (the horizontal ones line up with the clubs and the vertical ones fall in between. In between the four big spikes are arrays of fainter spikes.

              I misspoke, JWST only has three support trusses for the secondary mirror. The extra

        • They are the telescope's equivalent of the Airy disk.

          Geometric optics suggests that a (correctly focused) telescope would focus an incoming plane wave (parallel wavefront, light from an infinitely distant source - a star) to a point. Quantum mechanics tells us that this isn't possible, and instead the best-focused image that can be generated from circular optics is called the Airy disk. It looks like a central big Gaussian bump with smaller ripples surrounding it, and the diffraction limit is defined in
          • Holy crap, I have to read that a few more times to understand it. Thanks for the effort. 8-)

            You also mention hexagonal, but I'm counting 8 rays on those stars.

            • Yes. 6 large spikes from the mirror edges, 2 smaller spikes from the supports of the secondary mirror: the struts cause 4 spikes, 2 of which are lined up with the 6 large spikes.

      • There's more to imagery than angular resolution.

        Interferometry offers excellent angular resolution per dollar, but it's also subject to rather poor sensitivity. You can math away the missing photons, but you math away the information they contained as well. Interferometry is not a replacement for standard aperture observation. It's another tool.
    • I think the main point was to solve the problem of how to receive infra-red with adequate sensitivity to see the most distant objects, that have the most red-shifted spectra. There is nothing particularly magic about the narrow region of the electromagnetic spectrum that we can perceive with our eyes. My father spent his life observing radio sources in outer space, using terrestrial parabolic dishes. There is a lot of interesting stuff out there, that you won't see with a conventional telescope.

    • by Calinous ( 985536 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @03:24AM (#62518764)

      As the Universe is expanding, far away stars seem "redder" than closer stars.
      As such, while JWST is partially "blind" for close stars, it can see the "red-shifted" and "infrared shifted" radiation generated.
      Adding another sensor would make the alignment of mirrors even more complex than it is now, and the existing sensors were proven valuable enough not to be replaced.
      Also, there is no value in putting an optical telescope in a Lagrange point. A new Hubble in Earth orbit would have been a small fraction of the cost.

      • Interesting, what is the point of putting the JWT at a Lagrange point?

        • by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @08:25AM (#62519138) Journal

          Interesting, what is the point of putting the JWT at a Lagrange point?

          It can orbit the Lagrange point far enough out that it's never shadowed by the sun or moon, and with the Earth and Moon a good distance away. This means that it sees very little thermal variation and the small amount that does come from the earth can be shielded with a fixed shield.

          Thermal expansion etc would play hell with alignment and they need to keep the IR sensor very very cold.

        • The "solar" side of JWST reaches around up to 20 degrees Celsius (some 300 Kelvin, or - lets call it 70 Fahrenheit.
          The "normal" infrared sensors should work at around 50 Kelvin (lets call it -220 Celsius). You can get there by keeping it in the shade of the multiple layer, tennis-court sized parasol.
          The "cold" "deep infrared" sensor must be cooled down even more, so it has a refrigeration system.

          Now, the issue with these is that - basically - once they "look" into the Sun, they're burnt.
          So, JWST must stay "

    • But there's just a tiny part of me that wishes it was also a full insted of partial optical band wavelength telescope too so it could fully replace hubble.

      The most fantastic images released by the Hubble are actually false colour images, such as this one of one of the Pillars of Creation in the Eagle Nebula https://esahubble.org/images/o... [esahubble.org] The image is actually made up of largely infra-red response.

      Space is actually incredibly boring in the human visible band.

      • Space is actually incredibly boring in the human visible band.

        In spite of your first paragraph being entirely correct- this is not.

        I've done real-color space imagery for a long time (as soon as I could afford the hardware, really). Obviously, I don't have the Hubble's sensitivity, but I do have good tracking hardware and software, and space is still quite amazing in the human visible band.
        The pillars of creation, while not as fabulously colorful as that, are still wildly impressive.

    • by Potor ( 658520 ) <farker1@gm[ ].com ['ail' in gap]> on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @06:06AM (#62518924) Journal
      Colorized photos will be released for public consumption [phys.org], so you''ll just have to hold your horses.
    • The mirror is coated with gold. Great for reflecting IR, but not so much for seeing anything in the blue region.
    • JWST was not designed to necessarily replace Hubble's functionality; it was designed to succeed Hubble in the IR range where Hubble was weaker. Engineering wise it is a specialist instrument focusing on IR (0.5 to 28 microns) whereas Hubble is more of a generalist with multiple EM detectors. Detecting more of the IR spectrum would be somewhat counter to this specialist role.
  • Though the Webb telescope images in the article did show up many more sources than previous telescopes, I could not help noticing that bright sources produced arms of light, with four-fold symmetry. Is this something that you just can't avoid with an optical system? Optics is not my field of expertise, so I am just asking, in case somebody knows the answer.

    The fact that we have an idea of a star shape, as observed by the naked eye, or magnified by a telescope, indicates that this kind of optical artefact is

    • by hackertourist ( 2202674 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @03:42AM (#62518784)

      Those lines are called diffraction spikes. They are caused by the edges of the mirror segments, and by the 3 supports for the secondary mirror. Light diffracts on each edge.

      They are hard to avoid. Round mirrors won't cause diffraction spikes, their diffraction shows up as a diffuse disk around the star.
      There are telescope designs with an off-axis secondary, but those tend to introduce distortion.

      The diffraction spikes are worst for very bright objects, much fainter for dim objects, and basically not there for diffuse objects like galaxies.

      Many of the alignment images are overexposed, and the light curve is logarithmic, to make the spikes as bright as possible, because there's information on how good the mirror alignment is in those spikes. Science images won't be overexposed or use this light curve.

      • This JWST spike question is filling up inboxes across the globe....
      • There is a design for segmented mirrors without diffraction spikes. There are some disadvantages though in total reflective surface area versus effective diameter, and JWST was limited in total diameter (it was launched with parts of the main mirror folded).

      • Those lines are called diffraction spikes. They are caused by the edges of the mirror segments, and by the 3 supports for the secondary mirror. Light diffracts on each edge.

        So basically the same as the way my cataracts cause me to see headlights and street lights with the same spikes around them.

    • by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @05:18AM (#62518872)

      If you're interested in exactly what causes the shape of the diffraction spikes the other poster was talking about there's a good article which explains it in great detail.
      Here's an image excerpt which explains the shape: https://bigthink.com/wp-conten... [bigthink.com]
      And here the full article: https://bigthink.com/starts-wi... [bigthink.com]
      The Hubble also has diffraction spikes which are the result of only the spider holding the secondary mirror: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] as opposed to the JWST which is the result of both the shape and layout of the mirrors as well as the spider.

      This isn't limited to space telescopes either. E.g. a Newtonian telescope where the secondary mirror is held in place by a spider produces diffraction spikes as well: https://www.astrobin.com/7twta... [astrobin.com]
      Those same diffraction spikes are absent from classic refractor telescopes: https://www.astrobin.com/1gzcf... [astrobin.com]

    • Dr Becky explained the lines. [youtu.be] She goes over why they occur and what astronomers can do about them.
    • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

      You've basically got a choice between diffraction spikes, chromatic aberration and witchcraft mirror making.

      Refractive telescopes, where the light goes through lenses, don't need any support in the light path, but refraction is wavelength dependent so you get chromatic aberration. There are also problems with focal length and various other things.

      Large mirrors are much easier to make and you don't have chromatic aberration, but you need some way to support a secondary mirror in front of the primary. Those s

      • The diffraction spikes really only show up when you're looking at something really bright.

        I would have thought that the problem would be trying to observe a dim object at a small angular displacement from a bright object. The diffraction spikes from the bright object "splurge" over the stuff you are trying to observe. From what other people have posted on this subject, the artefacts are not due to imperfections in the construction of the telescope, but would occur in some form in a "perfect" instrument of a particular size.

        The problem appears to be an instrument being dazzled by strong sources i

        • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

          That could be a problem, but if you wanted to image something close to a bright object you could rotate your telescope to put the object you're interested in between spikes. The JWST also has the hexagonal diffraction artifacts from the mirror segments, which would be harder to move out of the way, but that really only limits a few of the observations you can make.

          You always have diffraction, you just get to choose what form it takes. A good telescope is "diffraction limited" meaning that its resolution is

      • by pacinpm ( 631330 )

        You've basically got a choice between diffraction spikes, chromatic aberration and witchcraft mirror making.

        You could keep secondary mirror in place using magnets. Which could go as "witchcraft".

        • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

          Permanent magnets are definitely witchcraft, but you can't actually hold something in place with a static magnetic field (there's a proof and everything). So you're probably use electromagnets, which are just plain old special relativity.

          Updated list:

          diffraction spikes, chromatic aberration, witchcraft, or special relativity.

  • Error in summary (Score:5, Informative)

    by hackertourist ( 2202674 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @03:44AM (#62518788)

    JWST does not "sit at L2", it is in a 300,000 x 800,000 km orbit around L2. This wide orbit ensures that the telescope is never shadowed by Earth or the Moon.

    • Is it possible to (ballistically) orbit Lagrange points? Interesting, I didn't know that. TBH I learned orbital mechanics from Kerbal Space Program, and badly at that...
      • They have to do a small trajectory correction maneuver every 2-3 weeks. This orbit is unstable, so without fuel, a spacecraft would start drifting away from the L2 point.
        This type of orbit is called a halo orbit, IIRC.

      • L2 is unstable in "close" - "far" localization, but is stable in the other two axes. It stays "closer" to Earth than L2, and drifts "close" to Earth. The boosts send it back in the "almost L2 but on Earth side" position.
        If it goes "past" L2, all is lost - it can only boost on the face without the telescope, and it can't turn towards Sun for reasons of burning the infrared detectors.

  • > seven-pointed beacons of light in the MIRI test. There are, of course, eight artefactual "rays" in the illustrated MIRI 7.7 Â image, (actually more but eight principal ones).
  • There is NO decent reason not to publish each and every frame, image, partial and pixel the telescope has taken and will take. It should go straight to a dissemination server for public access. The more people who can see it the more science can be done.
    • Re:Release them all (Score:4, Informative)

      by hackertourist ( 2202674 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @08:30AM (#62519162)

      They will do just that, at the Mikulski Archive for Space Telescopes [stsci.edu]. There will be a period of exclusive access for most observations (so the astronomer whoe requested the observation gets the first chance to examine the data).
      All of the alignment and calibration images (more than 50k) will be released at the end of the commissioning process.

    • They don't want to show the Martians mooning the camera?

    • Re:Release them all (Score:4, Interesting)

      by UnknowingFool ( 672806 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @11:01AM (#62519626)

      NASA does that eventually. It just takes time as the underlying data can be huge. These PR friendly images are also heavily processed. MBs of data or a photo: Which do you think is easier to put in a press release?

      Incidentally, I was talking to a moon conspiracist and one of their claims is that NASA has never released the moon photos that the astronauts took on the surface. The NASA photos were too perfect and that "real" photos would contain mistakes: lighting issues, framing problems, etc. I was able to pull up the NASA archive online and show him all the photos. Some of them were obvious mistakes like taking a photo of complete darkness. Bear in mind these were the days of film and the astronauts had to be careful with each photo as they couldn't run to the store to get more film. Other photos had bad framing and bad lighting. When NASA released these photos in PR releases, they do basic editing like cropping and light balancing.

  • The middle section of the article has a before/after image comparison. It's roughly the same as someone who puts on an everyday piece of eyewear before driving, maybe 2 diopters? Is it the approx. improvement in resolution? Somehow I assumed it'd be like getting the right side image from just a small speck on the left side image. There's also a lot more glare than on the left, which I guess could be computationally eliminated

    • What are you calling "glare"? The bright effect of the stars? That's just the general nature of optics. Changes in resolution do not affect the bright objects from blooming. Both images are diffraction limited at their respective wavelengths. But quite critically the JWST is diffraction limited to 2um while the Spitzer is diffraction limited only to 5.4um. What that means is that JWST can still take tac sharp images at 2um while the Spitzer produces images that look pretty bad at those wavelengths (much wor

    • It's not so much a before/after as that would imply it can from the same telescope. The left image came from Spitzer which had either 256x256 pixels or 128x128 pixels depending on the instrument. Webb has 4 megapixel which is 2048x2048 if they used the term correctly. Also it is not glare. That is just as good as Spitzer could take.
      • For the short-wavelength channel, NIRCam uses 4 detectors that are 2048x2048 each. The long-wavelength channel has 1 detector.

C makes it easy for you to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes that harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg. -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Working...