Patients With Covid and Flu Double the Risk of Dying, Say Scientists (theguardian.com) 81
Covid-19 patients who have been hospitalised should also be routinely tested for flu, researchers have said. The call was made after the publication of a paper in the medical journal the Lancet that revealed having both conditions more than doubles the risk of a patient dying. From a report: Scientists also discovered that individuals who had contracted both Sars-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, and influenza viruses were more than four times more likely to require ventilation support and 2.4 times more likely to die than if they just had Covid-19. "We found that the combination of Covid-19 and flu viruses is particularly dangerous," said Professor Kenneth Baillie of Edinburgh University. "We expect that Covid-19 will circulate with flu, increasing the chance of co-infections. That is why we should change our testing strategy for Covid-19 patients in hospital and test for flu much more widely."
The study looked at more than 305,000 hospitalised patients with Covid-19 and involved researchers from Edinburgh University, Liverpool University, Imperial College London and Leiden University in the Netherlands. A total of 6,965 patients were found to have had Covid-19, while 227 also had the influenza virus. These individuals experienced significantly more severe outcomes, researchers found. "We were surprised that the risk of death more than doubled when people were infected by both flu and Covid-19 viruses," said Professor Calum Semple of Liverpool University. "It is now very important that people get fully vaccinated and boosted against both viruses, and not leave it until it is too late."
The study looked at more than 305,000 hospitalised patients with Covid-19 and involved researchers from Edinburgh University, Liverpool University, Imperial College London and Leiden University in the Netherlands. A total of 6,965 patients were found to have had Covid-19, while 227 also had the influenza virus. These individuals experienced significantly more severe outcomes, researchers found. "We were surprised that the risk of death more than doubled when people were infected by both flu and Covid-19 viruses," said Professor Calum Semple of Liverpool University. "It is now very important that people get fully vaccinated and boosted against both viruses, and not leave it until it is too late."
I'm fine (Score:3)
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vaccinated.
if not.
damn.
that is a hell of a public stance
A good reason to wear masks (Score:3)
I'm still masking up at the grocery store and the like, not for me, but for others. I'm fully vaxxed and will eventually get another booster, and while my risk is low all that Means I'm high risk for being an asymptomatic carrier.
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Mask wearers are “dramatically less likely” to get a severe case of Covid-19:
https://www.inverse.com/mind-b... [inverse.com]
Yes, absolutely you can still get COVID-19 with a mask. You are much less likely to get a severe case.
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The second link in the article sends you to a JAMA research paper that gives data.
The only one basing their post on their feelings is you.
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That's an interesting form of selective quoting going on there. Almost as if you couldn't deal with the data, and yourself tried to invoke "feelings" as a response.
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I can formulate any hypothesis, really, any, and then find at least a hundred sciencey articles "proving" that hypothesis.
Wanna try?
Pretend caffeine caused heart attacks. Search for studies confirming that.
Now try the opposite, caffeine preventing heart attacks. Look at how there's a thousand studies proving that.
"Reproducibility crisis".
Also, if masks would dramatically reduce severe cases, we would not have had severe cases in most of Europe for the winter. No one here skips the mask mandates. Really. I k
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You need to take a statistics class. It will teach you about the fallacy you just fell into.
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I did, in fact, at a regular German uni, as my major, with excellent grades and a good thesis. Unless I was able to fool a dozen profs, your argument is completely idiotic. (And if I did fool a dozen profs, I can't be that dumb, can I?)
And I am tired of people who cannot state their argument in clear words, facts and with supporting statements. It is an archetype of the political left that has been so pervasive that it is turned into copypastas and memes, and yet the leftist commentators CANNOT for the life
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I did, in fact, at a regular German uni, as my major, with excellent grades and a good thesis. Unless I was able to fool a dozen profs, your argument is completely idiotic. (And if I did fool a dozen profs, I can't be that dumb, can I?)
OK, so why are you so bad at reading scientific papers? What's your problem?
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jfc
You know that influenza particle size is on par with c19, right? Meaning the masks that didn't work for c19 won't work for influenza. The only reason influenza virtually disappeared in 2020 had nothing to do with masks or even viral competition, but rather more to do with the fact that the tests couldn't differentiate between c19 and influenza.
Credible Citation, please?
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A good reason to wear masks even cloth ones. They protect others from the flu
Citation needed.
I just happen to have one from the CDC [cdc.gov] that says you are wrong.
"In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks"
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Well, it seems to be a bit more complicated than that though. The same link also says:
In lower-income settings, it is more likely that reusable cloth masks will be used rather than disposable medical masks because of cost and availability (38). There are still few uncertainties in the practice of face mask use, such as who should wear the mask and how long it should be used for. In theory, transmission should be reduced the most if both infected members and other contacts wear masks, but compliance in uninfected close contacts could be a problem (12,34). Proper use of face masks is essential because improper use might increase the risk for transmission (39). Thus, education on the proper use and disposal of used face masks, including hand hygiene, is also needed.
You could also look at the CDCs guidelines on using mask to prevent the flu. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/profes... [cdc.gov]
It says, in a healthcare setting:
During periods of increased acute respiratory infections in the community, coughing patients and anyone suspected of having influenza should wear a mask at all times until they are isolated in a private room.
In a non-health care setting:
Persons who are diagnosed with influenza by a physician or who have a febrile respiratory illness during a period of increased influenza activity in the community should remain at home until the fever is resolved for 24 hours (without fever-reducing medications) and the cough is resolving to avoid exposing other members of the public. If such symptomatic persons cannot stay home during the acute phase of their illness, consideration should be given to having them wear a mask in public places when they may have close contact with other persons.
So it seems that cloth mask are not best. But it you think you may have the flu and you still need to go out; you should probably mask up.
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A good reason to wear masks even cloth ones. They protect others from the flu
Citation needed. I just happen to have one from the CDC [cdc.gov] that says you are wrong. "In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks"
That was from the start of the COVID pandemic. Since then, the combination of mask wearing and social distancing drove H1N1 influenza to the brink of extinction. Even the CDC gets things wrong sometimes.
Also, the reason that they got it wrong was pretty obvious even at the time, and lots of folks rightfully criticized that analysis. What the CDC did was was a pooled analysis of previous studies. The problem is that there had never been any actual previous studies of community mask use. None. Instead,
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So that's why the CDC came to the (wrong) conclusions that they did early on. They were trying to use masking in response to an already sick household member as a proxy for masking in community situations where exposure might potentially occur in the future, and those two things just aren't similar enough for such comparisons to be valid.
Perfect analysis!
Somebody with Mod points, Mod Parent INFORMATIVE!
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"In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks"
Yeah, I've seen all those people with loose, cheap surgical masks under the nose claiming they're "wearing masks".
Around here we're required to wear N95/FFP2 masks.
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That is definitely a good reason for the world population to continue wearing masks forever. And why not? You already cover your anus, and your face hole is basically the just other end of it. It's also very convenient. Since I'm masked all the time, I don't even need to bathe anymore.
Other things help, too. Like staying home when you're sick, washing hands, and not coughing on people. Things we could ordinarily call "common sense".
Am I literally the only anime nerd here? (Score:2)
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Yeah, that's pretty much it. Though i suspect the right-wing troll majority on here is really just a few people with multiple accounts, like your famous stalker.
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I see people alone in their cars with masks on. This isn't political. It's a mental illness. It would be like wearing a condom all the time because you're afraid of STDs.
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I've worn a mask in the car before. When you're not confusingly outraged by it, you tend to forget that you're wearing one.
I should also point out that wearing a mask has absolutely nothing to do with fear. We've been saying since the beginning that we wear masks to reduce the risk to others. I wear a mask to protect the people around me, should I be an asymptomatic carrier, not to protect myself. Though it does afford some level of protection, that isn't the primary motivation.
Some people seem to have
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Masks are ok against covid, but they are REALLY good against the flu.
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Clearly the medical system really fell down in huge way, and killed a lot of people shunting them off to the covid wards rather than pumping them full of anti-botics and sending them on their way to make room for others.
In what world is treating a virus with antibiotics been effective? That is like treating a muscle tear in the leg by applying a bandage on the arm. Also you seem to be advocating that the medical system should do little for people who were at the most risk of death.
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a relatively benign virus like covid;
False.
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Azithromycin doesn't contain zinc.
The chemical formula is C38H72N2O12. Carbon, Hydrogen, Nitrogen and Oxygen? Sure. But there's no Zinc.
Stop getting your information from social media. Go look at the chemical formula and structure for yourself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Far Side cartoon of dog cocktail party (Score:2)
The conversation suddenly stops when a dog tells his friend that he was at the vet and was diagnosed with worms. And also with COVID.
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OMG, tell me this is a joke... (Score:1)
The call was made after the publication of a paper in the medical journal the Lancet that revealed having both conditions more than doubles the risk of a patient dying.
Please, somebody, tell me that this is a joke. Tell me that they didn't have to do a fucking study to say if you catch two different diseases at the same time then it increases your risk of dying.
They had to examine 305,000 patients to tell them this?
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Tell me that they didn't have to do a fucking study to say if you catch two different diseases at the same time then it increases your risk of dying.
Other studies show that having Flu and Covid while driving drunk triples your risk of dying.
"Two infections worse than one" sounds trivial (Score:2)
They could probably also recommend checking for West Nile or Dengue infections, because adding a third and fourth infection would likely make things even worse.
But is that more than a trivial result? If somebody is admitted to a hospital with a fracture from falling, would it surprise anyone
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It seems not surprising that somebody whose immune system is struggling to fight one infection to the extent that hospitalization becomes necessary is even more likely to struggle with two infections at the same time.
What's surprising is that there were enough people who have both to even measure this. Viral interference should significantly reduce your odds of catching COVID while sick with influenza and vice versa because your immune system is so amped up.
My guess is that if they analyzed the data further, they would also find a high correlation between influenza-COVID coinfection and immunodeficiency.
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It seems not surprising that somebody whose immune system is struggling to fight one infection to the extent that hospitalization becomes necessary is even more likely to struggle with two infections at the same time.
What's surprising is that there were enough people who have both to even measure this. Viral interference should significantly reduce your odds of catching COVID while sick with influenza and vice versa because your immune system is so amped up.
My guess is that if they analyzed the data further, they would also find a high correlation between influenza-COVID coinfection and immunodeficiency.
Interesting point!
Double of infinitesimal is what, again? (Score:1)
Total world COVID deaths: about 6 million. https://www.worldometers.info/... [worldometers.info]
Basically, at this point everyone has had it at least once, a non-trivial number more than once (the CASES number on that page is DETECTED cases).
So let's say conservatively that the number of actual covid cases over 2 years is what, 9 billion?
So that's an overall death rate of what, 0.00067?
7 hundredths of a percent.
DOUBLED, you say? 14 hundredths of a percent?
https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/al... [nsc.org]
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I think its quite reasonable to be believe that the number of undetected cases is much higher than undetected deaths because people are much more likely to be tested, well at least in the first world. Where an asymptomatic case may well not be.
That being said I do that math on unreported cases makes no sense since you can make up whatever numbers you want.
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Sigh.
Sure, I'll explain it again.
CASE fatality rate takes the number of cases against the number of deaths. But that's DETECTED CASES.
Except, in fact, the vast HUGE number of people that get Covid don't even display symptoms, get sick, or go see a doctor. Do you go to a doctor everytime you have the slight sniffles? No, obviously not.
So researchers have to estimate the number of people actually infected, assuming some number don't ever get tested. If you look at CDC paperwork before the panic, typically
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Well I guess as long as you're fine with heavy restrictions that we've had over the last couple years to keep the cases and deaths low then it's nothing to worry about
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So let's say conservatively that the number of actual covid cases over 2 years is what, 9 billion?
Translation: "Let me make up some bullshit numbers and you accept them so that I pretend I've proven my point without actually having any actual data that shows I'm right."
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Translation: I don't have any rebuttal, so I'm just going to make an angry post when someone says something that feels bad, man.
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Total world COVID deaths: about 6 million. https://www.worldometers.info/... [worldometers.info]
Basically, at this point everyone has had it at least once, a non-trivial number more than once (the CASES number on that page is DETECTED cases).
So let's say conservatively that the number of actual covid cases over 2 years is what, 9 billion?
So that's an overall death rate of what, 0.00067?
7 hundredths of a percent.
DOUBLED, you say? 14 hundredths of a percent?
https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/al... [nsc.org]
I haven't had it.
But then, I have three Pfizer doses in me (soon to be a fourth, I guess), wear decent KN95 masks in Public, restrict people coming into the house, and have groceries delivered when cases spike.
It also helps that I am retired; so there is little to drag me out of the house for the past 2 years. But at my age, and with at least 2 comorbidities, I am more than willing to play it safe for a while longer.
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I'm 55.
Overweight.
I've had it at least twice. I think once more early on.
One of them wasn't fun, it was a bad case of the flu.
Oh, and I've had three vaccines (orig, second, then booster) because people who dispute vaccines are idiots. I wear a mask in public when there's anyone within about 50' because even if I think this is nonsense, it doesn't hurt me to support my fellow citizens.
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Which corners were cut? They had all the same testing and approval of others. There aren't reported deaths from the mRNA vaccines.
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For starters: https://www.bmj.com/content/37... [bmj.com]
and if you want more: https://battlepenguin.com/poli... [battlepenguin.com]
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I guess the more important question is do you have any evidence that lab with questionable practices would not have been used or wasn't used in other vaccines. Probably not.
The other link talks about Ivermectin which apart from some fraudulent studies has been shown to be ineffective so I stopped reading right there. If you want people to take you seriously, you can't include snake oil treatments in the first paragraph of your website.
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Look, I gave you evidence. The 2nd link is an article I wrote and it has TONS of sources at the bottom, including several legitimate Ivermectin studies. If you can't even entertain the idea you could be wrong and read the full article without stopping at the first thing you think is wrong, I'm not sure there's any we we can even have a rational discussion. You're like a Christian who refuses to entertaining anything other than your God.
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The latest research [marketwatch.com] shows that ivermectin is not effective at treating covid. It's an anti-parasite drug and has been shown to help people in areas of the world where parasites are more common which is why some studies show improvement. There's no point in reading further in an article that uses either out-of-date, inaccurate, or fraudulent information in its first paragraph. I wouldn't bother reading a source that started off saying the Earth is square either.
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You literally have made zero argument. ad hominem
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https://www.reuters.com/world/... [reuters.com]
8 cases of myocarditis. 8. Let that number sink in. Meanwhile, we've buried or burned about a million corpses of people who died from covid:
https://www.worldometers.info/... [worldometers.info]
Feel free to skip the vaccine. I'm actually opposed to vaccine mandates. I support letting stupid people kill themselves through their own stupidity. Preferably before you reproduce, but afterwards will do. I pretty sure that all of you vaccine deniers have this fant
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Sounds good. Until you consider someone like my brother who was undergoing chemo and radiation therapies after the vaccines became widely available, was unable to take the vaccines himself, and was put at unnecessary risk by people who refused to get the vaccine.
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Unfortunately, a massive number of people are simply idiots, and a much smaller group of people (Carlson, Jones, Coulter, Rogan, and about 25% of the Republican party) have figured out how to sell misinformation to that group of idiots and profit off it. So, at least
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...in children. It's skipping the thousands in adults. .. and 8 children getting a serious heart condition (there is no such thing as Mild myocarditis .. these kids literally cannot do any sports or running or even walking fast for 6~8 months. Let that set in for a disease that literally doesn't affect children at all).
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Even better (Score:3)
Good thing science is working to use stem cells to cure type 1 diabetes [slashdot.org]. Maybe they can work on this as well.
Too bad the same people who didn't believe in the science of covid vaccines, or covid in general, won't get to use this treatment since it's unproven. They'll just to suffer for the rest of their lives with long covid and sticking needles in their body.
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Gross. Fuck off
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The current COVID vaccines don't prevent COVID infection
They're not 100% effective at preventing infection, but to say they don't prevent any infection is not even close to being correct. Certainly, effectiveness is not the same against all variants, and Omicron has proven to be a problem in this regard.
and there is no data suggesting they make a difference in long COVID.
Now, that is just plain, flat-out wrong. Do try to keep up. [webmd.com]
Re: Even better (Score:1)
Did you ever stop to consider that correlation is not causation? That perhaps the excessively fat and older people, you know--the same demographic who are more likely to suffer diabetes, and are also known to more strongly affected by covid, seek out medical care, wherein a diagnosis of an underlying medical condition was made?
Nah. Covid obviously causes it all in this hypochondriac society.
Not a surprise (Score:2)
Thousands of people die every year from the flu. Well, usually not directly, but from subsequent pneumonia. So the flu is pretty serious. Covid is also a serious respiratory infection.
If you are so unfortunate as to have both at the same time? I would be surprised if you are *only* twice as likely to die.
It's good they did this study, but the results should surprise no one.
Pity about the flu vaccine (Score:2)
This year's flu vaccine isn't their best work. Flu vaccine is normally 40% to 60% effective at reducing symptoms (source: I asked an infectious diseases physician I know), but this year's one is hopeless.
Disclaimer: I am COVID double vaccinated (Pfizer) and get my flu shot every year. I'm not sure I'll get this year's flu shot, not even for the lollipop.
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Damn, I forgot the link. I actually have COVID right now and I'm a bit fuzzy.
https://science.slashdot.org/s... [slashdot.org]
https://gizmodo.com/this-years... [gizmodo.com]
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volum... [cdc.gov]
Let's hope this year's flu season is a mild one, and the immunologists' prognostications are better next year.
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https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volum... [cdc.gov]
Let's hope this year's flu season is a mild one, and the immunologists' prognostications are better next year.
The prognostications were not that bad, they correctly assumed Influenza A H2N3 would become important, and the CDC wrote it dominated infections. But when you want to produce cheap on eggs, then you are restricted to whatever chicken flu seems "similar" to what infects the humans.
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It's kind of late to get this season's flu shot, don't you think?