Ancient Tombs and Sarcophagus Unearthed Beneath Paris' Notre Dame (theguardian.com) 33
Several tombs and a leaden sarcophagus likely dating from the 14th century have been uncovered by archaeologists at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris as work continues on the building's reconstruction after its devastating 2019 fire. From a report: The burial sites "of remarkable scientific quality" were unearthed during preparatory work for rebuilding the ancient church's spire at the central spot where the transept crosses the nave, France's culture ministry announced late Monday. Among the tombs was a "completely preserved, human-shaped sarcophagus made of lead." It is thought the coffin was made for a senior dignitary in the 1300s -- the century after the cathedral's construction. As well as the tombs, elements of painted sculptures were found just beneath the current floor level of the cathedral, identified as parts of the original 13th-century rood screen -- an architectural element separating the altar area from the nave.
My concern (Score:3)
The archaeologists are being rushed so that the repairs will be on time. This is completely the wrong way to go about it. The archaeology should be done right, so as to minimise the harm done to the remains and to maximise cultural understanding of the heritage of the cathedral. This will not only provide the necessary respect, but it will boost the value of the repairs by improving both the quality and quantity of information that can be presented. Information about real people and their lives over the early history of the cathedral, as opposed to idle speculation and vague sketches.
The added tourism and trade produced by new findings will more than cover the cost of the delay, so will also help cover the cost of the repairs themselves. It will also bolster the local economy which will have been impacted by the destruction of the cathedral -- and it will do so much sooner than the rebuild will.
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Actually since they uncovered something archeologically significant, the repairs are going to be postponed for a preset amount of time (I think it's either 6 months or 1 year) so as to accommodate the necessity of doing the archeological work, while limiting the financially damage to the repair companies that will only get paid when the rebuilding will be finished. This is something set in French law, and even if there is political pressure to finish the works asap, the law will prevail, as usual.
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That's a relief, the early news reports were saying they were only going to be given a few weeks, but if it's something rather more substantial then that's definitely a good thing.
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Actually since they uncovered something archeologically significant, the repairs are going to be postponed for a preset amount of time
As a condition of a building permit in an area near a civil war battlefield, I had to agree to report anything I found while digging.
Which would hold up my project indefinitely. So if I dug up the corpse of General Grant himself, think I'd say anything?
So doing the archeology right can have the unintended consequence of not getting to do it at all.
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I also went to have a look at the new castle in Newcastle, and they bloody lied about it because its really old. Like a thousand years old. Disappointing.
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Unfortunately, particularly with urban sites, archaeologists often don't have that luxury. Sometimes the best solution is to seal the site up as best possible, and leave it for future generations, perhaps with better technology and techniques. Sucks, but that's just the nature of urban archaeology. Imagine trying to do this sort of thing in cities like Rome, Istanbul, Alexandria and Athens, where the history and remains is even deeper.
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Or Jerusalem, where you have the added complication of multi-way religious conflict!
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FYI, Paris survived a third of a century of similar conflict [wikipedia.org].
The echoes of that conflict continue to reverberate today.
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They did five day digs on a couple of occasions (Big Dig and Big Royal Dig).
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Where did I say the archaeologists were doing anything wrong?
Random coward has something to bullshit about.
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Is the (Score:1)
Hunchback down there also?
Why? (Score:2)
Just leave them be. People who were buried have an expectation to remain buried.
This reminds me of a bit on Saturday Night Live's Weekend Update. The obituary of Mary Leaky:
Famed anthropologist Mary Leakey died this Monday at the age of 83. Leakey was buried near her home, where she will rest in peace until some nosy anthropologist digs her up.
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How do you know what their expectations were? I can only hope that someone finds my remains interesting enough for them to dig me up and examine the conditions of my era.
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Note the occupation of the person in question.
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Just leave them be. People who were buried have an expectation to remain buried.
The only thing we can conclusively say about people who were buried is that they don't give a shit what happens to their body. They after all, can't give a shit.
Beyond that you have no basis for what their expectation was and they won't be in any way disappointed if their expectations weren't met.
Google Review:
1 Star. Body disrupted after 700 years. Would not die here again.
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they don't give a shit what happens to their body
Take a look at some of the customs and traditions surrounding burials. They gave a shit. Odds are that their descendants still do. Try poking around a Native American burial ground and see what the response will be.
Personally, when I die, they can take all the usable parts and compost the rest. But that will be my choice of disposal. The guy that commissioned a pyramid probably cares.
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They gave a shit.
No. People gave a shit when they were alive. They objectively don't give a shit when they are dead. They can't even shit, even if you carry their corpse to the crapper.
The dead don't care, whatever their opinions or views may have been when they were alive. Living family members may care. Goodluck finding them 700 years on.
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Goodluck finding them 700 years on.
Around here, they are called Native Americans. And their belief systems are protected by federal law (never mind the First Amendment).
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Around here, they are called Native Americans.
I don't think Native Americans give a shit about a European buried 700 years ago under Notre Dame which is who we're talking about. But I'm glad you stopped arguing about the expectations of a dead person and at least acknowledge that it is exclusively a debate to be held by the living.
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give a shit about a European buried 700 years ago under Notre Dame
I'm surprised that the Catholic church doesn't. I mean if they don't stand up for their members rights, people will just stop tithing and buying indulgences.
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I highly suspect the black plague may have tempered / moderated expectations for European based religions. Respecting and not disturbing burial grounds seems to be more of a thing of traditional / native religions, not just Native Americans but also Aboriginal Australians, and tribal populations of Pacific Island nations.
If you ever get around the Czech Republic I recommend visiting the Sedlec Ossuary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] a place where they once said "well shit our mass graveyard is full" and t
It's Quasimodo and Esmeralda (Score:2)
Who else?
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The French Ministry of Culture owns the building, and is responsible for maintenance and repairs.
Even culturally, Notre Dame is "larger" than simply being Catholic. I, an athiest half a world away bearing neither religious nor regional background, was surprised that I cared when it burned.
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The possessions of the Catholic Church were taken over by the government by decree on November 2, 1789, on proposal of statesman Talleyrand (himself a clergyman), originally as an asset (that could be sold) to help France through the difficult times of the Revolution. An agreement was reached in the Concordat of 1801 (between Napoleon and the Pope) about the compensation: Catholicism reinstated as State religion and the priests receiving a government salary. This agreement was revoked by the 1905 Law on the
14th century sealed lead coffin eh ? (Score:2)
I guess it's good Notre Dame burned down (Score:2)