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US Satellites Are Being Attacked Every Day According To Space Force General (thedrive.com) 171

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Drive: U.S. Space Force's General David Thompson, the service's second in command, said last week that Russia and China are launching "reversible attacks," such as electronic warfare jamming, temporarily blinding optics with lasers, and cyber attacks, on U.S. satellites "every single day." He also disclosed that a small Russian satellite used to conduct an on-orbit anti-satellite weapon test back in 2019 had first gotten so close to an American one that there were concerns an actual attack was imminent.

Thompson, who is Vice Chief of Space Operations, disclosed these details to The Washington Post's Josh Rogin in an interview on the sidelines of the Halifax International Security Forum, which ran from Nov. 19 to 21 in Halifax, Nova Scotia, in Canada. The forum opened just four days after a Russian anti-satellite weapon test involving a ground-launched interceptor, which destroyed a defunct Soviet-era electronic intelligence satellite and created a cloud of debris that presents a risk to the International Space Station (ISS). That test drew widespread condemnation, including from the U.S. government, and prompted renewed discussion about potential future conflicts in space.

"The threats are really growing and expanding every single day. And it's really an evolution of activity that's been happening for a long time," Thompson, told Rogin. "We're really at a point now where there's a whole host of ways that our space systems can be threatened." "Right now, Space Force is dealing with what Thompson calls 'reversible attacks' on U.S. government satellites (meaning attacks that don't permanently damage the satellites) 'every single day,'" according to Rogin. "Both China and Russia are regularly attacking U.S. satellites with non-kinetic means, including lasers, radio frequency jammers, and cyber attacks, he said." [...] Thompson's assertion that these kinds of attacks are occurring with extreme frequency is new. It underscores the rapid development and fielding by Russia and China, among others, of a wide variety of anti-satellite capabilities, something the U.S. military has called increasing attention to in recent years. "The Chinese are actually well ahead [of Russia]," Thompson told Rogin. "They're fielding operational systems at an incredible rate."
"Thompson could not confirm or deny whether any American satellites had actually been damaged in a Russian or Chinese attack," the report adds. "[H]e told Rogin that even if such a thing had occurred, that very fact would be classified."

He did, however, provide new details about the incident in 2019 where a small Russian satellite released a projectile in one on-orbit anti-satellite weapon test. According to The Drive, "Russia's satellite had first got in very close to a U.S. 'national security satellite' and that 'the U.S. government didn't know whether it was attacking or not.'"

"It maneuvered close, it maneuvered dangerously, it maneuvered threateningly so that they were coming close enough that there was a concern of collision," Thompson said. "So clearly, the Russians were sending us a message."
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US Satellites Are Being Attacked Every Day According To Space Force General

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  • "Threats" (Score:3, Interesting)

    by BytePusher ( 209961 ) on Thursday December 02, 2021 @10:39PM (#62042273) Homepage
    As if US military surveillance satellites aren't a threat to China and Russia. Guess who has more satellites spying on EVERYONE than anyone else combined?
    • Re:"Threats" (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Valgrus Thunderaxe ( 8769977 ) on Thursday December 02, 2021 @10:41PM (#62042279)
      Yeah. It comes off as complete hypocrisy when the US complains that someone is "spying" on them.

      Snowden confirmed the US is the biggest spy in the world but people continue to pay *zero* attention to what he has to say.
      • Re: "Threats" (Score:2, Interesting)

        by saloomy ( 2817221 )
        The US dictates the tone. Honestly after WW2, the US should have disarmed the Soviets and everyone else, and forbid any other nation from having the right to arm itself with war-making weapons, keeping itself as the sole peace-keeping force. As the sole super power / nuclear power, it could have achieved that. Global hegemony. Imagine that. Instead, the UN (which was a half-measure) failed to keep the worlds nations in a state of peace. Now, we all spend money defending ourselves from each other. This is a
        • Re: "Threats" (Score:4, Informative)

          by diablobsb ( 444773 ) on Friday December 03, 2021 @12:43AM (#62042527)

          After WW2 russia's military was larger than the US. "should have disarmed the Soviets and everyone else" would have been really hard to do.
          read about "operation Unthinkable"

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMAkiURDoTE

          • It was not nuclear capable.
        • Re: "Threats" (Score:4, Insightful)

          by 1s44c ( 552956 ) on Friday December 03, 2021 @12:46AM (#62042541)

          You actually want a one world government, accountable only to itself? And you would put the broken US political system at the top of that government?

          That system would probably make Chinese or Russian authoritarianism look like a beautiful dream.

        • Re: "Threats" (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Calinous ( 985536 ) on Friday December 03, 2021 @03:17AM (#62042769)

          "and forbid any other nation from having the right to arm itself with war-making weapons"
          Well, the (in)famous Bf-109 fighter of World War 2 was designed and built as a mail carrying plane.
          The initial training of the Panzer force used the "Grosstraktor" and "Leichttraktor" - the "heavy" and "lightweight" "agricultural" tractors on caterpillar drive.
          And there's a joke about Russian sewing machines - if you take them apart and re-install them, you end up with an AK-47.

          By the way, good luck suspending the right to arm itself to a country that lost more than one in ten of its population against a much smaller, well armed country. And who got invaded. Out of its 22 million square kilometers of land, the Germans, Italians, Romanians (and probably some others) took occupied around one million square kilometers of land.

          This is why the Soviet Union, then, and Russia now wants that "security curtain" - hundreds of kilometers of deep defensive locations _away_ from Russian lands. The people ruling now Russia (civilians and military) were educated by the veterans of the Second World War.

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          That would have been a mistake. It would have cost a huge number of lives to disarm the USSR, and would quite likely have ended in a nuclear exchange.

          It didn't work well with Germany after WW1 either. After WW2 there was some talk of turning Germany into an agrarian society, so devoid of technology that it could never start another war. That was thankfully rejected, and instead Germany was integrated into the European economy and allowed to thrive, preventing the conditions for another war ever arising agai

        • Some people argue that senior Nazis were assimilated into the US military, including the CIA, & that their values & beliefs have had a profound impact since then. If that's the case, then arguing for a new world order with the USA in charge is pretty much letting Nazi ideologies win.
    • by suss ( 158993 )

      Elon Musk?

      • by fazig ( 2909523 )
        Just wait until those internet satellites are subjected to electronic warfare and people lose their internet connection.
        Watch them go apeshit and call for blood about no longer being able to look at cat pictures on facebook and play Fortnite while they couldn't care less about these other satellites.
    • Re:"Threats" (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Entrope ( 68843 ) on Thursday December 02, 2021 @10:59PM (#62042313) Homepage

      There's a big difference between shooting pictures of someone and shooting bullets at them. The US does the first, so why are you conflating that with the second?

      • The US government fires plenty of bullets at people, both at home and abroad.

      • by Nugoo ( 1794744 )
        Who said anything about shooting bullets at someone? BytePusher didn't. The article summary didn't. What's your basis for the claim that BytePusher is conflating surveillance with killing?
    • So by this logic, the US should definitely be attacking Russian and Chinese satellites, too.

    • As if US military surveillance satellites aren't a threat to China and Russia. Guess who has more satellites spying on EVERYONE than anyone else combined?

      SpaceX (Starlink)? :-)

  • by Luckyo ( 1726890 ) on Thursday December 02, 2021 @10:48PM (#62042291)

    So if a spy satellite going over a territory of foreign nation is prevented from taking pictures by blinding it with directed light emission, or radar equipped spy satellite is prevented from doing the same via electromagnetic jamming, this is "an attack"?

    Weird. I'm pretty sure this is called "countermeasures" when US uses these methods, specifically because they are defensive in nature.

    Seriously, I like the new propaganda. It's just like the old propaganda, but not as stale. And it's perfectly in theme with having a "Department of Defense", in a nation that has two oceanic moats and two completely militarily subjugated neighbours that operates offensive missions globally. 10/10, I want to hear more.

    About the only new thing here seems to be that Russians at least have learned some things from X-37B's adventures.

    • by Petrini ( 49261 )

      So if a spy satellite going over a territory of foreign nation is prevented from taking pictures by blinding it with directed light emission, or radar equipped spy satellite is prevented from doing the same via electromagnetic jamming, this is "an attack"?

      Weird. I'm pretty sure this is called "countermeasures" when US uses these methods, specifically because they are defensive in nature.

      I'm on board with "it's countermeasures when a spy satellite over a nation's territory is zapped", where does it say in the article - or where does the general say - that it only happens over the territory of certain nations? Maybe I missed where this was in the article. Point me to it? I see "ground-based" a couple times, to distinguish from satellite-satellite play, but that doesn't mean "from a certain nation."

      I mean, sure, your scenario leads to the conclusion, but it reads like you just took a gener

      • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

        Notice how in addition to building a case which you then proceed to demolish in a single sentence

        >I mean, sure, your scenario leads to the conclusion

        As the scenario presented is not mine but in the OP, but you then also spend a lot of time talking about specific US satellites and then... "attacking A satellite" as if they just attacked a random one.

        As for the rest, yeah, military operations are dangerous. Have you ever handled explosives? And that's before we actually get into the wonderful world of how

    • Seriously, I like the new propaganda. It's just like the old propaganda, but not as stale.

      In this case it's the same old propaganda but with space lasers. USPTO approved.

      • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

        To be fair, almost everything is better with lasers. Have you seen those Chinese laser shows? Amazing.

    • Well, apparently it's not Electronic Counter-Measures (ECM) any more, it's 'reversible attacks'. That's some double-plus good right there!

  • Didn't former US president Donald Trump declare that the US was going to militarize space? Didn't he establish a branch of the military called Space Force that is dedicated to this task? Could that perhaps have something to do with the other space powers suddenly experimenting with space weapons that target us? Hmm...

    • Darth Cheney wanted moon mirrors to take away the shadows and banish crime to the... dimly lit night?

      You may have simply been confused when they moved the satellite intelligence analysts from the Air Force to the Space Force.

      • by MobyDisk ( 75490 )

        You may have simply been confused when they moved the satellite intelligence analysts from the Air Force to the Space Force.

        Administratively, that may be all it was. But to the rest of the world, Trump was initiating an escalation. China and Russia already had tested space weapons. But the fool shouldn't have given them an excuse to use them.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Orgasmatron ( 8103 )

      Step 1 - low level harassment
      Step 2 - escalation
      Step 3 - opponent responds publicly
      Step 4 - traitors blame the victim, claiming that step 3 caused steps 1 and 2
      Step 5 - go back to step 2 and repeat the cycle

      I'll be clear since you aren't bright enough to figure this out on your own, you are step 4. This pattern literally goes back to the 1790s.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      TDS in public? How humiliating. Please desist. The US had satellites long before Trump. Hell, the man tried to end several occupations only to be overruled by the military industrial complex. Withdraw from Afghanistan - denied. Withdraw from Syria - denied. Withdraw from Germany - denied. The generals were outright lying to the legitimately elected US President.
      • by Cito ( 1725214 ) on Friday December 03, 2021 @12:33AM (#62042507)

        Yea a lot of fools just blindly believe what CNN feeds them and thinks its truth.

        Thomas Jefferson's 2nd inaugural address on March 4, 1805 in the 11th paragraph warned the people about "fake news" even though CNN act like there's no such thing and Trump invented it lol.

          Source: https://avalon.law.yale.edu/19... [yale.edu]

        During this course of administration, and in order to disturb it, the artillery of the press has been levelled against us, charged with whatsoever its licentiousness could devise or dare. These abuses of an institution so important to freedom and science, are deeply to be regretted, inasmuch as they tend to lessen its usefulness, and to sap its safety; they might, indeed, have been corrected by the wholesome punishments reserved and provided by the laws of the several States against falsehood and defamation; but public duties more urgent press on the time of public servants, and the offenders have therefore been left to find their punishment in the public indignation.

        • even though CNN act like there's no such thing and Trump invented it lol.

          There's warning against "fake news" and then there's calling every time your lies get called out "fake news", and calling every news agency ever critical of you "fake news".

          Equating the two while criticizing CNN really does little more than show you have not at all understood CNN. Or understood Trump for that matter.

        • I remember when Faux News perfected the technique in the modern era. Now everybody plays.

      • by MobyDisk ( 75490 )

        The US had satellites long before Trump.

        Certainly, as did China and Russia. Trump declaring "Space Force" publicly merely emboldened those other powers to act more publicly as well. I doubt he did it for any specific military reason. Heck: the military didn't want him to do it, and neither did congress or the public really. He did it because he is a narcissist who wanted to be the one written in the history books as having started "Space Force."

    • Could that perhaps have something to do with ..

      .. members of that branch of the military claiming that the US is under attack.

      FTFY. This is just the highly paid military officers justifying their existence.

    • do you really think this is suddenly new? or maybe this is specifically one of the reasons why the previous president spun off the space force in the same way the air force was spun out decades earlier
    • You seem to be mixing up your chickens and eggs. The space force was organized in response to escalating efforts to militarize space.
      • The space force was organized to make Trump look like he did something useful. The Air Force was already handling those concerns.

        • No, it wasn't even Trump's idea. It was opposed and not properly funded in order to PREVENT Trump from visibly doing something useful. The same reason the fanatics are hating on the military saying they actually do need this thing now.
          • No, it wasn't even Trump's idea.

            That is completely irrelevant, because it was sold as Trump's idea, and most of his followers bought it. Reality is not relevant with these people.

            It was opposed and not properly funded in order to PREVENT Trump from visibly doing something useful.

            It has received more funding than the Air Force did for doing the job, and they were doing fine.

            The same reason the fanatics are hating on the military saying they actually do need this thing now.

            That sentence makes absolutely no sense. Try again.

            • "That sentence makes absolutely no sense. Try again."

              No that is just cognitive dissonance.

              "That is completely irrelevant, because it was sold as Trump's idea, and most of his followers bought it."

              Huh sounds like a point which only matters to someone who rejects the idea on a purely political basis.

              Guess you are one of those fanatics I spoke of.

              "It has received more funding than the Air Force did for doing the job, and they were doing fine."

              According to you and your friendly media. But not the military and a
    • Didn't former US president Donald Trump declare that the US was going to militarize space? Didn't he establish a branch of the military called Space Force that is dedicated to this task? Could that perhaps have something to do with the other space powers suddenly experimenting with space weapons that target us? Hmm...

      The US just made it's space warfare section a semi-independent branch, that's all. Russia and China both have space warfare divisions, they're still just a part of their countries respective air forces (as the Space Force used to be the USAF Space Command).

      Wherever man goes, the military goes. This has always been the case. And you forget that our "civilian" space agency was largely made up of military pilots on the astronaut side, and former German military engineers that worked on Hitler's vengeance weapo

  • Justifying Existence (Score:5, Informative)

    by bloodhawk ( 813939 ) on Thursday December 02, 2021 @11:23PM (#62042369)
    Sounds like a whole lot of desperation to justify their existence
    • They already existed, we took part of the Air Force and gave it a new name.

      I just want it to be clear because there's lots of reasons to shit on the space force existing, but the mission isn't really new, and whether it's justified is a separate discussion.

      • They have a whole new level of bureaucracy that needs funding and empire building
      • Space Force was created for literally the same reason the Air Force was created: to create a promotion path for people focused on a mission that was not respected under the old system.

        The Army did not take the air mission seriously. The path to General did not run through the offices that managed the air fleet. But civilians understood how important air was, so they spun the Air Force off. Suddenly, it was possible for people with a passion for the air mission to be recognized for their excellence, and t

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Yeah, this isn't news at all. Russia and China have been using lasers to blind satellites for decades, and practicing in-orbit interception.

      So has the US.

  • I thought blinding spy satellites that come over military bases had been a common practice from everyone? Note that this could totally be a gentleman's agreement: "I will be blinding your optics potentially destructively from a point at roughly lat:x lon:y when your satellite is visible. If you don't want to damage it, make sure your optics point in another direction."
  • by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ) on Thursday December 02, 2021 @11:38PM (#62042427) Journal

    Do you really think the guy who's in charge of this big new "Space Force" agency and it's $17.4 BILLION budget is going to say, "no, we're not really needed at this point. Space is pretty peaceful."

    At this point, don't we expect a general or admiral to pretty much tout the story that their agency is a strategic bulwark for Liberty and Freedom against the forces of evil? What else is he going to say? He's got to justify his existence, so there's got to be attacks.

  • Are there treaties / laws on what sort of interference with satellites is OK? Its arguable that temporarily jamming / blinding satellites over your territory is OK, but if they are early warning launch detect satellites, that could be very dangerous to everyone (and here I literally mean *everyone*)
  • by asackett ( 161377 ) on Friday December 03, 2021 @12:19AM (#62042491) Homepage

    The referenced article is pure propaganda. Electronic countermeasures are a globally accepted form of military defense and we (USians) were jamming Soviet satellites at least as far back as forty years ago when I was in the US Air Force being a Space Systems Equipment Maintenance Technician. Everyone who can, does, and no one who does is surprised when the other guy does, too.

  • We want more money so we can better pretend creating our branch wasn't just a publicity stunt!

    • it really was no different than spinning off the air force from the army air corps decades ago....
  • I’ve seen Moonraker.

    • -- "Dr. Goodhead, be a good cunt, and please fetch me two dozen freight trains stocked full of torches and pitchforks with phasers."
      -- "Mr. Bond, I went to Wellesley and Harvard..."
      -- "Then be a good vicious cunt."

  • by AutodidactLabrat ( 3506801 ) on Friday December 03, 2021 @02:43AM (#62042733)
    No budget, no mission, no respect.
    Inventing an enemy is essential.
    Same old, same old.
    • It's mission is the mission of the old USAF Space Command. I would expect the budget to be comparable. And yes, same old enemies.

  • "If they were under attack, that would be classified, but trust us, they are, give us money."

  • Now that SpaceX has shown the capability to launch, and the practicality of, thousands of microsatellites, the US government will be doing the same thing in short order. Especially when Starship can launch several hundred at one time. Makes it technically and logistically extremely difficult to shoot that many satellites down. You know, it's bad to put all your eggs in one basket type thing with just a handful of really big satellites.

  • Your tax dollars must go to the Military Industrial Complex to keep you safe from Russia and China.

    This stupid narrative against Russia has been going on since Truman fucked over Stalin, and the Chinese civil war was won by the side the US wasn't backing.

    Learn history to see the bullshit we're being fed, by the people making the most money from it.

  • ...and we've been doing the same thing to them for decades.

    The US, Russia, and China have been blinding satellites over sensitive military bases for longer than we care to admit, and before that we were using camouflage or just keeping things inside when satellites were overhead.

    This is nothing new, and it certainly isn't news. This is just the tarded Space Force version of "mom, he hit me!".

  • Space Force's new mission will be... wait for it... climate change. And you thought THIS guy WASN'T compromised.

  • Literally par for the course, all this "Oh, wow this is new!" nonsense is hyperbole.

    Military complexes are constantly trying their luck and pushing the boundary on interaction with other such places.

    The Russian jets skirt the North Sea air borders of the UK almost every day, often prompting an RAF response to launch (and that's used by the Russians to gauge our response capabilities). Boats. Subs. Cyber-attacks.

    What makes you think satellites are any different?

    The only thing "new" now is that you're delib

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