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Medicine

Europe Once Again at Centre of Covid Pandemic, Says WHO (theguardian.com) 114

Uneven vaccine coverage and a relaxation of preventive measures have brought Europe to a "critical point" in the pandemic, the World Health Organization has said, with cases again at near-record levels and 500,000 more deaths forecast by February. From a report: Hans Kluge, the WHO's Europe director, said all 53 countries in the region were facing "a real threat of Covid-19 resurgence or already fighting it" and urged governments to reimpose or continue with social and public health measures. "We are, once again, at the epicentre," he said. "With a widespread resurgence of the virus, I am asking every health authority to carefully reconsider easing or lifting measures at this moment." He said that even in countries with high vaccination rates, immunisation could only do so much.

"The message has always been: do it all," Kluge said. "Vaccines are doing what was promised: preventing severe forms of the disease and especially mortality ... But they are our most powerful asset only if used alongside public health and social measures." Catherine Smallwood, WHO Europe's senior emergency officer, said countries that had mostly lifted preventive measures had experienced a surge in infections.

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Europe Once Again at Centre of Covid Pandemic, Says WHO

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  • by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Friday November 05, 2021 @02:29PM (#61960893) Journal

    If it appears to the public the Covid Dance is perpetual or has a fuzzy end-date, many will decide it's time to "go Darwin" and let fate run its course rather than be stuck forever in lockdown limbo. The idea is to take more short-term pain to return the long-term to normal, proverbially comparable to a root canal.

    I won't pick a side here, but just saying the longer this all lasts, the more popular the Darwin Option becomes, creating an ever bigger rift in public opinion.

    • by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Friday November 05, 2021 @03:23PM (#61961073) Journal

      many will decide it's time to "go Darwin" and let fate run its course rather than be stuck forever in lockdown limbo

      I've already done that, other than getting the vaccine and wearing a mask still. I see no reason to continue lockdown now.

      • Same. I preferentially eat outdoors as well, but otherwise COVID is basically over for me.

        I kind of miss having other people around at work though. It gets pretty isolated feeling being pretty much the only one on site.

      • Let's just be honest about it... that would be a good start.

        Being vaxxed, aka, introducing the infection to your immune system, does not prevent you from getting the Covid, as originally (90+% immunity) implied. It does, however, allow us to return to pre-pandemic lifestyles, since the threat of becoming dreadfully ill from an infection depreciates exponentially.

        That's the best outcome I can remember for an overly promised expectation since New Coke.

        • I don't think there's anything we can do to prevent everyone from being exposed to COVID sooner or later. If there were some way to accomplish that, I would go along with it.

          As it is, I figure the masking and vaccination is pretty much all I can do. I especially became a big fan of masking after I saw what happened to influenza rates in the last two years.

          • Nasal vaccines might be able to stimulate mucosal immunity a bit better but at least here in the US that is a very long way's out. Of course even if it did check all the boxes I can't see very widespread adoption at this point. I think many of us are at or getting close to the Darwin option.
    • Can it be monetized? I propose we strap a camera to anti-vaxxers and follow them around reality-show style, up until the day they die of COVID. Would people watch it? I guess we'll see.

    • by jenningsthecat ( 1525947 ) on Friday November 05, 2021 @03:24PM (#61961081)

      The idea is to take more short-term pain to return the long-term to normal, proverbially comparable to a root canal.

      Unfortunately, most people, including most leaders, have chosen the "short-term gain for long-term pain" option. Here in Ontario, restaurants and such are now allowed to run at full pre-Covid occupancy levels - and this as we're going into Winter, when the spread of the disease increases.

      Sure, people have to show proof of vaccination to be allowed in, but so what? Even those of us who are fully vaccinated can still get Covid and, symptomatic or not, can still spread it. And if we have it, then we're still breeding grounds for possible new variants that may be more lethal and/or less likely to be stopped by the vaccines. But none of that seems to matter. Never mind that we have a huge nursing shortage and another wave could well bring our healthcare system to its knees - gotta get that economy rolling again!

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      People in the UK won't accept more lockdowns. Our government keeps screwing up and wasting the effort we make. Then it told us that there were no more lockdowns, they were not going to open up again until they had it beaten for good.

    • darwin option... Pretty catchy name; but not like you need yet another cudgel to use against science deniers; who in their refusal to acknowledge the very probable ramifications of not taking a free, safe, and effective vaccine (read as: nearly certain death) put everyone who did their part and GOT THEIR VACCINE at risk of dying.

    • If it appears to the public the Covid Dance is perpetual or has a fuzzy end-date, many will decide it's time to "go Darwin" and let fate run its course rather than be stuck forever in lockdown limbo.

      You can't go Darwin. Nearly all of the people dying have already bred and perpetuated their stupidity. Additionally if it were just a few stupid people dying I'd agree with you, but right now the moron brigade are taking up valuable hospital beds, costing taxpayers money, putting the vulnerable at risk, potentially disabling themselves via long-COVID costing the social security system money, and very much creating an ideal breeding ground for a potential mutation that sets us all back to square one.

      The COVI

    • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

      There is no returning to normal, because at least one of the variants is endemic in rodents. This thing is going to be with us effectively forever. Problem is that there are political interests at play, where many see this as a perfect crisis for their ambitions of radical political change in a variety of directions.

      Realistically, once you mitigated the worst problems of the disease, you need to learn to live with the rest of it. We know it isn't going away any more, because rodents have existed alongside u

    • by danda ( 11343 )

      "Darwin option" sounds like another name for common sense.

      Every individual should decide for him or herself what to put, or not put into their body.

      Without that fundamental right, do we have any rights at all?

      • You have a fundamental right to decide to put alcohol in your body. But you do not have the fundamental right to drive a car and kill somebody.

        Viruses spread. This makes it an entirely different question than simply about the right of deciding what to put into one's body. You are also forcing your decision on to others just the same, giving others no option but to be infected by your stupidity and selfishness.
    • by khchung ( 462899 )

      The idea is to take more short-term pain to return the long-term to normal, proverbially comparable to a root canal.

      What's missing in the above, was of course, most people had in mind was really "other people take more short-term pain for me to return to long-term to normal". I.e. only other people suffer so I can have my convenience.

      That's not it? If some people *really* believed that everyone getting covid "to get it over with" is a good idea, then wouldn't they be starting "covid parties" regularly already? Do you see any people doing that except for a few fools who made news early in the pandemic (and I recall at

      • by ffkom ( 3519199 )

        People truly thinking that short-term pain justified long-term normal are calling for hard lockdown, which they themselves would also suffer. 1 month hard lockdown would have completely eradicated the virus, then with strict border control everyone could have normal life again.

        No, this has been tried by Australia and New Zealand (for even much longer than 1 month), and did not work [ourworldindata.org], which is not at all surprising as humans are not the only hosts for Sars-Cov-2, many mammals are, too.

      • by Tablizer ( 95088 )

        > If some people *really* believed that everyone getting covid "to get it over with" is a good idea, then wouldn't they be starting "covid parties" regularly already?

        They are called MAGA Rallies.

    • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      Most vaccinated people aren't locked down.

      There are signs COVID will never be over, however, it's gone from a disease that could land you in an overcapacity hospital to "preventable". That's a huge change, which is why things are returning back to normal with gatherings happening and capacity limits being removed.

      A full return to normal will happen once the ICUs are cleared out of people and things settle down, when hospitals aren't working at 150% capacity.

      That's really what's keeping people being careful

      • by ffkom ( 3519199 )

        Most vaccinated people aren't locked down.

        Tell that to the millions currently under brutal lock-downs in China, vaccinated or not.

        A full return to normal will happen once the ICUs are cleared out of people and things settle down, when hospitals aren't working at 150% capacity.

        ICUs in many countries have been "made more efficient" (more profitable) by down-sizing the personnel to a point where they are working at 95% capacity every normal day - outside of any pandemics. And in many years with above-average Influenza seasons we have already seen ICUs being unable to keep up with the incoming severely ill patients - that just did not make quite as much news back then.

        I doubt that ICUs will be

    • There are two things that will stop this planned pandemic, first enough resistance from the people, and second, their time is up and their plans to jab the entire world did not work, so, after this winter (because most people will have colds/flu get sick anyway) the COVID illusion will start to die. Where I live, the 4th wave and 3rd jab are happening and I was wondering how did I “survive” all this scary, dangerous, life threatening virus without a "jab" (submission) and having contact with l
    • I agree, but then government canâ(TM)t exercise control. And the end goal is to keep you dependent and scared. Scared people are easy to manipulate.

      There is plenty of scientific evidence now that says mask mandates and lockdowns have little to no effect on the spread. So why continue them?

  • by AndyKron ( 937105 ) on Friday November 05, 2021 @03:06PM (#61961007)
    The people who bitch about not closing things down are the very people who are causing things to close down
    • by Arethan ( 223197 )

      The people who bitch about not closing things down

      they are complaining about why places are so open when the situation is so awful?

      are the very people who are causing things to close down

      some people would rather just cave in to the squeaky wheels and give them what they seem to want?

      I'm not really convinced that's irony.

  • by drnb ( 2434720 ) on Friday November 05, 2021 @03:08PM (#61961021)

    ... a relaxation of preventive measures have brought Europe to a "critical point" in the pandemic

    Ridiculous, fatalities are greatly reduced by vaccines. And an overwhelming number of people with access to vaccines are getting vaxed. The vaccinated fatalities are pretty much people with very serious illness who were close to terminal even without covid.

    Making vaccines accessible to all is the only priority. We can't disrupt society because of those that refuse vaccination. At most, shelter those with serious illness.

    • by fazig ( 2909523 ) on Friday November 05, 2021 @03:30PM (#61961099)
      True, in non-Eastern Europe, hospitalization and mortality rate is fairly low compared to last year around this time.
      But I can't say that the numbers look great either. After all, keep in mind that the virus primarily mutates on replicating itself after infecting an individual. This process doesn't take one to be hospitalized first. Hence these high infection rates still provide the virus with ample opportunities to mutate.

      Again, it's great that hospitalization rate is relatively low. But even if the capacities in our hospitals are enough to not have people die because ICUs are full everywhere, at this rate there's no end in sight.
      • by drnb ( 2434720 ) on Friday November 05, 2021 @03:40PM (#61961135)
        There was never an end "in sight". In the very beginning, when it was "slow the spread", things were perhaps at their greatest level of honesty. That we were all going to get it sooner or later, all we could do was slow the spread so that the health care infrastructure was not overwhelmed and the critically ill could get proper care.
        • by fazig ( 2909523 )
          There were various hypotheses of which one was that there could be an end.
          Another hypothesis was that it could kill enough people so that it's rate of spreading significantly slows down.
          And another hypothesis postulated it it'll turn into something like a 2nd flu, where at risk patients should take their annual flu shot.

          The first one appears to be fairly impossible by now. We've suspected that for a while as Oxford announced some time ago that heard immunity is no longer attainable. And all the current
    • We can't disrupt society because of those that refuse vaccination.

      Except that society is being actually disrupted because of those that refuse vaccination. He I'm all for letting stupid people die, but until we pass a law saying that anyone with COVID in hospital without a vaccine gets booted out when someone with elective surgery comes in, or we deny financial coverage to those costing the social system millions due to the medical treatment the unvaccinated morons require, it's better that we put a modicum of rules in place.

      People talking about "societal disruption" are

      • Except that society is being actually disrupted because of those that refuse vaccination.

        No it is not. If you are vaccinated you are safe from the unvaccinated, even without a mask. I don't think we need to indulge the vaccinated hypochondriacs any more than the unvaccinated. Society needs do very little at this point.

        And this does not even consider the mass produced emerging therapeutics, the "covid pills". Fast track those like the vaccines.

        • No it is not. If you are vaccinated you are safe from the unvaccinated, even without a mask.

          You can still get infected, and you can still pass it on. Passing it on is the issue here. If infection rates are high enough, then you'll get a lot more breakthrough infections

          • by drnb ( 2434720 )

            No it is not. If you are vaccinated you are safe from the unvaccinated, even without a mask.

            You can still get infected, and you can still pass it on. Passing it on is the issue here. If infection rates are high enough, then you'll get a lot more breakthrough infections

            You are verging on hypochondriac territory. Per the CDC: "Studies so far show that vaccinated people are 8 times less likely to be infected and 25 times less likely to experience hospitalization or death than unvaccinated people." And again, people are going to be exposed eventually. All that can be really done is keep the rate below what the hospitals can deal with. As was explained in the early "slow the spread" days. Thinking we can indefinitely prevent, rather than spread out infections over time, is fa

            • You are verging on hypochondriac territory.

              Are you retarded? You say THIS immediately after:

              Thinking we can indefinitely prevent, rather than spread out infections over time, is fantastical.

              How am I the hypochondriac, when you're saying EXACTLY what I'm saying, that infections will breakthrough?

              • by drnb ( 2434720 )

                You are verging on hypochondriac territory.

                Are you retarded? You say THIS immediately after:

                Thinking we can indefinitely prevent, rather than spread out infections over time, is fantastical.

                How am I the hypochondriac, when you're saying EXACTLY what I'm saying, that infections will breakthrough?

                Because I am acknowledging that it is not preventable, hence not being a hypochondriac about it. Accepting the fact that we have the vaccine so that the odds are highly in favor of being asymptomatic and even more greatly in favor of no serious illness. Hence, no need to worry. No need to interfere with society to protect those that refuse vaccination.

        • No it is not. If you are vaccinated you are safe from the unvaccinated, even without a mask.

          No I'm not. The unvaccinated are putting a load on our medical system that is causing a reduction in the quality of care for the vaccinated. I hope you don't live in my city and need knee surgery or anything like that because LOL we gave your hospital spot away to an unvaccinated moron. That's assuming they could get an unvaccinated moron in in the first place due to the nurse shortage, because fuck knows no one appreciates working 100h weeks solely because of idiots.

          Society needs do very little at this point.

          When medical systems resume normal funct

          • by drnb ( 2434720 )
            The medical system has returned to safe levels. A hospital at capacity can overflow to neighbors. You will get care if you need it. Your elective surgery delay does not prove otherwise.
            • You sound like you think where you live is the entire world. I'm glad your hospitals are in working order. Maybe reflect that the entire world is not the same, and the discussions in many European countries right now about new restrictions are precisely *because ICUs are again full*.

              • by drnb ( 2434720 )

                You sound like you think where you live is the entire world.

                Bad guess on you part. I said earlier that the real problem today is getting everyone access to the vaccine.

                • Except that's horseshit as several countries experiencing this ICU issues have universal access to the vaccine and anyone can go get one whenever they want.

                  Honestly you're all over the place, but at least consistent in one part: None of your argument is reflected in reality.

                  • by drnb ( 2434720 )

                    Except that's horseshit as several countries experiencing this ICU issues have universal access to the vaccine and anyone can go get one whenever they want.

                    If true, outliers. And there is still the option to transfer or direct people to a different hospital in the region.

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
          • by drnb ( 2434720 )

            He actually explained why the unvaccinated are a risk pretty well and justified his position ...

            And I debunked him.

            ... Perhaps next time you should read more than the first few words of the first sentence?

            I read his post in its entirety. Only the first few words were needed to identify the context of my reply, there was no need to clutter the response.

            He could also have mentioned that the voluntarily unvaccinated are causing problems for the immunocompromised, the families thereof (and people who interact with immunocompromised people), ...

            As I wrote, those people can be sheltered.

            ... the 10% of vaccinated people who'll get breakthrough infections, ...

            10%, ridiculous, hypochondria. "A New York Times analysis found that the average vaccinated American’s odds of experiencing a breakthrough infection are roughly 1-in-5,000 a day and 1-in-10,000 in highly vaccinated states.
            A recent CDC report contains data showing that the odds of a breakthrou

    • They're reduced from what it could have been, it doesn't meant that large numbers of people still won't get seriously ill and die, while over stretching hospitals and hospital staff.
      • by drnb ( 2434720 )

        They're reduced from what it could have been, it doesn't meant that large numbers of people still won't get seriously ill and die, while over stretching hospitals and hospital staff.

        The truth seems to be what was explained in the early "slow the spread" days. That everyone will eventually get it, all we can do is stretch out infections over a long period of time to avoid overwhelming the healthcare system. We did that. We got to vaccines, very few people will get seriously ill. We are past the point where a healthcare collapse is realistic.

  • TL;DR: A false sense of normality combined with our inability to deal with tomorrow's problem, is preventing us from doing a bunch of stuff we know we should be doing.

    It is interesting how humanity as a collective seems to be unable to take a long-term perspective. E.g. in my country (Norway), we are now in a (temporary) state of normality, and thus there is no crisis. Seemingly, we see only what we want to see, and/or what is right in front of us. Meanwhile:

    • We know vaccines lose their effectiveness after
  • The famous and deadly worldwide Spanish flu of 1918 only lasted (approx) 1 year and two months. What's odd about it is it seems to have happened worldwide even across WW I battlefield lines. Back then people couldn't travel worldwide as they can effortlessly today. I always wondered if Earth passed through something in space that caused it since it seemed to be reported from what I can tell down to the same day worldwide. It was also the flu, like this is.

    I wonder if we simply did things as they did in 1918

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