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ISS Space

Russian Cosmonauts Find New Cracks In ISS Module (livescience.com) 102

Posted by BeauHD from the lost-and-found dept.
Mr.Fork shares a report from Live Science: Russian cosmonauts discovered cracks on the Zarya module of the International Space Station (ISS) and are concerned that the fissures could spread over time, a senior space official reported on Monday. "Superficial fissures have been found in some places on the Zarya module," Vladimir Solovyov, chief engineer of rocket and space corporation Energia, told RIA news agency, according to Reuters. "This is bad and suggests that the fissures will begin to spread over time." The Zarya module, also called the Functional Cargo Block, was the first component of the ISS ever launched, having blasted into orbit on Nov. 20, 1998, according to NASA. Solovyov recently stated that the ISS is beginning to show its age and warned that there could potentially be an "avalanche" of broken equipment after 2025, according to Reuters.
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Russian Cosmonauts Find New Cracks In ISS Module More

Russian Cosmonauts Find New Cracks In ISS Module

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  • 2025? Is that when the warranty expires.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      2025? Is that when the warranty expires.

      No, that was in 2008. The modules have a 10 year planned life.

    • The warranty is long expired. Russia is willing to sell an extended warranty, but only if we stop giving any launch contracts to SpaceX.

      2025 is, indeed, the end of the last support contract.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by dgatwood ( 11270 )

        Said a NASA official, "So that's why I keep getting phone calls saying that they've been trying to contact me about my space station's extended warranty."

    • You can buy an extended warranty. I'll give you a call.

  • So which is the expected failure? Sudden and catastrophic like a ballon bursting, or gradually accelerating, like a turtle running downhill?

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

      Gradually accelerating. It's exactly what we're seeing. Thing is though, many of those modules have been over twice expected life span at this point. It's honestly very surprising how well they held up.

      • Well, it is Russian technology. It's noisy, it's uncomfortable, it's bulky, it's a PITA to work with - but it's sturdy and very likely can be MacGyvered back into shape with whatever tidbits you have lying around on the station.

    • That depends if the epoxy comes unstuck before 2025, or if they have to do it in software.

  • Aging (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mike.mondy ( 524326 ) on Monday August 30, 2021 @09:52PM (#61747229)

    Each of the modules had a planned lifetime of 10 years. It's been up for 20 years. NASA hopes to keep it going until 2024 or 2028. Structural and other issues mean it can't last forever. Reportedly, NASA is interested in one or more commercial stations. Hopefully, SpaceX will succeed with their Starship which will facilitate launch of massive components at cheaper rates than we've ever had before.

    • Re:Aging (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Aighearach ( 97333 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @12:00AM (#61747503)

      Reportedly, NASA is interested in one or more commercial stations. Hopefully, SpaceX will succeed with their Starship which will facilitate launch of massive components at cheaper rates than we've ever had before.

      The current schedule has SpaceX launching the first two modules of Lunar Gateway in 2024, which is where a lot of the government-funded science will be taking place, and also in 2024 SpaceX will be launching a commercial crew module to the ISS for Axiom Space. I wouldn't be surprised if there is already a commercial replacement when the Russians unhook their module in 2025. What is now the ISS might end up becoming a commercial station, one module at a time, though it will eventually be made of all new parts.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by sconeu ( 64226 )

        What is now the ISS might end up becoming a commercial station, one module at a time, though it will eventually be made of all new parts.

        The Space Station of Theseus.

        • I suspect they'll rename it as soon as Lunar Gateway receives the science modules, thereby avoiding the paradox.

      • The same guy said in January 2016 that by the end of 2017, he'd deliver cars that that could drive from New York to LA by themselves.

        Based on the track record, we would translate "modules in orbit in 2024" to mean "sub-orbital flight in 2028".

        But they've already done an orbital flight of something, so who the heck knows when or if they'll be able to deliver anything on Lunar Gateway. There's just no telling.

        • I'd say the only thing holding back SpaceX being able to launch "modules" in 2024 is paperwork and Bezos's demand that NASA suck his cock for not being able to break out of the atmosphere. I expect to see some spectacular explosions in the upper atmosphere within the next 12 months as Starship is tested, then a few nominal test flights next year even with the current road blocks. Once they get orbital with Starship on a regular basis without failure, there's nothing on the current agenda that would be hel

          • Who is going to toss together a module that quickly that can be approved for launch by the red tape brigade before 2024 should be the real question. Our government approval process moves so glacially slow I don't know if that's even possible if the module were sitting in a giant warehouse somewhere complete and they submitted for approval today.

            Thales Alenia will be doing the work. Is already doing the work. They've been cutting bulkheads already. They have previously built an ISS module, so they know what they're doing. They begin welding sometime in September and expect to be shipping the shell of the module to Houston by July of 2023. Final assembly and certification will happen in Houston, to be completed in time for launch in 2024.

            There's some chance that certification goes smoothly. Axiom Space hired a former ISS program director who h

            • Depending on replicability from their previous module, yeah, that does seem like an awful tight window to hit. Or it's literally a parts pop and is half done the second the welding is started. Guess time will tell.

          • I'd say the only thing holding back SpaceX being able to launch "modules" in 2024

            SpaceX is the launch service. There is nothing holding back SpaceX commercial launches, they happen all the time. One customer is Axiom Space, the other is NASA.

            Your perverted Bezos fellatio fantasy has nothing to do with any of it.

            And you might want to note that the Amazon lawsuit is about a Lunar Lander that has nothing at all to do with the Lunar Gateway project, which will be a space station in lunar orbit.

        • The same guy said in January 2016 that by the end of 2017, he'd deliver cars that that could drive from New York to LA by themselves.

          To be fair, it will do that; just make sure there're no emergency vehicles in the way.

          It also apparently helps if you're sleeping.

        • What "same guy?" I doubt anybody at NASA actually said anything like that.

          You do know that SpaceX is a commercial launch service, that really launches stuff? And that they have actual customers? And that those customers sometimes have already agreed launch schedules? And that those customers are paying for the launch, so it has nothing to do with the word of some random. Even if he owns a bunch of stock and has some kind of title, he's not the scheduling department.

          • > You do know that SpaceX is a commercial launch service, that really launches stuff? And that they have actual customers?

            You do know that Tesla is a commercial auto company, that really builds cars? And that they have actual customers?

            > And that those customers are paying for the launch

            Kinda like the people who paid for a Model 5 in January, were supposed to get it by June, and after several months of no communication from the company are now being told sometime in 2022.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Lordfly ( 590616 )

        Let's rename it the ISS Theseus.

        • You would already have avoided the paradox by doing that, so it would be a really lame name. Anybody who got the joke would call you an idiot.

    • Hopefully, SpaceX will succeed with their Starship which will facilitate launch of massive components at cheaper rates than we've ever had before.

      A billion dollar facility is still pretty going to be a billion dollar facility - even if launches were free. You'll save some money because you don't have to be as clever with weight... But all the other requirements are still going to be there.

      • I think you misunderestimate (sic) the work needed to keep the weight down, and conversely how many problems can be more simply solved just by adding weight.

      • A billion dollar facility is still pretty going to be a billion dollar facility - even if launches were free.

        Axiom Space is spending 110 million Euros for their module. It's intentionally replicating as many aspects of existing ISS modules as is reasonably possible to keep costs and certification difficulties down.

        We'll see if it actually gets built to budget...

    • If you want to find a crack or hole in a space station? call a russian. i mean, they find em all....
  • The entire space station is modular. There's no reason any module can't be replaced and rotated on an ongoing basis (its really just a cost thing). We could keep maintaining the space station indefinitely, replacing things as we go along.
    Space Station of Theseus

    • Re:Modular (Score:5, Insightful)

      by mike.mondy ( 524326 ) on Monday August 30, 2021 @10:19PM (#61747301)

      The entire space station is modular. There's no reason any module can't be replaced and rotated on an ongoing basis (its really just a cost thing). We could keep maintaining the space station indefinitely, replacing things as we go along.
      Space Station of Theseus

      It was designed to be built in a modular fashion. That doesn't actually mean that it's also designed to be taken apart. Russia did recently toss off an old docking port. But most of the modules are too intertwined with cabling and stuff for it to be feasible to remove them. Design work on the ISS started in the 1980s. We've learned a lot since then. If we're going to send up tons of new stuff, we might as well build a new station with an updated architecture.

      • Having a few retrofitted connectors doesn't stop it from being modular.

        Axiom Space is connecting their commercial crew quarters module in 2024, and the Russians are disconnecting their module in 2025. One of the reasons for those extra wires here and there is that Russian module; the Russians insist on providing the services to the station that it was agreed they would be allowed to provide. Axiom will need one launch in early 2025 to provide a replacement, and now everything can be updated with nobody stan

      • If we're going to send up tons of new stuff, we might as well build a new station with an updated architecture.

        And Blackjack! And Hookers!

      • It was designed to be built in a modular fashion. That doesn't actually mean that it's also designed to be taken apart. Russia did recently toss off an old docking port. But most of the modules are too intertwined with cabling and stuff for it to be feasible to remove them. Design work on the ISS started in the 1980s. We've learned a lot since then. If we're going to send up tons of new stuff, we might as well build a new station with an updated architecture.

        A major benefit of the space station is simply the amount of space. It's much cheaper to keep things up that are already up than it is to boost the same stuff to orbit. Even if there was a start on a new architecture, dividing the station in half and keeping some bits to re-connect to the new bits for a period of time could make real sense. Even if you got rid of those modules five years later, it would mean you can start your "new" space station with a large functional size from the beginning.

  • Stopping a crack (Score:5, Funny)

    by PPH ( 736903 ) on Monday August 30, 2021 @10:06PM (#61747269)

    Simple. Just drill holes [slashdot.org] in the ends of one.

  • spray-on truck bed liner in an aerosol can.

  • ...for all these Russian modules. Same as they had the plans for the Space Shuttle.

    Time to whip up some replacements. Maybe they can entice Bezos and his PeenRocket to start Amazon Prime Delivery of parts.

  • So he could get a ride home early

  • Thermal cycling (Score:5, Interesting)

    by RightwingNutjob ( 1302813 ) on Monday August 30, 2021 @10:26PM (#61747323)

    I forget the exact ratios, but at the space station's inclination, something like half or two thirds of the time it will experience full eclipse on every orbit for something like 20 minutes before coming into full sunlight again. 14 times a day. For decades.

    You try building something that gets whacked between full sunlight and cold space every two hours without cracking eventually.

    • Direct sunlight, too. Not surface sunlight. The real shit.
      It's incredible any kind of metal fittings survive that for any appreciable amount of time, nevermind 2 decades.

      • +1 Thermal Stress.

        Sadly, this is what took out the spacecraft that on which I'd first had equipment I'd worked on. ADEOS (launch 1997) had our NASA Scatterometer onboard. The solar panels were deployed on a long (40 m ?) aluminum boom that was extended from the frame. The solar panels themselves were hinged, like an accordion, and the hinges were a polymer. The stainless steel cable that pulled the folded panels out from the bus ran through the aluminum boom, and drew the panels taut. And therein lies the i

        • I got told a story by a guy in the know re: Hubble's solar panels. There was some cte mismatch in the truss or the boom or something and the punchline is that a few minutes *after* entering or leaving eclipse, stuff would start scaping against other stuff and the nice steady pointing that let you have deep exposures was considerably more shaky than the specification called for.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Flownez ( 589611 )
      Thermal cycling isn't an issue in and of itself. Adequate optimisation of of strain and stress relief in a structure can reduce deformities and stress impacts of thermal cycling to negligible levels. Insulation, material choice (expansion coefficients, etc) and expansion relief can all further reduce this as an issue.

      I'm not saying that preventing failure from thermal stress is an easy task, but it is certainly achievable at best, and at worst predictable, and certainly not a forgone eventuality.
      • Steel and titanium have a fatigue endurance limit too, you can have infinite cycles beneath them and you won’t get cracking. Aluminum and magnesium don’t, but you can design it to be in the millions where you would expect less than 60k thermal cycles in 10 years. Funny enough the simplest way to stop cracks in general is to drill out the crack tips to remove the stress concentration, it would be hilarious to see them fix it this way after all the extra holes.

  • Nobody going to mention fixing it with Flex Seal?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sjames ( 1099 )

      I can just see it now. Astronauts and Cosmonauts examining cracks with concerned looks, then the Flex Seal guy floats onscreen...

  • Russian Cosmonauts? (Score:4, Funny)

    by PseudoThink ( 576121 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @12:00AM (#61747505)
    Are they like regular cosmonauts but twice as Russian?
  • The recent tone of Russian communications relating to the ISS seems to indicate an increasing desire to exit from the ISS project. Given the recent Nauka module mishaps, the Auñón-Chancellor sabotage accusations, and the warming China/Russia relationship, one could be forgiven for suspecting an ulterior motive.

    • The recent tone of Russian communications relating to the ISS seems to indicate an increasing desire to exit from the ISS project. Given the recent Nauka module mishaps, the Auñón-Chancellor sabotage accusations, and the warming China/Russia relationship, one could be forgiven for suspecting an ulterior motive.

      Russia's space program is one of their few sources of internationally recognized pride. If they exit the ISS, they can't go to the Chinese station - the Chinese station is in an orbit that can't be reached by by the rockets Russia launches. The Russians can launch to the ISS because the ISS was put in in an arguably suboptimal orbit so that the Russians can reach it. Russia has a much smaller economy than most people realize, so it seems unlikely they can build a new station on their own even if they

    • The other funny thing about Russia's recent behavior is that the ISS can easily keep going without Russian modules, but the Russian segment would have difficulty being self sufficient. They would immediately have power and cooling issues without the solar wings attached to the International segment. While they have some solar and cooling, it isn't very much.

  • Oh! Having a crack on a space station must ... suck!
  • While Trump and now Biden are playing with getting a lander on the moon, we really need to have MULTIPLE private space stations. These are needed for training and testing purposes. It is twisted that NASA is missing such an important piece.

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