Calls Grow to Discipline Doctors Spreading Virus Misinformation Online (nytimes.com) 450
The New York Times tells the story of an Indiana physician spreading misinformation about the pandemic.
Public health officials say statements like his have contributed to America's vaccine hesitancy and resistance to mask-wearing, exacerbating the pandemic.
His videos "have amassed nearly 100 million likes and shares on Facebook, 6.2 million views on Twitter, at least 2.8 million views on YouTube and over 940,000 video views on Instagram."
His talk's popularity points to one of the more striking paradoxes of the pandemic. Even as many doctors fight to save the lives of people sick with Covid-19, a tiny number of their medical peers have had an outsize influence at propelling false and misleading information about the virus and vaccines.
Now there is a growing call among medical groups to discipline physicians spreading incorrect information. The Federation of State Medical Boards, which represents the groups that license and discipline doctors, recommended last month that states consider action against doctors who share false medical claims, including suspending or revoking medical licenses. The American Medical Association says spreading misinformation violates the code of ethics that licensed doctors agree to follow.
"When a doctor speaks, people pay attention," said Dr. Humayun Chaudhry, president of the Federation of State Medical Boards. "The title of being a physician lends credibility to what people say to the general public. That's why it is so important that these doctors don't spread misinformation."
Now there is a growing call among medical groups to discipline physicians spreading incorrect information. The Federation of State Medical Boards, which represents the groups that license and discipline doctors, recommended last month that states consider action against doctors who share false medical claims, including suspending or revoking medical licenses. The American Medical Association says spreading misinformation violates the code of ethics that licensed doctors agree to follow.
"When a doctor speaks, people pay attention," said Dr. Humayun Chaudhry, president of the Federation of State Medical Boards. "The title of being a physician lends credibility to what people say to the general public. That's why it is so important that these doctors don't spread misinformation."
Same as happens to lawyers (Score:4, Insightful)
The people who brought fake lawsuits for the 2020 election are now being sanctioned [cbsnews.com] and face the prospect of disbarrment [forbes.com].
Lying Rudy is already suspended from practicing law [cnn.com] in New York state.
Doctors who do the equivalent by spreading lies or recommending medications which have no basis in reality to be given to a person for their condition should be dealt with in the same manner.
Re:Same as happens to lawyers (Score:5, Insightful)
Not quite the same because the objectives are different. However the exploitation of people's basic preference to believe what they want to believe is quite similar.
The more I think about it, the more strongly I want to recommend The Enigma of Reason by Mercier and Sperber. One of the basic themes is that we are quite good at producing reasons for our actions and even for our beliefs, but bad at assessing our OWN reasons. They call it "myside bias" as a subset of "confirmation bias". We actually tend to act (or believe) first, without much thought, but then when questioned we are quick to explain, and those reasons, especially the first ones, tend to be strongly biased in our own favor.
At the same time, they note that we tend to be much more accurate in assessing the validity of other people's reasons, even when they don't confirm our preferred side. Until now, that has usually worked out over the long term because the bad ideas with weak reasons tended to die off. But the Internet may have changed the dynamics, because the bad reasons can make up in 'virtual' quantity what they lack in quality. Yeah, there are only a couple of incompetent physicians (or worse lawyers) giving bad medical (or legal) advice with faulty reasons, but their advice can be copied and shared and replicated in the millions and billions. (I scare quoted 'virtual' because in such cases the number of distinct reasons and distinct sources is generally quite small, but orchestrated for maximum impact.)
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(I should have said the bad lawyers are giving illegal advice.)
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That's because you're an idiot who doesn't comprehend that belief in Sky Deity predates society with a "population" somebody is even trying to "control," and the root use case is actually to comfort the originator of the belief.
Your status as an ejumaktid persun is hereby revoked.
Re: Same as happens to lawyers (Score:5, Insightful)
"We" are not punishing people for speech here. These are professional organizations, not the government, who are recommending sanctions for people who would spread misinformation that could get people killed.
Re: Same as happens to lawyers (Score:5, Insightful)
We do not punish people for speech here.
Yes, we do [cbsnews.com]. It's the same reason people would be punished for yelling FIRE! in a crowded theater when there is no fire.
Also, you might want to take a look at 18 USC Chapter 115 [house.gov]. Anywhere the word 'inicte' is used it means through speech whether spoken, written or broadcast in some manner. 2385 has entire sections devoted to using speech to cause sedition and the criminal penalties therein, as do 2387 and 2388.
Or at least, we absolutely should not.
We shouldn't punish people who lie about something which in turn leads to injury or death to someone else? There should be no repercussions for something saying you're a rapist? That you're a child rapist?
People have the right to free speech. They are not free from the consequences of that speech.
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We shouldn't punish people who lie about something which in turn leads to injury or death to someone else?
I'm all for that, when applied appropriately. That would put the pharmaceutical industry out of business in a New York minute.
Re: Same as happens to lawyers (Score:4, Informative)
"It's the same reason people would be punished for yelling FIRE! in a crowded theater when there is no fire."
Wrong. The original fire in crowded theater was by Justice Holmes in 1919 in relation to people speaking out opposing the draft (you should be allowed to speak to oppose the draft in wartime). This this overturned in the 60's with Brandenburg v. Ohio in that you cannot incite unlawful action (ie - riots) but you can yell fire in a crowded theater.
Re: Same as happens to lawyers (Score:5, Informative)
They can believe whatever they want personally. But we live in a society and we have rules and one of those rules is we don't let the Dr Mengeles of the world practice their quack science on patients who don't know any better.
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Doctors should be held to the official line, but medical practitioners should be allowed to recommend freely
What, in your mind, is the difference between a doctor and a "medical practitioner"? We have strict laws about that in this country.
Today's Level of Discourse (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Today's Level of Discourse (Score:5, Insightful)
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Almost everything you believe is "fact" is nothing more than opinion. We know our best models in science are wrong and incomplete. Last week vaccinations were better than natural immunity, this week maybe not.
https://science.slashdot.org/s... [slashdot.org]
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What are you on about? I didn't claim science had any failures at all, only pointed out the nature of the thing. "Truth" isn't here in the science room, that's philosophy down the hall. You suck at both thinking and understanding what science is.
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Diversity of opinion is great. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everyone is not entitled to their own facts.
The problem is that yesterday's 'opinions' become today's facts. Truth will win out over time, but if you naively take the first thing that looks like 'the facts' and don't give any room for revision, you end up propagating falsehoods in the name of 'preventing misinformation'.
A great example of this is masks. We were told they didn't work - oh wait they do - oh wait maybe they don't - oh wait they really really do, wear two. Did any of those changes in The Truth(tm) actually affect whether or not masks w
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The problem is that yesterday's 'opinions' become today's facts.
No. The *problem* is that today's opinions are being represented as today's facts.
The rest of your post is a distraction. A reasonable person can hold the knowledge that truth and facts do indeed evolve, while at the same time understanding that some opinions and hypotheses are without any merit whatsoever.
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The problem is that a "fact" is not necessarily that which is believed to be true.
So the correct answer is that nobody who represents the official medical position is allowed to make statements violating it's agreed position. This is more Pravda than Truth, but it's what we can really deal with.
And my solution to the problem is that those who don't want to represent the official medical position should not be able to claim titles as if they did represent it. This doesn't mean they should be prevented from
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"dark matter" is just data that shows that there is something in the Universe that exerts gravity but we can't observer or detect. There are no serious Physicits that refutes the validity of the data showing this effect on Galaxies and the CMB.
"String Theory" is a highly speculative theory with no verified predictions to back it up. Even among Physicists working on String theory, there are many that doubt its validity as the foundation of our own Universe and work on it because of the insights we can get o
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Everyone is not entitled to their own facts.
String theory and dark matter coming right up.
You seem to be confusing unproven hypotheses with facts. Try again.
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You are free from the government to not infringe your speech. The doctors are also free to be sanctioned by their peers.
Re: Today's Level of Discourse (Score:5, Insightful)
You are free from the government to not infringe your speech.
Yes, but this "we don't punish free speech here" argument is getting tiresome.
Your free speech can also be libel. Your free speech can also be slander. Your free speech can also be incitement. Your free speech can also disclose proprietary or secret information. Your free speech can also be harassment.
You are free from the government gagging you to prevent you from doing any of these things. But once you do them, your actions are criminal and punishable.
Re: Today's Level of Discourse (Score:5, Insightful)
Next you're going to tell me if a doctor wants to prescribe me, an opioid naive person, 800mg of oxycodone for my stubbed toe, because he doesn't believe in the standard textbook values for opioid LD50s, that's also free speech. Get the point now? Everyone else is just lying about that being 10x a lethal dose, he's free to prescribe as he wants? Jackass. He'd be in jail for murder.
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there is no data on even if lvermectin is safe on humans never mind effective against Covid
Totally false. The media line of "ivermectin is a horse de-wormer" misrepresents the facts. There are multiple on-label uses of ivermectin in humans. (On-label means it has been studied, subjected to trials, and approved by the FDA.) Some off-label applications have also been tried. To publicly proclaim the safety and efficacy of off-label uses, however, is tantamount to medical malpractice.
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Interesting, isn't it, how today anyone who propounds a belief contrary to the accepted narrative is "spreading misinformation" and needs to be silenced. .
Are you saying demon sperm and alien DNA [thedailybeast.com] are real?
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Interesting, isn't it, how today anyone who propounds a belief contrary to the accepted narrative is "spreading misinformation" and needs to be silenced. I remember a time when diversity of opinion was generally viewed as a strength of our society. But then, I'm old.
Interesting, isn't it, how today anyone who propounds a belief contrary supports their right to do so as "My Freedoms!" and needs to be allowed to do so. I remember a time when holding people accountable for their public actions was generally viewed as a strength of our society. But then, I'm old.
It's called a medical license (Score:5, Insightful)
If these docs want to conduct a study under strict medical and ethical guidelines they're welcome to. Such studies were conducted for Ivermectim & hydroxychloroquine and they were found ineffective. They're welcome to challenge those studies in the medical press. What they are not welcome to do it challenge them in the public space and with zero evidence. That is medical malpractice and it gets you stuff like children being tortured for a quick buck. [youtube.com]
Re:Today's Level of Discourse (Score:4, Insightful)
The only complication is the medical boards reluctance to hold doctors accountable. We are suing pharmaceutical companies for making the drugs, but are not doing anything with the doctors running pill mills. They are getting probation for contributing to the death of 70,000 Americans a year. We canâ(TM)t get past the white lab coat wall.
The COVID vaccines has been administered to a third of the world. It has been monitored with greater Viking Ian every than probably any drug roll out. The short term risks, which are slight, are known and much less than a Covid infection. The long term effects are frankly as unknown as Covid, it we know Covid does have significant long term consequences.
Doctors who create drama around vaccines are not professional.
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This is why we need to teach philosophy in schools. Folks don't know how to think. Even worse is you're old (or you claim) so you should have at least some vague familiarity with concepts of epistemology.
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Interesting, isn't it, how today anyone who propounds a belief contrary to the accepted narrative is "spreading misinformation" and needs to be silenced.
When a belief has been repeatedly shown to be false yet that belief is still held and disseminated, it is spreading misinformation. This is no different than people saying the Earth is flat when factually we know it is round (or rather, an oblate spheroid).
Further, when that belief causes injury or death to others, yes, it should be silenced. Or are you o
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It's amazing that a story about a specific group of people, doctors, saying demonstrably false things (vaccines and masks don't work) while using their professional credentials to give weight to their statements might be subject to the profession's oversight board for discipline is interpreted as anyone saying anything is silenced.
Notice in this story it is not anyone. It is doctors. It is not about propounding beliefs. It is saying things that are demonstrably not true. And they are not being silenced. The
Great for Debates, not for Medical Advice (Score:3)
However, the context here is different. You go to a doctor for expert medical advice and you usually do not question what he says and debate whether s/h
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BUT, the difference is that was on a university setting and it was impossible to prove/disprove what he claimed.
With this guy, and others like him, it is TRIVIAL to disprove what he is saying. In addition, he is not trying to do this in a university setting, but in general public, while making $ off o
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Reaction time as a surrogate for intelligence is... an interesting choice.
People in the past were dumbasses too. Our current communications systems favour simple, emphatic messages. The stupid are good at these, so we hear lots of them today.
IQ is falling in many countries though, and has been for a while: https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/13... [cnn.com]
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If you've ever wondered how countries succumb to totalitarian regimes - I don't think you need to wonder any more.
Failure to agree 100% with the party line makes you the enemy. The true believers are trying establishing paradise on earth, but you are standing in the way.
Revoke medical licenses (Score:4, Insightful)
The Federation of State Medical Boards, which represents the groups that license and discipline doctors, recommended last month that states consider action against doctors who share false medical claims, including suspending or revoking medical licenses. The American Medical Association says spreading misinformation violates the code of ethics that licensed doctors agree to follow.
Something does need to be done when these "doctors" are prescribing ivermectin to prisoners [apnews.com] and advising governors [miamiherald.com] on their false belief that it's an effective, safe, and inexpensive alternative to vaccination.
Banning professional disagreements? (Score:3, Insightful)
Not that cranks can't appear in any profession, but this isn't really the same thing as sitting on a guy yelling "fire!" in a theatre. Presumably, a doctor has some credentials and training to speak to medical matters.
The guy who discovered ulcers are usually caused by bacteria was considered a crank too. I don't think I like the precedent this is setting.
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Does that mean there should be no sanctions if the foot doctor speaks about hemorrhoids?
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Does that mean there should be no sanctions if the foot doctor speaks about hemorrhoids?
There should be no sanctions because we a) can't know what is actually true without benefit of retrospective b) can't be trusted to not use sanctions as a political weapon.
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A foot doctor, a podiatrist, will study general medicine for half of their education in an accredited podiatric medical school, after which they'll do residency for four years. So yes, they could indeed speak knowledgeably about the subject of hemorrhoids.
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Presumably, a doctor has some credentials and training to speak to medical matters.
Like how gynecological problems like cysts and endometriosis are caused by people having sex in their dreams with demons and witches/a.? [thedailybeast.com]
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All the claims that this doc is saying are trivial to disprove.
Unprofessional Disagreement (Score:5, Insightful)
The guy who discovered ulcers are usually caused by bacteria was considered a crank too.
Yes, he was but his response was both ethical and professional because he debated his evidence within the medical community with experts in the field and produced copious amounts of evidence to back up his apparently outlandish claims. The result what that, supported by the evidence he convinced his field that he was right and now all medical professionals everywhere use his discovery to treat people. As a result, he won the Nobel Prize in Medicine.
Contrast that to this nutter who is clearly holding the debate with the public who lack the expertise and knowledge to judge whether his claims are valid or not. This is not the action of someone who honestly believes that they are right and is seeking to change the approach the medical profession is using. This is the action of an idiot who, contrary to all the evidence, just believes they must be right so they unethically use the authority of their profession to state their opinion as if it were carefully considered and debated medical advice. That's the very opposite of a professional disagreement: it's unethical and unprofessional.
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Re:Banning professional disagreements? (Score:5, Insightful)
Not that cranks can't appear in any profession, but this isn't really the same thing as sitting on a guy yelling "fire!" in a theatre. Presumably, a doctor has some credentials and training to speak to medical matters.
The guy who discovered ulcers are usually caused by bacteria was considered a crank too. I don't think I like the precedent this is setting.
Yes but you see Marshall and Warren provided evidence to be peer reviewed and experiments that could be reproduced. These people are doing none of that. They are simply using their position as an "authority" to knowingly spread information that has no basis in evidence and is not backed by results from repeatable experiments. The fact that they do have training and credentials yet still espouse these beliefs with no peer reviewed reproducible evidence is all the more frightening given their position as a supposedly trusted expert which means that either they are incredibly incompetent or it is all intentional malfeasance.
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The ulcer guy proved his theory through trials and research. As soon as these other people do that I will believe them.
This Isn't a professional disagreement (Score:2)
Sue for malpractice (Score:2)
JAIL THEM. (Score:3, Insightful)
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Your comment is heartless, ignorant, and belies a S
Here we go again... (Score:5, Interesting)
Every single freaking time a topic about covid pops-up on /. the same thing happens over and over again. Hords of posts about the same usual things:
"freedom of speech baby !"
"misinformation = everything some group (usually liberals) disagrees with"
"arbitrators of truth"
"accepted narrative"
"nanny state"
"let me decide what's true and what's misinformation"
"slippery slope"
"experts are clueless but random people on youtube are torally trustworthy"
blah blah blah
I have 15 mod points right now. Instead of making this post, I could have used them to mod every single one of these posts "redundant", because that's exactly what they are. But why bother ? They'll just post the same useless repetitive crap all over again in the next thread.
You know what sucks the most about getting older ? It's not the glasses, or the minor health issues; it's not even watching the people you love die one after the other.
No, what sucks the most about getting older is realizing that there is no hope for humanity, that human beings are a failed, miserable, evolutionary dead-end cancer of a species. That every generation that learns about reality through joyful experiences, love, but also through heartbreak, pain, and suffering sees the following generation throw all that away and suffer through the same easily preventable pain and heartbreak, just to arrive to the same conclusions you did, only 50 years later.
Check history: Everything about this pandemic is panning out exactly how it did in all previous pandemics throughout history: The panic, desperation, distrust, disinformation, polarization, snake-oil, etc. We may have cellphones and microsurgery and quantum physics and GPS, but humanity has learned nothing. We are still the same savage, primitive, tribal, superstitious, reality-avoiding cro-magnon that we were when we still living in caves.
I wish I had a better grasp of the english language to better express how this pandememic, or rather people's reactions to it, make me feel. You know: history repeating itself, not learning from past mistakes, etc etc. But that's ok. I already spend to much time of my precious life on this trainwreck, this nest-of-losers site anyway. I'd rather spend the few precious years I have left to enjoy this wonderfull planet of ours and the company of the people I love, while I still have them in my life, before covid takes more of them than it already did away from me.
As for the rest of humanity, they can all burn in hell, for all I care.
You'd have said "You know nothing John Snow" (Score:2)
Then you'd know that your own complaint is redundant, right? Every new generation has to learn things all over again. I note that you don't bother to post actual rebuttals for any of those points, you just gesture at the problem itself incoherently as if that's an answer. As if to say, there is a problem, we must do something, this is something, therefore we must do this. Never mind doctors especially should know that not all interventions are good ("first do no harm"). And this particular one has been
The problem is not just 1st amendment (Score:5, Insightful)
In fact, this is exactly why Tenure was developed. It allows researchers the ability to speak out against what is considered normal dogma.
We have seen a good case of this. Back in the 80s, it was commonly accepted that Duodenal ulcers were being caused by genetics and stress. In fact, multiple drugs were developed to treat it that became the best sellers. Then 2 docs from Australia proved that the majority were cause by a spirochete (Helicobacter). So many docs rejected what they said that they had to infect themselves and treat it for them to be believed. Now, the ulcers are down at the rate of what a genetic disease should be. There are others like this (psoriasis will turn out to be some sort of bug since its growth rate does not match with genetic disease as is claimed).
With that said, this doc needs to have his license revoked. Once he claimed that the vaccine is ineffective and is obviously doing a great job with delta (97% of all covid in hospital are unvaccinated; 99+% of all current covid deaths are unvaccinated), he was lying and he knew it. Basically, he is no different than Mercola and the rest of that trash.
But with that said, we need to avoid going after MD/researchers for preaching what goes against dogma.
Re:The problem is not just 1st amendment (Score:4, Insightful)
But with that said, we need to avoid going after MD/researchers for preaching what goes against dogma.
There's well accepted ways to go against dogma. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that giving a speech to a school board, recording it, and then spreading it on Youtube is not the accepted ways.
Even if he was correct he deserves to have his license suspended. The medical world should not ever be based on public opinion (there's a reason why in many countries you're not even allowed to advertise pharmaceuticals).
fire the current administration (Score:2, Interesting)
In my home state, the Governor relaxed the covid rules so she could protest and get glamor shots in all the newspapers.
How about when prominent Democrats went on TV and said they didn't trust the vaccine beca
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What rights are you crying about being stripped anyways?
Have you been a cave for the last two years? Freedom of movement is restricted by lockdowns. Freedom of speech is restricted by medical censorship. Body autonomy is restricted by being forced to take a vaccine or wear a mask. Specific enough for you? Jesus it's like you just crawled out from under a rock, squinting around yelling "What is all this noise!?"
Creating the problem, selling the solution (Score:3)
I'm a car mechanic by trade. If I was to give people advice that would damage their cars in hopes they'd come to my garage for repairs, I would be arrested, fined, jailed, and the garage would be sued into a parking lot if it came out. I don't see how this is any different.
Re: If you can't question something (Score:3)
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Suspend the doctor for not following the health orders (as the Oregon Medical Board did). Suspending them for their opinion and talking about it is nothing but fascism and violates the First Amendment.
There are questions and then there are questions (Score:2)
If you have to feed the trolls, then at least you should change the Subject, especially when propagating the Subject is accomplishing the objective of the trolls.
There are questions that are asked in search of the truth.
There are questions that are asked because the truth is not satisfying.
Then there are questions that are asked to disguise harmful statements that could get you arrested or sued. "I was only asking a question!" (Or in the form of a recursive joke: "Can't a guy ask a question around here?")
Th
Re:If you can't question something (Score:5, Insightful)
The world is more complex than you want to believe.
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Everything is untested and unproven until it gets thoroughly tested and either proven or disproven.
If noone is pushing things to be tested, they never will be tested and we never will find out.
And there is an important difference between unproven and disproven.
If you're sick and dying, do you do nothing and wait to die - or are you willing to try an unproven treatment that might help?
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A professional providing you with misinformation in a professional capacity is grounds to revoke their certification at best, a crime at worst.
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Iivermectin does have evidence that it's effective. Unfortunately, the dose shown to be effective is above the ld50 in humans.
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So, you're saying this problem will solve itself if we just wait?
Herd immunity by thinning the herd.
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It is a lie.
The COVID-19 vaccines in use in the west have been questioned systematically & rigorously by qualified experts over several months to ensure that it's both safe & effective. Then their methods, data, analyses & conclusions have been questioned by yet more qualified experts to make sure they didn't get anything wrong or miss anything.
So your question was?
Re: If you can't question something (Score:5, Insightful)
Spreading virus misinformation during a pandemic is not a free speech issue. It is a public health issue and a crime. There are those who would use "Free Speech" as a weapon to put lives in danger, even when their fee speech is not being threatened by the State.
Professional organizations like medical boards do not have any requirement under the US Constitution to respect the speech of those who would do harm.
Re: If you can't question something (Score:5, Insightful)
What misinformation? A dissenting opinion is not misinformation.
Claims that e.g. invermectin works; or masks don't or vaccines are dangerous. "opinion" is separate from "fact" the above are clear facts.
Who decides what is the truth? Did you notice that they are not calling these people liars?
Medical doctors are members of medical associations who decide truth. E.g. it used to be believed that Radium water was a miracle cure. If a doctor started giving it to patients today they would be struck off. Doctors regularly get struck off [scotsman.com] for trying to push quack medical treatments.
There are shades of truth of course; radium water obviously dangerous; invermectin obviously wrong; acupuncture works sometimes; paracetamol good for some things, bad for others; exercise mostly good. AED strongly indicated for heart attack etc. Nobody will strike off a doctor for being for or against acupuncture for pain relief. On the other hand, a doctor who now tells his patients that masks don't work should be on pretty shaky grounds.
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People who really have truth on their side aren't afraid of people dissenting. Of course, I've known a lot of real scientists and not one claimed they had "The Truth". Well, a couple of my physicist friends claimed to "The Truth".
Maybe you only know fake scientists?
Anyway, to help you out, science works by dissenting opinion. Everything is a fact until it's not.
Radium water was good for you (i.e. The Truth), until it was bad for you (i.e. The Truth). By your own admission, you admit science doesn
Re: If you can't question something (Score:4, Informative)
Huge news except it's not true. The medical association you're referring to has recommended AGAINST using ivermectin for COVID, and it has NOT been authorized for use by the Japanese government.
https://www.techarp.com/scienc... [techarp.com]
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Haruo Ozaki is not Japan's top medical professional. Japan's top medical professionals have warned against using it for COVID patients.
Here's the biggest ivermectin/COVID study, which showed that ivermectin does not help with COVID and in fact, COVID patients who took ivermectin required a higher rate of invasive ventilation and sooner than patients who did not take ivermectin.
https://bmcinfectdis.biomedc [biomedcentral.com]
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A dissenting opinion is not misinformation. The fact someone disagrees is information.
Oh, bulshit. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Everyone is NOT entitled to their own facts. "Misinformation" is just another word for "lie".
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So if you see a doctor about a mildly infected ingrown toenail and he recommends an above the knee amputation "just to make sure", you're fine with that?
The example, and the misinformation in question are both malpractice.A pattern of malpractice over time normally results in loss of medical license.
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https://twitter.com/TheEliKlei... [twitter.com]
Twitter now also has 'misleading' tags.
Re: If you can't question something (Score:4, Insightful)
Broadly, but obviously still more nuanced of course, it is when the government passes a law that restricts what you can or cannot say. It is certainly not the case here, or in virtually any other case right wing complainers ever scream about. E.g., twitter/facebook bans, Dr. Seuss, Mr. Potato Head. It's amazing how you snowflakes (since you love throwing out labels) don't seem to understand that.
And by the way, as individuals we can try to suppress any speech we want as long as the government is not involved. Not to mention the right absolutely loves to try to suppress speech it doesn't like. E.g., Critical Race Theory. You only seem to complain when it's your side gets criticized.
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Are vegetarians less prone to a severe COVID-19 illness? [youtu.be]
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Sorry, but declining vaccine efficiency was expected from day one. We still don't know the origin of COVID, but a lab leak is below the 50% line, wearing masks was a misinterpretation of "save the limited supply of N-95 masks for those most exposed" that got spread wildly in a simplified form, and "airborne COVID spread" was in the unproven category for a lot longer than was reasonable, but that was partially due to the difficulty of distinguishing between aerosol spread and fomite spread. It did turn out
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Then let the experts amongst each other discuss the various treatments and come to a consensus after there's ACTUAL fucking EVIDENCE/PROOF of such treatments working.
Don't fucking give advice to the dumb masses that e.g. HCQ and Zinc work, when there's yet to be any proof whatsoever. All it does it cause rush and panic over various drugs, and methods and cause deaths that shouldn't have occurred in the first place.
Re: Killing a fly with explosives (Score:2)
I concur.
And what's more, I vehemently defended this exact mindset around March and April of 2020 when knee-jerk panicked edicts to lock down and close down child care centers (only to allow some of them to stay open as "emergency child care centers" for "essential workers") were issued without thought or consideration to both long and short term costs or effectiveness at stopping covid, considering that many people's answer to losing child care was to call in elderly relatives who would have been at higher
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I see you're living up to your handle.
Panic is rarely useful, but conservative safety measures often are until the exact parameters of the danger are understood. They can be a mistake, but not as often as the converse.
FWIW, the "child care centers" were probably a bad idea, but what the alternative was isn't clear. (Yes, calling in elderly relatives was a worse idea.)
Re: Killing a fly with explosives (Score:2)
What you say is true.
What is also true is that the nuanced train of thought you expressed in all of three sentences was and remains lightyears above the capacity of the "follow the science brigade" that latched onto masks and lockdowns as some sort of magical costless cure-all religous totem and hasn't yet let go in spite of new information.
People who look at actual data on childhood covid cases and see it's on par with influenza and RSV in terms of seriousness but still jump to the conclusion that avoiding
Re: (Score:2)
Spot on.
Re:Three things this doctor said. (Score:5, Insightful)
Mask do not slow down the spread? Here are 172 studies that says otherwise [thelancet.com]
Cocktail of drugs that help but research is being suppressed? BS. NOTHING has been suppressed. A number of articles that were peer reviewed were rejected for being total BS, but these were then put in quack journals.
It is certainly true that breakthrough cases are evidence against the vaccines being effective. You can play games parsing words to try to make this a lie ("Well they're still 40% effective! Well they're still mostly effective against serious illness"), but it's not.
WOW. What a line of BS is this! Vaccines do NOT prevent infection. Fact is, that even when you are vaccinated against something and it appears that it is working, you are STILL BEING INFECTED. All a vaccine does is prime your bodies immune system to fight it. We have millions of t-cells that produce antibodies. However, at any time, there may only be 100 of them per type of antigen. When they see the antigen they match with, they multiple. The vaccines simply provide the antigen to stimulate the t-cell and cause it to multiple.
So, why are vaccinated ppl showing up with delta? Because the original infected person is no longer spreading say 100 virons, but instead a MILLION virons. As such, the newly infected person will show some amount of infection. BUT, if the vaccine is working, then it will be a LIGHT infection, which is exactly what we are seeing.
As of now, 97% of all ppl in ICU on ventilators are UNVACCINATED. If the vaccine did not work, then the % would match with the numbers. IOW, some 40-60% of the sick would be vaccinated, instead of only 3%.
And when it comes from dying from covid today, less than 1% are vaccinated. More than 99% of all the current covid dead are unvaccinated.
So, quit spreading lies.
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You're putting your trust in a Gish Gallop from the journal that rushed to publish fake research [thelancet.com] that fit your agenda.
Most vaccines do indeed prevent infection. MMR, pertussis, polio, chicken pox, etc.
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I had to beat your Mom for spreading misinformation. Her chancres are not my fault or from me in any way.
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The facts have already been widely disseminated and should be familiar to everyone by now. That you choose to ignore them merely demonstrates your stubborn ignorance.
Re: Liberal Logic 101 (Score:3)
Re: Liberal Logic 101 (Score:4, Informative)
Too many politicians pandered to peoples opinions rather than always following best practices. We do naturally like to take risks some of us more than others. I have friends in the mining industry that work in areas where the risk of a really horrible death is quite high. They pretty much ignored most of the public health rules until they figured out it wasn't just them in harm's way. It's too bad that it didn't leave nasty boils on our faces for life; people would have been more compliant IMHO.
They often have permanent cardiopulmonary effects, occasional amputations, and apparentyl 1 out of 3 have mental issues be it permanent Mental fog or worse.
At this point - I fully support non vaccinated people getting whatever happens to them. This iis a situation they demanded, they ridicule the vaccinated, and tend to keep that opinion until they are put in an an artificial coma to get their reward for whatever they thought they were doing.
Caleb wallace a hightly regarded person and anti vaccine rally organizer in Texas is dead at 30 https://www.star-telegram.com/... [star-telegram.com]
When he first came down with covid, as a person who knows that Ivermectino was the real treatment that worked, he self treated. Cattle anti worm and parasite medicine only stands to reason tha tit will work agains a flu virus.
He leaves behind a wife and 3 children, I feel badly for the children, who are left being raised by a single mom.
Him? He made his choice to not vaccinate, and once sick, to take livestock anti wormer. Sympathy for people who die for their convictions is not needed. He should be more thought of as the standard bearer, the ultimate hero of the Anti-Vaxxer movement. He worked hard for that unnecessary death at 30. Remember everyone Take your ivermectin. We used to give the apple flavored paste to our horse. Unless you want to get that extra strength bovine one - you mainline that stuff. It's a whole new reason to go to the ER! https://arstechnica.com/scienc... [arstechnica.com] I do supose if you kill yourself with ivermectin - you 100 percent will not get Covid-19. So they have that going for them.
I just wonder what their next miracle drug will be?