France Issues Moratorium on Prion Research After Fatal Brain Disease Strikes Two Lab Workers (sciencemag.org) 105
Five public research institutions in France have imposed a 3-month moratorium on the study of prions -- a class of misfolding, infectious proteins that cause fatal brain diseases -- after a retired lab worker who handled prions in the past was diagnosed with Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD), the most common prion disease in humans. From a report: An investigation is underway to find out whether the patient, who worked at a lab run by the National Research Institute for Agriculture, Food and Environment (INRAE), contracted the disease on the job. If so, it would be the second such case in France in the past few years. In June 2019, an INRAE lab worker named Emilie Jaumain died at age 33, 10 years after pricking her thumb during an experiment with prion-infected mice. Her family is now suing INRAE for manslaughter and endangering life; her illness had already led to tightened safety measures at French prion labs.
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From prion diseases? Obviously they're pretty bad if you get infected. For natural infections, it's pretty hard to get infected without eating an animal or person who is infected. Maybe if someone intentionally adulterates the food supply, but not from an accidental leak.
Re: This is probably how humanity ends (Score:2)
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And what? Don't research it? When the next deadly disease outbreak happens I guess we should just throw up our hands?
Yeah, keep doing that and in a decade you'll be wondering why China is ahead of us in everything.
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I don't think there's any indication that they were modifying the prion diseases in any way, just studying them. The samples they're using were originally in the wild anyway. Sure, there might be some risk in collecting them in one place and experimenting, but there seems to be a bigger risk in not studying them at all.
Consider all the conspiracy theory stuff about Covid coming from a lab. The thing about that is, even if the outbreak originated from a lab, so did the research allowing us to vaccinate again
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You may not have realized that there's a risk difference between various types of research, with "gain of function" being the most dangerous. That's what was likely being conducted in Wuhan (as the evidence and arguments seemed to indicate a couple months ago--I don't constantly follow this issue, so new evidence or analyses may have come to light).
In other words, vaccine research is unlikely to create super-bugs, but GoF research does just that. So "whether to research viruses" is the wrong discussion.
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You may not have realized that there's a risk difference between various types of research, with "gain of function" being the most dangerous.
I did realize that. That's exactly why I said: "I don't think there's any indication that they were modifying the prion diseases in any way, just studying them". The OP was making a gloom and doom statement about this prion research, and I was pointing out that they were not doing the kind of research that would make it more dangerous, just studying it.
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Re:This is probably how humanity ends (Score:4, Funny)
It's also kind of critically important not to bite the zombies.
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Stay away from Longneck Lukowski's Cannery.
Re: This is probably how humanity ends (Score:3)
Re: This is probably how humanity ends (Score:3)
We need to do research and learn what viruses and diseases are possible and how to defend against it. Or do we not use our brains and talents, and instead wait for Mother Nature to (deservedly) do us in like she did the dinosaurs and 99 percent of species that walked the Earth? Sorry but that does not work for me. Are you planning on sitting around like a dodo-bird while nature or human rogue nations or people plots against you? Because we know how nature works, and we know that if something is possible som
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I think his point was that dangerous research into harmful medical things is going to be the end of humanity. Whether thats some scientist that wants to see what happens when you cross engineer SARs-CoV-2 with HIV, or discovering a way to make prions more invasive. These potentially weaponizing researches, even when weaponization isnt the direct intent, can be a pandoras box. Enhancing a virus should be done at locations where it takes 3 weeks to get back to civilization. Just to avoid a worst case scenario. Antarctica maybe? Then in a worst case you use incendiary explosives to wipe all biologics from the site.
There is absolutely nothing I can see indicating that they were modifying the prion diseases in any way, just studying them.
Re: This is probably how humanity ends (Score:3)
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Not saying there was.
Maybe you weren't, but your 2nd, 3rd and 4th sentences were all about modification, your first sentence was just a generalization, and your remaining sentences were all about isolating research. You did not actually say anything about studying without modifying anywhere in your post. Hence me feeling the need to point it out.
I think the grandparent was making an observation as a whole, not specific to the article
I disagree, since the original poster specifically wrote:
But prions.... yeah, I can totally see a zombie apocalypse inbound. Keep experimenting motherfuckers and see what happens.
That was nearly all of the post, except for the first sentence which was dismissing microbes and viruses as almost a solved prob
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INCINERATION will not be possible in Antarctica
Re: This is probably how humanity ends (Score:2)
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I agree with you about the high temperatures. I feel like I do have to comment about the nerve gas though. I remember way back during the Gulf war watching, on the news, as they destroyed nerve gas warheads with incendiaries. I was just a kid, but I remember thinking to myself that it was crazy to do it out in the open like that since there was no way some of the gas wasn't going to survive and get into the air. It turns out that the low levels of nerve gas soldiers were exposed to from that might be the ca
Re: This is probably how humanity ends (Score:3)
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I think the pill you were given was probably supposed to protect you from nerve gas. The medication in question is another candidate for cause of Gulf War Syndrome, ironically. As far as being anywhere near that, would they have actually told you if you were? Also, very small concentrations of some of these nerve agents can cause symptoms. Still, who knows the precise cause? They were definitely pretty irresponsible with disposing of nerve gas whether it caused Gulf War Syndrome or not.
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Atropina Belladona
Not something to prescribe lightly
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" For natural infections, it's pretty hard to get infected without eating an animal or person who is infected."
Or inhaling the smoke particles when somebody burns bodies having it, the stuff is hard to kill.
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Let's face it, unless we nuke each other out of existence, the world's population will keep on growing until people literally starve to death and all resources (like water) are exhausted.
Re: This is probably how humanity ends (Score:2)
Lab Leaks are Impossible! (Score:1)
Has anyone checked if they visited Fort Detrick?
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Promoting CCP propaganda is a new low.
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> Promoting CCP propaganda is a new low.
He's referring to the 'leak' that already happened:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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No, he's not. He's referring to the CCP propaganda claiming that Fort Detrick is the origin of Covid-19.
China: The World Health Organization Should Investigate Fort Detrick in Maryland [nationalreview.com]
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Clearly that's Chinese communist propaganda. If it had actually happened the world would have demanded that WHO inspectors be given full and unimpeded access for as long as they needed, then be allowed back in to get the *real* story after they didn't find any smoking guns, and the bastion of freedom and accountability that is the USA would of course have complied immediately.
Infectious proteins... (Score:2)
... would be a whole new nasty type of disease. They're not alive so you can't kill them, you can only destroy them with strong bleach or similar. Lets hope it requires long term exposure to cause this and isn't a case of a single molecule can trigger it.
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What do you mean "whole new"? Where you alive during Mad Cow Disease? What do you think it was?
Re:Infectious proteins... (Score:4, Funny)
Angry cattle? After all: "Don't kid yourself, Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd eat you and everyone you care about!"
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Nobody thought it was infectious to humans back then, you had to eat the meat.
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They are like super-simple viruses. Many suspect the boundary between "virus" and "prion" is fuzzy such that there may be undiscovered "organisms" anywhere in between virus and prion.
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Prions are proteins, with no genetic material of any kind. Exactly what continuum do "many" see between them and even RNA viruses?
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So essentially you agree that they reproduce.
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"So essentially you agree that they reproduce."
A better way to state this is that prions catalyze other proteins to misfold.
It's life Jim, but not as we know it (Score:1)
What exactly is the difference between "propagating" and "reproducing"? As I mention nearby, they've been shown subject to evolution: the copies are not always exact, and imperfect or mutated copies and do live (continue on).
They just found a nice shortcut and you seem jealous because you have to find a female who actually likes you and convince her to carry your dorky baby ;-)
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That's the same as reproducing. And they can evolve. [nih.gov] Viruses also trick the host to reproduce on their behalf.
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It makes copies of itself and is subject to evolution (variation & environmental selection). That's "life" in my book.
Note that parasites may "borrow" the machinery of other organizations to reproduce, metabolize, etc.
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Snowflakes don't replicate. Prions hijack host to replicate, and variations can and do live.
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If I walk around with my hand on my head, then I walk over to you and put your hand on your head, have I reproduced?
Viruses trick host cells into *making more* of themselves. Prions are ordinary proteins that are misfolded, and can cause other *already existing* proteins to misfold if they come into contact. That's certainly propagation, but someone would certainly be justified in distinguishing it from reproduction. Many people also distinguish what viruses do from proper reproduction.
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They are like super-simple viruses. Many suspect the boundary between "virus" and "prion" is fuzzy
No. Viruses and prions are completely different. There is no overlap at all. Prions are proteins. Viruses are based on RNA or DNA.
A virus has more in common with a chimpanzee than it does with a prion.
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> Prions are proteins. Viruses are based on RNA or DNA.
RNA and DNA are also proteins.
> A virus has more in common with a chimpanzee than it does with a prion.
Viruses only carry a small portion of DNA, say 1/5000th of an (altered) chimp. Prions and viruses both hijack the machinery of the host to reproduce. Prions just take a simpler route.
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One includes phosphorous one doesn't. But that's a relatively minor difference.
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RNA and DNA are also proteins.
They aren't. They are the patterns that proteins are made out of (protein encoding patterns).
DNA/RNA - made of nucleotides, which have a common base (a phosphate group linked to a five-carbon sugar), with a differentiator attached.
Protein - a structure made of amino acids
Amino acid - A carbon cored base (C + COOH + HN2) with a differentiating carbon chain which is different in each amino acid.
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Not true, prions are quite fragile outside the body like any other isolated protein if you're talking about chemicals, bleach can denature them for example.
Inside the body is another matter, no Trump Chlorox Cocktail can cure it.
https://www.nih.gov/news-event... [nih.gov]
Re:Infectious proteins... (Score:4, Interesting)
It's theoretically possible to target prions with vaccines that generate antibodies to protein sequences displayed on the prion but not the normal form of the protein. This doesn't mean it would always be possible in practice.
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Here is an example of a vaccine against a prion disease: title: "Mucosal immunization with an attenuated Salmonella vaccine partially protects white-tailed deer from chronic wasting disease": https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.go... [nih.gov]
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All the other nasty types of infectious disease are made of proteins. Prions are just the atomic unit of infectious disease. Being the atomic unit, their options for adaptation are basically nil, unlike everything more complicated.
Fake news (Score:1)
I found a guy claiming prions aren’t dangerous at all! Fire all those scientists and put them in jail for flip flopping. As a matter of fact let’s cancel Copernicus for flip flopping on the earth being the center of the universe.
This AND Monkey Pox? (Score:5, Interesting)
(also - this is terrifying!)
Re: This AND Monkey Pox? (Score:4, Informative)
Mad Cows (Score:1)
So France is moooving on from prion research.
Oh goody. (Score:2)
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Biden caused that, done. Then appointed smiling dingbat VP to be czar of issue.
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All I need now is "your planet is in imminent danger of being eaten by an enormous mutant star goat".
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My card has WW III square, maybe Israel can get in Russian face a little more regarding Syria to get that party started
Protocols (Score:2)
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If you play with shit that could potentially kill humanity if it escapes a) don't do it, b) if a is not an option, do it on a desert island.
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The problem is that a chemical or nuclear lab accident would be limited locally to whatever city/country/region had the lab. In a global world, a biological threat could spread throughout the entire world before we have even noticed the leak. Case in point with the 'rona, a guy coughed on the soup in China and the rest of the world found themselves out of jobs for years.
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Prion diseases really aren't contagious in the sense that respiratory viruses are. To get it from another human being, you'd have to eat their brain (see "kuru") or inject the proteins into your body with a needle like the unfortunate researcher.
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Mad cow and similar can't "potentially kill all humanity if it escapes", stuff has been around for at least centuries and more like from before the dawn of humans.
Animals go and come from desert islands too, in surprising ways besides the obvious ways.
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Well before humans. Prions are misfolded proteins that are more stable than their properly folded versions. They're as old as proteins themselves.
Do they do gain of funtion research (Score:2, Interesting)
Do they do gain of function research on prions?
On the hand it would be criminally insane, on the other these are infectious disease scientists so not entirely unlikely.
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> On the hand it would be criminally insane, on the other these are infectious disease scientists so not entirely unlikely.
If a strong enough argument is made, we can do GoF and minimize risk.
1. Antarctica only. Build a lovely facility there. Power it with a fission reactor of the type used by Navy ships. Domes with gardens and all. It doesn't have to suck.
2. Five Navy quarantine ships are required. Three in use at any given time. One headed South, two headed North. Each Southbound passenger spen
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And then you fall on your knees and cry at the hubris of man, as you realize that your Draconian measures were precisely the reason that that promising, young scientist turned evil and intentionally created a super-weapon to destroy humanity.
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9. GoF is banned on the other six continents. Violating the protocols must be treated as a presumptive War Crime.
I read "golf is banned", and was fully on board. %^)
Gain of function (Score:2)
Gain of function, the new phrase parroted by Fox News viewers. I'm sure Fauci will get blamed for this somehow.
So now we have: ...But her emails! ...But Benghazi! ...But his laptop! ...But gain of function!
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Don't forget about the CRT dog whistle.
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You can create various forms of prion protein with plain old DNA/RNA techniques, expose them to varies forms of scrapie and get whole new forms of scrapie.
That's how we got in this mess. Eating sheep brain with scrapies did not make humans ill, but then we fed sheep brains to cows and we got CJD.
I wonder... (Score:2)
Not as scary as methyl mercury (Score:2)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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at least methyl mercury won't get into a human and start making more methyl mercury.
prions and viruses, however....
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Viruses yes, but prions are not a concern without direct exposure. I.e. I highly recommend not going and cutting open the brain of someone who has died from CJD, but ultimately there's doubt that you can even spread this via a blood transfusion https://www.ninds.nih.gov/Diso... [nih.gov]
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prion infection by blood transfusion proved 11 years ago.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.go... [nih.gov]
Sure, not as virulent as many viral diseases but let's not forget eating infected beef is one way to get it.
Good luck proving causality (Score:2)
CJD sometimes occurs "sporadically" - a protein mis-folds inside the body randomly and starts being replicated.
It can also occur genetically, with a really tragic combination of genes.
According to an EU study [wiley.com] referenced in the CJD Wikipedia article, 87% of cases they studied were sporadic, 8% genetic, 5% iatrogenic.
Prions are much simpler than viruses - it would be a lot harder to find differences and track them back to a source. So, from a causality point of view, you're left with guessing.
A bat (Score:1)
There is no doubt they got infected at the market eating bat. No investigation needed
Disgusting lawsuit (Score:2)
In June 2019, an INRAE lab worker named Emilie Jaumain died at age 33, 10 years after pricking her thumb during an experiment with prion-infected mice. Her family is now suing INRAE for manslaughter and endangering life;
This is total BS. Anybody that is working in these arenas KNOW the possible threat to themselves. When I was working at a lab at CDC, we were required to take experimental live vaccines for West Nile, Encephalitis, and Dengue. We did this KNOWING that it could kill us, or worst yet, brain death. In addition, I had a lab accident where a mag stirrer broke a beaker. I was not paying attention and put my face down close to it to see why it was broken. But, that beaker was the radiotracer live virus that we w
Prions are how zombies start (Score:2)