Morgan Stanley's New York Office Bans Unvaccinated Staff and Clients (cnn.com) 218
Morgan Stanley plans to ban workers from its New York headquarters if they have not received a Covid-19 vaccine. The rule will apply to non-vaccinated guests and clients as well. From a report: According to a source close to the company, Morgan Stanley said in a memo to its employees in the New York metropolitan area that all staff working in buildings with a "large employee presence" are required to confirm their vaccination status by July 1. The source added that "vaccine attestation is on an honorary basis for employees, contingent workforce, clients and visitors." The company plans to expand the vaccination mandate to employees and guests in other Morgan Stanley locations in New York City and nearby Westchester starting July 12. "Operating within a fully vaccinated environment allows us to lift restrictions like the use of face coverings and the need to maintain physical distancing, returning to more normal office conditions," the source added.
vaccine attestation is on an honorary basis (Score:3, Insightful)
vaccine attestation is on an honorary basis for employees, contingent workforce, clients and visitors
While it make sense to keep unvaccinated idiots* out of their building, I doubt an honorary attestation will have much of an effect. And it wouldn't make sense to check proof of vaccination for every client getting in anyways.
*not including kids, people with special medical conditions who can't get the vaccine, and people out of the USA who haven't had the chance yet
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Depends upon one's "faith" in those vaccination records.
That's legitimate grounds for firing. (Score:2)
vaccine attestation is on an honorary basis for employees, contingent workforce, clients and visitors
While it make sense to keep unvaccinated idiots* out of their building, I doubt an honorary attestation will have much of an effect. And it wouldn't make sense to check proof of vaccination for every client getting in anyways.
Yup, but if you lie and it's discovered, that's legitimate grounds for firing. Similarly, if I lied about my sexual-orientation or race to get an advantage in the hiring process, that could lead to termination down the road. It's the best of both worlds....a liability shield for firing idiots + not being too invasive for the decent people who do the right thing. I don't mind signing a form saying I was vaccinated. I would not feel as great about turning in medical records to my employer....+ who really
Re: That's legitimate grounds for firing. (Score:2)
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But how does it makes sense to keep them out of the office, and why are they idiots? Are you saying that the vaccinated people are still at risk? If not, then where's the sense? If you don't drink orange juice, then are you an idiot if you don't take Vitamin-C pills?
And you're right. I'd just lie until another job was found. Honorary system would have little affect. Forcing proof... now there's a PR nightmare which is why they're probably not doing it.
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But how does it makes sense to keep them out of the office,
So they do not propagate the virus.
and why are they idiots?
Because it's because of the vaccinated that we can win our war against the virus, and not have overwhelmed hospitals. Even a kid can understand that. If you are an adult and don't, you are clearly an idiot, failing at basic math.
Are you saying that the vaccinated people are still at risk?
They are. Vaccine is not 100% effective, even if it's damn close.
Also, some people can't be vaccinated, so it's our duty to vaccinate ourselves to protect them. Ever heard of herd immunity?
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Except there are dead people double jabbed with either AZ, Moderna or Pfizer (aka all three are not 100% effective at preventing deaths) in the UK from the Delta variant. If you think all risk has been eliminated because you have been double jabbed then you are an idiot.
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You are the voice of reason.
I'm guessing that most people getting vaccines don't understand that they will need to get it every year for the rest of their lives as new strains evolve, similar to the flu. If they don't, then they're a bit hypocritical to call someone an idiot for choosing not to get it.
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Man, I can't wait till they approve Moderna for kids. Mine will be getting it and then the last vulnerable person in our household will be far more safe.
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A lot of anti-vaxxers are proud of that status. They will not lie to say they got the vaccine. They will prefer to make a scene or a spectacle about it.
Masking up? "It's all about my rights!" They come in purposely to film getting kicked out of stores and such. They aren't doing it because they have to, they're doing it just to provoke. It's basically the real life internet troll.
The ones unable to be vaccinated either due to medical reasons or children, you'll find they will spend an inordinate amount of t
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It's a frelling investment bank, "honesty" is pretty low on their list of core values.
I don't see an issue (Score:3)
Their office, their rules.
Don't like it? Take your money elsewhere.
wait a minute (Score:2)
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Ugh...need to proof read.
Basically, the onus is upon the UN-protected, to do whatever they have to do to protect themselves from the disease....the onus is not on society at large.
Re:Why bother? (Score:5, Informative)
Not the way vaccination works. First line of people at risk are primarily people with genetic predisposition/autoimmune problems. People for whom vaccine doesn't work, or doesn't work well enough.
Even healthy people with no immune memory are in a better position than them because they likely have a better natural immunity as well. When everyone takes a vaccine against polio, it's not that we protect ourselves. It's that we protect those among us for whom polio vaccine will not work for one reason or another, because even if we are to become carriers when vaccinated, we will almost certainly not exhibit symptoms that function as transmission vectors for the disease.
Wear a mask and get vaccinated (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Wear a mask and get vaccinated (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess I just trust the science more.
From what they tell me, with the efficacy of the vax ( did Pfizer)...I really do not have much fear of catching covid, and if I did, it won't really make me very sick.
At this point, I'm not afraid of going back to normal, non-masked, public life again.
I wasn't afraid of the flu before all this, I'm not afraid of it now.
Covid basically cost me a year of my life...life is short, I"m not wasting anymore needlessly.
If someone is more fearful, then I have no problem with them wearing a mask, living in a bubble..whateever.
I respect what they want to do with their lives, I don't plan to do the same nor go out of my way needlessly.
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Well, Pfizer for example, with only one shot, is only 33% effective against the Delta variant, the 2nd shot does increase it to 90 odd percent so that 2nd shot is really important and for those who had the virus, it is like having one shot, yet many think they don't need to be vacinated. The Delta variant (and Gamma) also affects kids more and those kids aren't vaccinated. We're having instances of people getting sick with 2 doses here in Canada, mostly in hospital outbreaks, so likely people who aren't tha
Re:Wear a mask and get vaccinated (Score:5, Interesting)
From what they tell me, with the efficacy of the vax ( did Pfizer)...I really do not have much fear of catching covid, and if I did, it won't really make me very sick.
And there's the rub. Vaccinated people can still catch Covid and pass it on to other people (vaccinated or not). But if you don't factor this into your calculations, everything is peachy.
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The vaccinated deaths are so low, it's barely a statistical blip on the map.
Its certainly not worth worrying about for the vast majority of vaccinated.
Why not trust the science and take them on their own word on the efficacy?
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>Why not trust the science and take them on their own word on the efficacy?
Because that's what the science says? Reminder that science is not a God who's Holy Word is to be worshipped, but a process of finding out errors in current models and adapting them to match the new observations. And to this day, we still don't quite understand the relationship between immune memory and general immunity, nor do we have a comprehensive understanding as to why certain vaccines just don't work for certain people. And
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We do understand some things, however. Such as, immune memory gained through surviving an infection is stronger, and longer lasting, than immune memory gained through a vaccine. There's no reason someone who tests positive for covid-19 antibodies should need to subject themselves to the dang
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Actually, it is the opposite. People who have recovered from the virus are about equal to those who had one shot of vaccine. For the Delta variant, one shot means 33% effective. There's whole towns in Brazil where everyone had the virus and then got a new variant. India is similar.
The nice thing for the recovered is after getting fully vaccinated, there as safe as anyone.
Re:Why bother? (Score:5, Informative)
Oh dear, let me point you to the Human papillomavirus (HPV). Causes most cases of cervical cancer and range of other cancers. Immunity from having had the virus is next to zero. Immunity from having had the vaccine way way better to the point where in the fullness of time death from cervical cancer will be almost eliminated.
Try googling it and stop spouting unscientific clap trap.
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We do understand some things, however. Such as, immune memory gained through surviving an infection is stronger, and longer lasting, than immune memory gained through a vaccine.
You have it backwards. Several studies for Covid show that the immune response of people who have been vaccinated is stronger than from those who got their immunity from surviving an infection.
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Yeah because when you get a cold or flu, you never get the cold or flu again, right?
Fast mutating viruses happen to mutate fast, and sometimes those mutations allow them to break through the immunity granted by previous infection.
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But, you and everyone else, locked down...donned masks, etc....because of what science says, no?
So, do we only listen to science on the cautious side and not when they give good news that things appear to be better and the vax works?!?
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But your choice affects others, so it's not simply your choice. Vaccinated people can catch and pass on Covid.
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Exterminate! Exterminate! [Re:Why bother?] (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, the only people in danger, are the people that refuse to get vaccinated....
If vaccination efficacy is 90%, then no, vaccinated people are still vulnerable, just not nearly as vulnerable.
I would like to kill this virus. Not merely damp it down: exterminate it. Get rid of it. Zero viruses in the wild, period. That means, let's NOT keep a pool of the virus in the wild living in the unvaccinated population.
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I would like to kill this virus. Not merely damp it down: exterminate it. Get rid of it. Zero viruses in the wild, period. That means, let's NOT keep a pool of the virus in the wild living in the unvaccinated population.
I believe this is a fools errand and do not support the imposition of costs and restrictions upon society in order to chase absolutist dreams divorced from reality.
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I would like to kill this virus. Not merely damp it down: exterminate it. Get rid of it. Zero viruses in the wild, period. That means, let's NOT keep a pool of the virus in the wild living in the unvaccinated population.
I believe this is a fools errand and do not support the imposition of costs and restrictions upon society in order to chase absolutist dreams divorced from reality.
Doesn't require "costs and restrictions". It requires people to get the goddamn vaccination.
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Doesn't require "costs and restrictions". It requires people to get the goddamn vaccination.
So true...what was I thinking? All you have to do is sprinkle magical fairy dust on everyone and they'll just fall in line and go get their shots.
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Too bad there is currently no vaccine OKed for the under 12's, who are a big part of the population and while they don't usually get very sick, they can still incubate it.
Not Possible (Score:2)
That means, let's NOT keep a pool of the virus in the wild living in the unvaccinated population.
I heartily support the goal but total eradication is highly unlikely since we already know that the virus can survive and infect other species like cats, bats etc. So completely eradicating it will prove to be exceptionally hard. However, we can certainly learn to live with it. Measles used to kill and maim huge numbers of people and is extremely contagious and about as dangerous as Covid but due to a vaccine that has comparable effectiveness to our Covid vaccines, nobody worries about it today.
Indeed,
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I believe I read that in most cases, while a virus will mutate to be more efficient at infectiousness, it also mutates over time to become less deadly to its hosts, as that that selects for it surviving and reproducing better.
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That's not always true, especially with a virus like Covid that spreads before making others sick. Even the flu pandemic last century got worse in the 2nd wave killing young healthy people and still reappears as bad strains.
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Right now, there is a good chunk of the population who can't get vaccinated. While the under 12's seldom get worse then snivels, the virus is going to keep circulating unless everyone basically gets vaccinated. The Delta variant seems to increase the herd immunity threshold to 90+% though no one is sure.
Gone, baby, gone [Re:Exterminate! Exterminate!] (Score:5, Informative)
I dunno how much you know about biological sciences, etc...but that is just not possible.
Not only is it possible, it has been done. Smallpox has been exterminated: it no longer exists in the wild, and vaccinations were what did it. Gone, baby, gone. Good riddance, don't come back.
https://www.worldatlas.com/art... [worldatlas.com]
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The difference is, back then the Soviets and the USA have worked together to eliminate the smallpox worldwide. That and the fact that smallpox only has humans as hosts. The coronaviruses can stay alive in animals.
But yes, eradicating it would be great.
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Smallpox, and SARS are about the only human viruses where it has been done. We almost got there with measles and polio but that last few percent who refused to get vaccinated means we still get the odd measles outbreak and likewise for polio in areas.
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This was also done in a time when we didn't have as prevalent international travel, etc.
There were an estimated 50 million cases of smallpox each year during the early 1950s, which many people still view as the golden age of passenger flight, so I'm not sure when you think smallpox was eradicated. There were smallpox outbreaks in Europe happening as late as the 1970s, all of which were traced back to international travel from remote parts of the world.
The way it was killed was by rigorous tracing and enforcement of quarantines.
Re:Gone, baby, gone [Re:Exterminate! Exterminate!] (Score:5, Informative)
Nowhere in that paper does it mention anything about religion. In fact, it specifically says 'mothers expressed concern about vaccines and autism, vaccine safety, and whether children are receiving too many vaccines too early in life. Antivaccination sentiments were deepened when an organization targeted this community with misleading materials regarding the risk of vaccination'. If you know anything at all about these communities (and obviously you do not), you would know that if there was actual religious anti-vax teachings, the vaccination rate would be damn near 0%, not the 79% that was recorded. You would also know that a 'vaccine education' program would not cause the vaccinated rate to rise to 91% in just a year if there was any actual religious component to the objection of vaccines.
I live in upstate NY, and during the time this was occuring the vaccination rates for various schools in the area was published. The LOWEST rate, at about 30%, was a private ultra-liberal school. The HIGHEST rate, at 100%, was a school run by an ultra-religious community. The average rate, in a true-blue county, was about 80%, the same as these supposed 'dumb ass religious morons'.
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Nowhere in that paper does it mention anything about religion.
Are you blind? The second sentence under the results section:
A majority of the patients (93.4%) were part of the Orthodox Jewish community,
Also, the second sentence under the Background section:
An outbreak of measles in New York City began when one unvaccinated child returned home from Israel with measles;
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Yeah, it happened in a religious community. So what. Where does it say it happened because of their religious beliefs? Nowhere. They are a very tight knit community that doesn't associate much with outsiders. It makes sense that an outbreak that happens there would stay in the community, even if other areas had similar vaccination rates.
They may be 'dumb ass morons' for believing anti-vax crap, but they were no more dumb ass morons than all the non-religious people believing the same crap. Religion had
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That's all I"m concerned about.
Yes, we know you're a Libertardian. Most of us prefer to be an integrated part of society and actually give a shit about someone besides ourselves. YMMV.
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Being my brother's keeper only goes just so far and just so long.
Myself, family and friends come first....and everyone else goes only just so far.
I've done my societal lockdown thing for a year....I'm vaxxed, and as far as I'm concerned, my life and lifestyle issuing back to normal levels of normal pre-pandemic.
It already has since I got my 2nd shot end of March.
We have a very limited time on earth, I've lost a year, I"m not losing more.
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In other words, a Libertarian.
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I'm not sure if you're making a joke here; if you are, I'm missing it. COVID-19 is a virus; it won't grow in a petri dish. Viruses need to infect a cell to replicate.
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I mean, the only people in danger, are the people that refuse to get vaccinated....and the risk is on them.
There is a risk that the non-vaccinated could be infectious and transmit to those who have been vaccinated. It would cause most little harm but they would carry the virus until their body eliminates it until when the could, potentially, transmit it to others. So this is a sane thing to do as it will help reduce infections by a little bit.
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Sooner rather than later....Darwin will take care of the un-vaccinated.
And from the scientists I'm told to believe....once I"m vaccinated I"m highly protected and even if
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Sooner rather than later....Darwin will take care of the un-vaccinated.
If Darwin's aim was perfect that would be fine and dandy, but Darwin often has co-lateral damage.
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Since the death rate is highest among the oldest: no, not very effectively.
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How many times does this have to be said. Vaccinated people can catch Covid and spread it to others. The vaccines do not provide sterilizing immunity.
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There is a risk that the non-vaccinated could be infectious and transmit to those who have been vaccinated.
Sounds like speculative paranoia.
I got my shots. I am fucking DONE with COVID-19.
The last year and a half has been hell and I won't live like that for another minute. 2.0000 weeks after my second shot, I burned every god damned covid mask I had and went out. IT'S OVER.
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There is a risk that the non-vaccinated could be infectious and transmit to those who have been vaccinated. It would cause most little harm but they would carry the virus until their body eliminates it until when the could, potentially, transmit it to others. So this is a sane thing to do as it will help reduce infections by a little bit.
There is a risk that the vaccinated could be infectious and transmit to those who have been vaccinated. It would cause most little harm but they would carry the virus until their body eliminates it until when the could, potentially, transmit it to others. So this is a sane thing to do as it will help reduce infections by a little bit.
There are a number of similar comments. They offer no substantive data actually explaining what the risks are except for useless nebulous language "a risk" "could be" "potent
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I mean, the only people in danger, are the people that refuse to get vaccinated....and the risk is on them.
There's also a risk to anyone who, for whatever reason, cannot get the vaccine.
For those of us that are vaccinated, we needn't wear masks or worry about who out there isn't vaccinated.
Only worrying about oneself -- nice.
Re:Why bother? (Score:4, Insightful)
The U.S. also once had a concept of an individual's duties to the larger society.
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The US was not really founded on that principle. That "individualism" was common of course in any frontier society, but it was not a part of any founding principles and mostly grew over time. Freedome and individualism are not the same thing. The colonies, before we were a country, were a place to get rid of undesirables, only a few colonists were the entrepreneurial sort. We all get told about the puritans coming over for religious freedom, but we don't hear much about some of the original colonies ser
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No, you don't seem to understand. There are people who cannot be vaccinated. Not 'don't want to be', CANNOT be.
My friend's wife, for instance, can't get the MMR vaccine. Or, she can, but she doesn't develop antibodies to measles. Therefore they have a policy that their kids can only bring over friends that have had the MMR vaccine. Her life is at risk.
People who have had organ transplants sometimes can't be vaccinated, or the vaccine doesn't work as well.
Babies can't always be vaccinated. At this point, we
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They're statistically significant in epidemiology, which is a lot more important when considering public health impacts.
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And the US was founded as a country that is based on "the individual"....not the collective, like EU countries, etc.
The individual is what the US is based upon and now it is time for us to get going again like before this shit hit.
Yeah, cause everyone survived on the frontier by being an individual. Err, not.
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I mean, the only people in danger, are the people that refuse to get vaccinated....and the risk is on them.
For those of us that are vaccinated, we needn't wear masks or worry about who out there isn't vaccinated.
This works if the unvaccinated population is relatively small and scattered. Even when the general population has not yet reached herd immunity, the remaining case and death rate just represents Uncle Chuck harvesting the unvaxed.
But an unvaccinated megachurch or hipster town can be a population large enough to culture the next dangerous mutation. Now the rest of us have to go through the pandemic slowdown again until there's a booster shot.
Why? because MorganStanley doesn't want them! (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, the only people in danger, are the people that refuse to get vaccinated....and the risk is on them.
For those of us that are vaccinated, we needn't wear masks or worry about who out there isn't vaccinated.
So, at this point, the onus of the protected is on them to self protect themselves, not for everyone else in society to mask and do xyz to protect them.
They are in the minority now and well....it's their choice, but it isn't our responsibility to go out of our way to protect them.
So, live and let live....
Simple answer - supply and demand. If you don't vaccinate, Morgan Stanley doesn't think you're very bright and they have no obligation to employ people this consider not very bright or wise. Apparently there are a surplus of people who want to work at Morgan Stanley and they get to choose which criteria they filter them out with. Sorry, if you refuse vaccinations, Morgan Stanley thinks you're a bunch of idiots.
If you don't like it, write their board of directors. I would have made the same decision. I don't want them working for me. If you feel that strongly about not vaccinating and exposing my children to are too young to vaccinate to COVID, then you probably wouldn't want to work for Morgan Stanley either. I've never met an anti-vaxxer that didn't have a whole host of other crazy and stupid theories. You're not entitled to a job at Morgan Stanley, especially when you're needlessly exposing children and family members with extreme medical conditions who can't be vaccinated from your COVID....not to mention all the people on the subway you rode in on.
Go find some employer who doesn't care if you have reckless anti-science views. May I suggest finding a job in Florida? NYC is probably not for you.
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A drawback to the system. It's likely on the honor system because it's too difficult to prove you were vaccinated. If they ever make this mandatory however, and the person on the honor system is discovered to have lied, then that's just cause for immediate termination.
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This was found not to be the case in the recent case in Houston. Vaccination records are public health records not covered under HIPPA
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/0... [nytimes.com]
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Not illegal that I know of. It's not against HIPAA. Schools can legally require disclosing vaccine status for example. Employers cannot require vaccination (as some cannot be vaccinated) but they can request the status.
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Here, (Canada), they can require the vaccine, unless you have a medical or religious reason to not get it. And that religious reason has to be an established religion.
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Not illegal that I know of. It's not against HIPAA. Schools can legally require disclosing vaccine status for example. Employers cannot require vaccination (as some cannot be vaccinated) but they can request the status.
Not so fast. It is a recent rule but employers CAN require a vaccination ( see Houston court ruling)
https://www.webmd.com/vaccines... [webmd.com]
Employers can legally require COVID-19 vaccination for employees to re-enter the workplace and can provide incentives to encourage employees to get a shot, according to new guidance issued Friday by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.
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It just happened, so not sure what's going to happen. Everyone in IT got nose swabbed even though we're all vaccinated because we're not idiots, touch equipment everywhere and understand 96
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Well, as a vaxxed person...that's not my problem.
Again, let Darwin do his work....and stop protecting people from themselves.
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I may not be able to get vaccinated for medical reasons, still trying to figure it out.
This is the kind of thing I'm afraid of. Locked out and in need of a medical exemption certificate that I probably won't be able to get for a very long time, because this is all so new that officially people with CFS can be safely vaccinated.
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Simple answer - supply and demand. If you don't vaccinate, Morgan Stanley doesn't think you're very bright and they have no obligation to employ people this consider not very bright or wise. Apparently there are a surplus of people who want to work at Morgan Stanley and they get to choose which criteria they filter them out with. Sorry, if you refuse vaccinations, Morgan Stanley thinks you're a bunch of idiots.
Where did this come from? How do you know "If you don't vaccinate, Morgan Stanley doesn't think you're very bright and they have no obligation to employ people this consider not very bright or wise."? Is this based on something substantive or are you just making shit up?
Any thoughts on why the same ban would also apply to clients? Do they also ban their clients because they are idiots or a different reason?
If you don't like it, write their board of directors. I would have made the same decision. I don't want them working for me. If you feel that strongly about not vaccinating and exposing my children to are too young to vaccinate to COVID
For children that are too young for vaccination in the US (Below age 12) their flu risk is similar
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You missed a few cases. There are people who cannot be vaccinated who are un-necessarily endangered by people who simply refuse to be vaccinated or take precautions. Even vaccinated people can carry the virus they pick up from one of those people long enough to transmit it to someone in their family who cannot be vaccinated (for example, a child) or for whom the vaccine is less effective (for example, infirm parent)
If enough people do the right thing, COVID can go the way of smallpox.
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No the risk is on others! Just because you are vaccinated does not mean you cannot be a carrier, you're just less likely and will be infectious for a shorter time. So that unvaccinated person can spread the virus to you, which you then spread to your kids who are under age 12 and not vaccinated. And yes, before someone repeats the false meme, kids can get sick and die from covid. You can pass it on to someone else in the family who cannot get vaccinated for medical reasons. You can pass it on to someon
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I have not intention of getting vaccinated for ethical reasons (all the of the available options used abortion products at least in their development). From a corporate policy standpoint though I can see the issue. All of those unvaccinated employees are still on the employee health plan and IF there was a covid outbreak in a building or something, that could drive up group rates a lot!
I think the real questions are will those that don't want to get vaccinated be accommodated in some way like being allowed
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Ethical reasons? So your ethics include contributing to the death of living people because somewhere a few years ago in their development tissue was harvested from not-people who were no longer alive. Fucking hell.
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all the of the available options used abortion products at least in their development
No, they use cells grown in a petri dish. Even in their development.
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I mean, the only people in danger, are the people that refuse to get vaccinated....and the risk is on them.
Yeah fuck the sick, the allergic, the immune compromised, any anyone else who can't get the vaccine. It's 100% their fault that they weren't born as perfect as me, and they all deserve to get COVID.
Yes I'm mocking you, you worthless shitty self-centered. That's it. I reserve the words "human being" for those capable of thought and empathy.
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Yeah fuck the sick, the allergic, the immune compromised, any anyone else who can't get the vaccine. It's 100% their fault that they weren't born as perfect as me, and they all deserve to get COVID.
Yes I'm mocking you, you worthless shitty self-centered. That's it. I reserve the words "human being" for those capable of thought and empathy.
I absolutely adore the irony of will you think of someone besides yourself you worthless sack of shit comments. The over the top vigor and self-righteousness of some of the comments are truly works of art.
Please pay no attention to me dehumanizing people who say things I don't like.
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While I do truly feel for those with these problems, how long do you expect the whole world to cater to the lowest common denominator?
They can hunker down, protect themselves, etc....but don't expect the whole world to give up having a normal life and normal lifestyle because of a VERY few number of special cas
Re: Why bother? (Score:2)
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That's all well and good, except that every person infected is a couple million more rolls of the dice for if we get a variant that can break through current vaccination. See: the countries with breakouts of the Delta variant after accepting vaccinations from China. [forbes.com]
I don't know about you, but I'd rather not hit the reset button on this whole thing and live through another 2020 just because a collection of morons decide to not be vaccinated due to entirely political bullshit reasoning, or even worse, bat-sh
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I'm vaccinated...the non-vaxxed is not a risk to me....they are the only ones that are at risk and well, either they will be lucky or Darwin will take them out and either way, I'm not concerned.
I've been shutdown a year, and I"m not doing ti anymore.
Science said I was sufficiently protected with a vaccine....I'm believi
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I'm also at a loss to understand how imposing consequences on the un-vaxed would affect you negatively when imposing consequences on them actually makes your life better (see above).
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Unnecessarily endanger the people who have been vaccinated? Ok.
So you will get the vaccine every year for the rest of your life as well? It only lasts about 1 year, and doesn't protect against new strains. That's why there is a new flu vaccine every year.
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This isn't like the flu vaccine. It may indeed need to be refreshed every year, but it does confer protection against new strains because the spike proteins used as targets are the same ones necessary to enter cells. If those mutate, the variant will make itself a lot less infectious.
Re:Not news for nerds (Score:5, Insightful)
They may have decided that they don't want to pay sick leave for people who voluntarily take unnecessary risks.
Or alternately, maybe they just don't want stupid people on their staff, and this is a good way to sort them out.
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They may have decided that they don't want to pay sick leave for people who voluntarily take unnecessary risks.
What's the problem then? Are masks not good enough all of a sudden
If the people who don't get vaccinated wore masks, that would help, but, as it turns out, these are the same as the people who say "wearing a mask infringes on my liberty."
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Does Morgan Stanley pay employees well, or poorly? Even the people hired to clean the offices will probably make more than your typical low income person.
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The mRNA vaccines with wide usage (moderna, Pfizer) are in the upper 90's. Not 80's. Adenovirus vaccines (older style vaccines, J&J, Sputnik, Sinovac) are somewhere between 60 and 80%. So no, the best vaccine are much higher than 80% but the cheaper ones are around that. Which is still very good and fine for global deployment.
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Sources:
https://www.ksl.com/article/50... [ksl.com]
https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/23... [cnn.com]
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You are safer if you have been vaccinated. You are not absolutely safe. If you can't see the difference between the two and know that 100% protection by the vaccine was never going to be the case then you are an idiot.
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Doing it and saying, "I'm doing this for others" would have gone a long way in understanding. There also would have been less mask hesitation as well.