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Space

Seat On Jeff Bezos' Space Trip Sells For $28 Million (thehill.com) 61

Posted by EditorDavid from the selling-seats dept.
The auction has ended for a seat with Jeff Bezos and his brother on their first Blue Origin flight into space next month. Slashdot reader ytene writes that a live-streamed auction for the seat "lasted less than 10 minutes after opening at $4.8 million."

The Hill reports: That came after nearly 7,600 people from 159 countries had registered to bid on a seat for the July 20 space flight by the time registration closed Thursday, according to ABC News... Blue Origin said the $28 million would be donated to Club for the Future, Blue Origin's 501(c)(3) nonprofit with a mission to "inspire future generations to pursue careers in STEM and to help invent the future of life in space," according to its website... Blue Origin said the fourth and final crew member of the mission will also be announced when the identity of the auction winner is revealed.
Today CNN ran a story headlined "Jeff Bezos is going to space for 11 minutes. Here's how risky that is." (Or how safe?) They'll be going up and coming right back down, and they'll be doing it in less time — about 11 minutes — than it takes most people to get to work. Suborbital flights differ greatly from orbital flights of the type most of us think of when we think of spaceflight. Blue Origin's New Shepard flights will be brief, up-and-down trips, though they will go more than 62 miles above Earth, which is widely considered to be the edge of outer space.

Orbital rockets need to drum up enough power to hit at least 17,000 miles per hour, or what's known as orbital velocity, essentially giving a spacecraft enough energy to continue whipping around the Earth rather than being dragged immediately back down by gravity. Suborbital flights require far less power and speed. That means less time the rocket is required to burn, lower temperatures scorching the outside of the spacecraft, less force and compression ripping at the spacecraft, and generally fewer opportunities for something to go very wrong.

New Shepard's suborbital fights hit about about three times the speed of sound — roughly 2,300 miles per hour — and fly directly upward until the rocket expends most of its fuel. The crew capsule will then separate from the rocket at the top of the trajectory and briefly continue upward before the capsule almost hovers at the top of its flight path, giving the passengers a few minutes of weightlessness. It works sort of like an extended version of the weightlessness you experience when you reach the peak of a roller coaster hill, just before gravity brings your cart — or, in Bezos' case, your space capsule — screaming back down toward the ground.

The New Shepard capsule then deploys a large plume of parachutes to slow its descent to less than 20 miles per hour before it hits the ground... Blue Origin's New Shepard capsule, which is fully autonomous and does not require a pilot, has never had an explosive mishap in 15 test flights. And the nature of Bezos' flight means it comes with some inherently lower risks than more ambitious space travel attempts.

But that doesn't mean the risk is zero, either.
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Seat On Jeff Bezos' Space Trip Sells For $28 Million More

Seat On Jeff Bezos' Space Trip Sells For $28 Million

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  • Does anyone know what the in-flight meal is going to be?

  • If Bezos is going, I'm pretty sure every effort will be made to ensure a safe journey and return. It's the subsequent flights, with more anonymous passengers, where we can assume that risks will enter the flight routine.

    • My advice to Mr. Bezos is to wear a custom mouth guard.

      I read that at least one Russian cosmonaut lost teeth on landings when the final braking rocket failed.

    • If Bezos is going, I'm pretty sure every effort will be made to ensure a safe journey and return.

      No doubt. I hear that Mackenzie Scott has been pulling some strings so she can oversee Bezos' safety personally!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

      Space flight is risky, you can't just wave a wand at it and make it less risky, it'll still be risky regardless of whether or not Bezos is on the flight.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by quenda ( 644621 )

      If Bezos is going, I'm pretty sure every effort will be made to ensure a safe journey and return.

      I think you over-estimate the affection that senior engineers hold for their boss at B.O.

  • Going to his "Foundation" (Score:5, Interesting)

    by JoshuaZ ( 1134087 ) on Saturday June 12, 2021 @08:44PM (#61481418) Homepage
    The Club for the Future is nominally a charitable foundation, but they seem to be doing very little. If one looks at their website https://www.clubforfuture.org/ [clubforfuture.org], pretty much the major thing they are doing is getting children to send in postcards which are then flown on New Shepherd and returned to the children. So despite being nominally a charity, the only thing they are doing which is supposed to be getting children excited about space is essentially just advertising for Blue Origin. I tried to find out if they were doing more, but there 990-PF form is not listed on the IRS where it should be https://apps.irs.gov/app/eos/allSearch [irs.gov]. This may be just because it has only very recently gotten 501 (c) (3) status, so they haven't filed a 990 yet, but it doesn't really look great. My basic reaction is that when people complain about wealthy people making nominal charitable foundations that don't really do any substantial charitable activity, this is pretty close to what they are talking about.

    • Pffft...

      Per ProPublica Bezos had an effective tax rate of under 1% [propublica.org]

      It's a strange dystopia we are currently inhabiting, with either lap dogs for the wealthy or the eat the rich crowd being dumb as rocks.

      If billionaires traveling the stars is the future, count me out.

      • What does that mean, a "tax rate of 1%"? Ah, FTA:

        To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in that same time period. We’re going to call this their true tax rate.

        You can call it anything you like, but it's bunk (also: "never been done before", really?). The very same article mentions that capital gains are not taxed until assets are sold. Bezos doesn't have those billions at hand to spend, it's fantasy money. When he turns it into real money, that's when he gets taxed. Doesn't get any fairer than that, I think. What is unfair is the ability to offset losses or deduct all manner of things from that tax bill.

        Su

        • Actually, if he donates the stock to a charity then he pays 0 tax on the increase in value but gets to deduct it up to 50% of his income. So, as an example, if the stock was worth $1 when he started, worth $1 million when he donates it (can be a charity that he controls) he gets to deduct it all - I.e. net his tax rate in real savings with a limit of 50% of his reported income. This loop hole should be closed.
          • How is this a loophole? In this scenario, he does actually donate $1M to charity, and he doesn't really come out ahead. Unless he donates it to his own charity, so he can still control that money and spend it on pet projects perhaps.

        • Re:Going to his "Foundation" (Score:4, Interesting)

          by Entrope ( 68843 ) on Sunday June 13, 2021 @07:47AM (#61482380) Homepage

          A friend of mine got stock options during the dot-com boom. He exercised the options, but didn't sell the shares immediately -- and because his options were non-qualified, that was a taxable event. The company and its stock busted before he sold, and it took him close to a decade to finish paying the IRS what he owed from wealth that he never got to use.

          That's another reason we don't usually tax capital gains the way that Propublica thinks we should.

          • That's another reason we don't usually tax capital gains the way that Propublica thinks we should.

            No.. that's the reason you diversify instead of keeping all your assets in stock from one company.

        • The major financial holding for most Americans is their housing.

          For that they are taxed yearly, as well as any capital gains when they sell. You'd have to make the case as to why these asset classes are treated differently (or hell, penalties paid when cashing out even a Roth IRA).

          It would seem the other 99% are already paying out something closer to a true tax.

        • Bezos doesn't have those billions at hand to spend, it's fantasy money. When he turns it into real money, that's when he gets taxed. Doesn't get any fairer than that, I think.

          You're right. I shouldn't pay any property taxes until I sell my house (if it's sold at a net gain).

          Amazon stock doubles in value, and he is taxed on those gains. Should he be forced to sell off 15% of his shares in order to afford the tax bill?

          Unless he can get the money from elsewhere.. yes. Why not?

          • Property tax is not a good comparison. You aren't actively using or benefiting from stock when it is invested. In contrast, property is being actively used for housing, businesses, agriculture, etc. And to get those benefits you rely on government services, like roads and sewer systems.

            Unless he can get the money from elsewhere.. yes. Why not?

            This would if we required this in general massively distort what the stock market does. Among other issues if we required this of people, it would be much more difficult for regular people to use the stockmarket to save for r

            • What does it matter what I'm actively benefiting from? I can buy an investment property that I don't live in, and I still have to pay property tax. The company that sold the stock is actively benefiting from that capital. I'm not sure why you're so dedicated to drawing a distinction.

              Not sure what distortion you're talking about, but retirement accounts are already exempt from taxes when you sell shares. You don't have to tax retirement accounts.

              If you like progressive tax policy, this is a really real
              • An investment property is generally being actively used. If you rent a home to people, they are living their and paying you for it.

                The company that sold the stock is actively benefiting from that capital.

                If the stock isn't being sold, they aren't benefiting in any substantial fashion, except maybe that they can get better loan prices from banks. And in any event, the company doesn't own the stock at that point, but the stockholder does. So even if the company is somehow directly benefiting from the stock price, the stockholder isn't.

                Not sure what distortion you're talking about, but retirement accounts are already exempt from taxes when you sell shares. You don't have to tax retirement accounts.

                So your proposal is what exactly? Have this no

                • If the stock isn't being sold, they aren't benefiting in any substantial fashion, except maybe that they can get better loan prices from banks.

                  Assuming it matters whether or not a company "actively" benefits from stock, they get real hard cash when they sell shares (like at an IPO). They sold an asset. They're using the cash from that sale to invest in their company. It's like a builder selling houses. They sell the asset, expand their business, and the buyer pays property tax (yearly).

                  So your proposal is what exactly? Have this not apply to things which are officially retirement like 401k and 403b but apply to everything else?

                  Yes.

                  And then at the end of the year, one will have to pay based on any increase in value of any stock? This really makes investing in the stock market really not work well, since if stock A goes up a little and stock B goes down a little, you are stuck paying on A.

                  Forget about gains and losses. The IRS doesn't care what the net increase/decrease was in the value of your house. It's worth what it's worth in a given year an

                  • Assuming it matters whether or not a company "actively" benefits from stock, they get real hard cash when they sell shares (like at an IPO).

                    That's an argument if you want to tax at an IPO, not yearly change.

                    So your proposal is what exactly? Have this not apply to things which are officially retirement like 401k and 403b but apply to everything else?

                    Yes.

                    That might work. It would at least protect the retirement issue. I may need to think about this more or variants thereof.

                    Forget about gains and losses. The IRS doesn't care what the net increase/decrease was in the value of your house. It's worth what it's worth in a given year and that's what you're taxed on.

                    So you want a tax on the stock total value? Yeah, that's just going to destroy the stock market. No one will want to keep any money there unless the rate you choose their is really small.

                    You think Bezos pays capital gains taxes? He doesn't sell his stock (much).

                    He sells over a billion dollars in stock a year, and has consistently done so for the last few years. This year he sold almost 2 billion

                    • So you want a tax on the stock total value? Yeah, that's just going to destroy the stock market. No one will want to keep any money there unless the rate you choose their is really small.

                      It could be small, but I think you underestimate the desire/need to invest. Do you own stock? Would a small tax on the value of it make you sell all your shares? Do people still buy investment properties?

                      He sells over a billion dollars in stock a year, and has consistently done so for the last few years. This year he sold almost 2 billion

                      I said he doesn't sell much. He's worth 200 billion, so a 2 billion sale is 1% which is nothing for him. Some years he pays no taxes at all [nytimes.com]. Capital gains obviously doesn't work. We've had a capital gains tax for a while now. If you can borrow the money [forbes.com] cheap enough, then you can avoid the capital gains tax

                    • Would a small tax on the value of it make you sell all your shares?

                      Presumably not. So about what percentage do you have in mind with what scaling effects?

                      He's worth 200 billion, so a 2 billion sale is 1% which is nothing for him

                      Hmm, that does bring up an interesting point. I was initially inclined to disagree and compare that to a situation with what 1% of a regular person's savings represents, but in this case you are likely correct, not so much from percentage but more due to the diminishing marginal returns of money. But this doesn't deal with the problem that Jeff Bezos really isn't a representative example if one is going to be applying thi

    • For those of you not playing along at home - Bezos and Musk are literally running the "Man Who Sold The Moon" plan from Heinlein.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

      Selling "space stamps" and "space postcards" to children and "real estate" to investors are all literally in the plan.

  • I wonder how wide the bathtub curve is for this thing?

  • Somebody's desperate ... (Score:3)

    by John Cavendish ( 6659408 ) on Saturday June 12, 2021 @08:59PM (#61481472)

    to meet J. Bezos.
    Isn't it a price of a ~week stay at ISS with Soyuz seat and training?

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by ghoul ( 157158 )
      Its Elon
    • Bozos For Bezos

    • What is surprising about this? The ability to sit and potentially market your idea to the world's richest man is worth far more than a temporary public transport trip to some place with a nice view.
      Businesses live and die on such meetings.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Or to get their name in the history books. What is this, first sub-orbital commercial non-government passenger flight to nowhere?

      • Unless Virgin flies first. I don't think a history book would have room for that. The winning bidder will be lucky if his/her wikipedia page isn't deleted for being insufficiently notable.

        But hey, people are paying similar amounts for NFTs and ugly art.

  • Who the hell are these people? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by AlanObject ( 3603453 ) on Saturday June 12, 2021 @09:19PM (#61481534)

    It always blows me away how many people can show up -- in this case nearly 8,000 -- who have $5M disposable cash they are willing to blow on what amounts to a glorified carnival ride.

    Can you imagine what kind of "escorts" they are able to afford?

    Yeah, I get it. Historic. True zero G. Curvature of the Earth. Most of all: privilege. And all yours for $28M not $5M.

    If anyone wanted proof that we live in a stratified global society with an untouchable overclass here it is.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      The plutocracy that we let grow like a cancer

    • If anyone wanted proof that we live in a stratified global society with an untouchable overclass here it is.

      Right. And the Vanderbilts and DuPonts were the middle class. At what point in history haven't the world had the "upper class". Heck, the gilded age was all about that.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by athmanb ( 100367 )

        It used to be significantly different from like 1930 to 1990 which is what most people think about.

    • For most of us there are people with more money than we can imagine, and people with less money than we can imagine. Extreme wealth and extreme poverty are both difficult to grasp. This particular expenditure is strange to me because its not much less than people have paid to go to the space station reported as 55M https://www.npr.org/2021/01/27... [npr.org] That is really in space - orbit at orbital velocity. The Blue Origins flight is just a hop. Not much more exciting than a zoom climb in a fighter plane that c

    • If anyone wanted proof that we live in a stratified global society with an untouchable overclass here it is.

      They aren't untouchable.

    • who have $5M disposable cash they are willing to blow on what amounts to a glorified carnival ride.

      A glorified carnival ride is worth nothing compared to a few hours with the world's richest man and the potential opportunity to make new and interesting business connections.

    • It always blows me away how many people can show up -- in this case nearly 8,000 -- who have $5M disposable cash they are willing to blow on what amounts to a glorified carnival ride.

      I guess there are not a lot of exciting thnigs to buy when you have this amount of money.

  • Roller Coaster (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ghoul ( 157158 ) on Saturday June 12, 2021 @10:02PM (#61481632)
    You go up, a few moments of weightlessness and then you go down. How is this joke carnival ride get someone astronaut wings. You should at least make orbit if not leave earth neighborhood to get astronaut wings.

    • It was good enough for the US to claim “first American in space” on May 5th, 1961.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by ghoul ( 157158 )
        US claims a lot of things. We expect better from Amazon. US talks about a 15 dollar min wage. Amazon already has one.

    • Consider your signature for a moment.

      If you're not super rich, you might consider spending a few thousand dollars for a trip to the Super Bowl or a day trip to a driving school. Some people would consider it a huge waste of money, but for those kinds of memories, an experience might be worth a pile of disposable dough.

      If you're super rich, I guess a nice alternative to buying another gold-plated Ferrari is going into space. What else will you do with that money before you kick the bucket?

  • next to an annoying screaming billionaire!

  • > They'll be going up and coming right back down, and they'll be doing it in less time — about 11 minutes — than it takes most people to get to work
    Why do they make such stupid comparisons. The entire trip can be counted as 11 minutes but he will spending the entire day and maybe more preparing and waiting for a bunch of stuff to be checked and rechecked.

  • Not paying to fly (Score:3)

    by esperto ( 3521901 ) on Sunday June 13, 2021 @06:55AM (#61482308)

    Whomever bought the ticket is not paying to fly, is paying to have access to Bezos for several hours or even days, to take pictures and videos together with him all over the news and etc. the flight is just a side event, this is pretty much like those benefit dinners for the uber rich that on paper is for donating money to charity but in practice is for network building.

  • Almost hovers? Why the hell doesn't it hover then? Is it supposed to hover? It would be cool if it could hover. Make it hover.

    Jeez. Verbatim cut and paste drivel. Get a decent editor.

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