What if a Medical Treatment Could Change Your Political Or Religious Beliefs? (scientificamerican.com) 233
A research fellow at the University of Oxford's Wellcome Centre for Ethics and Humanities writes in Scientific American:
How would you feel about a new therapy for your chronic pain, which — although far more effective than any available alternative — might also change your religious beliefs? Or a treatment for lymphoma that brings one in three patients into remission, but also made them more likely to vote for your least preferred political party?
These seem like idle hypothetical questions about impossible side effects. After all, this is not how medicine works. But a new mental health treatment, set to be licensed next year, poses just this sort of problem. Psychotherapy assisted by psilocybin, the psychedelic compound in "magic mushrooms," seems to be remarkably effective in treating a wide range of psychopathologies, but also causes a raft of unusual nonclinical changes not seen elsewhere in medicine...
[E]merging evidence suggests the relationship could be causal, with clinically administered psilocybin actively shifting political values, just as it shifts many other nonclinical characteristics. Notably, one study of psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression reported that the treatment decreased authoritarian political views in patients. That clinical trial also detected another effect that had previously been reported in healthy participants: psilocybin use leads to increases in the personality domain of openness, itself a predictor of liberal values... With sample sizes currently small, more research is needed to understand whether there truly is a causal relationship at work, and, if so, what its nature might be. Perhaps psilocybin doesn't so much induce liberal values, but rather consolidates whatever values were present before treatment. A health care modality that entrenches preexisting political sentiments is, at the least, unlikely to make enemies.
The same could not be said of a treatment that shifts patients in one direction along the political spectrum.
These seem like idle hypothetical questions about impossible side effects. After all, this is not how medicine works. But a new mental health treatment, set to be licensed next year, poses just this sort of problem. Psychotherapy assisted by psilocybin, the psychedelic compound in "magic mushrooms," seems to be remarkably effective in treating a wide range of psychopathologies, but also causes a raft of unusual nonclinical changes not seen elsewhere in medicine...
[E]merging evidence suggests the relationship could be causal, with clinically administered psilocybin actively shifting political values, just as it shifts many other nonclinical characteristics. Notably, one study of psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression reported that the treatment decreased authoritarian political views in patients. That clinical trial also detected another effect that had previously been reported in healthy participants: psilocybin use leads to increases in the personality domain of openness, itself a predictor of liberal values... With sample sizes currently small, more research is needed to understand whether there truly is a causal relationship at work, and, if so, what its nature might be. Perhaps psilocybin doesn't so much induce liberal values, but rather consolidates whatever values were present before treatment. A health care modality that entrenches preexisting political sentiments is, at the least, unlikely to make enemies.
The same could not be said of a treatment that shifts patients in one direction along the political spectrum.
Tl;dr (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Tl;dr (Score:5, Interesting)
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"Drugs have taught an entire generation of American kids the metric system." ~P.J. O'Rourke
Re:Actually... (Score:5, Informative)
What if instead of relying on our own personal framing to make conclusions about others, we conducted some actual studies?
In contrast to descriptions of conservatives as fearful and low in self-esteem, research repeatedly reveals another curious finding: Conservatives are happier than liberals. In surveys of people from across the globe, conservatives report being more satisfied with their lives than liberals (Carroll, 2007; Napier & Jost, 2008; Taylor, Funk, & Craighill, 2006). For example, from 2005 to 2007, Gallup reported that 61% of Republicans said they were personally very happy as compared to only 47% of Democrats (Carroll, 2007). Popular books (e.g., Brooks, 2006, 2008; Schweizer, 2008) have similarly documented and amplified this theme, pointing to positive qualities associated with conservatism (e.g., being happier, more helpful and generous, harder working, with closer families) in national samples. The ideology–happiness relationship is reliable, small to moderate in size, and potentially quite meaningful given its implications for understanding political ideologies and behavior. ....
Conservatives appear to have qualities that are traditionally
associated with positive adjustment and mental health. When we
examined established measures of personal agency, positive outlook, and transcendent moral beliefs (i.e., religiosity, moral commitment, tolerance of transgressions), we found ideological
differences that accounted for the happiness gap.
https://labsites.rochester.edu... [rochester.edu]
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Kind of makes sense to me. Higher tendency to religion which gives a sense of community and meaning. Also: in as far as things are illiberal happy with the status quo: no stress needed keep it going boss. Vs liberals: constantly having to protest to try to change stuff, which presumably means also not happy with the way things are.
Re: Actually... (Score:2)
One thing I've found is that your life is only as crappy as you think it is. Republicans are more likely to be satisfied with theirs for several reasons I can think of. For example, they're less likely to convince themselves that they're underpaid. They're more likely to believe that if they're in a bad financial situation, they can pull themselves out of it, rather than tell themselves that only the government can help them. They're less likely to live in constant fear of impending doom: Democrats are more
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Not surprising that people who benefit from the status quo would both be happier (they're benefiting) and more conservative (favoring the status quo).
Those who suffer under the status quo, on the other hand, could be expected to be both unhappy (they're suffering) and less conservative (against the status quo).
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It's also not surprising that people who are in denial would be happier. If you can pretend that things are better than they really are, it's easier to be happy about things. Conservatives are generally lying to themselves about climate change and the economy, and the supposed stability of their beloved governmental structures — which could fall at any time.
Not having anxiety about reality because one is ignoring it is sure to improve someone's mood... right up until reality runs straight up their ars
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That or simply being aware that not everyone thrives under the status quo. Just because I benefit doesn't mean I think it is equitable. Ignorance helps greatly with happiness.
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I just met a guy who was begging me for any work he could get. He couldn't find a job anywhere and he and his family were incredibly grateful for a meal.
There are a lot of hardworking people who have otherwise just gotten down on their luck and are in a bad place. A societal safety net can help them be more p
Re: Actually... (Score:2)
This is a HUGE deal during Covid. But it does not just happen during pandemics.
Let me say it again. Hardships occur all the time.
Our society functions best when we are all strong. Just like families; a stronger family is one that takes care of its members. We would do well to help folks out in their time of need, so that the favor can be returned in ours.
Re:Actually... (Score:5, Insightful)
from 2005 to 2007, Gallup reported that 61% of Republicans said they were personally very happy
From 2005 to 2007, Republicans were running the country.
If the same poll was done in 2010 it may have had a different result.
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For example, from 2005 to 2007, Gallup reported that 61% of Republicans said they were personally very happy as compared to only 47% of Democrats (Carroll, 2007).
That's only because George W. Bush won a second term. Interviewing those same people between the years 2009-2016, you would find that only 3% of Republican were happy, due to the skin color of the man residing in the White House ("He's black. And he was born in Kenya. And he's black. And he's a Marxist. Did I mention he's black?")
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In surveys of people from across the globe, conservatives report being more satisfied with their lives than liberals
So it's all based on self reporting. I wonder what the results of the survey would be if the survey asked people to self-report how smart they were? I imagine that the survey would show that conservatives are smarter than liberals as well. That's because asking people to self-report how smart, strong, hard-working, generous, and generally wonderful they are is not the best way to get objective answers. The Dunning-Kruger effect is real. Smarter people tend to be able to see the flaws in their own mental abi
Re: Actually... (Score:2)
If a significant number of respondents in that survey are from the us, sampling only during one partyâ(TM)s presidency (Republican in this case) should invalidate the results. Iâ(TM)d bet money theyâ(TM)d get very different results after Obama was elected from both sides.
Re:Actually... (Score:4, Insightful)
There's a simple explanation: conservatives are liars.
This was my first thought as well. Conservatives that I know are far more apt to see unhappiness as weakness. Unless you are very clever with your polling they will not reveal how they actually feel - in fact they regard it as a matter of duty to their beliefs to conceal any discontent. Mind you, they have no trouble voicing discontent in general, but in regards to their own decisions and situation it's an untouchable topic.
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Trump isn't a centrist. And he's not on the left. Extreme-right is still under the umbrella of conservative.
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Most "conservatives" are just free picking by the dems as soon they stop the racist social justice stuff and go back into being the party that (at least say) that protect the people.
What the population is actually worried about is to starve due no jobs, so you have to convince em you will do the job better than trump instead of doing useless bickering.
The ideal counterpoint probably would be to be the party of the small, ecologically friendly business, that will protect the mom and pop shop instead of just
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MRI studies a few years ago found that people who labeled themselves as "conservative" showed brain activity patterns remarkably similar to those with severe generalized anxiety disorders.
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The Dunning–Kruger effect in action.
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Not a problem, remove their hearts and they're conservative again!
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#walkaway, huh? You mean with all of the other shutterstock models you and your dear leader would like us to believe are real people?
https://www.fastcompany.com/90... [fastcompany.com]
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If you watch campaign ads this cycle, there is certainly a huge swing toward pandering to paranoid fears. Bigger than usual. It's certainly not an "all conservatives" thing. But rather than promote policy, it's been a parade of scary what-ifs if the chosen side doesn't win "drug invasion due to an unfinished border wall, scary immigrants coming in, no jobs, socialism, etc." No positive points. No upside. Just a proclaimed lack of downside.
Oh, oh my god! (Score:3)
Its not the hospital treatment that makes liberals (Score:4, Insightful)
... It's the hospital bill afterward that your health insurance doesn't cover that makes people liberals.
Re:Its not the hospital treatment that makes liber (Score:5, Informative)
Seeing the taxes on your paycheck can have the opposite effect.
In general, when Democrats get into office they reduce the federal deficit, and when Republicans get into office, they increase the deficit.
so, if you're worried about the taxes on your paycheck, which are paying back that spend spend spend that the Republicans do when they're in office-- blame the Republicans.
http://www.exponentialimprovement.com/cms/uploads/1/deficittogdppctwoevents_001.jpg
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Seeing the taxes on your paycheck can have the opposite effect.
In general, when Democrats get into office they reduce the federal deficit, and when Republicans get into office, they increase the deficit.
so, if you're worried about the taxes on your paycheck, which are paying back that spend spend spend that the Republicans do when they're in office-- blame the Republicans.
http://www.exponentialimprovement.com/cms/uploads/1/deficittogdppctwoevents_001.jpg
In general, we can now say with some confidence, that any previous studies that attempt to paint either the Red Gang or the Blue Gang as fiscally conservative, are now complete bullshit.
So, if you're worried about WHICH party is going to put us more in debt due to senseless warmongering, massive family-based corruption, or spending trillions on whatever their Donor Class wants them to spend it on, stop worrying.
Neither of your Gangs give a shit about YOU or being fiscally conservative, citizen.
Re:Its not the hospital treatment that makes liber (Score:5, Insightful)
So you mean if there was a cure for Republicanism? (Score:2, Funny)
Would democrats force republicans to get treatment? Or vica versa? I think more than one regime has found that led pills cure political disorders dead.
Or are you refering to the literature that says congative impairments and dimensia are associciated with a drift to inflexible and thus conservative political beliefs?
So a cure for Alzheimers would doom the Republican base?
I think you are projecting (Score:2)
Your own hostilities. I said no such thing.
Actually, technically... (Score:2)
First, that article is about 'being diagnosed with', not 'having' mental illness.
So, OK. Liberals tend to be more self-reflective and more self-aware. They're also less likely to feel a strong stigma against disclosing problems and doubts. These two tendencies make liberals much more likely to disclose symptoms to medical providers, resulting in diagnoses.
The author's glee over 'validation' of his bias is disheartening, but hardly unexpected. That gloating tone should serve as a warning to you, however,
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Meanwhile, going in and shooting up your high school often comes before getting a diagnosis.
Christ, Marx, Wood and Wei (Score:4, Interesting)
did not work on trump! (Score:2)
did not work on trump!
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Sounds good to me... (Score:3)
Notably, one study of psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression reported that the treatment decreased authoritarian political views in patients.
Who wants authoritarians around, anyway? It just shows that, since it can be cured, it's a disease. Too bad, conservatives - no 'shrooms for you - unless you want to be cured of your affliction.
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you rant assuming a lot about me. let me give you a hint, both Biden and Trump represent approved big corporate authoritarian approved views. One is a buffoon who refuses to listen to wise counsel to temper his stupid beliefs, and the other is a senile has-been who will be someone's meat puppet. Fuck both of them.
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Oh, wow. Both sides are bad. Edgy.
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Eh, both sides are bad is a good start. Doesn't change that you have to vote for one of them, but maybe a head start on a better primary season next time.
Re:Sounds good to me... (Score:4, Insightful)
Believe me when I say that there are many of us who aren't mentally ill. With any luck, in November, we will take both houses of Congress and the Presidency (decisively), and pack the Supreme Court (and, yes, conservatives, all of this is constitutional - decided law, unless you want to take us back in legal decisions to antebellum days - but these are days of extremism and power grabbing, so yeah, baby, go with it). I would then hope that the newly invigorated Democratic Party would take that opportunity to fix many of the worst issues with our political, economic, and legal systems. Ha, ha. Like they'd ever do that. They'll spend each waking moment until they get voted out of office next midterm arguing about what "better" should look like, rather than just ... ya know... doing better somewhere? Yeah, we might win the elections, but we're all still fucked because they'll do nothing with whatever power they do get.
So a pox on Republicans for being authoritarian dicks who want to take us back to antebellum days; and a pox on Democrats for being slightly less authoritarian dicks who still want to police thought, but are so incompetent they won't use their power for actually changing things for better in the real world; but most of all a pox on our bipolar voting system that ensured that we wouldn't have effective representation. Sadly, I'm too old to emigrate anywhere better.
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With any luck, in November, we will take both houses of Congress and the Presidency (decisively), and pack the Supreme Court
Because this was such a great idea the last time you guys tried it that it almost caused the most popular Democrat of all time to be impeached.
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Because this was such a great idea the last time you guys tried it that it almost caused the most popular Democrat of all time to be impeached.
The only two things that stopped Roosevelt when he tried packing the court was the primary swing judge at the time (Justice Owen Roberts) started siding against the conservative "four horsemen" judges (arguably to bring a sign of legitimacy to the court) and one of the four horsemen (Justice Willis Van Devanter) announced his retirement. This made the strategy no longer necessary and Congress buried the legislation. It would have been very hard for the overwhelmingly Democratic Congress to allow the Supreme
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Claims of hypocrisy thrown at Republican Senators aren't really that fair in my opinion, as they are simply doing what many politicians do when given the opportunity for a power grab.
Just because other scummy people exist doesn't mean they aren't massive hypocrites.
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The single party rule you're talking about is "people voting". You lot had that recently, remember. But you fucked it up so hard it's about to swing in the other direction, but you can't stand the idea of democracy so if the Gerrymandering and voter suppression doesn't wok, it's time for civil war! You're demented.
No, you're THREATENING (Score:2)
You're threatening a civil war if you don't get your way. That makes you a treasonous piece of shit. Congratulations.
More than half of Americans self-identify as Liberal. That's right, Conservatives are a minority. But if they don't get to boss the country around they still feel they got robbed.
As for totalitarianism, the Republican presidential candidate is trying to get the US A.G. to file charges against his opponent!!! Do you even hear yourself right now? Hahaha!
Also, learn to spell.
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For example the mental disorder schizophrenia is closely related with being religious. That is it's not uncommon for people who suffer from schizophrenia to explain their psychotic episodes and the subsequent delusions they hold through religious ideation, like they believe that God(s) are talking to them, that they're possessed by God(s) or demons or whatever.
However that does not mean that there's a causal direct
Respect, empathy yield dangerous political shifts (Score:2)
Who needs psilocybin? Too much respect or love can turn people librul too.
BidenCare (Score:2)
Antiauthoritarian, not liberal (Score:3, Informative)
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Liberalism is orthogonal to authoritarianism.
The opposite on the liberal axis is conservatism.
The opposite of authoritarianism is anarchism.
Most "liberals" as we know them in the USA are centrists when it comes to authoritarianism. They want the government to enforce liberalism. Most conservatives are more authoritarian than liberals. They want the government to enforce conservatism, and they're OK with it involving more severe penalties.
Re: Antiauthoritarian, not liberal (Score:2)
A government powertul enough to give you everything is powerful enough to take away everything.
Selection bias ? (Score:2)
If a medication made patients notably more conservative, the FDA/EMA would never approve it.
Party Game (Score:2)
Put them on the table next to the peanuts.
Yes, yes! (Score:2)
We might seen in our minds ...
"I'm sick of being a racist Republican Christian Bigot, gimme that pill! "
But alas, it won't happen.
Mental wellness correlates with correct opinions (Score:3)
It doesn't seem at all surprising that something that makes people mentally healthier could also cause them to re-evaluate opinions that they only ever had in the first place due to mental illness.
And I don't mean that in a pejorative sense of "you're crazy therefore everything you think is wrong", but e.g. someone who is in a lot of pain, or undergoing a lot of anxiety, or depression, fear, anger, generally being buried under the weight of unpleasantness and not in a clear open mental space, could easily make decisions that seem perfectly rational in light of those experiences, but would not seem to rational from a more neutral mind.
Conversely, if people were always manic or somehow in constant elation, I could see that leading to irrational recklessness and lack of appropriate caution, and so decisions, including political decisions, that are less well-founded.
If there was a magic pill to make everybody mentally healthy, calm and clear-minded, I have no doubt that political opinions would change dramatically.
I have my ideas of what direction they would change, because of course I think my political opinions are well-founded and those to the contrary are not, but the principle in use here doesn't hinge on what those opinions are. Just that if you are mentally well, rather than mentally ill, of course you're going to think better than you otherwise would.
Please (Score:2)
Someone do us all a favor and start spiking the water.
We need a vaccine for religion (Score:2, Interesting)
And it should be mandatory. Think of all the people who have died in the name of religion; plus, the thousands of years the advancement of science has been delayed.
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What about mandatory fun? [wikipedia.org]
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That's one of the signs of the alpocalypse [wikipedia.org].
Sounds like... (Score:3)
...they're saying that depression and mental disorders lead to anti-social, closed minded, and authoritarian mindsets.
Brainwashing? Fuck that noise. (Score:2)
No.
Just flat out no.
And if anyone ever tries it, they're going to have to kill me to stop me from going after them.
Dictators (Score:2)
You know dictatorships would take advantage of such if it proved effective. It would be a lot cheaper than "reeducation camps"
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You know dictatorships would take advantage of such if it proved effective. It would be a lot cheaper than "reeducation camps"
The problem with this idea is that it does the exact opposite of what dictators want. Therefore it is exactly nonsense.
Wow after reading through some (Score:2)
Yeah (Score:2)
When in reality it is exactly the other way around.
I think.
A treatment to cure behavior? (Score:2)
Authoritarian is a weird word. (Score:2)
I take it to mean that instead of viewing nature as absolute authority, an individual is seen as such. That doesn't match the definition I read about online, which describes a totalist state structure. Funny how word definitions shift.
Reminds me of a Twilight Zone episode (Score:2)
"Number 12 Looks Just Like You"
https://youtu.be/cP8hpvdgJnA [youtu.be]
an antidote to religion? yes, please (Score:5, Insightful)
I've been considering religion a parasitic mental disorder for a long time (after extensively considering the question). So it doesn't surprise me that there is potentially a cure. On the contrary, I have a slim hope that one day we'll view religion the way we view Smallpox today - something that for most of human history our species simply accepted, and then erradicated and the world is a better place for it.
For political views, again it is not surprising that brain chemistry affects your position on questions that are aligned with political parties. What does surprise me is that people confuse politics, politicians and political views and think that these three things have much in common. They don't. Most politicians in the west today are career politicians. They serve party X the same way most employees (from cleaning lady to CEO) work for company A today. Mobility among parties is much lower than among companies, but it's not unheard of. These people primarily consider the thing a job. What they may or may not think privately doesn't much enter the equation. It is only voters who hold political views and (sometimes) vote accordingly, believing "their" party or candidate shares those views. Changes in brain chemistry can change voter behavior. I doubt they would change anything in the actual politics.
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The problem with faith is when people use it as a closed fist rather than an open hand.
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The problem with faith is when people use it as a closed fist rather than an open hand.
You can do plenty of damage with an open hand, not simply by showing someone the back of it, but also by who you choose to offer it to in friendship.
Oh the jokes write themselves (Score:2)
Something about mental health care and {insert opposing political party here}.
Correlation Between Medical Treatment and Bernie? (Score:2)
I'm sure a lot of people who have received medical treatment in the USA suddenly have more favourable views on Vote Bernie ... particularly when they get their bill.
imagine if the subject was (Score:2)
"What if medical treatment could change your sexuality" and the comments were about treating the LGBT community to make them straight.
Nonsense (Score:2)
As a non-partisan with a functioning brain my political values have shifted all over the place throughout life. I've also done plenty of psychedelics. Psychedelics tend to make you think about many of the same more existential issues that meditation does and old school liberal values tend to center around many of these things.
Conservative values have tended to be more direct and simple, people who follow them tend not to have a complex understanding which supports their beliefs and this kind of pondering is
left or right (Score:2)
Neither are those traits are comfortably in the domain of the right.
Re: In other words: mentals vote Trump? (Score:4, Insightful)
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This is from the About page on the second link. [shiftfrequency.com]
Yes, those were truly exciting times in life! Reality ceased to be what the Main Stream Miasma regurgitated ad nauseum for the dumbing down of the masses...
etc. Is that irony? I think that's irony.
But yeah, dividing people up into "liberals" and "conservatives" is the real problem.
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I don't really care about who is behind shiftfrequency, I care about the reporting and the sources.
Obviously you care, or you wouldn't have linked to it. It is a poor source and amounts to pretty much someone's opinion, just like your other links.
Your link to the Slashdot thread about psilocybin treatment changing how people view the world also does not make the point you think it does.
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Probably because holding a "conservative" philosophy means lowering personal expectations.
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Re: In other words: mentals vote Trump? (Score:2)
If life expectancy correlates with your theories about immoral behavior one would expect liberal states to fair poorly in this contest. However, life expectancy is much higher in liberal states. Sexual education and access to sexual health services far outweighs the effects of repressive beliefs about sex, because the sex is still happening. Same with drug u
Re: In other words: mentals vote Trump? (Score:3)
As someone who grew up a conservative and who later moved to urban/liberal cities, it surprised me to find that most liberals are actually very safe about sex, very rarely use dangerous hard drugs, are moderate with drinking, go to bed early and have very unfavorable vi
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What mental illnesses are they diagnosed with?
The articles don't say.
And no TDS is not a disease.
Just like there is no Obama derangement syndrome.
Or at least I have never heard of ODS.
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What a line of bull. How do you tell when someone is lying? They tell you what their OPPONENTS think, desire, and 'will do', rather than what they think, desire and will do.
Tell us what you think or do, rather than blatantly lie about what you think all/most/some liberals think, desire, do.
But no need, I am sure what you really desire is merely some extra rubles from your employer.
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Account name checks out.
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Libertarian right is an oxymoron, libertarianism is fundamentally a left wing ideology. No actual libertarian would ever dream of being a Republican.
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Libertarian right is an oxymoron, libertarianism is fundamentally a left wing ideology. No actual libertarian would ever dream of being a Republican.
Most if not all libertarians are in favor of little or no gun laws. This alone is enough for many libertarians to lean right.
Libertarians also are for less regulations in general which again is more in line with the right.
There are many other things like school choice, lower taxes, no minimum wage, etc... that republicans and libertarians tend to agree more on.
Also, this might be a little selfish but I find that the regulations that republicans want like drug laws
don't affect me personally while the regula
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Because as a Libertarian you ought to, since those things are choices an individual must be allowed to make for themselves. It's no one's business but their own.
PS I do not agree with what GP
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But now it's also "some". And in the other sentences it's "all".
Which is it? Is it "a lot", "some", or "all"? Choose one, because these are mutually exclusive.
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Some would, approve of most or maybe even all of those.
What? Like 5 or 6?
You're stuck in the 80s aren't you?
No. Remember FOSTA-SESTA? I do. That was 2018. R's are trying to tilt USSC to overturn Roe v Wade right now.
Back when Newt Gingrich was preening about family values in front of one of those mega church preachers with more mistresses than rolexes?
No, I'm thinking more about the pussy-grabber standing in front of a church he doesn't attend holding up a Bible, upside down. Classic.
You can be forgiven for assuming all Republicans are like that if all you know about them is what you saw on TV back then.
But that's NOT all I know about them so keep your patronizing forgiveness.
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Your definitions of left and right wing are entirely incorrect. Read a book once in a while, one that wasn't written by a Republican shill. Or even just the first few lines of the wiki article https://bit.ly/3dl1EYg [bit.ly]
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Incorrect. The political axis of left/right can only represent one variable: how much government control you want in everyone's lives.
That is fundamentally incorrect. Left/right tells what you want the government to do, not how much you want them to do it. That is usually represented by a second, up/down axis, whose extremes are known as authoritarianism and anarchism.
The rest of your comment can be safely ignored since you are operating on a basic misconception.
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