He Called it a 'Scamdemic' - Then Saw His Family Getting Sick (sfgate.com) 561
A remarkable first-person story in today's Washington Post:
I used to call it the "scamdemic." I thought it was an overblown media hoax. I made fun of people for wearing masks. I went all the way down the rabbit hole and fell hard on my own sword, so if you want to hate me or blame me, that's fine. I'm doing plenty of that myself.
The party was my idea. That's what I can't get over. Well, I mean, it wasn't even a party — more like a get-together. There were just six of us, OK? My parents, my partner, and my partner's parents... Some people in my family didn't necessarily share all of my views, but I pushed it. I've always been out front with my opinions. I'm gay and I'm conservative, so either way I'm used to going against the grain... I told my family: "Come on. Enough already. Let's get together and enjoy life for once." They all came for the weekend. We agreed not to do any of the distancing or worry much about it... We cooked nice meals. We watched a few movies. I played a few songs on my baby grand piano. We drove to a lake about 60 miles outside of Dallas and talked and talked. It was nothing all that special. It was great. It was normal...
I have no idea which one of us brought the virus into the house, but all six of us left with it. It kept spreading from there.... I was sweating profusely. I would wake up in a pool of sweat. I had this tingling feeling all over my body, this radiating kind of pain... Then one day I was walking up the stairs, and all of the sudden, I couldn't breathe. I screamed and fell flat on my face. I blacked out. I woke up a while later in the ER, and 10 doctors were standing around me in a circle. I was lying on the table after going through a CT scan. The doctors told me the virus had attacked my nervous system. They'd given me some medications that stopped me from having a massive stroke. They said I was minutes away.
I stayed in the hospital for three days, trying to get my mind around it. It was guilt, embarrassment, shame. I thought: "OK. Maybe now I've paid for my mistake." But it kept getting worse. Six infections turned into nine. Nine went up to 14. It spread from one family member to the next, and it was like each person caught a different strain... My father is 78, and he went to get checked out at the hospital, but for whatever reasons, he seemed to recover really fast. My father-in-law nearly died in his living room and then ended up in the same hospital as me on the exact same day. His mother was in the room right next to him because she was having trouble breathing. They were lying there on both sides of the wall, fighting the same virus, and neither of them ever knew the other one was there. She died after a few weeks. On the day of her funeral, five more family members tested positive...
They put my father-in-law on a ventilator, and he lay there on life support for six or seven weeks. There was never any goodbye. He was just gone. It's like the world swallowed him up.
We could only have 10 people at the funeral, and I didn't make that list.
The party was my idea. That's what I can't get over. Well, I mean, it wasn't even a party — more like a get-together. There were just six of us, OK? My parents, my partner, and my partner's parents... Some people in my family didn't necessarily share all of my views, but I pushed it. I've always been out front with my opinions. I'm gay and I'm conservative, so either way I'm used to going against the grain... I told my family: "Come on. Enough already. Let's get together and enjoy life for once." They all came for the weekend. We agreed not to do any of the distancing or worry much about it... We cooked nice meals. We watched a few movies. I played a few songs on my baby grand piano. We drove to a lake about 60 miles outside of Dallas and talked and talked. It was nothing all that special. It was great. It was normal...
I have no idea which one of us brought the virus into the house, but all six of us left with it. It kept spreading from there.... I was sweating profusely. I would wake up in a pool of sweat. I had this tingling feeling all over my body, this radiating kind of pain... Then one day I was walking up the stairs, and all of the sudden, I couldn't breathe. I screamed and fell flat on my face. I blacked out. I woke up a while later in the ER, and 10 doctors were standing around me in a circle. I was lying on the table after going through a CT scan. The doctors told me the virus had attacked my nervous system. They'd given me some medications that stopped me from having a massive stroke. They said I was minutes away.
I stayed in the hospital for three days, trying to get my mind around it. It was guilt, embarrassment, shame. I thought: "OK. Maybe now I've paid for my mistake." But it kept getting worse. Six infections turned into nine. Nine went up to 14. It spread from one family member to the next, and it was like each person caught a different strain... My father is 78, and he went to get checked out at the hospital, but for whatever reasons, he seemed to recover really fast. My father-in-law nearly died in his living room and then ended up in the same hospital as me on the exact same day. His mother was in the room right next to him because she was having trouble breathing. They were lying there on both sides of the wall, fighting the same virus, and neither of them ever knew the other one was there. She died after a few weeks. On the day of her funeral, five more family members tested positive...
They put my father-in-law on a ventilator, and he lay there on life support for six or seven weeks. There was never any goodbye. He was just gone. It's like the world swallowed him up.
We could only have 10 people at the funeral, and I didn't make that list.
Admitting you're a stupid twat... (Score:5, Insightful)
...doesn't excuse you from being a stupid twat. He willfully and gleefully infected himself and others. He should be in prison.
Re:Admitting you're a stupid twat... (Score:5, Insightful)
Why did he infect his family?
Perhaps it was because the 'Tweeter in Chief' kept saying that it was fake, less infectious than the flu etc etc.
Blame the likes of Trump for at least half the deaths in the USA from CV-19.
The sooner he spends the rest of his natural in an Orange Jumpsuit (made out of sack cloth) the better.
Re: Admitting you're a stupid twat... (Score:5, Informative)
The only reason the whole family got infected is because the whole family were behaving like assholes.
If everyone had followed protocol they'd mostly still be alive.
I have zero sympathy for cases like this. They all literally brought it upon themselves.
Same as anyone hanging around Trump without a mask. Same as Trump.
One study showed that 75% of the people who were told to self-isolate didn't. This is the result.
Re: Admitting you're a stupid twat... (Score:4, Insightful)
There are something like 75 long-term staff at the White House, many of whom have worked there for decades. They don't have a whole lot of choice about hanging around the maskless Superspreader In Chief. An awful lot of people work in restaurants, where it's pretty much impossible to eat while still wearing a mask. A lot of people work in retail in places where masks are not mandatory for customers. If their employers don't provide regular tests (and there aren't many who do) they have no way to know if they're infected, or if they're infecting their' families.
I have very little sympathy for this bozo or most of his family, but there are an awful lot of people who have no choice if they're going to put food on the table.
Re: Admitting you're a stupid twat... (Score:5, Insightful)
Much to the GOP's consternation the Coronavirus has consequences that are quicker than an election cycle. Who knew!?
Only flout science that plays out over decades, not months.
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To be fair, he's pretty much an empty suit right now. Nothing of substance to be offered, just lies and demagoguery.
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Unfortunately 40% of the population agree more than happy with lies and demagoguery and will not for him no matter what.
Re: Admitting you're a stupid twat... (Score:4, Insightful)
Rhetoric from the left? What? Wear a mask, social distance and donâ(TM)t listen to those dicks trying to kill you with misinformation? Thereâ(TM)s only one party in control at the federal level, theyâ(TM)re setting the tone, and theyâ(TM)re bearers of the majority of the blame.
Re: Admitting you're a stupid twat... (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:3)
Because mother nature is a bitch, she is certainly not your friend and she is much bigger than you, whether you like it or not. And republicans don't like to be told by other forces what to do, they are like little children screaming at their parents. Mother Nature will just crush their balls like a bug.
Re:Admitting you're a stupid twat... (Score:4, Insightful)
People keep arguing WHO vs Trump, but it's not an or choice here. The fact is that BOTH are at fault. WHO rectified their position but Trump kept being an idiot and lots of people suffered the consequences.
Re:Admitting you're a stupid twat... (Score:4, Insightful)
And you see nothing wrong with wishing someone else dead?
THAT is sad.
Re: Admitting you're a stupid twat... (Score:5, Insightful)
That would make it 100,000 fewer deaths in the US to date, and fewer still going forward.
When the toll hits 400,000 remember this. Then try to argue that his life was worth more than all those others combined.
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You'd be doing better with anyone who was willing to listen to the medical people. Having politicians make medical decisions is stupid.
Their job should be supporting the medical people and dealing with the economics. Here, the politician introduces the head Doctor and stands back while she talks and she makes the decisions such as the other day, banning loud music in bars. There has been mostly a light touch and the government has something like a 80% positive rating with currently about 110 cases a day in
Re: Admitting you're a stupid twat... (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not entirely sure about that.
Considering the North American continent, the death rate in Canada is roughly a 20th of that of the US, and although the US has roughly 10 times the population, the population density in Canada's most populated city is still less than half of that of New York, for example. This suggests to me that the countries respective rates may actually be comparable.
I'm not suggesting that the USA is doing well, I'm suggesting that I believe there is something endemic to North American culture whic is *NOT* unique to the USA which is allowing the virus to do its damage to both countries. Trump's response has been dismal, true... but I do not think that anything anywhere close to half of the deaths could have prevented simply if Trump had taken a more science-based attitude towards the virus early on. I'm suggesting that the fact that the virus has had about the same relative impact on the USA given its environmental conditions and cultural factors as Canada may be in spite of Trump's poor handling of the virus, not because of it.
It is human nature to want to blame someone or something when something bad happens.... but the reality is that we cannot always do this.
I'm sorry, but you are wrong. When the US has a death rate for COVID-19 that is ~2.7x of Canada, it shows that the US situation is in fact unique, and not something endemic to the North American lifestyle. In other words, for every 1x Canadian death, there are about 3x US deaths. This comes down to policy, leadership, and taking the virus seriously.
Canada has 10,000 deaths and 40,000,000 people. That means that ~1/4000 of the Canadian population has died from COVID-19.
US has 214,000 deaths and 328,000,000 people. Which means that ~1/1500 of the US population has died from COVID-19. That means that the US has a death rate of ~2.7x that of Canada.
Re: Admitting you're a stupid twat... (Score:5, Informative)
On the other hand, Japan has many incredibly dense urban environments and deaths per million there is 12.7, vs. 647 per million here in the US. I'm sure you'll explain some other mitigating factor, but simple urban population density clearly isn't the primary issue.
Trump pretty much turned the entire thing into a partisan issue, with the result being that roughly half the country failed to take it seriously, or though it was a "pandemic". In either case they failed to take precautions. (Article a case in point.) Or even went so far as to fight against the necessary precautions because "freedum"! (Which Trump ALSO encouraged.)
That being the case... yeah, I'd say he's good for at least half of it.
Re: Admitting you're a stupid twat... (Score:4, Insightful)
The population density of the US is 37 per square kilometer, the Japanese population density is 347. Sixteen percent of the US population is over 65, in Japan it's 26 percent. The US has a COVID death rate of 663/million, Japan's rate is 13/million.
In short, none of your assumptions hold water.
Re: Admitting you're a stupid twat... (Score:5, Informative)
Except, as I pointed out, the population density in urban areas of the USA is more than double that of the urban areas in Canada,
Stop making excuses. I live in Japan, and the population density in urban areas such as Tokyo or Osaka is about the same as in the most populated urban areas in the USA. The USA has as of today around 24.100 cases and 663 deaths per million of population, VS 704 cases and 13 deaths per million in Japan.
Evidently, population density isn't the only factor here.
Re:How to make a bad disease worse? Covid-20m? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm not sure that Democrats want to amend the Constitution more than Republicans (who have controlled the interpretation of the Constitution for 50 years). Roe v. Wade was decided by a majority Republican-appointed Court, but Republicans want to alter that interpretation of the Constitution either via a decision or via an amendment. Gay marriage and Obamacare are two more issues where Republicans want to change the Constitutional interpretation--again, despite the fact that these decisions came from a majority Republican-appointed Court. I have no doubt that many "conservatives" would support Constitutional amendments overturning either of these decisions.
It is also very common for people on the Right to want to repeal the 16th Amendment (which allows income tax) and the 17th Amendment (which made the Senate a slightly more democratic and no longer the chamber representing the states qua states). These repeals are just as much a statement that the Constitution needs work as would an amendment eliminating the Electoral College or expressly stating that individuals have absolute sovereignty over their internal organs.
Its funny that the modern Republican notion of the "Constitution in Exile" arose during a long period of Republican domination of the Federal courts. It's almost as if they never understood the Constitution in the first place, but instead projected their own assumptions about hierarchy and economics onto the document. But as Oliver Wendell Holmes said: "The Fourteenth Amendment does not enact Mr. Herbert Spencer's Social Statics." That quote is from a dissent in Lochner, in which a majority Republican-appointed Court held that Massachusetts' law enacting a 60 hour work week infringed on the right of workers to demand to work 80 hours.
Some things never change!
play stupid games, win stupid prizes (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, a big part of the blame rests on your shoulders, but a very significant part also rests on the deniers in the government and media that you listened to. The role models and leaders that were supposed to say "Hey, you, don't do that!" But instead they told you "Don't worry about it, it's just a minor thing that's been blown all out of proportion, it's a hoax, ignore those 'experts', they don't know what they're talking about, just go about business as usual."
And you listened to them. People that you SHOULD have been able to trust. People that should have been speaking with your best interest in mind. Were they idiots? Did they have some other agenda? Doesn't matter now.
It's a shame there's not much more you do about it now besides to do your part and try to limit the damage they can do, try to slow the body count - make sure they don't get re-elected.
Make sure you VOTE!
Re:play stupid games, win stupid prizes (Score:5, Insightful)
You can't really vote against Fox News*. Most of their loyal viewers have that bad cancer deeply embedded in their brain, and won't turn away from it, no matter what.
Fox News is the other side of the free speech sword. It is entirely permissible for them to make fistfuls of dollars misleading millions of people, including the president. If you want to stop that, your options are either clamping down on free speech, or educating the next generation so they don't fall for the same shit their parents and grandparents did.
The Republicans' war on education is doubly scary when you realize this.
(*And Brietbart and InfoWars and many others, but Fox is the one with millions of viewers.)
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If Trump and by extension the GOP lose badly it will harm Fox and Brietbart and all the rest.
Re:play stupid games, win stupid prizes (Score:5, Funny)
Trump is helping out though. He spends so much time on the phone with Fox while they're on the air that Fox is unable to distribute the normal amount of fake news each day. Hurray for leadership!
Re:play stupid games, win stupid prizes (Score:4, Informative)
Re: play stupid games, win stupid prizes (Score:5, Insightful)
The people saying masks don't work are scientists and government ministers. Until July that is, then suddenly they changed to saying we must all wear masks, regardless of the evidence they told us about showing they don't work earlier.
Not one reputable scientist said that masks don't work. What scientists were saying is that masks don't stop you from getting the virus. What masks do is help prevent people who are infected with COVID-19 from spreading it. Especially people who don't know that they have it yet or who are carriers. This is a distinction that has been manipulated by some for political gain to say that masks don't work.
Basically, masks don't prevent you from getting the virus, but they do help reduce the spread. So, wearing a mask is about caring about the welfare of others. It's more of selfless act and one that is easy to do.
PS: When I use the term mask above, I'm taking about generic masks, buffs, and other face coverings. There are specific masks like the N-95 and other special purpose equipment that are designed in such a way that they can filter out contaminates and viruses.
Gump (Score:4, Insightful)
Stupid is as stupid does. This guy is one conspiracy away from another fiasco.
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Fools and their parents... (Score:5, Insightful)
... are soon parted in these days of pandemic. Here's a clue: if you listen to stupid people, you become more stupid.
In the final analysis, he deserved what he got. Sadly, his parents didn't deserve this retarded monkey for a son. You don't fucking browbeat your parents into doing dangerous things. But, I guess, he was from Texas, so that's an additive factor of stupid tossed in. Could have been worse though - he could have been from Florida.
But school (Score:4, Interesting)
I wonder how many children will end up wondering if they killed grandma after they bring COVID home from school?
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On the other hand, children don't often think like elderly people, particularly emotionally.
Most people who feel survivor's guilt shouldn't, but they do anyway. Do you REALLY expect school aged children to demonstrate better intellectual and emotional maturity than adults? Even the kindergarteners?
Rationally, it would not be the child's fault since they don't really get a choice about going to school. Even if they did get a choice, it's the adult's job to limit the consequences for children's bad decisions
Oh, we're doing anecdotes? (Score:3, Insightful)
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For everyone of us in this times, everything that happens to us, or our friends, neighbours, family: is an anecdote.
No ideas why americans try to use that word as a kind of swear word.
Raises hand ... (Score:5, Funny)
Why the hell did you bring a sword down a rabbit hole?
Freedom is double-edged (Score:5, Insightful)
A long time ago, the US decided that it's a persons god-given right to be a booger-eating moron. We don't have a nanny state and we give people enormous individual freedoms. That means that some will make smart choices and others are gonna be dumber than a block of granite. And it's not the government's place to prevent the dumb people from being dumb.
However, being dumb frequently has consequences. A tough lesson, and this guy learned it in the hardest way imaginable. Same goes for the people who attended the party.
I'm really, really sorry that someone died and others suffered, but they have absolutely nobody to blame but themselves. Info about this virus has been in everyones face for months. I've been invited to things by friends where I simply said "nope. too many people in an enclosed space. This virus is airborne and its 10 times deadlier than flu. Gonna pass". His family members and partner could have refused the invitation. The cost of the bad judgement was one death, several people with likely permanent medical problems, and millions of dollars of medical bills.
The US way of life is very harsh on people who make bad decisions. This is not a bug - it's a feature that was deliberately designed into the system.
Unbelievable story (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Unbelievable story (Score:5, Insightful)
TLDR: It makes my political opponent's point too well, so it must be fake news.
A very logical attitude you have there...
Re:Unbelievable story (Score:5, Informative)
That's pretty extreme... (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, the "scamdemic" part was pretty stupid, but from the story, it doesn't look that his actions were that bad. He didn't organized a 1000 person kissing contest or anything like that, and he wasn't coughing all over the place. He just planned a single family gathering with 6 people. Maybe not ideal but that's the kind of thing almost everyone does, even those who are generally careful. And unless your place is in hard lockdown, it is generally tolerated by the authorities.
But in that story, everyone got sick, and in a really nasty way. The virus doesn't transmit that easily, most contact cases I heard about turned out negative, and official statistics tend to confirm that. His family, himself included, also was hit much harder than the average. Normally, only about 10-20% get more than "just a flu" (at least on the short term). He and his family were really unlucky. He totally didn't deserved what happened to him despite his opinions.
Anyways, it is also an interesting case study. Is that how "superspreader" events look like? The severity of symptoms seem to indicate a large viral load. Did someone spread the virus like mad? How? Were there symptoms, no matter how mild, before the gathering? Are there family-specific predispositions? Did several people got infected beforehand? Are this situations taken into account when designing models?
anecdotal bullshit (Score:3, Insightful)
Made up cautionary tale? (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't know with certainty whether or not this story is true, but it sure sounds like a fable. No details, who, where, when, etc. so impossible to corroborate. Loose ends conveniently cut off with stamens such as "I don't know which one of us brought it", meaning no contact tracing was done, not even who else who met any of those 6 prior to the "party" also got sick. Given this, it is technically possible all 6 got it from differenent sources.
A personal story (Score:5, Informative)
I lost my son to COVID-19.
He lived in a state that opened early, including sports. He was a coach for his daughter's hockey team and they had a meeting about restarting the team. He wore a mask, but most people did not. In particular, the guy sitting next to him did not, and he was in the presymptomatic phase - two days later the guy was diagnosed with the disease. And three days later my son was diagnosed with it also.
After about a week he had trouble breathing and went to the hospital, and he was placed on a ventilator. After a little over two weeks he was able to breathe for himself and appeared to be getting better - the tests for COVID-19 came back negative.
Four days after coming off the ventilator his blood pressure dropped precipitously and he was placed on a blood pressure support medication. The next day they had added three more blood pressure support medications, that was everything they had, and had put him back on a ventilator. Later that day, I watched (through FaceTime) as the nurse practitioner removed his intubation. I heard his last words. I watched as he took his last breath while a nurse held his hand. I watched the nurse close his eyes after he passed. Beyond doubt, it was the worst day of my life.
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Re:Can't hide forever (Score:5, Insightful)
Trump and team are receiving million-dollar treatments.
You and I will not.
Wear a [good] mask!
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This is America.
Look at us.
We were the envy of the globe. There were no obstacles we couldn't overcome.
--
Now, we're in a pissing contest with China when we should be economic partners.
Where is the statesmanship?
Where is the innovation, creativity, and miracles of a semi-religious nature?
Why don't we have world-class home testing kits for the virus? We have home pregnancy tests, thermometers, oximeters, BP with Bluetooth ...
There would have been a time when American ingenuity was a thing.
Re:Can't hide forever (Score:5, Informative)
He received a mixture of monoclonal antibodies. He is one of 10 people worldwide who got that treatment outside of the limited trials. It is theoretically available under a compassionate use program, but normally you have to be much sicker to be considered and it takes over a week to be approved (if you haven't died yet).
He also got very early treatment with Remdesivir concurrently. Most of us don't get that unless we get a lot sicker first due to limited supply and sky high costs.
This was all over the news, where were you?
In summary, Trump got socialized medicine with all the stops pulled out. The rest of us don't.
Re:Can't hide forever (Score:5, Informative)
And in the "irony abounds" column it's cultured with fetal cells.
Re:Not fetal cells (Score:5, Informative)
He didn't write "fetal stem cells," he wrote fetal cells. Why would you add that?
Ah, that's why. To disingenuously suggests that the controversy concerning the use of fetal cell lines in research is limited to stem cells, not the fetal cell lines that your own source clearly states have been used in the development of the drug.
How did one obtain "embryonic kidney cells" in 1972, pray tell?
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Most of us don't get that unless we get a lot sicker first due to limited supply and sky high costs.
This may contribute to the reason why Remdesivir is limited to people is critical condition, but there's also the fact that it suppresses your immune system. It's considered too risky for people who have mild cases. I suspect that the reason why he got it was because it speeds up recovery. In other words, he's using it in order to help maintain the illusion that the virus is no big deal.
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I think you're thinking of dexamethasone. It's not that expensive, but it does suppress the immune system while reducing inflammation. It's used in COVID because part of the later stage of COVID is dominated by excess immune activity damaging the lungs.
Remdesivir is an anti-viral. It can sometimes be hard on the liver.
Re:Can't hide forever (Score:5, Informative)
it's not a secret cure, it's the experimental monoclonal antibodies he received. Those are not available to the general public (for good reason: they're still experimental). The general public also doesn't have doctors specifically assigned to take care of them and only them. Nothing special for a US president. In fact, I would be disappointed if a US president did not get the best medical treatment money could buy. It's not a conspiracy, but any US president has better access to treatments than the general public.
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Better health care, by itself isn't the issue. Better health care, AFTER all the stuff he told people is the problem. An example of do as I say, not as I do.
Re:Can't hide forever (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly. He wants to cut everyone else's health care while at the same time getting the best that socialized medicine could provide for himself.
Also, he claims COVID is no big deal, but when HE got it, it was treated like a REALLY BIG DEAL. If he really believed it was no big deal, it was within his power to refuse all of that and STILL get better care than he would have the rest of us getting.
The problem is his treatment probably can't be (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Also remember, Trump getting better (so far) is not proof that the drugs work or are completely safe. With no treatment, Trump might have gotten better. Most people who are infected don't get major symptoms, that's normal. The problem is with all the people who do get major symptoms. Ignoring prevention measures because the disease seems minor is the true problem here. Worse, mocking the prevention measures every week and flaunting them is an insult to everyone who died or got a severe case. Going out i
Re: Can't hide forever (Score:3, Interesting)
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Let's see: https://www.worldometers.info/... [worldometers.info]
As of today, Andorra is the only European country with a higher number of cases per capita than the US.
As of today, San Marino, Belgium and Spain are the only European countries with a higher death rate than the US. These three countries together are not able to get the death rate for all of Europe above the death rate of the US.
So I call BS on your statement.
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Untrue. It makes a nice story though. A tiny bit of research which involves searching with your favorite browser shows that most European countries have a lower death rate and lower case rate, including the early hot-spot of Italy.
Re: Can't hide forever (Score:5, Insightful)
Not uncomfortable but factually incorrect.
Re:Can't hide forever (Score:4, Insightful)
What "million dollar" treatment did Trump receive?
His socialized medical care.
The rest of your post is funny. You like being obtuse, eh?
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Others pay for his health care. It's the basic principle of socialized anything.
Re:Can't hide forever (Score:5, Insightful)
He got medical care paid for with tax dollars and no bill to him. I'm guessing nobody tried to get him to sign an agreement to pay any amount asked even if his health insurance refused to pay.
Re:Can't hide forever (Score:5, Informative)
What "million dollar" treatment did Trump receive?
A dedicated medical team, a private suite in one of the best hospitals on the planet, a military transport?
Experimental treatments not yet approved by the FDA, that neither you nor I could get for love nor money if we were in the hospital?
Re:Can't hide forever (Score:5, Informative)
You said people had natural immunity to the virus, SuperKendall, so you are disqualified from making any comments on the matter. You are the king of ignorance.
Also, Trump provides no "ironic" or "interesting" counterpoint of any kind. Trump provides just another example of what willful ignorance brings us, the kind that you have actively promoted. We have no idea what has really happened beyond dozens of sociopathic fools being infected. Herman Cain, for example, died many weeks after his initial diagnosis, it's far too early to tell. Furthermore, these people who "ironically provide your interesting counterpoint", have health care far better than any of us could hope to receive.
Also, there have been "large negative results" including multiple hospitalizations and, in Trump's case, severe medical intervention. Major campaign disruptions have occurred. You claim otherwise only because it suits your narrative; you are clearly wrong on this...but that's par for the course.
People like you, SuperKendall, are the problem. You are ignorant, tribalist and you won't stop talking. All you care about is repeating misinformation in support of your side, just as you have done here.
Re: Can't hide forever (Score:4, Interesting)
But studies using blood collected before covid showed that 35% of samples had a response to human coronavirus, including covid.
Additionally, scientists were wondering about the relatively low death rate in Africa, and couldn't explain it away just by the population skewing younger.
Now they suspect that the bcg vaccine against tuberculosis plays a part. The TB bacteria are used as adjuvants in other vaccines to provoke a larger immune response. And to kill bladder cancers. Probably also primes the immune system for a better response to covid as well.
Which is bad news for Americans and Canadians. Only Quebec and Newfoundland carried out TB immunization of everyone (Quebec did it in elementary schools between 1956 and 1974). Native populations in both countries were also immunized, but not all received the same strain of tb bacteria, so if you lived in the US, your immunity probably didn't last more than 10-15 years - though there are exceptions at both ends of the spectrum.
So there are portions of the population who have either partial or complete immunity - just that unless we actually test the persons white blood cell (Th1 - the killer T cells) response, it's like playing Russian roulette.
But if we tested for this, we could potentially free up more than a third of the population from any sort of restrictions - no masks, no social distancing, nothing.
And we'd be better able to know who needs extra precautions.
Re: (Score:3)
So are most car accidents. I'm not trying to have one.
I wear my seatbelt and my mask.
Re: Can't hide forever (Score:5, Informative)
The driver shoukd not be wearing a mask due to buildup of CO2. We have seen several accidents here in VA from people wearing N95 masks while driving and getting disoriented or passing out.
This has nothing to do with CO2. It's because the mask fogged up your sunglasses. Don't wear it while driving by yourself.
Re: Can't hide forever (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Can't hide forever (Score:5, Informative)
The driver shoukd not be wearing a mask due to buildup of CO2.
Oh geez, not this again. So people are getting disoriented and passing out after wearing an N95 for a few minutes, but medical workers, construction workers, painters, and others in fields that require usage of the masks for hours on end don't experience problems?
Re: Can't hide forever (Score:5, Funny)
Moral of the story. Don't wear a mask made out of saran wrap.
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but it's so effective it filters out air molecules, never mind viruses.
Re: Can't hide forever (Score:5, Interesting)
From my personal experience, I do sometimes experience CO2-related problems while wearing a sealed respirator mask (similar to an N95). While wearing one, you need to take deep breaths to ensure that you get enough fresh air along with the stale air that is between your face and the mask. Breathing like this requires awareness and a bit of practice.
It still happens occasionally that I'm breathing shallowly (due to nervousness or other distractions), which leads to a sensation of shortness of breath. I never got anywhere close to passing out, but it is unpleasant, and when I'm in that state, it takes an hour of maskless breathing fresh air to recover.
Note that 1% CO2 in the air is known to cause mild drowsiness, whereas your exhaled air has 5% CO2. If there is 100 ml dead volume under your mask and you breathe 500 ml at a time (normal for an adult at rest) [wikipedia.org], you are effectively breathing air with 1% CO2.
Re: Can't hide forever (Score:3)
The same was true for polio too. Most folks felt nothing or had mild to moderate flu symptoms.
However it also killed, maimed, and traumatized enough people that folks did not consider the other ~20% of cases to be dismissed as unimportant.
Re: Can't hide forever (Score:5, Insightful)
Asymptomic != Immune
To be immune means infection does not occur and one doesn't go on to infect others.
Asymptomatic means you are infected, just without a cough/fever, but can easily go on to infect others. (And should therefore wear a mask in public just in case.)
Typical modern conservative mentality: it doesn't affect me personally, so it must not be important.
Re:Can't hide forever (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a tragic story indeed, but people can't shut down the world forever. Some will be lost, but that is just how life works - soem people are more susceptible to something or unlucky. It might be a brain eating amoeba from a lake. It might be a drunk driver. In the end you can't stop living out of fear you'll not live...
It's still good to be cautious, but the shut downs must end.
Until there is a vaccine, this bug will stay contagious and lethal. Period.
Your statement is one of, "Too bad you had to die, but seeing as how I'm OK, that's all that really matters."
Living in pandemic means that either we live differently (masks, social distancing, curtailing some economic activites), or just let people die. Clearly we know what your preference. You've got yours, so the rest of us can go f**k ourselves.
Re:Can't hide forever (Score:5, Funny)
well, this is the famous american rugged individualism.
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Every time I start to think you're not such a giant dumbfuck, you go and prove me wrong.
These shutdowns wouldn't be necessary if President Super Spreader had just listened to the people that were telling him this was coming.
But he didn't, and now we have apologists like you trying to tell us that somehow it's the fault of the people trying to fix it. Fuck you.
You need some empathy, and don't waste your fetid breath telling me you have it. You don't.
You're a prefect example of someone who just doesn't have i
Re: (Score:3)
"Forever" is a straw man floated by people who don't want to believe there's anything we can do to help ourselves that works better than doing nothing. If you pretend a growing problem will go away, you end up being forced to act when it inevitably crosses whatever your pain threshold is. Since that's too late for *modest* and *short term* restrictions to work, you end up living with greater restrictions for longer.
Compare the US to South Korea; South Korea's COVID-19 response was swift and decisive, putt
Re:Can't hide forever (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a tragic story indeed, but people can't shut down the world forever.
If fuckwits like you actually obeyed some basic precautions no one would be talking about shutting down the world forever. Many countries have their economies re-open. My frigging parents were out drinking in a pub today posting selfies on Facebook because they lived in a country where people took the damn thing seriously. I on the other hand live in a country with a fair number of people like you who are apathetic and think your shitty economy is better than the lives, despite your ignorance that the economy would actually benefit from quick and strong viral measures compared to you approach of re-opening everything, writing off fellow human beings, and dragging out the pain as long as possible.
So forgive me for not mincing words, fuck you.
Ironically Trump provides an interesting counterpoint to this
No he doesn't. To think you are even remotely capable of treatment even remotely like his is hubris of truly moronic proportions.
Re: Can't hide forever (Score:5, Informative)
Drunk driving kills about 40,000 people per year in the United States
TOTAL traffic fatalities in America last year were about 38,800.
About 40% of those had alcohol as a factor. So about 16,000 drunk driving deaths.
Re: Can't hide forever (Score:5, Insightful)
And to think of all the effort we put into limiting those deaths as well.
- Restrictions on sale and consumption of alcohol (unlike actual restrictions, and instead merely suggestions to reduce comingling with COVID)
- Making it illegal with proper penalties to drive intoxicated (unlike the lack of actual legal power to force people to quarantine if they have a virus).
- Randomised testing to try and catch people who break the law (unlike the voluntary testing going on for the virus).
I wish the country would take the virus even partially as serious as drink driving.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: Can't hide forever (Score:5, Informative)
Smoking kills 480,000 people per year in the United States. Heart disease kills 860,000 people in the US.
Not this again... Smoking and heart disease are not contagious with daily new cases doubling every four days, like with Covid-19 before people started social distancing and wearing masks.
Without behavioral changes, 80% of the population would be infected over the course of about a month. The mortality rate seems to be 0.5% with proper healthcare, which would translate to 1.3 M deaths, but if they all happen in one month and the hospitals overflow, it will be 10x higher. (Hospitalizations in the US are about 8% of the number of positive cases.)
Re: Can't hide forever (Score:4, Informative)
Because folks did actual research, collected data, and drew conclusions based on the numbers.
You *expected* the COVID numbers to spike because of the protests. Your expectations are precisely why we have a Scientific Method and rely on it for forward progress. Human intuition and expectations are horribly flawed models to draw upon for analyzing reality.
The reality: the protests didn't cause COVID to spike. Being outdoors and having widespread mask usage actually worked. Ended up being a massive set of data points for disease modeling for the pandemic.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/t... [forbes.com]
Re:Oh for fuck's sake... (Score:5, Informative)
That's true, but there is evidence that the initial viral load you receive may affect how severe your symptoms are and a mask may reduce this initial viral load.
So, wearing a mask might make the difference between dying and having mild COVID-19 syptoms.
Let's recap: (Score:3)
A mask reduces the range and load you deliver when you breathe out if you have COVID; since after you've got it, usually there are 3 to 14 days before you become symptomatic (if you even do), wearing a mask can benefit many, many others while you are infectious and unaware of it, depending on your social interactions, distances, etc. over the course of those asymptomatic days.
If you continue going into situations where others could be exposed after you're symptomatic and obviously still infectious, masks an
Re:Oh for fuck's sake... (Score:5, Informative)
I'm sorry you've got other health problems, but that's really no excuse for believing something else is a hoax just because it doesn't impact you personally as much as the issues you're already facing.
Re:Oh for fuck's sake... (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm sorry you've got other health problems, but that's really no excuse for believing something else is a hoax just because it doesn't impact you personally as much as the issues you're already facing.
He didn't say it was a hoax. He said the data we have on the virus and the political rhetoric around the virus in the media don't match. And that causes bad policy responses. Also, he didn't say wearing a mask was ineffective. He said it just changes probabilities. This is absolutely what the science says but not what circles around in the media.
You actually prove his point. As you took disagreement with the party line to be heretical and trotted out the idea that if we all just did what you want this would all go away which isn't supported by the data currently. You really need to look inward and find out why this post triggered you so badly. It was clear and well written. So if you misunderstood it, the problem is something with you and how you perceive criticism and/or ideas you just don't like. I'm guessing its the idea that we don't completely control our own fates.
You're smart, look up the "basic reproduction rate (Score:5, Informative)
You're smart enough to understand it, so it might be useful for you to look up "basic reproduction rate" and think about what means. Specifically, to think about the consequences if R is 1.2 and the consequences if R is 0.8.
Suppose that in one particular place they have some limited set of measures to reduce the spread. Maybe they do social distances but rarely use masks or vice versa. So they have an R of 1.2. Currently, 1,000 people are infected in this city. R = 1.2 means that those 1,000 people will pass it to 1,200 people, who will have it two weeks from now.
Those 1,200 will pass it to 1,200 X 1.2 = 1,440 people. Who will pass it to 1,728 people. After a while everyone gets infected.
In another country, they have a different set of precautions in place, so the reproduction rate is 0.8. So the 1,000 people who have it today will pass it to 1,000 X 0.8 = 800 people. Those 800 will pass it to 640 people. Who will pass it to 512 people. Pretty soon nobody has it, the virus goes extinct.
That's the difference the two extra dice make.
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Let people build immunity. Get it over with.
Um, no. I would like to have my father around a bit longer, thank you. Not getting him infected with Covid-19 (at 91 years of age, and frail) will increase the changes of this happening.
You all can think of me what you wish.
Yes, and I have mixed feelings.
I refuse to be scared of this.
Your choice, as long as you do not increase the risks for anyone else, only for yourself. If you do things that increase the risks for other people, then you are evil, period.
my ulcerative colitis
My daughter has that. It sucks. I feel for you.
In the end, it all boils down to what you do, by choice.
If you knowingly
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The current corona strain isn't even the Wuhan one... it's less deadly but spreads quicker.
Wrong. Multiple strains are now running around because so many idiots in America had covid parties and/or did not wear masks. Sadly, a number of these strains are actually easier to catch and deadlier. 1 new one is not stopped by the typical hand sanitizer OR current mask.
Zink(sic) does not 'build' immunity. Zinc is a vital part of immunity (as well as protein building), but it does not ENHANCE immunity. For idiots taking the zinc supplements, they are simply throwin
Re:Oh for fuck's sake... (Score:4, Insightful)
Reducing the chance of getting it by 75% [livescience.com] (3 incidents in 4) is not a "real influence"? In something that has exponential spreading characteristics?
You're an idiot.
Re: (Score:3)
You demonstrate a high intelligence and tremendous ignorance. Most likely you are educated in a non-medical field and over-estimate your knowledge of the unrelated field.
Three issues.
1. It is VERY rare that 'everyone' gets a disease, particularly deadly ones. They tend to sicken people so they stay home and do not spread the disease well. Most of the time no more than 10% of the population gets a disease. At least if people do not do incredibly stupid things. Like ignore health experts advice because
Re: (Score:3)
Vitamin D is a bucket full of dice:
Study done: 76 participants, double blind, all went to hospital with COVID.
50 were given Vitamin D (processed further along than the pills you get), 23 weren't given vitamin D.
of the 50 given vitamin D, 1 went to ICU and recovered.
of the 23 in the control group, 13 went to ICU, 2 died.
So, if you want to be 25 times more likely to survive than the next guy, take vitamin D, literally half the western world is vitamin D deficient, your immune system can't function properly wh
Re: (Score:3)
You can add to that our continued refusal to invest real money in testing clinics and labs. We have neither the supplies to test in volume, nor the community penetration to let people get tested locally and at will, nor the labs to run in depth tests on a high volume basis.
We also should be distributing masks which are tested to some standards rather than telling people to make their own untested crap. Surgical masks are not great compared with N95 or P100 but they are at least made to FDA standards and tes
Re:I'm almost unhuman... (Score:4, Insightful)
No, you have malfunction between your ears. Plenty of gay people have various "conservative" values, just as plenty of straight people have "liberal" values. Some boring as fuck old gay couple in Iowa suburb would like to have some words with your type, I'm sure.
Even Trump has gay people on his staff, he really doesn't give a shit personally, he only cares about his vote base perception.
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There's a large difference.
Being gay, and having conservative values is common.
Being financially conservative, and prudent.
Not changing for the sake of change, but taking the thesis and antithesis to create a synthesis.
To desire change, but at a slow and controlled pace: Make small change, see how it settles out, make next change.
To be minimal with belongings -- to only purchase what is needed, not what is wanted -- limit greed.
The conservative values that apply broadly are not in question. They broadly a
Re: (Score:3)
There are many aspects to conservatism, like fiscal responsibility, military preparedness, small and local government. and right to self defense. 50 years ago, anti-gay beliefs were common among fundamentalist religious conservatives; this is much less true now. There is no widespread belief among conservatives that gays should be harmed.
The KKK, which is the old military arm of the Democrat Party, is explicitly anti-black, wanting to enslave those it doesn't kill.
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He wasnâ(TM)t the person who had to pay for the risk too all his doctors and hospital staff.
He is unlikely to have to have to cover all his medical bills, or lose pay for the time he chose to take off work . We are expected to pay for these people who choose to get sick, at $100,000 a pop.
A person who was actually willing to pay the price for his stupidity would have stayed at home and not endangered other people. This i
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Personally I'm loving the hypocrisy exposed by this pandemic. The same party who want the government passing laws about what happens in a woman's uterus cry freedom over a simple bit of cloth on their face.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)