Washington Post: Asymptomatic 'Superspreaders' May Be Propelling the Pandemic (stripes.com) 299
Saturday the Washington Post (in an article republished in Stars and Stripes) took a closer look at what's known as "superspreading events":
Many scientists say such infection bursts — probably sparked by a single, highly infectious individual who may show no signs of illness and unwittingly share an enclosed space with many others — are driving the pandemic. They worry these cases, rather than routine transmission between one infected person and, say, two or three close contacts, are propelling case counts out of control...
Transmission, it turns out, is far more idiosyncratic than previously understood. Scientists say they believe it is dependent on such factors as an individual's infectivity, which can vary person to person by billions of virus particles, whether the particles are contained in large droplets that fall to the ground or in fine vapor that can float much further, and how much the air in a particular space circulates. Donald Milton, a professor of environmental health at the University of Maryland, and other experts have wondered if superspreading events could be the "Achilles' heel" of the virus. If we could pinpoint the conditions under which these clusters occur, Milton argued, we could lower the transmission rate enough to extinguish the spread. "If you could stop these events, you could stop the pandemic," Milton said. "You would crush the curve..."
Some people will not transmit the virus to anyone, contact tracing has shown, while others appear to spread the virus with great efficiency. Overall, researchers have estimated in recent studies that some 10 to 20 percent of the infected may be responsible for 80 percent of all cases... An infected person's viral load can impact how much they "shed"; the differences have been shown to be on a scale of billions of virus particles... A growing body of evidence suggests that SARS-CoV2, like other coronaviruses, expands in a community in fits and starts, rather than more evenly over space and time....
While it's often impossible to identify the person who triggered an outbreak, there have been some commonalities among those who have been pinpointed as the likely source in studies. They tend to be young. Asymptomatic. Social. Scientists suspect these "super-emitters" may have much higher levels of the virus in their bodies than others, or may release them by talking, shouting or singing in a different way from most people... In a study published in Emerging Infectious Diseases by Japan's Hitoshi Oshitani at Tohoku University of 22 superspreading individuals with the coronavirus, about half were under the age of 40, and 41 percent were experiencing no symptoms.
Transmission, it turns out, is far more idiosyncratic than previously understood. Scientists say they believe it is dependent on such factors as an individual's infectivity, which can vary person to person by billions of virus particles, whether the particles are contained in large droplets that fall to the ground or in fine vapor that can float much further, and how much the air in a particular space circulates. Donald Milton, a professor of environmental health at the University of Maryland, and other experts have wondered if superspreading events could be the "Achilles' heel" of the virus. If we could pinpoint the conditions under which these clusters occur, Milton argued, we could lower the transmission rate enough to extinguish the spread. "If you could stop these events, you could stop the pandemic," Milton said. "You would crush the curve..."
Some people will not transmit the virus to anyone, contact tracing has shown, while others appear to spread the virus with great efficiency. Overall, researchers have estimated in recent studies that some 10 to 20 percent of the infected may be responsible for 80 percent of all cases... An infected person's viral load can impact how much they "shed"; the differences have been shown to be on a scale of billions of virus particles... A growing body of evidence suggests that SARS-CoV2, like other coronaviruses, expands in a community in fits and starts, rather than more evenly over space and time....
While it's often impossible to identify the person who triggered an outbreak, there have been some commonalities among those who have been pinpointed as the likely source in studies. They tend to be young. Asymptomatic. Social. Scientists suspect these "super-emitters" may have much higher levels of the virus in their bodies than others, or may release them by talking, shouting or singing in a different way from most people... In a study published in Emerging Infectious Diseases by Japan's Hitoshi Oshitani at Tohoku University of 22 superspreading individuals with the coronavirus, about half were under the age of 40, and 41 percent were experiencing no symptoms.
Well now (Score:4, Insightful)
This thread will be fun...
Re: (Score:2)
Stop giving monkeys a bad name.
Re: (Score:2)
Monkey see, monkey do. It is pretty much the same about any transmitted disease if you refer to the title.
Re: (Score:2)
Stop giving monkeys a bad name.
Well, at least he didn't compare the poor monkeys to Trump supporters.
If you could stop these events, you could stop... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I think you just identified the problem in a very terse and unambiguous way.
Re:If you could stop these events, you could stop. (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
I think it's time we finally realize that dealing in absolutes is not a solution to anything. The world is not binary, and neither are the things we are doing. Not everything that you do that limits your freedom is a threat to your freedom in general. We don't drive as fast as we can on the highway and we do not consider it a threat to our liberties that we're not allowed to go 150 within city limits just 'cause it might hurt a kid or two. We understand that this is a threat to society and even if you, in y
Re:If you could stop these events, you could stop. (Score:5, Insightful)
I think it's time we finally realize that dealing in absolutes is not a solution to anything. The world is not binary ...
In this case it pretty much is binary. There are two options. You can wear masks, distance and use hand sanitiser is which is smart. Or you can refuse to wear masks, distance and use hand sanitiser and thus wilfully sustain a pandemic just because you think it pisses off people whose politics you despise which is just stupid. Viruses do not have a political opinion, viruses have no nuance, they will happily infect anybody at all and you can either make it hard for them or you can make it easy for the virus to spread. Those are the two choices.
Re: If you could stop these events, you could stop (Score:4, Insightful)
You can socially distance in a paranoid manner or "sensibly" or barely at all or run around hugging strangers.
You can use varying quality hand sanitisers or wash your hand with varying degrees of hot water for varying amounts of time with soap.
This is NOT binary but more people doing the right thing helps us all. If half the world stays at home R0 falls by roughly half. Every little helps
Re: (Score:2)
You can wear a mask most of the time indoors (e.g. in shops but not at home), wear it all the time even when walking around alone. You can socially distance in a paranoid manner or "sensibly" or barely at all or run around hugging strangers. You can use varying quality hand sanitisers or wash your hand with varying degrees of hot water for varying amounts of time with soap. This is NOT binary but more people doing the right thing helps us all. If half the world stays at home R0 falls by roughly half. Every little helps
You are obfuscating. This is a simple binary choice, you either do something to prevent the spread of the virus or you decide to be a stupid asshole and don't do anything to contain the spread of the virus. There is now an abundance of examples of counties that went overwhelmingly for the 1st option and have long since contained the virus.
Re: If you could stop these events, you could sto (Score:3)
I fully promote anything that reduces R0 and helps us get past this sooner (just small flare ups here and there as in Hong Kong with 84 infections being a massive deal, or local lockdowns in Germany/UK). Will be very interesting to see what happens in the next 2 years
Re:If you could stop these events, you could stop. (Score:5, Insightful)
To correct their misbelief, you need to convince these people that this really is a pandemic. Unfortunately, double standards like refusing to criticize Floyd protesters for attending large public gatherings just reinforces their misbelief that this pandemic is a hoax. That really was an opportunity missed. If the media had come down hard criticizing the public protests due to the danger of the pandemic, it would've shown these who believe this is a media hoax that the media genuinely believes it's a pandemic - so much so that they're even willing to sacrifice causes dear to their heart because of it. Unfortunately, the lack of criticism simply reinforced their belief in the conspiracy. The way they see it, the media insists you should not gather in public, unless it's for a cause the media supports in which case it's OK. Not exactly the consistent message you expect for fighting a global health hazard.
Re: (Score:3)
it's
not
about
you.
You
wear
a
mask
to
reduce
the
chance
of
spreading
YOUR
snot
and
spit
cooties
to
others.
(this last line is just here to get around the stupid slashdot comment filter and to maybe say something about my favorite brand of chips - Lay's. They are really, really, really good chips, and so much better than most off-brand discounter chips. It's great to open a beer and a bag of Lay's and just take a break from all the dickholery that floods the world these days. Wouldn't it b
Re: (Score:2)
At worst it's a trade off between the gains and the risks, and as far as I can tell from the data I have the gains outweigh the risks by magnitudes.
Re:If you could stop these events, you could stop. (Score:4, Insightful)
It is as simple as that. The “reduced oxygen” claim for masks is complete bullshit. Learn some actual science. And no, oxygen levels are not increased in the ambient air in every hospital, urgent care, doctor’s office, dentist’s office, etc. etc. etc.
Re:If you could stop these events, you could stop. (Score:4, Interesting)
I tried to refute this claim by measuring my SpO2 before doing 42 pushups in a cheap KN95 and after (a previous test showed no significant effects of a similar level of exercise on my SpO2 without a mask). Result: my SpO2 went up from 97% to 99%. :-) So no refutation in this one trial n=1 "experiment".
I then looked for serious research on oxygen levels and N95 respirators ( http://www.rcjournal.com/conte... [rcjournal.com] ): there is only a very slight difference in SpO2 levels (98.5% for control vs 98.1% for mask) after an hour walking on a treadmill at 2.5mi/h.
One might expect even less effect using a typical home-made mask (but this may depend on design; subjectively, my cheap KN95 -- as well as my 3M half-face P100 respirator -- is noticeably easier to breathe through than my home-made fitted two-layer mask, perhaps because it has more filter air-intake area thereby lowering resistance, while the fitted mask adheres around the nose and mouth at inhalation, so only a small part of the filter is used for air-intake).
Re: (Score:2)
The P100 has an exhaust valve.
I was having hypoxic events at first with the mask; at rest I have very shallow breathing. My SpO2 did not show a change though. Likely the biggest cause of my tunnel vision was the mask itself. Now it isn’t as bad in general.
However, I sweat... and wearing a mask outside is miserable, especially when I need to breathe though my mouth. It would be painful if I lived in a place where they were needed outside while maintaining physical distancing.
Re: If you could stop these events, you could stop (Score:3)
My P100 has a 3D printed filter (loaded with surgical mask material, so not P100 level) over the exhaust valve. And, actually, the research I saw suggests that the effect of exhaust valves on SpO2 is non-existent, and on CO2 concentration is minimal.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:If you could stop these events, you could stop. (Score:5, Informative)
The ones it endangers already need on O2 cannula connected to a tank to not collapse while walking around. Since that would mean they have a serious lung disease or congestive heart failure, they are also in an extreme high risk group should they get COVID. The one person I know in that category does not go out. Her grown children do her shopping for her.
And no, the air is not O2 enriched in most medical facilities. That would be a serious fire hazard.
Now, spit that cool aid out and mask up! (In that order for best results)
Re: (Score:2)
Where do you take this complete nonsense? You seem to be lacking even elementary fact-checking abilities as you state "facts" that are complete bullshit.
Found the superspreader (Score:2)
Hopefully more people are working from home [dilbert.com] nowadays, though.
Re: (Score:2)
Hopefully more people are working from home nowadays, though.
That is one thing that has no negatives, but which all too many businesses are ignoring or just undoing. Working from home stops asymptomatic spread, and increasing productivity. Even before the pandemic, it should have been a fireable offense for management to not allow (or even require) those who can work from home to do so. Now, not doing so should be a prosecuteable offense as well. The sequencing doesn't matter.
Is it me (Score:2)
or are scientists in different continents repeat the same research over and over again with a delay timeframe. The superspreader problem was discussed in Europe publicly two months ago when studies of this phenomenon arrived. Now again, all I can say here is nothing new move along.
The same for masks, chinese doctors coming to italy recommended to wear masks in February as an effective countermeaser to spread the disease.
Re: (Score:2)
Special kids need to touch the stove themselves...
Re: (Score:2)
Special kids need to touch the stove themselves...
Pretty much. And some need to do it several times and will continue to claim they will not get burned if they do it.
Re: (Score:2)
And while I'm not one of those "I told you so guys" I saw this plausibility a while back https://slashdot.org/comments.... [slashdot.org]
And if I can see that by just using a bit of common sense while having no background in biology, the experts in those fields most certainly also saw it immediately and formed such a hypothesis. Still, such a hypothesis requires to be proven by evidence first before it can be accepted as a valid explanatio
Re: (Score:2)
For major research this is normal. The only reason this looks strange is that since this is such a public problem the news is reporting on how science works. If you find something really important and outside of what is normally expected then other labs will replicate it. Since this is such a huge emergency governments are funding a lot of research and one of the important things is trying to make sure our understanding is correct. That means lots of replication in various locations and conditions to try an
It's not you. (Score:2)
Scientists absolutely repeat each others' work. They do this because novel research results often don't hold up. In fact, I'd say most exciting new results are false.
Reporters don't understand that. Like the general public, they've been brought up on pop-culture tropes of a lone scientist in his laboratory discovering some kind of new, unassailable truth. In reality this almost never happens. When it does appear to happen, 99% of the time it's a mistake. Even the best scientist can't think of every possi
Science (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The superspreader problem was discussed in Europe publicly two months ago when studies of this phenomenon arrived. Now again, all I can say here is nothing new move along.
The problem is that the WHO continues to muddy the waters [statnews.com]. I'm getting more and more on board with the idea that funding them is a waste of money...
How not to be a superspreader: (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
But muh freedumz!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It seems the people sitting inside still don't feel the heat, though.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: How not to be a superspreader: (Score:2)
How does wearing a mask impose any restriction on your freedom that wearing a shirt or shoes does not also?
A mask makes it somewhat difficult to socialize on a bar patio while enjoying a beer and a burger. A shirt and shoes do not.
Freedom's just another word for nothing left... (Score:2)
How does wearing a mask impose any restriction on your freedom that wearing a shirt or shoes does not also?
A mask makes it somewhat difficult to socialize on a bar patio while enjoying a beer and a burger. A shirt and shoes do not.
It's pretty hard to do those things when you're hooked up to a ventilator though. So it might be a temporary freedom.
But only trivial fraction of the twenty- and thirty-somethings who catch COVID19 get a case bad enough to end up hooked up to a ventilator. For the majority of that particular age bracket, it's going to be mild. A week in the hospital on supplemental oxygen, maybe.
...but because it's mild, they will spread it around like wildfire. So it's the grandparents who die.
Re: (Score:2)
How does wearing a mask impose any restriction on your freedom that wearing a shirt or shoes does not also?
You're wearing cloths going out? I just go in the nude. Surprisingly it works in winter too. The act of running away from the police warms you up.
Re: (Score:2)
It's not a partisan issue. Both parties abuse the crisis for petty political bickering.
But yes, at this point I just enjoy watching the world burn. If people let their politicians descend into petty bickering and egg them on by rewarding this behaviour instead of demanding them to either present solutions or send them to hell (I mean, what the fuck do you have that 2nd for if you don't want to make use of it?), they deserve to burn.
Re: (Score:2)
The people refusing to wear a mask apparently need shaming. Reason hasn't worked, asking nicely hasn't worked, there's not much left.
If that doesn't work, I guess we'll have to start running their pants up the flag pole.
Re: (Score:2)
That could change if these breathalyzer-type detectors pan out.
https://www.medgadget.com/2020... [medgadget.com]
The question is accuracy. But in light of this story, maybe 100% detection of virus in the body is not important. If breathing into this device is highly predictive of whether that individual will spread to others, and we could all check our selves daily, then detecting asymptomatic, non-contagi
Re: (Score:2)
41% showing no symptoms = most show symptoms (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Note, in medical literature, asymptomatic means never showing symptoms through the entire course of the infection.
It is very much possible to be infected and feeling fine, go out and give it to a dozen other people, then the next day you look and feel like hell.
That's not even counting the people who ARE symptomatic but write it off as allergies or a little cold.
That's why the proper practice is if you feel sick, stay home. If you feel fine, socially distance and wear a mask.
Allergies (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Being an equally good armchair virologist as anyone else, I propose that viruses are primarily spread by asymptomatic allergy sufferers who sneeze a lot.
Huh, that's not actually a bad hypothesis.
Masks, in that case, will help twice; both by stopping droplets, but also by stopping pollen from triggering the allergic sneezing.
Charisma and Popularity (Score:2)
A super spreader could be as simple as someone being very popular or charismatic - a person who is generally loved and thus causes others to lower their guard around them.
Re: Charisma and Popularity (Score:2)
You mean super spreaders are primarily sex workers.
Re: (Score:2)
No. I mean people unlike yourself.
The spread of infectious respiratory disease (Score:4, Interesting)
Some people will not transmit the virus to anyone, contact tracing has shown, while others appear to spread the virus with great efficiency. Overall, researchers have estimated in recent studies that some 10 to 20 percent of the infected may be responsible for 80 percent of all cases...
I have a strong hunch that this is true for most all infectious respiratory diseases, like the various strains of flu, the common cold, etc. There are a surprising number of common things that have never been studied (rigorously) in human health, because doctors feel they already have a good enough handle on them, or they do not often result in death or long-term health issues (in other words, the research money isn't there). I think we are learning a lot more about how any respiratory infection spreads from person to person, due to the amount of money and effort being spent to figure out this one specific virus. Especially things like asymptomatic carriers, superspreading individuals, how blood type can affect the severity of the symptoms, the tremendous amount of diversity in the severity of symptoms between people, etc.
There have been many times where one or more of my kids have had the flu and other colds, and I did not get it (even though I was talking care of them pretty much right in their face). That makes me wonder if I did indeed catch it is well, but was simply asymptomatic.
After all, COVID-19 is just another coronavirus, which is a very common type of virus family. There isn't anything especially exotic or vastly different in its DNA, so we wouldn't expect it to have all of these strange traits which no other viruses have.
Re: (Score:2)
Some people will not transmit the virus to anyone, contact tracing has shown, while others appear to spread the virus with great efficiency. Overall, researchers have estimated in recent studies that some 10 to 20 percent of the infected may be responsible for 80 percent of all cases...
I have a strong hunch that this is true for most all infectious respiratory diseases, like the various strains of flu, the common cold, etc
You are right about one thing, this is a common phenomenon. However, it doesn't apply to just human health, it applies to a wide number of natural phenomenon. It was first identified by an economist, Vilfredo Pareto. [wikipedia.org] The 80/20 relationship is called the Pareto principle. [wikipedia.org]
Potential bias (Score:2)
I would be careful about "superspreader" theories.
Once a person is tested positive, naturally, you are going to do some contact tracing and maybe find a few more case. But there is no indication of who infected who.
For example, someone who is tested positive went to a club, bar, and gym. People in that club, bar, and gym will be tested and cases will be found. It is easy to mark the original person as a "superspreader", but maybe the 3 places are 3 independent clusters and the so called "superspreader" just
Indoors, you say? (Score:2)
probably sparked by a single, highly infectious individual who may show no signs of illness and unwittingly share an enclosed space with many others
That explains why Governor Newsom believes it's the safest place to be. Avoid those beaches with all that UV and fresh air and separation. Stay huddled together in the dark, nervously glancing at each other wondering which one is the carrier!
Re: (Score:2)
Beaches are fine if you stay separated, but don't go to a beach like this one: https://www.google.com/url?sa=... [google.com]
It could be worse (Score:2)
They could try no platforming or canceling as a strategy to shrink the number of cases.
Re: (Score:2)
They could try no platforming or canceling as a strategy to shrink the number of cases.
Did you mean "deplatforming"?
meanwhile, in The Crucible (Score:2)
"While it's often impossible to identify the person who triggered an outbreak.. They tend to be young. Asymptomatic. Social. ... talking, shouting or singing in a different way from most people."
"Asymptomatic," so they only way to find the hidden super-dangerous ones is if they are "young" and acting "different." Surely I'm not the only person who sees what behaviour this vague advise will justify.
So, the loudest, most in your face people... (Score:2)
... are potentially super-spreaders? ;)
We all know the type. Those who do not seem to understand social distance in normal times. Those that feel the need to constantly be heard and generally bellow above everyone else in order to do so. Those who would just barge into a group of people who are quietly chatting, just to be heard? "Here I am folks! Miss me?"
It's those damn voice projecting shouty fake loud laughing ones you have to watch out for.
I always knew there was something shifty about that type, damn
Re: (Score:2)
I wouldn't exactly say without masks. True, the stuff they wear is somewhere between ridiculous and outright pointless, and plainly so for everyone with a working brain cell or two, but then again, we are talking about People of WalMart [peopleofwalmart.com].
Maybe, its all the "Fighters against Racism"? (Score:2)
The one time I visited Walmart in May, no one was allowed in without a mask.
Moreover, staff designated separate doors to exit and entrance — and enforced the designation to eliminate the people facing each other at the doors.
The "racist" protests, meanwhile...
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that. Maybe the rest of the world can finally wake up and point to the US as an example of what can happen if you let fake news run rampart in a crisis. We at least may learn from your deaths, you obviously decided against it.
Re:Bullshit (Score:4, Insightful)
I sat down and calculated the current death rates compared to the total population in the countries (because oddly that doesn't show up). For the 10 top croaking nations right now (or rather, 2 days ago because the result from today aren't in yet and from 1 day ago it looks like data is missing, but you're invited to do it for yesterday if you think it would in any way paint a more favorable picture. Hint: It would certainly not).
Nation : Death per million : New deaths per million and day
San Marino : 1238 : 0
Belgium : 845 : 0.25
Andorra : 673 : 0
UK : 666 : 1.68
Spain : 608 : 0.09
Italy : 579 : 0.18
Sweden : 556 : 0.99
France : 462 : 0.21
Chile : 436 : 5.21
USA : 429 : 2.85
In other words, the only country that actually has a higher death-per-day ratio than the US is the one that came late to the party and is still in the early stages where the virus culls the weakest and most susceptible. Same happens by the way in Brazil and Peru with a comparable death ratio but they're still behind the US in position 11 and 12 (with 388 and 367 dead-per-million), so there's still hope you might even drop out of the top 10, if only briefly until you overtake some of the European countries that managed to get it under control.
Even the UK with its almost as capable leadership and Sweden with its please-be-nice-and-cooperate-mmmkay approach are doing better than the US.
How much does it take 'til you people start to take that shit serious?
Re: Bullshit (Score:2)
You adjust for Chile but did you also adjust for when each country hit a point such as first 1000?
The data is much more interesting and useful when normalized.
Re: (Score:3)
I don't think you want to touch total number of deaths and normalize against it, unless you want to argue just how fucked up the US really is.
Re: (Score:2)
Data source [Re:Bullshit] (Score:2)
I wish people would use statistics to try to understand the situation, and not to attempt to argue a pre-determined conclusion.
(and I wish people of both ideologies would do this.)
I sat down and calculated the current death rates compared to the total population in the countries (because oddly that doesn't show up).
It shows up if you go to this site, which shows statistics including case fatality rate rate:
https://91-divoc.com/pages/cov... [91-divoc.com]
Use the "add additional highlights" at the bottom to compare the U.S. with WHO data on Europe (labelled "WHO Europe"). Use "show highlight only" to get the scale right (otherwise the vertical scal
Re: (Score:2)
The most-louded European country is Germany, with case-fatality of 4.25%. America's rate is 3.73%, but guess which country is constantly called "the worst"?
Belgium's CFR is over 15%, and France's — over 17%, but do you ever hear about that? At least, the denunciations of our "for profit" healthcare — so prominent in March-April — have subsided for now...
Re: (Score:2)
Belgium includes all cases that might be COVID related [bbc.com] in the statistics, We might have to compare death rates last year to this year instead if we really wanted to see what's really cooking because some countries also report an incredibly low death toll (Qatar for example, 37k sick but 54 deaths? Really?).
France, though, is a government blunder. No doubt about that.
Re: (Score:2)
And if you understand basic math you know that the CFR increases proportionally with the fatalities and inverse proportionally with the reported case numbers. Hence if you have a lot of reported cases your CFR tends to look better.
Re: (Score:2)
The number of excess deaths in Germany differs from the number of confirmed deaths by about 300 deaths and Germany has been testing early and often - matter of fact, the WHO test protocol came from Germany. So nope, not really underreporting.
Re: (Score:2)
According to your source the average death per million and day currently in the EU is 0.18, in the US it's 2.32. This has nothing to do with the number of people because even if you remove it from the equation it doesn't make it look any better. Sorry. it IS an order of magnitude worse.
The only countries right now having a worse current death per million rate are Peru, Brazil, Mexico, Bolivia, Colombia and Guatemala, all countries that not only came way after the US but also aren't exactly known for their f
Re:Bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah! Never mind that the US has had a lower death rate from covid-19 than France, the UK, Spain, Italy, Belgium....
Shut up about the death rate. The rate is only an excuse by those who want to deflect from the fact their initial lies about this being no worse than the flu, that more people die in car accidents in a year, that this is no big deal, that this is nothing but a hoax, have failed and have to use statistics like a drunk man uses a lamp post: for support rather than illumination.
The U.S. has over 150,000 dead in five months. If this were a war, and supposedly the draft dodging con artist claims it is, it would be the third on the list. After the 9/11 attacks we had two entirely new government agencies created, had the government telling phone companies they had to illegally wiretap phones, now have to take our shoes off and be treated like criminals just to get on a plane, and that was only when less than 3,000 people died. We have 50 times the number of dead and people are whining about "their freedoms" for having to wear a mask for 30 minutes when they go shopping.
Do these same people whine they have to wear shoes and a shirt to go into a store? Do they whine they can't be blitzed out drunk when driving (some probably do)? Do they whine they have to stop at a red light?
The same people who claim they want law and order are the same ones whining the government can't tell them what to do. It would be nice if they would make up their minds.
Case fatality rate [Re:Bullshit] (Score:2)
Yeah! Never mind that the US has had a lower death rate from covid-19 than France, the UK, Spain, Italy, Belgium....
Shut up about the death rate.
You mean case fatality rate, I think. Case fatality rate is an interesting and important statistic that's very much worth looking at. But... it's not a good statistic for tracking the progress of the epidemic, because a huge part of the variation is simply changes ih the age of the population that is catching the disease. It also varies from country to country simply because of the way they test.
Bottom line, look at case fatality rate, but don't track the pandemic using it. A better tool for tracking the
Re: (Score:2)
And here the US is actually quite decent in performing tests if you compare it with many other developed nations, assuming that the tests are good.
France for example still only has performed about 2.6 million tests, which given their population 65 million. That's less than less than 1 person out of 20 assuming that they didn't test too many people more than once.
The US on the other hand performed 47 million tests on their 331 milli
Re: (Score:2)
It'll be gone soon if US states like TX, FL, CA, and AZ don't get their shit together soon and maybe don't do stupid things like re-opening Disney World exactly during a time where new infections and deaths are spiking in the very same state.
I do hope they'll come around sooner than later. But we'll have to see how that plays out.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You keep telling yourself that. In the meantime, the rest of the world recovers from the virus while the US descends in bipartisan bickering and becomes irrelevant.
I don't know whether you noticed it, but the US is the ONLY first world country that even after 4 months with the infection still struggles to get it under control. I don't know what it takes for your leaders to wake up and realize that this is not the moment of petty politics but of sensible action, but if they don't realize it, maybe they are u
Re: (Score:2)
There's a meme which says...
"The only way Trump would have stopped COVID-19 before it started was if it was a witness at his impeachment hearing."
Re: (Score:2)
This goes way beyond the problem of a single party at this point. This is a systemic problem by now. Because both of your parties are rather trying to abuse the crisis for political gains than working on solving it.
Get rid of both of them and find new politicians. At this point, that seems to be the only option left.
Re: (Score:2)
It was never supposed to work that way. What we have learned, and what we are seeing, is that between the President and the Senate Majority leader, two people can run the whole show.
Re: (Score:2)
You still don't get that this isn't a matter of democrat or republican, do you? Screw politics, now we have a real crisis to handle that needs some real solutions, you can get back to your childish who said what and who hit whom first when we've stopped people from dying, ok?
Re: (Score:2)
You still don't get that this isn't a matter of democrat or republican, do you?
Stop saying this, it's making Slashdot dumber. The virus might not care about such things, but the people in charge of the response certainly do. Covering your ears and eyes and shouting "politics doesn't matter!" doesn't actually change the impact of politics on the response to Covid-19.
Screw politics, now we have a real crisis to handle that needs some real solutions, you can get back to your childish who said what and who hit whom first when we've stopped people from dying, ok?
We can't stop people from dying while one political party is in a position to prevent us from doing so, and has repeatedly taken actions that kill people.
Re: (Score:2)
Ok. Ok. I tried. Can't say I didn't try. So please don't mind me, I'll go sit down with a box of popcorn and just enjoy the show from now on.
Re: (Score:2)
What did banning travel from countries like Nigeria and Sudan have to do with stopping COVID back in January?
“The Trump Admin’s expansion of its un-American travel ban is a threat to our security, our values and the rule of law. Barring more than 350 million people from predominantly African countries from traveling to the US, this rule is discrimination disguised as policy.” - Nancy Pelosi
Re: (Score:2)
But only one of them is deliberately avoiding the measures necessary to control it.
Airconditioners (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You're thinking of legionnaires disease.
Re: Typhoid Mary v.2 (Score:5, Informative)
"Karen" is a racist and sexist term design intentionally to shutdown while women. What do white women have to do with covid spread and why do you use this hateful term?
Re: (Score:2)
Karen is a term used describe a particular type of behavior in a race neutral way. Whether white women happen to engage in that particular type of behavior is due to a lack of community values and education, not their race.
Libtards like you just see racism everywhere and slap that label upon anyone who disagrees with you in order to control others.
See, I can play the game too.
Re: (Score:2)
The Karen meme did not turn racist until the BLM left decided that it had to be so. Originally she was just an archetypical bossy thirtyish woman.
Re: (Score:2)
The Karen meme did not turn racist until the BLM left decided that it had to be so.
The Karen meme is not racist because white is not a race.
The Karen meme began to appear racist when many Karens began doing things which appeared racist, like calling the cops because black girls were selling bottled water "without a permit".
Re: (Score:2)
Deaths lag infection rates ya moron.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
So you're saying those states renting refrigerator trucks and parking them at the morgue are just planning a really huge surprise ice-cream party?
All those people in the statistics are just pining for the fjords?
Re: (Score:2)
a) Deaths trail infection by several weeks, and that time is getting longer as medical treatment improves
b) The US is seeing an increase in deaths, it has started a few days back
Re: (Score:2)
If Republicans were actually as murderous as the Marxist Left say, you and your friends would already be dead.
All the murders in the riots and in the so-called 'autonomous zones' were committed by murderous Leftists the same as every other time Leftists have tried to grab power in other places.
Communism and Socialism have killed vastly more people in their own countries than have died in all the wars of the 20th century combined and far, far more than this 'plandemic' has or will ever cause.
Strat
Re: FUCK Republicans. (Score:2)
More like the muppets protesting in large numbers. But apparently that was a safe exercise. Bollocks.
And then you get idiots like the California governor who believes that releasing circa 8,000 prisoners to no home, no job, but pretty good criminal skill sets is a great thing, and likely to save them from Covid-19.