Quest for a Vaccine: Oxford Reaches Final Large-Scale Trial (msn.com) 256
An anonymous reader quotes The Washington Post:
In the global race for a coronavirus vaccine, more than 100 labs, universities and drug companies have started off on experimental missions. But just 11 candidate vaccines, according to the World Health Organization, have reached the stage of clinical testing. The WHO says that only Oxford University's vaccine has reached what is known as Phase 3, the final and largest-scale trial... "There is quite a strong probability that the vaccine will work," said Walter Ricciardi, the World Health Organization's Italian government adviser.
But the vaccine is far from a sure thing, according to experts. It might not work, or it might give immunity to only some of those who are injected. Even once a vaccine makes it to market, it remains unknown whether it will offer long-term protection, or only for a year or two. The world will ultimately need more than one vaccine anyway, as demand will soar beyond what any one company could produce. "The expectation is that we will have a protective vaccine. Probably more than one," said Antonio Cassone, the former head of the infectious-disease department at Italy's national health institute.
"But nobody will know at that time how long the protection will last. We don't know the antibody duration. This will be yet another jump into the unknown."
A Chinese biotech firm has reported encouraging results in early-stage clinical trials and is also among the front-runners to crack the vaccine code.
The article adds that Oxford's vaccine "proved effective and safe with rhesus monkeys during the earliest stage of experimentation."
But the vaccine is far from a sure thing, according to experts. It might not work, or it might give immunity to only some of those who are injected. Even once a vaccine makes it to market, it remains unknown whether it will offer long-term protection, or only for a year or two. The world will ultimately need more than one vaccine anyway, as demand will soar beyond what any one company could produce. "The expectation is that we will have a protective vaccine. Probably more than one," said Antonio Cassone, the former head of the infectious-disease department at Italy's national health institute.
"But nobody will know at that time how long the protection will last. We don't know the antibody duration. This will be yet another jump into the unknown."
A Chinese biotech firm has reported encouraging results in early-stage clinical trials and is also among the front-runners to crack the vaccine code.
The article adds that Oxford's vaccine "proved effective and safe with rhesus monkeys during the earliest stage of experimentation."
"only for a year or two" should be enough? (Score:5, Insightful)
> it remains unknown whether it will offer long-term protection, or only for a year or two.
If it offers at least a year of immunity perhaps we can just roll it into the standard annual flu shot most people get? That should allow us to mostly eradicate this thing within a few years, plus people who get the vaccine won't be have to wear masks or worry about catching it.
A bit too Optimistic (Score:5, Informative)
That should allow us to mostly eradicate this thing within a few years
The smallpox vaccine was invented in 1796 but smallpox was not eradicated until 1977 and immunity there was considerably longer-lived than 2 years and the virus could not live outside humans. Polio is still not eradicated and we have had a vaccine for that since 1955 which gives lifelong immunity although over the last 30 years we have reduced the number of cases per year from 350k to 33 [wikipedia.org].
If immunity only lasts a couple of years then it is unlikely that we will ever be rid of the virus but, as you say, we can at least control it with regular vaccinations and life can get back to normal.
Re:A bit too Optimistic (Score:4, Interesting)
Smallpox was eradicated because of an unprecedented WHO programme sponsored by the USSR and the USA paired with compulsory vaccination in many countries. Polio could have been, but wasn't thanks to the CIA and antivaxxers.
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This ones mostly on the CIA if we're both thinking of the same thing.
Back around a decade ago, the CIA started using spies within the WHO to get out to hard-to-reach communities in Taliban controlled areas and setup arms deals and other military assistance things.
Eventually the Taliban worked it out, and combined ,with their , frankly justified, paranoia about the west, lead them to consider the WHO.a national security risk to what remains of Taliban territory, a
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It was worse than that in some areas, in West Africa they forged papers saying they were UN health workers distributing polio vaccines and were injecting people with saline. Thousands of people mistakenly think their kids are safe from polio now.
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I really hope the CIA has some secret things they have saved us from; because based on all their publicly known actions they might be the worlds most evil terrorist organization.
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This is the important part. If the virus can live outside of humans, then in order to eradicate the virus, you not only have to vaccinate most of the people on the planet, you also have to vaccinate most of the animals which can host it. The latter is usually impossible (you can sometimes do it by leaving out bait food dosed with the vaccine).
COVID-19 is currently theorized to have jumped t
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then in order to eradicate the virus, you not only have to vaccinate most of the people on the planet, you also have to vaccinate most of the animals which can host it.
If it's as infectious in animals as it is in humans (R0=2.5), those animal populations may achieve herd immunity very quickly. Note that the 60% threshold for herd immunity is not approached asymptotically; you get an overshoot to about 90% herd immunity at about 6 generations after the peak of infections. By then, the transmission number has dropped to Rt=0.25; with 15 more generations it's gone even if you have a population of a billion.
It's "flattening the curve" (reduction of Rt by a temporary change i
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It can live outside of humans, domestic dogs and cats have caught it (although its still unknown if they can pass it on). Although it originated in bats the virus was resident in some different host for several years until it evolved into a human-transmissible form, the most strongly suspected hosts are feral dogs which had eaten dead or ill bats.
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I was thinking hold back on the next economic stimulus and make it a $2000 payment for getting vaccinated. I dunno how that would work with medical ethics tho.
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What's this about needing more than one though? Are they saying they won't licence it to be mass produced at many factories? Or that they need two different ones to make use of two different types of drug manufacturing processes?
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There are already two major and several minor strains in the wild, and no evidence whether exposure to one provides immunity to others or not.
Re:"only for a year or two" should be enough? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm 73 and quite likely to croak if I get this damned thing, soooo... if it last for 3 months, and I have to go back to CVS and get a new shot each time, I will.
Without a vaccine I'm home, mowing the lawn, clearing some land out back, cleaning the blank out of the house, making things "better" within my several computers, cleaning out the garage, scanning excessive printed matter into digital form with a fast scanner and hauling the printed matter to recycling, and pretty much everything I could do at home. Also, shopping is at 6 AM into and out of the grocery within about 10 minutes, and curbside pickup of interesting stuff at Best Buy with no opportunity to browse. Restaurants are drive-thrus. Life is not "lonely" since "lonely" is being alone and depressed over it, but I'm not depressed, so just alone. Missing seeing a lot of people, especially at poker.
With a vaccine, I'm going to the gym (almost) every day (goal is every day, but not that driven to get it done ), a movie as often as it takes for me to have seen them all for the week, live bar poker at a couple local bars 5 out of 7 nights a week, shopping when I want, eat inside at Cracker Barrel once in a while, and generally having a pleasant life, including having a good time with friends and acquaintances at poker.
This sucks. I'd take a shot more often than every 3 months if that's what it took. Just get the damned thing done, done soon, and make it available yesterday. Oxford / Astrazenica is planning on having 2 billion, with a 'b', doses pre-manufactured in September, and that's 1/4 of the world's population, so we OUGHT to be able to get it. I figure I should have a little priority because of 73, right behind healthcare workers and police / fire / ambulance people. But anyway, on the firsts day of availability, I intend to be 1st in line. Don't get in my way, it could be hazardous!
Now to go mow the lawn, and do a rare trip to the gym. Place is huge, not many show up, so I'm fairly safe - generally closest person might be 10 feet. Usually more. But I shouldn't have to worry about it...
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With a vaccine, I'm going to the gym (almost) every day (goal is every day, but not that driven to get it done ),
If you're not going to the gym, try P90x. The results are amazing. Might need to start slow, only 15 minutes a day (or less) but you can work up.
Cyclists can't go in the drive-thru (Score:2)
Restaurants are drive-thrus.
Which incidentally isn't very helpful to cyclists. Some restaurants (such as Chick-fil-A) have curbside pickup options where I order online and a team member delivers my order to the parking lot. Others (such as the Wendy's near me) confirmed that they have gone drive-thru only and are refusing service to pedestrians and cyclists.
Cognitive dissonance (Score:3)
"proved effective and safe with rhesus monkeys during the earliest stage of experimentation."
Hominid rights now!
Oh wait, I forgot, secular society is ethically and philosophically incoherent.
Re:Cognitive dissonance (Score:4, Insightful)
Any group of people has widely variant ethics and philosophy. Religious texts do not remove that. You have big schism -- Eastern Orthodox/Roman Catholic/Protestant or Suni/Shiite -- but you also have the smaller breaks (works vs faith, Christians who believe allowing others to choose on abortion, gays who follow Christ, etc). Secular society is nothing special in this regard.
Hamsters (Score:4)
My ex-wife and I used to have two hamsters. From the hamsters' point of view, this giant hand would occasionally come into their world and give them food. Sometimes Hand would take them out of the world, put them into another place, and then later return them, with the land renewed. (We humans call it "cleaning out the hamster cage"). A few times, Hand would even take hold of them and dunk thrm in water, which caused great fear.
I can imagine the conversations they'd have about Hand, if they could talk. Can you imagine them discussing the nature of Hand, even arguing about what they thought about Hand? I'm sure their ideas about me would be quite funny, to me - way off base for sure.
Such it is with our conversations regarding what we think of that which created the universe and all of physics and science. We do out best to understand, and we keep finding me eays that we are wrong. We know that we don't understand, if we have any intellectual honesty at all.
Creations don't fully understand their creator, and that's okay.
* keep finding new ways we are wrong (Score:2)
That should be "we keep finding new ways we are wrong".
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That does clarify. And handily, provides advocacy for a wider audience.
Looking forward to the freedom to discuss such subtleties forever, should we choose.
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Log in, spend a few minutes posting, own another mod forever.
I love the efficiency of the Internet.
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There's no such thing as a "Mortal Sin", except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which is extremely difficult even to attempt--it implies directly experiencing a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, knowing it is Good, and verbally attacking it anyway.
I think you've been taking your theology too much from Hollywood.
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Don't worry about my age, that's irrelevant for my context. Worry about yours, where it isn't.
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Maybe try another one of those desperate "royal we's". It might change your telomeres.
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Sounds like a pot/kettle claim to me, persistent Slashdot coward.
I've explained my investment strategy. When I'm not doing this, I make six figures as a "Senior Software Engineer", and likely know more in that domain than 90% of Slashdot as well. When something in that domain is of interest, I post in that regard. But really, code and consulting gets boring, and the paychecks there are assured.
So, your hope that the commentary of some Internet random is going to have an effect, is misplaced. Particularl
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Well, wrong on your scripture, but I don't do intra-theist arguments here.
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But, for your followup: Matthew 12:27, Matthew 16:19, Matthew 10:28.
Assuming you aren't just trolling, we will have the opportunity to discuss in more detail later.
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Thanks for the theistic posts, and you mistake my purpose here, and your role in it.
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But, more on the level of English knowledge than theology, I suggest you look up the word "delegation".
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You need better trolling skills, troll. You never succeed. Or, perhaps you aren't the exact same troll as the last months. In which case, being a confident theist you are, and not pretending to be for the purpose of undermining it, post non-coward.
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Wait... When did that happen?
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Varies based on when the individual DNA manifestation agreed that a) there's only materialism, b) rhesus monkeys are materially indistinguishable from other hominids, and c) they still have distinct and logically justifiable rights.
In other words, YMMV.
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Two words for you: Euthyphro dilemma.
The notion that atheistic people can't determine what is right or wrong is actually a longstanding debate among Christian theologians, but even most Divine Commandment theorists would stop short of claiming an atheist is incapable of knowing that murder is wrong.
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Now you just have to back that other than as an ignorable subjective assertion, equally "valid" as the direct opposite assertion.
I do appreciate the general atheistic notion that evolution worked historically by means of smiles, giggles, and niceness fairy dust, until big bad religion came along, but at what point in history would you say that murder changed it's ethical nature from simply a mechanism of evolution, to be judged based on whether it succeeded at propagating one's DNA or not?
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Keep that up, then. If you can.
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There is no trolling on -my- part here. That implies something not of value, which is the -only- thing your posts can be, given "not-X" cannot, and is not, ever anything of value.
It is, to be specific, just a Reification Fallacy. That is, it is nothing, and that's why you can be nothing but a temporary parasite off of actual value, that is, my position.
Suggest away. We both know what your outcome will be, evolution will just eliminate you, and there will be no reason to give anything you say the slightes
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I'd suggest you get an entirely different user account here and start over. You've pretty much played this one out. Thin as tissue paper and holds up about as poorly.
He's already abandoned at least two [slashdot.org] other accounts. [slashdot.org] It's the same pattern with him - bring up religion in discussions that have nothing to do with it, get modded into oblivion, lose karma bonus, create new account.
He's one of the most pathetic trolls we have around here.
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Yes, you need to read everything from every account.
Or, the default. Doesn't matter to me.
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The odd thing to me is, that you find this history surprising. Slashdot has always been Leftist Atheist Central. That's why I'm here.
Or to put it in more Slashdot-appealing terms, "never a more wretched hive of scum and villainy".
Now feel free to review that history, and see if you can tell me those moderations were intellectually honest with a straight face. The lack of it, and the motivations, are always transparent.
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Just remember, he who laughs last.
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I understand you're pretending to laugh, but who cares.
I'm the only one who can -possibly- laugh last.
And I will, and the best.
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Yes, one of the great purposes of Heaven is to allow the self-righteous to look down on the condemned and laugh. Divine schadenfreude FTW!
Still waiting on the list of accounts you've used here. There should be no problem with you providing the information, as long as you stand by the things you say and aren't embarrassed by any of it.
So let's have it. We're waiting.
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Nobody said there'd be no ironic humor in heaven. It will be quite enjoyable in many ways. In fact, why don't you look around and let others in your vicinity know about it, before your implicit decision to abandon them forever, you know, hits home?
But, let's be clear, you are literally "asking for it" every single day.
As for the links of your interest, they were already posted.
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Nobody said there'd be no ironic humor in heaven. It will be quite enjoyable in many ways.
There's nothing "ironic" or "humorous" about those condemned by their creator, no matter what your twisted beliefs make you think.
In fact, why don't you look around and let others in your vicinity know about it, before your implicit decision to abandon them forever, you know, hits home?
No idea what you're talking about. How is anything I've said here imply I've made a decision to abandon those around me forever? You have obviously deluded yourself somehow.
But, let's be clear, you are literally "asking for it" every single day.
Still no idea what you're talking about. What is this "it" I'm literally asking for every single day? Another one of your delusions, I guess. You seem to have quite a capacity for them.
As for the links of your interest, they were already posted.
Uh huh. So aeropag [slashdot.org]
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condemned by their creator
He's not doing it, you are. You can change your otherwise-inevitable (including per science) outcome in 15 seconds, if you are willing. But you aren't.
How is anything I've said here imply I've made a decision to abandon those around me forever?
You insist on your physical death, and that there's no continuity after that. "Abandon them forever" is the exact same thing, worded more clearly.
Still no idea what you're talking about. What is this "it" I'm literally asking for every single day?
Your death. And whatever may happen after that. For any such further things, you're opting-out.
Like I said, you're completely predictable.
I would hope so. But, to be fair, I'm not quite that consistent, yet.
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He's not doing it, you are. You can change your otherwise-inevitable (including per science) outcome in 15 seconds, if you are willing. But you aren't.
You insist on your physical death, and that there's no continuity after that. "Abandon them forever" is the exact same thing, worded more clearly.
Your death. And whatever may happen after that. For any such further things, you're opting-out.
Like I said, you're delusional. I've said nothing here or anywhere else on this site about my spiritual beliefs and practices. That you think I'm some sort of atheist (or otherwise not entitled to an afterlife) because I dare call you out on your shit just goes to show what a feeble, illogical, and delusional mind you possess. And you compound it all with arrogance. You make harsh judgments on people without any basis whatsoever to do so.
You want to vilify others because they're atheists and "can't b
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I've said nothing here or anywhere else on this site about my spiritual beliefs and practices.
This would be considerably more efficient if you specified what those are. By default, when someone attacks theism, I conclude they are atheist.
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Anyway, Steam download just finished. Lords of the Fallen, ironically enough. That sounds both more fun and more productive at this point. So... later. Maybe.
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By default, when someone attacks theism, I conclude they are atheist.
I HAVEN'T ATTACKED THEISM IN THIS DISCUSSION OR ANYWHERE ELSE ON THIS SITE YOU MORON.
You're Delusional with a capital "D".
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You were useful anyway. Thanks. Now I'll be discarding you. Whether you're planning to discard yourself, remains an open question.
Didn't this already fail in animal trials? (Score:4, Informative)
Unless there are two Oxford vaccines, this one did not exactly pass animal trials with flying colours.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gl... [telegraph.co.uk]
Also reported here but I don't have that link.
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Even a partially working vaccine is helpful if it weakens the virus to the levels of a nasty cold.
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That article doesn't say it's weakening and certainly didn't compare it to a "nasty flu". It said that the vaccine caused antibodies to be created (which were ineffective at preventing infection) and that the virus was present in the lung tissues, but that they didn't find pneumonia. Googling seems to indicate that 15% of covid patients that present with symptoms develop secondary infections to include pneumonia. They indicated that 6 monkeys were given the vaccine, so on average only 0.9 would have event
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What happened in phase 2? (Score:2)
More than one vaccine (Score:2)
The world will ultimately need more than one vaccine anyway, as demand will soar beyond what any one company could produce.
Surely this isn't a good reason for needing more than one vaccine? Whatever proves to be the best vaccine should be manufactured by all the capable companies. If someone then comes up with a better one, production should switch.
Now it might be that some vaccines turn out to be more effective than others in differing situations, and vice versa - now that's a good reason to need more than one.
Immunity (Score:2, Interesting)
We don't know yet how the immunity to that virus works. For another family of coronaviruses, the "common cold", it is very short and you can catch several in the same year.
This small article (behind a paywall) suggest it is very short. Around two months which would render a vaccine moderately useful. But their sample size is small.
https://www.medscape.com/viewa... [medscape.com]
A non paywalled press article discussing it:
https://www.fastcompany.com/90... [fastcompany.com]
Re:Who still values the WHO's opinion? (Score:5, Insightful)
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"There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit. In fact, there's some evidence to suggest the opposite in the misuse of wearing a mask properly or fitting it properly,"
WHO April 2020. Yeah, "quite well".
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And then more evidence came in...
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Nice out of context quote. For anyone interesting in what the WHO is actually saying here's the link: https://apps.who.int/iris/bits... [who.int]
The dishonest shit above left out that the WHO's comment is specific to non-medical masks, that medical masks should be prioritised for medical professionals because they do prevent the spread of disease, and they summarised that there's insufficient evidence to "recommend for or against" countries adopting policies of wearing non-medical masks.
Incidentally there's since bee
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"There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit. In fact, there's some evidence to suggest the opposite in the misuse of wearing a mask properly or fitting it properly ... Ryan also mentioned the issue of a massive global shortage of masks and other medical supplies ... Right now the people most at risk from this virus are frontline health workers, who are exposed to the virus every second of every day. The thought of them not having masks
Re:Who still values the WHO's opinion? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Even Gravity is only a 'Theory'; but don't try proving it wrong by jumping off a fucking building!
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Now the evidence is strong that the primary transmission vector is from spit particles leaving people's mouths when they speak or breath, or sing. The evidence is strong that masks have a huge impact reducing transmission.
Challenge Accepted (Score:2)
The question is how fast did they recognize their mistakes and how fast did they correct them.
That is one important question but you also have to ask whether the mistakes were reasonable ones for a competent leader to make. For example, the UK government has made some huge mistakes but generally quickly realized that and fixed them. However, the mistakes in some cases (e.g. "herd immunity") were so stupid that you have to seriously question the competence of those who made them. I am not in a position to judge the WHO but I do think they have some serious questions to answer about their early handl
Re:Challenge Accepted (Score:4, Insightful)
From New Zealand, and while we have low covid-19 case and the new cases we do have are people have come into the country and have been in isolation since, (apart from 2 I think, but the stats don't make it clear).
It is however unfair to to compare the WHO with New Zealand, The WHO doesn't have any power to make any country do anything, New Zealand is also relatively isolated with few points of entry, and a relatively small non-dense population so we had a few more weeks before we got to the level of other countries.
While I think overall the government here did a reasonable job, I would have closed down sooner (Not in hindsight that what I thought at the time) and been a bit more strict with quarantine. Also comparing New Zealand with other countries like the ones in Europe is just not fair, they have open borders and a much bigger populations that travel. If you look at the shape of the new cases curve with a lot of countries they look very similar to New Zealand. Australia for example has less deaths per million than New Zealand (but fairly close)
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Don't underestimate yourselves! I envy what the government in NZ has done. Coming from Finland, we haven't had a terrible situation, but it's not great either at 326 deaths with roughly the same population (5.5 M in Finland vs 5 M in NZ). We should have had restrictions earlier (that is what also I thought at the time, and tried to write about it to the government as well as in social media etc.).
Now that we still have infections - roughly 10 a day - most of the restrictions have been already lifted. There
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Unfortunately the vast majority of the population is sadly ill-equipped to read any sort of scientific paper, much less comprehend its contents and figure out how to act on the information. That's why fundamentalist religions have followings in the hundreds of millions and scientific organizations have followings in the tens of thousands.
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Re: Who still values the WHO's opinion? (Score:2)
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Because there are certain items on the pandemic checklist that need to be checked before it can officially be called a pandemic.
It's like people have no fucking concept of changing conditions and information.
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I do. I don't necessarily believe what they say, but I listen to it.
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Got any examples?
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Most likely. Do you think Oxford is going to give it away for free? The vaccine is going to be made by AstraZenica.
I am not aware that Oxford University has large scale vaccine manufacturing capabilities. The story is that it is being tested at Oxford University. Manufacturing is another hurdle to overcome if the vaccine passes trials. I imagine with the urgency that multiple companies will manufacture the vaccine with multiple governments ensuring that it will be low cost if not free for their citizens.
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Manufacturing is another hurdle to overcome if the vaccine passes trials.
I was just replying to this bit really. In that it's (a) already been addressed and (b) isn't happening after the trials have ended. Obviously (b) is unusual but in this case required.
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The standard practice for new drugs/immunizations is the universities do the work, paid for by government, and a private drug company swoops in at the last moment and takes the finished product and makes lots of money.
Again, I am not aware of any university that has large scale vaccine manufacturing capabilities. This is not new nor part of some grand conspiracy. Also define "lots of money". Vaccines are not high profit centers unlike what people believe. As such drug companies make much more money on drugs that people have to take routinely as opposed to vaccines they may have to get a few times per lifetime.
Re:Lots of presumptions (Score:5, Informative)
Then there is the fact that glysophate is in 5 of the most common vaccines used today, the primary toxin in Roundup
Citation needed.
. It is presumed to be there because of the use of GMOs in its ingredients.
Citation needed.
Perhaps the biggest problem is the blanket legal immunity we gave vaccine producers in the 80s in the USA. Why should they care about safety when we can't sue them for the harm their drugs do?
Dude, you should do one iota of research [hrsa.gov]: "The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program is a no-fault alternative to the traditional legal system for resolving vaccine injury petitions. It was created in the 1980s, after lawsuits against vaccine companies and health care providers threatened to cause vaccine shortages and reduce U.S. vaccination rates, which could have caused a resurgence of vaccine preventable diseases. Any individual, of any age, who received a covered vaccine and believes he or she was injured as a result, can file a petition. Parents, legal guardians and legal representatives can file on behalf of children, disabled adults, and individuals who are deceased."
The program was created so you don't have to sue. This process was set up just for vaccine claims.
https://www.disabledveterans.o... [disabledveterans.org]
That website [disabledveterans.org] appears to be one person. It has no official or unofficial ties to veterans or veteran groups other than the founder is a veteran.
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I clicked on the link and the logic they use is hilarious.
Somebody posted the the list of ingredients for vaccines on Facebook. And I thought a lot of these ingredients are probably GMO. And if they're GMO, 80% of GMO's are engineered to withstand glysophate, so they're probably going to have glysophate in these ingredients.
But to give them the benefit of the doubt, let's say they really did perform a study on it, that says nothing about whether the amounts they claim to exist are actually harmful to those injected. 2 parts per billion is not much when you're talking about a one-time 1-2 ml injection.
Re:Lots of presumptions (Score:5, Informative)
An example of things gone wrong is our current flu vaccine, which increases the probability of getting COVID by 36%.
There is no evidence that the flu vaccine increases probability of getting Covid-19.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020... [factcheck.org]
Of note:
The argument is being pushed in a post by Children’s Health Defense — an organization founded by Robert F. Kennedy Jr., known for his vaccine skepticism
[snip]
The central study cited by the Children’s Health Defense is a 2019 Armed Forces Health Surveillance Branch study that probed the theory that “influenza vaccination may increase the risk of other respiratory viruses” — a concept known as “virus interference.”
[snip]
The erroneous claim that the study shows a heightened risk for COVID-19 for those vaccinated for the flu hinges on the study’s suggestion that vaccinated individuals appeared more likely to get “coronavirus.”
But the study looked at four types of seasonal coronaviruses that cause common colds, not SARS-CoV-2.
[snip]
In fact, the AFHSB study concluded that its “overall results showed little to no evidence supporting the association of virus interference and influenza vaccination.”
Get your flu shots.
Re:Lots of presumptions (Score:5, Informative)
This is some of the arguments used by anti-vaxxers, and as ususal there are elements of truth and plenty of totally unjustifiable inferences.
There is no evidence that vaccines cause lupus. There is some evidence that if you have lupus, vaccination with live attenuated virus vaccines might cause a flare-up. But the Oxford vaccine is an *inactivated* virus vaccine.
Vaccines cause both an antigen specific response and a generalized, non-specific immune response. Some scientists believe that in very rare cases the non-specific response may lead to the release of sequestered self-antigens and, in genetically susceptible individuals, proceed to Guillain–Barré syndrome, a serious autoimmune disease.
HOWEVER -- the responses that vaccines cause are not exotic; they're happening every day as your immune system responds to novel antigens. What's more you have to weigh the risk of getting the infection the vaccine protects against, which would provoke the very same immune response.
So the bottom line is that developing a serious autoimmune disease in response to vaccination is not a significant concern for most people. If you have autoimmune disease in your medical or family history you want to consult with a rheumatologist or other specialist doctor about the relative risks of vaccinating or not.
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One thing can kill people is a cytokine storm, an over-reaction of the immune system. In fact, a good portion of COVID deaths include a cytokine storm.
It seems like the cytokine storm isn't what kills people. The idea behind hydroxychloroquine was to suppress the cytokine storm, and that didn't seem to have any effect.
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Re:Still believing China eh? (Score:5, Informative)
A Chinese biotech firm has reported encouraging results in early-stage clinical trials
Translation: They are ready to clone the Oxford vaccine if it works.
It's not unwise to be skeptical about China, but, in this case, no. The timing doesn't work; the Oxford trials started in April; when Sinovac Biotech vaccine was already entering phase-I trials. (They are also different approaches; the Oxford approach is based on chimpanzee adenovirus vaccine vector (ChAdOx1); the Chinese approach is based on the COVID10.)
Here's a summary of the 113 vaccine development efforts ongoing: https://abcnews.go.com/Health/... [go.com]
Re: Still believing China eh? (Score:5, Interesting)
I am confident that the CanSino vaccine will work in many people especially those who havenâ(TM)t had adenovirus infection before, but I personally would not take the it. It uses an adenoviral vector, Ad5, which means that it may be possible to develop some immunity to that adenovirus. If the body encounters Ad5 after taking this vaccine it might try to destroy it. Youâ(TM)re thinking âoewho cares, its just an adenovirus capsid LOL, LOL!â? Well Ad5 is currently one of our top in vivo transfection vehicles. Not my favorite, there are better options in my opinion â" in fact I am working on some, but itâ(TM)s decent. Anyway my point is that if a person needed to get some other treatment or Ad5 based vaccine in the near future that may be more important than this vaccine they might not get maximum benefit. So me personally not being at risk of serious COVID-19 I would be cautious with taking it.. not unless they produce some data showing little to no immunity to Ad5 vectors. Flipside is that the chance of needing another Ad5 vaccine is low.
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I've never been clear on why you think 1/4 of Earth's population is unable to innovate on their own. Makes no sense to me.
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"Racist" is the word you're looking for.
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Race aside, Chinese culture has a different set of base ethical beliefs that makes it hard for westerners to trust them.
I've personally caught employees in a Chinese subsidiary of the company I was working for flat out lying about having done their work.
It was software testing, and they said the package passed all tests; but due to chinese characters breaking the build process scripts it was Intel x86 binaries inside of a DEC Alpha installation package. So it was impossible for them to have installed AND ru
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I will not allow my self or my family to be injected with anything related to the China created biological weapon called covid-19.
Thank you for autodarwinating. The post-Covid world will belong to the people who get vaccinated.