Trust In Scientists Grows As Fake Coronavirus News Rises, UK Poll Finds (theguardian.com) 123
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: Public trust in the work of scientists and health experts has grown during the coronavirus pandemic, amid a surge in misinformation about the virus, a poll has found. The opinion poll by the Open Knowledge Foundation, an open data campaign group, found 64% of voters were now more likely to listen to expert advice from scientists and researchers, with only 5% saying they were less likely to do so. The Survation poll also found 51% of the population had seen fake news about the coronavirus, including discredited claims that Covid-19 was linked to 5G mobile phone masts, on social media sites such as Facebook, Twitter or Instagram.
A majority of voters, 59%, also trusted the government to make the right decisions about using confidential data to decide when to lift the lockdown and change social distancing rules. However, 35% of voters said they did not trust the government, with only 6% unsure. The public also wanted much greater access to scientific data, and disliked restrictions on their right to get information. Survation found that 67% of voters believe that all research findings in the search for a Covid-19 vaccine should be made freely available. In addition, 97% of the 1,006 voters polled said government and health bodies should release non-confidential data used by ministers and the NHS to inform their policies, and 95% said that data should always be openly available, on principle.
A majority of voters, 59%, also trusted the government to make the right decisions about using confidential data to decide when to lift the lockdown and change social distancing rules. However, 35% of voters said they did not trust the government, with only 6% unsure. The public also wanted much greater access to scientific data, and disliked restrictions on their right to get information. Survation found that 67% of voters believe that all research findings in the search for a Covid-19 vaccine should be made freely available. In addition, 97% of the 1,006 voters polled said government and health bodies should release non-confidential data used by ministers and the NHS to inform their policies, and 95% said that data should always be openly available, on principle.
Of course (Score:3, Insightful)
Surprise, surprise, covid-19 might make them sick whereas climate change is only bad for other people (like their grandchildren). Gee I wonder why they might care what scientists say about one and not the other.
Re: Pot calling the kettle black? (Score:3)
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Yeah, but 4chan is just a bunch of trolls trolling each other. Here they actually get a response from people who aren't unmitigated assholes.
Sometimes... (Score:2)
Only sometimes.
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I am loving all the 'It's about the SCIENCE' Mantra I have been seeing lately.
It's drowned out the gender benders trying to get universities to align with their worldview instead allowing science to be the determining basis for Sex / Gender.
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Some people need to realize the "scientists" have changed data, for example the data in the 1930s so they don't appear to hot. It breaks the scientific model that co2 causes warming. It doesn't, it's a symptom as there is more life. That's the history over millions of years, yet the left keeps lying to people so they can separate them from their money. Somehow paying leftists very large sums of money makes it better?
https://realclimatescience.com... [realclimatescience.com]
Verifiable science should be trusted. (Score:4, Insightful)
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They can do both.
Re: Verifiable science should be trusted. (Score:3)
Re: Verifiable science should be trusted. (Score:4, Insightful)
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Do you trust multinational corporations more or less than government?
There's a difference?
Re: Verifiable science should be trusted. (Score:2)
With government you don't have to pay $ to pretend your vote counts.
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Every year, I pay more money to my government (well, at least the big federal one) than I do to any other organization.
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In capitalism the corporations buy out the government so you're run by one unified bunch of crazy assholes. In communism it is completely different. The government takes over the corporations so you're run by one unified bunch of crazy assholes.
Re: Verifiable science should be trusted. (Score:1)
First finally stated as the "iron rule of oligarchy" a 109 years ago by Robert Michels
Re: Verifiable science should be trusted. (Score:4, Insightful)
The secret is to keep the crazy assholes fighting each other. That was a MAJOR concern of the "Founding Fathers" when they wrote the US Constitution. The slow destruction of that document has allowed them to slowly start cooperating again.
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It's much of the government that I don't trust. Protection of the elderly should be what their primary focus is, not threatening to arrest anyone without a face mask on, while some politicians are taking vacations. I'm looking at you Governor Pritzker of Illinois. "Rules for thee, but not for me" is unacceptable.
The elderly get sick because they are exposed to people with the virus. If those people wore masks, or more importantly, the people who met those people and infected them then probably the wouldn't have the virus in the first place. Surely this is a great place for the 2nd amendment? If a person isn't wearing a mask within, say, five metres of you, don't you have a case for self defence?
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That’s quite ludicrous unless there are all kinds of serious extenuating circumstances. Otherwise you’re making the argument that any situation that makes you at least as fearful for your personal safety as someone without a mask coming within five feet of you is also a valid argument for using lethal force.
I said five metres / fifteen feet; five feet is already a breach of the law and probably too close for a safe shot. You want to have reacted well before someone gets that close, e.g. if they lunge at you they might get your weapon and use it against you. If someone is a threat to you, you have to start shooting before they get that close. I don't think it's my job to make this case though. I think that the right to defend yourself against people you feel may be a threat is a fundamental part of the stan [wikipedia.org]
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I thought republicans were supposed to be the party that was tough on crime? They're as soft as liberals now.
#coronacowards
#dontpostdrunk
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Except the elderly are not the only ones at risk. There is evidence of inflammatory issues even in children.
Put the face mask on. Quit being selfish.
Re: Verifiable science should be trusted. (Score:1)
It takes a supreme level of it easy to penetrate the noise of slashdot. I find it hard to remember anyone's usernames. But the Reverend has already impressed me and passed coronavirus discussions as a completely insane person and possibly just a troll.
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Viruses don't care about your rights.
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They also don't care about that silly, poorly fitted mask you're wearing without your nose covered.
Re: Verifiable science should be trusted. (Score:1)
"Cowardly, vicious totalitarian Covidiots don't care about your rights."
FTFY
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"Ignorant Rambo-wannabes don't care about your life."
FTFY.
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I guess its good that science doesn't care about your twisted interpretation of rights.
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You mean by, I don't know, NOT sending the people sick with the Chinese flu to rest homes like Cuomo did in New York?
Unchanged... for me (Score:4, Insightful)
Professionals are always worth listening too, regardless of whether you think they are right or wrong about something. There is usually some insight gained about something either way. Best to seek the advice of more than just 1 professional, they have the same political hangups that everyone else has because being a professional does not suddenly stop you from being human.
"A majority of voters, 59%, also trusted the government to make the right decisions about using confidential data to decide when to lift the lockdown and change social distancing rules."
And this is why we cannot have nice things. Trusting the entity that helped make sure that Covid-19 was a problem for everyone. Just about every Nation fucked this up... because they have an irrational fear that minor damage to their economies cannot be tolerated so risk massive damage instead.
There is only ONE outcome when you decide to trust governments with this information. Abuse... that has been the only outcome ever. Government is filled with people that are literally your next door neighbors... and do you trust them with your privacy? Why do you think that letting entities that either use the lowest bidder or cronyism to get things done is an objective arbiter or protective of your privacy?
I should change my name to "Government SirAstral" so that people will automagically trust me with their private information now. It seems to work wonders for lying politicians... especially in times of crisis.
I guess that old saying... those that would give up essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety... holds so very true. Like lambs to the slaughter. Just like Americans after 9/11... completely giving up their rights like little chichenshits at the drop of a hat.
Re: Unchanged... for me (Score:5, Insightful)
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... make them slightly restricted on how many terabytes their porn collection needs to be...
That is a constitutional issue, specifically cruel and unusual punishment.
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That would be an ecumenical matter
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So let me get this straight...
You created government to keep a leash on big business and then complain that the leash has been handed over to big business and still want to keep that government? I don't understand what your issue is here... The outcome you wanted has happened.
If you send someone else to do the work you want done, then you get the product of their output NOT yours. It is just that simple. If you want to keep big business out of your government then do not invite them in by sending politic
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Unfortunately politics have been a part of human society ever since Ogg was convinced his women didn't have to gather firewood because he had the larger club.
Re:Unchanged... for me (Score:4, Interesting)
The level of spying in the UK is already grotesque, it's police state. About a law (Investigatory Powers Bill) that has passed:
no warrant required.
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Perhaps the problem isn't government but YOUR government. Is it not possible you are projecting the issues of your own nation onto the other 200 countries of the world, of which you have very limited knowledge?
For example, do you know how well New Zealand coped with Covid? Or Denmark? Belize, Ireland, Iraq, Kurdistan, Tonga? Do you know how well their governments performed on any issues at all?
And your 'saying' is just that - a saying. Its not a flaming pillar of truth - its an opinion.
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Trusting the entity that helped make sure that Covid-19 was a problem for everyone. Just about every Nation fucked this up... because they have an irrational fear that minor damage to their economies cannot be tolerated so risk massive damage instead.
Let me get this straight. Government is bad, so we shouldn't trust them, and the reason they are bad is because they with will not or can not destroy their own economies at the first loud noise.
The fact that President Trump did not have the power to lock down society and force everyone inside in early February is not a bug. It is a feature.
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Yea, its not like every nation in the world didn't fuck this up either, but it's always Trumps fault right? Even if everyone else fucks up just like Trump and didn't take this seriously? I don't like Trump but you fucking morons have nothing better to do than start and end your day with "Trump this" or "Trump that". The levels of your psychosis with this moron is just too damn high!
Trump is a big mouth and because of that he gets extra attention like an attention whore, and just like an "Attention John"
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Yea, its not like every nation in the world didn't fuck this up either, but it's always Trumps fault right?
One certainly does not unmake the other.
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That is not the problem here. The hyper-focus on just one villain when several exist is. I can understand people wanting just the 1 throat to choke, but that is often not possible or realistic.
People say they do not want kings yet they constantly seek the installation of a single all powerful person to hold responsible for everything that goes wrong and praise when everything goes right. The idea that a single person could possibly have that much power and get things done right is a serious problem and o
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Both the British and US constitutions established responsible governments (in other words, governments accountable to the voters), and created divisions of power between the executive, legislative and judicial branches. The British system is a bit muddier, because the executive is formed out of the legislative branch, while in the US system the executive is independently selected. In either case, if you have a problem with your elected representative simply toeing the party line, and acting like a puppet fo
Re: In the UK maybe ... (Score:3)
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If I invited you to slap me in the face everyday, it would be fair to tell me to stop complaining.
When people create their governments and then refuse to get rid of their corrupt elements they are literally asking to be slapped in the face. Where do you think the politicians got that dagger in your back from? They got it from you! You gave it to them to stab problem with... but you are the one that got stabbed. Think about that... you gave them power to deal with problems and you are the one getting har
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"Yea, its not like every nation in the world didn't fuck this up either, but it's always Trumps fault right?"
Don't defend Trump, blame China.
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Yeah, since China managed to deal with the pandemic fairly efficiently it's all their fault that the US did the exact opposite. They should have fucked up their response completely so that we could have reacted the right way!
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China, or the CCP specifically, is still jailing whistleblowers. How the hell would you know if they handled ANYTHING "efficiently"?
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Satellite observations show that their industrial output and vehicular traffic is pretty much back to normal. It's not like they can hide that.
Re:In the UK maybe ... (Score:5, Insightful)
So let's get this straight ...
Trump stops travel from China (except for US citizens, green card holders and their wives, because we all know viruses look at passports) at beginning of February, but continues to allow travel for a full MONTH from corona-stricken Italy and Iran (which at that point are fastest growing hotspots in the world). Travellers from these countries tweet in amazement as they are allowed into the US without any testing or questions whatsoever. ... and YOUR president, pats himself on the back for the half-assed Chinese travel ban.
Tell me these arn't the actions of an utter moron.
We could also discuss testing, lack of any national plan, premature "mission accomplished", and so forth, but what's the point, eh? By letting those Italian and Iranian cases to flood in for a full month he completely fucked the USA, thereby rendering his follow-up fuck-ups mostly irrelevant.
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Hold up... I don't see Trump as anything other than a Fuck Up. But that does not mean he is the primary fuck up either.
The Primary Fuck-Up here is this order.
WHO, CDC and those like it, Leaders of the World (includes Trump), however, the problem that people like to only pick on the Moron Trump IS a problem and shows a disgusting lack of depth and insight into the problem there.
You want to Jail Trump... good... but if it's ONLY Trump... then bad. Trump needs to be on Trial right there along with everyone e
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My Federal government fucked up at the beginning but then got on the right course rather then continuing to fuck up whereas Trump seems to consistently keep fucking up and then instead of taking responsibility for his fuckups, does the blame game like a little kid.
Re:In the UK maybe ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's be honest. This virus was in the wild at least some time in December. It's almost certain flights outbound from China were carrying the virus by that point, and almost certainly by January. By the time anyone even thought there was a novel communicable pathogen causing an utter respiratory infection, it was probably already in several other countries. Closing the borders, whether the rather useless way that Trump (and to be fair, several other leaders) did was too late, and even if everyone had locked down their borders in January, that would have at best slowed down the virus.
The real failure here is that many governments, in particular in the wealthiest nations in the world, were completely unprepared. PPE stockpiles had been allowed to dwindle, any plans made after SARS and MERS had either had had funding cut or had been outright defunded. Trump gets special attention because, well, he demands it. His need for airtime means he makes himself the biggest spectacle, the biggest example of bureaucratic and political failure, but he's hardly alone. Even where I am, in Canada, the Federal government seemed in some sort of catatonic state over the issue, and Provinces were left to their own devices for a few weeks. To be sure, Trudeau responded better, when he responded, but even in early March, as it became clearer that this was the real deal, no one in leadership positions could be bothered to do more than some modest steps, and it wasn't until people in nursing homes started dropping like flies, and more importantly, Trudeau's wife caught the virus, then all of sudden, it's a big deal.
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So, who in our leadership should we praise instead? The Democrats who were claiming that he was manufacturing a crisis when he did limit travel? Or the Democrats who were calling people out to celebrate the Chinese New Years?
C'mon. You apparently know someone with a crystal ball that knew how ridiculous this situation would become. Why weren't they speaking up back in January.
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The Dems are normally accused of being all for big government, big spending, socialist policies, nationalized health, but now you're suggesting that if they'd been in power there'd have been none of these ... no big brother telling you you can't travel, no trillions of dollars thrown at the problem, no attempt at universal testing access, no prioritizing workers over businesses ...
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Science isn't about proving the truth. As the old saying goes, proof is for liquor and mathematics. Science comes up with the best explanation based on the data at hand. Consensus comes when enough scientists tend to view a theory as being backed by the data. Just because virtually every physicist out there accepts General Relativity as a significant explanation for gravity and at least some of what we see in the large scale structure of the Universe means that the theory has passed a lot of tests, has expl
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You must be kidding?
There is a reason we have the Scientific Method, it is specifically there to test everything out to a True/False state.
"Really, you're just advocating epistemological nihilism. My hunch is because a bunch of scientists in a field of study are providing answers you don't want to here, but really, that's a reflection on you, not them. Adults deal with reality, they don't deny it."
No... you are just about troglodyting a bunch of words together to sound smarter than you actually are.
Remember
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As a biologist once explained to me, the best science can ever provide is provisional truth. The proviso is that if an observation is made that cannot be explained by the theory, then clearly the theory is incomplete. But even where theories are incomplete, they frequently still have utility. We don't know everything about replication, but we know enough to build models of how quickly a virus could spread. Models will always be noisy, and particularly where people are involved, that creates a considerable a
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Yea, its not like every nation in the world didn't fuck this up either
Not every nation in the world fucked the response to COVID up. It seems to be about half-n-half at the moment. My birth-country didn't fuck it up. The country I currently live in did fuck it up, incredibly badly.
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Half seems pretty generous for not fucking it up.
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Italy, Spain and France are much worse off than the US. The US is running somewhere in the middle of the pack on a per-capita death rate. If you remove the Democrat run city of New York, where the Democrat Cumo decided to sent Covid patients to nursing homes, the US is a leader. In either case, we have a federated government. The President isn't a king.
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"experts like Fauci, Birx and Bill Gates"
Bill Gates is a medical expert?
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As far as viruses and epidemics, I'd say yes, given that he's a super-smart guy who's spent most of his time studying these subjects for years now ... Gave a TED talk a few years ago warning how unprepared the US was for what we are now in the middle of.
Re: In the UK maybe ... (Score:1, Flamebait)
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And now he wants to sell vaccines, which has indemnities laws protecting them.
Check The Org. Behind The Poll (Score:1)
Do a bit of a dive into the Open Knowledge Foundation, it's reports, it's founders, funders, etc. For instance, they are in favor of a blanket tax on all digital services across the EU and is in favor of stricter controls on "misinformation" posted to social media.
This poll should be taken with a generous dose of skepticism.
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It's a survation poll, a reputable polling company. The questions asked, and the answers, are at https://okfn.org/about/press/r... [okfn.org] and the linked sheet
The only thing OKF had to do with it was setting the questions. Now that in itself can be very powerful (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZZJXw4MTA), but here they didn't get the answers I think they wanted so if they were trying to rig the poll, they didn't do a very good job
Difficult to deflect watching people die. (Score:3)
Currently with Covid-19 two people who I work with had died. One was actually young and rather healthy. With Flu Strains I think I know of one person who had died from it over my life.
Previously people had the luxury of disbelieving in science when it doesn't fit into their world view or political stance. Eg the Left tend to not believe science saying something is safe, while the Right has a problem believing that something is dangerous. For the most the effect is isn't wide reaching, and people who do get hurt from it, are often from easily controllable methods. Or connected by a long range of side effects.
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It's the reason why the government keeps repeating the phrase "following the science". They aren't of course, but if they can convince people that they are then all these preventable deaths are not their fault.
Re: Difficult to deflect watching people die. (Score:2, Troll)
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What do you think they're doing? Were not the lockdowns for weeks based on actual statistical information enough for you?
There's science and then there's life.
Science proves there's no crime if we live under martial law. Hell, you don't even need science for that - just look at North Korea where crime is practically non-existent.
Science proves that if we just go back to an agrarian society then we'll save the world from climate change. You've seen just as many stories about "the earth healing itself" as
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Yeah, Arizona is reopening and told their researchers to stop modeling, because they are going to use FEMA's model. https://www.azcentral.com/stor... [azcentral.com] I suppose there is a chance that FEMA is getting it right where every other Federal model has been a joke (eg: using the Excel trend function https://twitter.com/NateSilver... [twitter.com]).
But I think many Republican governers are going to double down on "death is inevitable, don't blame us."
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Democrat governors are doing the same. Who is opening Colorado?
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I've also noticed a lot of friends, that usually let bullshit slide standing standing up to and calling out bollocks and conspiracy theories, stuff like 5G and drinking disinfectant.
Don't trust scientists, trust the science (Score:5, Informative)
This is precisely why the scientific method was created. So that people should no longer have to trust, blindly or reluctantly, someone else, who may be biased or have an agenda, to acquire knowledge. Put everything out there: Show me your data, how you acquired it; tell me what your hypothesis is; explain to me in detail your methodology; show me your results and your conclusion; give me everything I need to duplicate and verify your experiment.
Science was open-source long before the term was ever coined. People keep praysing the virtues of open-source, yet 99.9% of open-source software users will never compile from source, or even summarily audit the code. But it doesn't matter, because they can if they choose to. It is trust, but it's not blind trust.
The same goes for science. Even if 99.9% of the population will not or cannot double-check scientfic publications, eventually, bullshit science will be called out.
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"Don't trust scientists, trust science" is exactly the argument I get from my anti-vaxxer relative. It sounds like a wise position, but it's not because you can't actually ask science it's position on anything. What you have to do is choose a position by selecting and evaluating scientific evidence yourself.
So it's never "science versus scientists", it's always your interpretation of scientific evidence and theirs. My anti-vaxxer relative likes to say , "What about *our* science?". Well, most of your scie
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I wouldn't even call it "skepticism"; it's faith in alternative authorities.
People who are science skeptics usually are quite definite in their alternative beliefs; they certainly have policy preferences that appear to be shaped by certainty.
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... bullshit science will be called out.
But it's not. Science today isn't science. It's very political I saw it in the 1980s, it's MUCH worse today. Try to do a study on why CO2 has nothing to do with man made global warming. They know it's a symptom and not the cause, yet they get all kinds of money saying co2 is causing it. They've even gone back and tried to change historical data from the 1930s. That decade alone proves it's not CO2. Can't be. That was THE hotest decade in the 1900s and there was a great deal less CO2 around. So it's busted.
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Science! (Score:2)
Have they tried to see if the "scientists" they have more confidence in are the imagined scientists behind all the misinformation?
Finally, a comeback (Score:2)
for "There are no atheists in foxholes."
Big Science is in the pocket of Big Media (Score:2)
I do my own research. But I'm too busy to dedicate 8 years in a University to my research, so I cherry-pick papers in obscure journals with summaries that I [mis]understand. The best are the papers that have the findings right in the title, it makes it easier to search and I can avoid unnecessary reading.
Like Neil Ferguson (Score:1)
Typical (Score:2)
End in sight for Dum-Dum pandemic? (Score:2)
Accessability (Score:2)
I've made an extra effort to share accessible and engaging medical and science content, vlogs on COVID-19 by Dr Hope (an UK NHS Doctor), Dr Mike and Mama Doctor Jones (US Doctors) and I've noticed and reshared others doing the same.
I've noticed the same from the UK mainstream News, the BBC, ITV and Channel 4 have featured a lot of engaging experts, plenty of doctors and scientists.
In the UK pretty much everybody loves the NHS, yes even conservatives, and the news and chat shows TV have had a of different NH
Not for me (Score:2)
My faith in academia has been in freefall due to things that come out of the social sciences but I'm also finding a lot of bad things coming out of scientific discipline I might have hoped was more rigid.
I've read so many bad papers now in biology, epidemology, virology, etc that I can't take scientists seriously at all. When I talk to a scientist it's like I'm the only br