UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson Taken To Intensive Care For Coronavirus Treatment (bloomberg.com) 405
Boris Johnson has been taken into the hospital intensive care unit for treatment for coronavirus after his condition worsened, his office said. The Guardian reports: The British prime minister was admitted to St Thomas's Hospital in London on Sunday night because his virus symptoms had not cleared up and he became more seriously ill on Monday afternoon, a government spokesperson said in an email. "Over the course of this afternoon, the condition of the prime minister has worsened and, on the advice of his medical team, he has been moved to the intensive care unit at the hospital," according to the statement. Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab will stand in for Johnson running the country, "where necessary." Mr. Johnson was confirmed to have coronavirus last Thursday, becoming the first Western leader known to have contracted the disease. On Sunday evening, Johnson was admitted to the hospital as a "precautionary step," according to his Downing Street Office.
So, which bit is fake news (Score:2, Offtopic)
This was reported by the Russians overnight
Only a couple of hours ago Raab stood in front of the cameras and claimed it is a Russian disinformation operation.
So, who is disinforming and who is informing in this case. Are the Russians disinforming or it is Raab?
I tried to disentangle which is the original source of the story, but everyone points a finger at the other. Russians mention AFP. AFP mentions Russians. UK press mentions all of them in a disinformation context.
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Depends on when it was said, If it wa said yesterday, it was fake even though it is true today. He was only moved to intensive care a few hours ago. So the Russian report if given last night was fake if they had claimed it already happened.
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Depends on when it was said, If it wa said yesterday, it was fake even though it is true today. He was only moved to intensive care a few hours ago. So the Russian report if given last night was fake if they had claimed it already happened.
Or they are drip feeding us the bad news.
Re:So, which bit is fake news (Score:4, Insightful)
When they moved him to the hospital for observation for his cough, it was obvious he was in serious trouble. They lied about it and he ended up in the ICU. For Coronavirus, if you make it to the ICU, the odds are not in your favor.
They can't lie about his death, but up to then, expect lies on both sides.
Re:So, which bit is fake news (Score:5, Funny)
Depends on when it was said, If it wa said yesterday, it was fake even though it is true today. He was only moved to intensive care a few hours ago. So the Russian report if given last night was fake if they had claimed it already happened.
Yeah I think it was yesterday. Either it was just a coincidence, or they actually had a source and the government delayed announcing this.
In any case, I salute Boris for doing his part in building herd immunity in the UK. Good for him.
Re:So, which bit is fake news (Score:4, Funny)
Maybe Russia finally got their clairvoyance unit working properly. The CIA was always afraid that was going to happen.
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He deserves it (Score:5, Insightful)
https://www.independent.co.uk/... [independent.co.uk]
Why can't we have world leaders who believe in science?
Re:He deserves it (Score:5, Insightful)
Because science doesn't vote.
No one deserves it (Score:2)
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Because science doesn't vote.
Correction: because science doesn't participate in PACs.
Re:He deserves it (Score:5, Funny)
Because science doesn't vote.
But it's best friend Reality might be voting now.
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Angela Merkel is a scientist. Coincidentally Germany has a very low number of deaths for the number of people infected.
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As a quantum chemist, I am highly skeptical of whoever has been trained in my field. That said, the reason why Germany has so few deaths is unrelated to her skills or their health system. Better heath systems (France, Italy) show higher numbers in line with the average death rate for covid. IMHO there's something really wrong in how they count.
Re:He deserves it (Score:5, Informative)
You think that Italy has a better health system than Germany? Seriously? That is so far removed from reality, it is staggering.
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It has not. The people working in the health system are not the reason for that, the reason is that the Italian health system has been starved to death for a long time now.
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The north is one of the richest part of Europe.
Having someone rich live in a fancy house does not define a country. Need I remind you of the PIIGS, making up some of the heaviest in debt and economically fucked up countries in Europe? In case you're missing the point, one of the "I"s stands for Italy.
They aren't rich in the slightest. The country is a financial shitshow, and their medical system can only be said to be "surprisingly good" compared to the state of Italy on the whole.
Indeed. They have excellent people at the front-lines of the medical system in Italy, or this whole mess would be a lot worse there. But the conditions these people have been laboring under the for a while now are pretty bad and they are too few in the first place.
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Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
If you "belive" in science, you already lost. (Score:2, Insightful)
The whole point of science, is that you don't have to believe.
You can verify for yourself.
It is not anyone's enemy, and does not even oppose concepts like a "God".
(Tangent apropos "God": All it says, is: If for your entire existence, you can never tell the difference, what is the use of it?
E.g. You cannot tell if the bible stories are based on a God, of the devil just wrote lies to make you behave exactly the wrong way, and added "God said it", or something entirely different is true.
Your chances of getting
Re: If you "belive" in science, you already lost. (Score:2)
I like your point about science not being something where people need to believe, and that everything can be verified by oneself.
I agree, but i also oberve people who believe the opposite. They believe science isnt real (which is weird to me)
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The whole point of science, is that you don't have to believe.
You can verify for yourself.
It is not anyone's enemy,
Actually, it is the very worst enemy of those that prefer their beliefs to actual reality. While some scientists can be corrupted, Science itself cannot. Hence it must be disregarded, ridiculed and suppressed. Of course, as soon as there is a real problem, that demented stance will magnify the damage done tremendously.
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Is it your faith that Science cannot be corrupted?
Your question shows a fundamental lack of understanding.
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"The whole point of science, is that you don't have to believe.
You can verify for yourself."
Oh? So, you'll be wanting to verify quantum mechanics on your own? How about vaccines for Sars-CoV-2? Will you be testing those too?
The basic problem is this post-modern affliction of somehow thinking scientists are in some sort of dodge or grand conspiracy. It's stupid and only allows people the righteous indignation to believe whatever the hell they want because no expert is going to tell them what to do.
Re:If you "belive" in science, you already lost. (Score:4, Informative)
While you're mostly right, science does sometimes come down to believe. For example, the scientific consensus is that the Sun shines by nuclear fusion and there is all kinds of science behind that, even hydrogen bombs have experimentally shown that fusion is real. How do I verify that myself? Really, I'm just left to believe that the science works, hydrogen bombs are real etc.
There's a lot of science like this, where the required equipment is not available to the average person and we're left trusting and believing the consensus.
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Because ... they don't want to have to shake hands with the ones who don't during a pandemic?
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I don't know if Johnson deserves it or not (Score:3)
Re: I don't know if Johnson deserves it or not (Score:3)
But there is some defense against it in having funded health systems
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the 1000's of additional victims that his delays in acting will have caused
What delays in acting?
He's taken prompt and timely action every fucking time it's been required.
Why the fuck are so many idiotic fuckwits - including you - so utterly fucking incapable of understanding that you can't just shut a country down indefinitely, and the sooner you shut it down, the more likely you are to have a complete fucking failure of law and order.
Even Chief fucking Medical Officers and Health Ministers can't obey the fucking rules, you expect an entire population to just accept stringent res
Re:He deserves it (Score:5, Interesting)
Why can't we have world leaders who believe in science?
His entire political platform over the past several years has been "People are sick of experts". He's not wrong. People have been showing increased aptitude in their own stupidity. They aren't racing to the bottom as much as they are electing their way down.
You want leaders who believe in science, I present a world leader who is a trained and practiced chemical engineer: Xi Jinping, his offsider Li Yuanchao has a masters in mathematics, his premier Li Keqiang has a doctorate of economics.
Science alone doesn't make desirable leaders who are good at handling pandemics.
Re:He deserves it (Score:5, Insightful)
Why can't we have world leaders who believe in science?
His entire political platform over the past several years has been "People are sick of experts". He's not wrong.
I don't think people are unwilling to accept science as much as many are unwilling to accept other viewpoints. Often science deniers love science when they think it supports their current thinking. Science is the scapegoat, but it's really masking the real issue of close-mindedness.
Part of the problem is our democratic system that elevates confident people. Sometimes those people are overconfident and believe that they are always right, so there is no need to listen to different viewpoints.
Re:He deserves it (Score:5, Insightful)
Why can't we have world leaders who believe in science?
His entire political platform over the past several years has been "People are sick of experts". He's not wrong. People have been showing increased aptitude in their own stupidity. They aren't racing to the bottom as much as they are electing their way down.
If a society is sick of experts, it has indeed reached a stage where things can and will only get worse. Ignoring reality is the end for a technology-based society that will increasingly need this technology to survive in the first place. You can vote yourself bread and games and blissful ignorance for a while. But the price that will come due at some point is staggering.
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It is a bit like system administration: If IT works very nicely, some morons fire system administrators, because they are "not needed", obviously, as everything is working nicely. That the sysadmins are the reason things are working nicely is too complicated for many people.
And, of course, sysadmins, like other experts sometimes tell you that something is a really bad idea and should not be done, because they can see a lot more of what is likely to happen than other people. Hence they often get neutralized,
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Biden, Sanders, Trump, Pence are all in high risk (Score:5, Funny)
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But I suspect the odds of both of them kicking the bucket are pretty slim, and the odds of them going down within minutes are even slimmer.
If there was a God in Heaven, he'd have already struck both of them down, so I'm not holding out for any divine intervention here.
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But I suspect the odds of both of them kicking the bucket are pretty slim, and the odds of them going down within minutes are even slimmer.
The probability of that event is rather low. The mortality according to most recent Chinese statistics is dependent on: People who smoke and/or have long term exposure to air pollution > 6%. People who are don't Neither one of them smoke or have smoked, neither have lung conditions, neither have diabetes and the only risk items they have are age and (maybe) blood pressure. Not even serious heart conditions (f.e. like the one which Cheney had).
Further to this, there are some curious statistics released
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The smoking link is now thought to be much weaker than first thought if it exist at all. It was a hypothesis based on higher mortality rates in males over females and the vastly different rates of smoking between males and females in China. However it has held up in other countries where the rates of smoking between males and females are much closer.
About one in six who develop complications are getting heart damage, so if you start out with a weakened heart that is not going to be good outcome.
In the UK th
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Pence a Christian? Would this be the same wombat who dithered on needle exchanges in Indiana to help stop HiV? Or the Baby Christian who decided, in the name of Jesus of course, to turn back refugees at the border...refugees from the drug scourge being funded by idiots in the U.S. and then then taken advantage of by a different class of idiots selling them guns to kill each other?
Here's how the Rapture will happen. The trumpets blare, the clouds billow and roil, Jesus float majestically down from orbit. He
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If there is anything that Trump has done successfully in his tenure as President, is it to expose the hate, irrational paranoia and insane thought processes of the so-called liberal left.
I'd say, rather, that he's created such extreme division and engendered so much hatred on both right and left that he's brought out the worst in all of them. I don't wouldn't call that "success", though.
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If Nancy becomes second in line and continues to abuse her powers to prevent a new VP being appointed then I would seriously fear for her own safety.
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Considering how political class in US is rather geriatric and in a high risk category, US leadership might end up going to Secretary of Education, Laura Roslin.
If Betsy DeVos becomes POTUS, is it too late to find a coyote to smuggle me into Mexico or Canada?
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"Considering how political class in US is rather geriatric and in a high risk category, US leadership might end up going to Secretary of Education, Laura Roslin."
You mean when they get sent to a farm upstate?
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Everyone should follow my example (i.e. my user name, not my posts).
Fail. (Score:3, Insightful)
A failure to plan is a plan for failure.
This is his own doing and frankly I have no sympathy for him.
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To be fair, both Merkel and Trump were in close proximity to a Corona carrier and could very well be sharing intensive care with him now.
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If there is one thing this crisis has shown clearly is the line between people eager to sacrifice someone else's life so can keep lights on and people who have some humanity. Careful with your attitude. Having no sympathy for BoJo the clown makes you no different than him. Again, we are talking about human lives here.
The UK is actually doing pretty well (Score:5, Interesting)
Perhaps more telling is how the different U.S. states are doing [worldometers.info]. Despite the first cases being detected at about the same time in Washington, New York, and California, California is doing remarkably well - an order of magnitude fewer cases and deaths per 1M population (New York numbers in particular are comparable to Spain and Italy; worse since they're still growing while those two countries have plateaued). What did California do differently? California immediately locked down areas where cases were detected [slashdot.org]. Suggesting that it's not planning which makes the bigger difference, but rather reacting quickly when the first cases were detected (i.e. what seemed like an apparent over-reaction at the time).
Re:The UK is actually doing pretty well (Score:5, Informative)
The figures for cases are almost entirely worthless. Germany is doing widespread testing, like South Korea, so they're finding more low-level cases. The UK is only testing hospital patients so its figures miss anyone who has mild symptoms that don't require hospitalisation. You can't compare them in any meaningful way.
Both Germany and South Korea have been aggressively contact-tracing with the information that they got from their testing program and using it to isolate those who are infected. That is reflected in their present lower death rates. Whether this is sustainable in the longer term, for as long as it takes to find and deploy a vaccine is another matter. It's possible there may be no particular benefit to "flattening the curve" more than is necessary to allow hospitals to cope if the only way out of this is for most of us to have had the disease at some point.
Rarely (Score:5, Funny)
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Does karma strike so quickly. If this doesn't prove we're living in a simulation, nothing will.
Well quite. I mean it was only a week ago that he was trying to score political points and future votes in marginal seats by stoking hatred of Londoners banging on about "super spreaders". Looks like he was actually one of those himself.
Re:Rarely (Score:5, Interesting)
If Boris sadly retires from the playing field he does at least have one last laugh up his sleeve. Dominic Raab his deputy has the charisma and brains of an empty cereal box. He was not chosen as a potential replacement for Boris, more as a symbolic Brexit fanatic with a Pavlovian loyalty to anyone with a clue. During the recent car crash of the Brexit thing he was chiefly memorable for discovering that great quantities of global imports to the UK come across the English channel from Europe - he said: “I hadn’t quite understood the full extent of this, but if you look at the UK and look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing. (and a trade barrier with Europe would seriously disrupt this)”
Seriously, get well soon Boris you mendacious so and so.
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UK's COVID-19 herd immunity plan hit a speed bump (Score:2)
Uh... Tech News? Nope. News for Nerds? Not really. (Score:2, Insightful)
Instead of talking about how (insert public figure's name here) is doing in their fight against COVID-19, how about more articles focusing on the technical and engineering aspects of dealing with the impacts? It is extremely easy to find info on public figure's health, since BBC and other news sources see fit to inform us of hour by hour changes in their condition. I don't need to see more of the same on slashdot.
How about articles on how companies are overcoming engineering, scientific, or programming chal
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The current ownership of slashdot realize that politics threads generate more comments than very technical stories.
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For years and years the biggest thread on /. was the 9/11 thread. Some stories transcend typical editorial standards. That's ok.
Re:Uh... Tech News? Nope. News for Nerds? Not real (Score:5, Interesting)
How about articles on how companies are overcoming engineering, scientific, or programming challenges in re-purposing equipment for new roles in the current pandemic?
Slashdot is a news aggregator, not a news service. There's been much moaning about how Slashdot's standards have fallen, but considering what it is, it was inevitable. Slashdot is a mirror of news reporting around the world. It's hardly Slashdot's fault that reporting in general has become a cesspool of clickbait, blatant propaganda, and least common denominator pandering.
I'm no longer willing to 100% blame the news crapfest for their output, either. When there is enough concentrated, motivated fuckwittery in the world that cell towers in the UK are being attacked, is it any wonder that news services are devolving? Now that the world population is so high, there are a lot of bottom 20%ers, enough to sustain whole networks devoted to News For Fuckwits. And pandering to fuckwits pays, or there wouldn't be so much of it.
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I think it was posted here because many Slashdotters will get in to a big fight over Brexit for no reason.
But yeah. I don't see any legitimate reason to post this article. Maybe next we should post about a celebrity getting it, and how they are sitting on a $1,000,000 couch while waiting to recover?
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No, it's because Boris is kind of the UK Trump, which will inspire somebody to post something about Trump, which will produce a looooong thread about US politics, which will sell a bunch of ad impressions.
I mean, you don't actually need a political story for that to happen, but I guess it probably helps.
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Western, country... they're both really terrible types of music.
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It isn't. But many member nations are. [wikipedia.org]
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Wait, what? Is there more to the quote than you quoted? Your response doesn't match the quote, nor does your seeming indignation.
Not disappointed (Score:3, Insightful)
Nonsense (Score:3)
You know what's funny? As of when you posted that the only really negative posts were by ACs and no one was mentioning political beliefs.
So in other words, you're clearly the kind of douche who will just make stuff up about those you disagree with to demonize them.
Herd immunity (Score:5, Insightful)
The original UK plan was to let cv-19 run its course and quickly develop herd immunity. What some of these "gut think" people didn't realize that herd immunity requires a lot of the vulnerable to be "weeded" out.
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Seems to be working reasonably well in Sweden— as long as people are responsible maybe it isn’t a bad path. Sweden encourages people over 70 to stay home at this point.
Time will tell which path is best.
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Sweden barely tests people hence they only appear doing well. Switzerland has a smaller population, but has managed to test four times as many.
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You're right, time will tell.
However, Sweden has a one of the higher normalized death rates of 72 dead per million
Re:Herd immunity (Score:5, Informative)
Boris is only 55. Despite his appearance he isn't that unfit either, e.g. he cycles regularly.
Protecting over 70s alone isn't enough, we had a 5 year old die here last week.
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Boris is only 55. Despite his appearance he isn't that unfit either, e.g. he cycles regularly.
Likely immunocompromised though. High stress and a lack of sleep does that. Now, being a PM is usually considered a low sleep, high stress job at the best of times. With the recent crisis, he's been looking a wreck.
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A lot of pe
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The original UK plan was to let cv-19 run its course and quickly develop herd immunity
No, it was not.
Then what do you call it when the UK chief scientific advisor [independent.co.uk] publicly said so?
He later told Sky News: "Communities will become immune to it and that's going to be an important part of controlling this longer term.
"About 60 per cent is the sort of figure you need to get herd immunity."
What IS the long term plan of UK govt if it was NOT herd immunity?
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Here's the UK Government plan. It was published ten fucking days before Vallance discussed the implications and benefits of herd immunity.
https://assets.publishing.serv... [service.gov.uk]
Herd immunity is a good thing. The Government plan and policy has not been a headlong rush, damn the elderly. It has been to slow and control the spread of the disease.
Seeing it was published on 3rd March, I read with interest what they planned to compare with what they did... and found it was just a very long winded document laying out how UK is going to achieve herd immunity, entirely consistent with their not-locking-down in the 2 weeks that followed.
In particular, I noted:
The phased response - what we have done so far
4.5 As there are already cases in the UK, the current emphasis is on the Contain and Research phases, but planning for Delay and Mitigation is already in train.
The Delay phase - next steps
4.42 If the disease becomes established in the UK, we will need to consider further measures to reduce the rate and extent of its spread. Based on experience with previous outbreaks, it may be that widespread exposure in the UK is inevitable; but slowing it down would still nonetheless be beneficial.
You put it in very good sounding words, but it was obvious, reading this document, that Vallance was being honest. The plan all along was, once the initial Contain failed (which it obviously did),
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This would make a great PSA as to what happens when your biological sister is also your biological mother.
Re: Herd Immunity (Score:2)
I think he was being sarcastic in the first paragraph, paraphrasing what morons are saying. The second paragraph says what he really thinks: hopefully these idiots will get serious about this sooner rather than later.
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Your post is littered with misinformation, exaggerated claims and the fallacy of broad brushing. No wonder you are so angry.
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Why, yes.
At this point it's secondary where and how it started. The problem is here, and we have to deal with it locally. Therefore blame rests squarely on local leaders when they're being stupid.
Plus, I don't see what you're so upset about. Don't the conservatives like things to be told "like it is", and advocate for "personal responsibility"? Well, the way it is, is that it reached the UK and became UK's and therefore Jonhson's problem. And Johnson had his chance to exercise his personal responsibility by
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It seems like he has succeeded at his goal, in a small personal way. Either way it will be over that much faster.
Herd immunity will have some extra victims faster, some ICU, some dead, including some of the people that decided that would be a good idea.
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Re:So, just so I understand (Score:5, Informative)
Sealing borders is nowhere near as important as tracking down and isolating the initial cases within this country, some of which would inevitably have arrived via countries that are *not* China or Muslim majority.
Trump had about two months to do that, but did nothing.
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The buck doesn't stop at any of those people.
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To be fair, it is really hard to tell when Trump is NOT being racist (he sort of has resting bigotry face). It is even harder to tell if he was actually just being racist and like a broken clock managed to to be right for once.
Re:So, just so I understand (Score:5, Insightful)
Technically the "conservative mandated" travel ban was only on Chinese people. Thousands of Americans were encouraged to return home, which they did unhindered by any kind of testing or quarantine. Unfortunately the returnees then proceeded to infect the entire country. Obviously both political parties screwed up to put it mildly. Attempting to place the blame for the six weeks of inaction in the West on the Chinese who had locked down 200 million people, published the genome of the virus and invited the WHO into the country is somewhat perplexing. The South Koreans, Japanese, Singaporeans and Taiwan have a fraction of the death rate of the rest of the world because they were paying attention. Perhaps we expected to be protected by our wealth, our Christianity, our belief in great leaders instead of science, our preference for letting a few people make a shit load of money rather than taxing them and spending the money on stupid things like pandemic defense or vaccine research? Whatever, the entire western world has fucked up and now thinks it would be convenient to blame it on the Chinese. Lie to yourself if you cannot bear the truth but do not expect the rest of us to think that defending the country in future should only be by bombs and missiles, we need public health defenses. This war on a virus has cost more than a shooting war in terms of people dead and economic cost because we spent our money on the wrong kind of defenses. "Chy na bad" my ass.
Re:Poetic justice (Score:4, Insightful)
Look, I don't like Boris - and this is certainly ironic, given his government's previous "only take action to protect the elderly / go for herd immunity" policy. But laughing about people going into the ICU because of a severe respiratory infection is tasteless.
I may wish him out of office, but I'd never wish him physical harm.
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Re:Poetic justice (Score:5, Insightful)
When history judges how many unnecessary lives were lost while he dithered, cherrypicked medical advice and carried on politicking at a time of national emergency, it won't be kind to him.
We're talking about a man who resorts to truth only when backed into a corner and never let's failure or incompetence spoil a good boast.
Re:Poetic justice (Score:5, Funny)
We're talking about a man who resorts to truth only when backed into a corner and never let's failure or incompetence spoil a good boast.
Bullshit. Citation Needed. I've never seen him resort to truth.
Re:Shit (Score:5, Insightful)
it was already real. You just lived under a rock.
Re:How about we.. (Score:5, Insightful)
..take a moment to recognize a fellow human is in dire straits as a result of this damnable virus and hope for their recovery?
I'm certainly not a fan of Mr. Johnson's policies, but I wouldn't wish Covid-19 on him. /. readers, you are better than this.
He did it to himself. And he had the education (but apparently not the brains) to understand how stupid what he did was. Sorry, if you do it to yourself when you should know better you do not get a lot of compassion from me. (If you seek help in making better decisions, that may change.) And since he basically assured a 10x or so in victims in the UK due to his "strategy", I need to add that I rarely find it in me to have any compassion at all for somebody that is a mass-killer on a staggering scale.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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Indeed. This person is directly responsible for a significant increase in victims. May be 10x, may be worse.
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"Sorry you feel that way"
Lots of people WILL die because of him and the 100.000 missing health personal he caused.