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Medicine United Kingdom

Boris Johnson, UK Prime Minister, Has the Coronavirus (nytimes.com) 349

For weeks, Prime Minister Boris Johnson was a defiant holdout among Western leaders in refusing to lock down his country against the spread of the coronavirus. On Friday, he became the first of those leaders known to have contracted the disease. From a report: Mr. Johnson's diagnosis, confirmed in a test on Thursday, threatened to throw an already rattled British government into turmoil. Fears of a wider contagion grew, as another senior official disclosed he was also infected. Britain faced the alarming prospect of having to confront its greatest crisis since World War II with much of its leadership in quarantine. Mr. Johnson, 55, insisted he would not relinquish his duties. In a remarkable two-minute video posted on Twitter, he used his own case as a sort of teachable moment for the country, appealing to people to work from home and comply with the more drastic social distancing measures he put in place last Monday.
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Boris Johnson, UK Prime Minister, Has the Coronavirus

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  • If I recall it was the the official position of the current UK government not long ago to spread the virus as widely and quickly as possible so to build up "herd immunity" as quickly as possible.

    At the time the mortality rate was estimated low, something like 1% or less. They figured that was a reasonable price to pay.

    So BJ the PM went around deliberately shaking hands as the leader of that thinking. There are Republican leaders still thinking that's what we should do here.

    • There are Republican leaders still thinking that's what we should do here.

      I'm sure they, just like Boris Johnson, are on the record as being sick of listening to experts.

  • His clearly stated view is that most of the population will get COVID-19, and that the job of government is not to prevent that happen.

    Kudos on him for acting on his belief. Hopefully he has not infected too many with different beliefs.

    • Re:He got his wish (Score:5, Insightful)

      by SuricouRaven ( 1897204 ) on Friday March 27, 2020 @02:01PM (#59878648)

      It's not as unreasonable as it sounds. There comes a point when containment is impossible - widespread infection becomes unavoidable. In those circumstances, the best approach is to slow it down as much as possible. That makes it a lot easier for medical services to cope. A million patients spread over a year are a lot easier to handle than a million patients in a month.

      • No one thinks containment is possible anymore. That's why everyone is yelling about "flattening the curve" and not "isolate and overcome."

        • No one thinks containment is possible anymore. That's why everyone is yelling about "flattening the curve" and not "isolate and overcome."

          This is not entirely correct. We have failed at initial containment but there's been a gradual realisation, even in most countries that used to believe in herd immunity that just letting the virus run will always be unacceptable. Now we need to lock down in order to stop the virus and then, once the incidence is reduced we can revert to containment. There's a nice pair of articles which you might enjoy reading, the first of which explains why stopping the virus is the only option [medium.com] and the second of which

      • by DrXym ( 126579 )
        It is unreasonable and obviously so. If in doubt Google "flatten the curve". If in further doubt Google it again.
    • I guess we know now why the British government did an about-face a couple weeks ago regarding how to deal with COVID-19.

  • by Laxator2 ( 973549 ) on Friday March 27, 2020 @01:30PM (#59878518)

    Until now, he only "herd" of it.

  • Oh no (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mobby_6kl ( 668092 ) on Friday March 27, 2020 @01:31PM (#59878532)

    What a shame!

    I do hope he and everyone else recovers, but I don't get the insistence on keeping business as usual that he and Pence (and probably many others) did - like refusing to stop shaking hands because "that's what we do". They probably think it makes them look like a brave, reassuring leader, like a general charging into battle, but instead this just sets a bad example and endangers them and the entire government.

    Politicians here, for all their usual faults, seem to at maintain distance, wear masks and skip the handshakes.

    • Actually Pence when not in the company of trump does not shake hands. Kimmel had a video of Pence elbow bumping people in all sorts of places, sans trump.
  • A little bit of comeuppance for the court buffoon. More to come.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Jarwulf ( 530523 )
      If I disagree politically with Obama does that mean he should get a disease?
      • by Actually, I do RTFA ( 1058596 ) on Friday March 27, 2020 @02:41PM (#59878836)

        If Obama was talking about how it was no big deal and COVID-19 should spread wide and fast to make the economy not skip a beat, you'd be okay to laugh when he got it too. This isn't "bad unrelated thing happened to person you dislike", this is "leader of a country plays stupid games while urging others to do so, personally wins stupid prizes"

        • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

          by Jarwulf ( 530523 )
          So European leaders and the MSM up until Trump weighed in should get covid? I mean look what they were saying here until trump changed their mind https://tinyurl.com/wftv5dy [tinyurl.com]
          • I'd love to live in your alternate reality where the US President lead the international fight against the coronavirus

            In January, your links show they were urging people to get flu shots, as it was a more immediate (and preventable) threat. What's your point? By Jan. 31 they had moved on to "oh shit this is a big deal" Meanwhile, in March, Trump was still telling people it was a democratic hoax. And that the country could be open again by Easter. This while Italy has officials wandering the streets ye

          • You know that Google serves up personalised results right. Your link gave me a bunch of stories discussing the scientific comparison between Covid-19 and influenza, several stories that were just summaries of what WHO has posted on any given day, and a few stories of Trump calling the virus a hoax.

            If you're getting anti EU leader stories en mass in a google search result it points to a long history of your own searches containing nothing but confirmation bias and that Google thinks you're probably happiest

  • Conservative Greed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sdinfoserv ( 1793266 ) on Friday March 27, 2020 @01:52PM (#59878608)
    Conservatives are now actively pushing that the United States open business, remove social distancing and allow the virus to flare, instead of staying closed and staying healthy.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]
    https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]
    It’s a decision that boils down to the single fundamental difference between conservatism and liberalism. The decision and subsequent action is people or money. It’s really that simple. Its core value system that defines you as a person and every decision you make. Do we as a Nation choose to help the sick, the weak, the infirmed, the elderly; or do willingly choose to sacrifice a percentage of them for money. If we choose the latter, if we choose to sacrifice human life over wealth we must accept the consequences and the implications of that decision; for ever. We lose the right to dictate any humanitarian requirements, or condemn any country for its lack of humanitarian treatment of its citizens. We lose the right to stand behind any action we claim is “good”, because our values and interests are only driven by the pursuit of wealth. And, not to forget any who advocate sacrificing others for wealth can no longer claim to be Christian. Such behavior is the antithesis of all the teachings and principles of Christ.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Conservatives are Ferengi without the ears.

      • Maybe the planks of the 2020 Republican convention platform will just be the various Rules of Acquisition.

      • Nope (Score:4, Informative)

        by Actually, I do RTFA ( 1058596 ) on Friday March 27, 2020 @02:50PM (#59878864)

        Conservatives could never adhere to the Rules of Acquisition. Hell, #74 is "Knowledge equals profit." Having everyone reopen violates #125 "You can't make a deal if you're dead. " and #57 "Good customers are as rare as latinum. Treasure them. "

        Now, a Ferengi might work themselves during a pandemic to make more money, but that's because they could jack prices up because no one else is. After all, #23 "Nothing is more important than your health⦠except for your money. "

    • by Jarwulf ( 530523 )
      At a certain point economic shutdowns cost lives too. This isn't a simple equation with saving lives on just one side
      • At a certain point economic shutdowns cost lives too. This isn't a simple equation with saving lives on just one side

        Yep...if things get desperate, then well..violence and the police aren't going to be there to save you. And just to make things even more pleasant...they are already letting folks out of the jails in some cities.

        That's bad enough, but wait till the prisons don't hold the really bad guys anymore.....

        It won't be pretty.

      • by Actually, I do RTFA ( 1058596 ) on Friday March 27, 2020 @02:52PM (#59878874)

        Economic shutdowns don't have to cost lives. They can just cost money. No one is advocating closing grocers, meat-packing-plants, etc.

        We could just not let people get evicted and give them money for food and medicine and such.

      • by Ogive17 ( 691899 )
        So what happens when the infections spread and businesses have to shut down when they do not have enough workers? That's the worst of both worlds.

        Before my company stopped production at our Alabama facility, they had 2 days of limited production because they didn't have enough people show up to work. This was before any state mandated closures in Alabama... simply people skipping work because they didn't want the risk.

        My company has been extremely reasonable - I do know production must resume at som
      • by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Friday March 27, 2020 @04:03PM (#59879222)

        At a certain point economic shutdowns cost lives too. This isn't a simple equation with saving lives on just one side

        Yes but accounting for externalities it seems that the economic shutdown is actually saving lives completely irrespective of any pandemic currently underway. Less pollution, less accidents, road death toll is down, the flu season (actual flu) has taken a nosedive.

        What is actually going to cost lives is some USA idealism that people should not be offered a social safety net. In most developed nations this isn't the case and we don't let people starve over their inability to go to work.

    • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

      by RazorSharp ( 1418697 )

      And, not to forget any who advocate sacrificing others for wealth can no longer claim to be Christian. Such behavior is the antithesis of all the teachings and principles of Christ.

      I take it you haven't heard of the (very hypocritical) Prosperity Gospel.

      In all seriousness I agree with everything you wrote. It reminds me of this [thebulwark.com] article from The Bulwark discussing the hypocrisy of conservatives claiming to be pro-life, anti-euthanasia, pro-Christian when they make such arguments about how the economy is more valuable than our elderly and infirm.

      With the rise of Trump, I think a lot of moderate Republicans (such as the editorial staff at The Bulwark), are being forced to look in the mir

    • Money == people

      Look, do you drive a car? Yes. Okay. 30,000 people die in the US every single year in car accidents.

      But you're a conservative who doesn't give two shits in hell about those people, right? Because how else will you get where you want to go?

      if you cared, you would quit driving and get everybody else to quit driving. Because those people matter and we could save 30,000 lives each year if we just quit.

      Right?

      That's what you sound like.

      It's not just pursuing wealth or whatever - there are real

    • Do we as a Nation choose to help the sick, the weak, the infirmed, the elderly; or do willingly choose to sacrifice a percentage of them for money.

      This is a false dichotomy, because if we just let the virus run its course it's going to do far, far more economic damage than if we shelter in place. If you don't believe me, you haven't run the numbers on what just letting the virus go looks like. 40M deaths in the US is completely possible if you assume everyone goes back to normal and doesn't respond at all. The problem is that while the virus is minor for 80% of the people who get it, and definitely fatal for only 1-2%, the other 18-19% need medical t

  • When it is over (or sooner) I hope leaders across the world who saw what was happening elsewhere in real-time with their own eyes and decided only after it was too late to act are held fully accountable for their inaction and profound lack of leadership.

    --
    You'll have packed churches all over our country.
    I think it would be a beautiful time.

  • Not so long ago... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by DrXym ( 126579 ) on Friday March 27, 2020 @02:50PM (#59878860)
    ... Boris was on camera bragging about how many hands he shook at a hospital dealing with COVID patients. This well thought out plan seems have had consequences. And being the PM he has since met dozens of senior figures daily and has thus probably spread the virus far and wide through the upper echelons of politics, civil service, military, police etc. So expect plenty more cases in the news in the coming days.

    In summary, he's a fucking idiot.

  • Vacillating (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Martin S. ( 98249 ) on Friday March 27, 2020 @03:36PM (#59879092) Journal

    At the start of this crisis, in the middle of February Johnson took a two week holiday to celebrate brexit. When that was over he spent two weeks vacillating over how to act on the coronavirus. The result of that early failure is the current massive overreaction that looks a lot like a government in panic.

  • Silver linings (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Krakadoom ( 1407635 ) on Friday March 27, 2020 @04:12PM (#59879266)

    This is possibly the best thing that could happen for the UK if he becomes unable to handle his duties and would have to be replaced with someone competent.

Stellar rays prove fibbing never pays. Embezzlement is another matter.

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