How Robert Cringely Scored 5 Million N95 Masks From China (cringely.com) 99
This week, tech pundit Robert Cringely described how a chance conversation with China-based entrepreneur Anina led to a friend with a garment factory "now making fully certified N-95 respirators with no clear distribution plan."
Late on a Sunday night with the tech world in shut-down, how long would it take for me to find someone looking for up to five million N-95 masks? It took 10 minutes.
I reached out to Salesforce.com CEO Marc Benioff and to Mark Cuban from the Dallas Mavericks and Shark Tank... Mark Cuban put me in touch with ProjectN95, a just-created national clearinghouse for urgently needed medical equipment... It's important to realize what a miracle we accomplished. Normally there are lots of middlemen in Chinese distribution, but in this case, there were none, which meant maximal speed and minimal price. The goods were U.S. FDA certified, too, and the certification could be verified...
We are tech people attempting to function during a pandemic, but what really counted here were personal relationships. Anina knows and trusts the factory owner. Anina and I have known each other for 15 years and I've known Marc Benioff and Mark Cuban even longer. We spend billions as a culture trying to build digital versions of such webs of trust, but sometimes it is better to do it the old fashion way.
I reached out to Salesforce.com CEO Marc Benioff and to Mark Cuban from the Dallas Mavericks and Shark Tank... Mark Cuban put me in touch with ProjectN95, a just-created national clearinghouse for urgently needed medical equipment... It's important to realize what a miracle we accomplished. Normally there are lots of middlemen in Chinese distribution, but in this case, there were none, which meant maximal speed and minimal price. The goods were U.S. FDA certified, too, and the certification could be verified...
We are tech people attempting to function during a pandemic, but what really counted here were personal relationships. Anina knows and trusts the factory owner. Anina and I have known each other for 15 years and I've known Marc Benioff and Mark Cuban even longer. We spend billions as a culture trying to build digital versions of such webs of trust, but sometimes it is better to do it the old fashion way.
What is this? (Score:2, Flamebait)
What is this? Cringely week? Give us a break.
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From comments on the article:
ron April 2, 2020 at 12:34 pm - Reply
how do you know the garment factory masks are actually N95 qualified? who did the certification and how do you know it is authentic?
Moeskido April 2, 2020 at 1:21 pm - Reply
Their website indicates that what they’re sourcing will be NIOSH-approved.
Yes, because some random Chinses website is guaranteed to be reliable and honest.
Just like all the Chinese-made products that are stamped with "Made in USA".
Fucxking idiots.
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What are "personal relationships"? /.
This is
Expecting 300 posts hating China and 600 hating Cringely. /.
This is
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"personal realtionships" are the 'elites' and their chums running the world on our behalf, of course, because its so much better for us that way. Don't you see, if they werew allowed to go to lolita Island to make these connections and network, then the world would be just right and all the medical equipment you need would be made available.
Of course all you little peasants could try and do what we do yourselves, but then you'd have all these masks sitting in China with nobody to buy them.
That's what it mea
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What about posts hating a Chinese Cringely?
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Cuban, too. If I want coronavirus info from a celebrity - I want it to be an authoritative celebrity source, like Kim Kardashian, not b-listers like Marks Stephens and Cuban.
Yes, per usual (Score:5, Funny)
We are tech people attempting to function during a pandemic, but what really counted here were personal relationships.
Yes, we already know how old boys' networks work.
If you find yourself needing a mask, just call up Marc Benioff or Mark Cuban. I'm sure they'll take your call.
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I got it the first time.
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Re: Yes, per usual (Score:1)
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Re: Yes, per usual (Score:4, Funny)
I'm not quite sure what a neo liberal is.
Duh, it's the opposite of a neo-conservative. Moderately related to a neo-socialist, but not as ideological as a neo-communist. More compassionate than a neo-capitalist, but a bit less pragmatic than a neo-centrist.
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I'm not quite sure what a neo liberal is.
Duh, it's the opposite of a neo-conservative. Moderately related to a neo-socialist, but not as ideological as a neo-communist. More compassionate than a neo-capitalist, but a bit less pragmatic than a neo-centrist.
Are you just pretending to be ignorant, I hope?
Yes, neoliberalism is bad, but it means supporting free-market capitalism, deregulation, and reduction in government spending.
Re: Yes, per usual (Score:5, Funny)
I was just trying to be neo-funny, but I guess I neo-failed.
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I'm just trying to be Neo, but I took the wrong pill.
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Neo-liberal is the original term for what we call fiscal conservatives today.
Meanwhile, conservatives are ecstatic that their own billionaire is finally promising to help, or not, or maybe he will, if he stops changing his mind.
Remember, billionaires are evil destroyers of mankind if they don't belong to your preferred political party, but otherwise they are tremendous benefactors of all mankind. Binary thinking is very useful as it conserves so much mental energy.
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Neoliberals are the scary right-way mirror images of liberals.
Re:Yes, per usual (Score:4, Insightful)
You missed the funny bit buried within, the solution to the problems created by outsourcing and no longer being able to produce what you need in an emergency, MORE OUTSOURCING, funny fucker ;D (but what happens when they say no and sell it to someone else).
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America is richest and bestest, they will just pay more and get the stuff.
Capitalism for the win again !
As long as those Commies keep making all your stuff...
We are being flooded with fakes... (Score:1)
According to the folks in NYC lots of the stuff they are getting are fake.
I imagine that this is also probably the case.
The fact that they can revamp for this so quickly throws up a lot of red flags.
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The US is flooded with fake shit made in China. Absolutely 100% guaranteed that these N95 masks are garbage.
More fake news from a fake journalist.
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Get a reality check.
By now, China is manufacturing everything. Even the stuff that is not crap. Your iphone is neither crap nor face just because it is made in china.
But that of course didn't stop china from keeping on flooding the US with fake crap. In other words: US production now neither covers quality products nor crap. Both has been outsourced to China.
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As for those many Chinese middlemen, I don’t know. China is one of those few countries where even consumers are often able to order stuff in small lots d
And this is supposed to be "THE GOOD NEWS" ? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Sad to read about such bullshit happening, virtual +1 informative.
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Re: And this is supposed to be "THE GOOD NEWS" ? (Score:1)
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Oh please Obama used up the national stockpile and had YEARS to replenish the n95 stockpile but didn't . Trying to say any of the presidents was well prepared is bullshit . It's has been fact checked to death because it really makes Obama look bad. Used up the supply but didn't put it back. https://www.usatoday.com/story... [usatoday.com]
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Thank the dear Lord you're here to deflect to Obama. I'd nearly forgotten him. So brilliant that the current incumbent got in there and fixed that problem. Now we have N95 masks flowing out our butts because the anti-Obama overturned that darkness.
Re: And this is supposed to be "THE GOOD NEWS" ? (Score:3, Insightful)
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How many years should it take to replenish? How many years was Trump in office?
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Some US states got ready around the SARS years. But state politics often changed to use the money after the use-by date for other state spending.
Re "but they have to be developed and tested before a crisis."...
The attempt was made to stop tourism well before wuflu got community spread.
Any "pandemic response team" would not have got deep into Communist China...
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Any "pandemic response team" would not have got deep into Communist China...
No, but it could have greatly improved our response to it.
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I'm thinking we either subsidize companies to keep idle capacity
But .. but that might lower the value of the NYSE!
How selfish of you.
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Since when being at the mercy of a opposing regime become the new norm of national security?
That's right, the only ones you can rely on are your allies.
Oh, wait [nypost.com]...
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That police tower though..
I thought it should have had some kind of little drone runway next to it or something.
China should STOP shipping medical supplies to US! (Score:1)
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Why aren't US waking up to the fact that some things should not be outsourced
I find it funny that you think so locally during an unprecedented pandemic. I saw the same claim here in Europe, that buying masks from China is a result of us outsourcing everything, despite the fact that before the pandemic 100% of masks in this country came from EU factories, and those factories are working overtime already.
Capacity for calamities that we are experiencing don't exist normally, not without government support. And just what should we support? Do you want the government to stockpile and fun
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Since when being at the mercy of a opposing regime become the new norm of national security ? Those people selling you 5 million masks today will not give you 500 when they feel the pinch.
Which is the same that would happen in a free market. Someone who gave you 5 million masks wouldn't give you 500 if he can sell it someowhere else with more profit.
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You do have the capability to make all that stuff. There are factories in the US that can make masks and PPE, you have factories that make all the electronic parts needed for ventilators except for some of the ICs but you have foundries that can be retooled for those too. Yes some of them are foreign owned, e.g. AVX, but they are in the US.
The problem you have is that the manufacturers are all working on commercial considerations. Until the big fat purchase orders come in they aren't going to retool or star
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Well, we could manufacture more in America if American business were willing to spend the extra money. Remember, globalism didn't happen because of a secret liberal plot, it happened because that's how manufacturers can make more money.
Even with food. Sure, we don't want illegal immigrants harvesting food on our farms, but at the same time we don't have enough legal American residents willing to do the back breaking migratory work for less than minimum wage. And we ship food in from all over the world so
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It takes better pics than the N-94.
And FDA certified too! (Score:3, Interesting)
The weasel sentence is here:.
"The goods were U.S. FDA certified, too, and the certification could be verified"
OK how can they be verified? Why does he trail off here and not inform us how they can be "verified".
My bet is that he proved that a gullible idiot looking for a story can be scammed in less than 10 minutes.
Accessdata.fda.gov. Masks aren't complicated (Score:5, Informative)
You verify certification at accessdata.fda.gov
Masks aren't complicated or expensive to make the "trick" is to get N95 (filters 95%), you need to use a certain type of polypropylene fabric. Polypropylene isn't expensive or hard to get - it's one of the most common plastics.
I'm sure the factories that make the polypropylene threads are pretty busy right now. I wonder if it cannuse the exact same equipment as nylon and other common synthetic fabrics.
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The FDA inspects overseas manufacturing (Score:2)
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You only hurt yourself if you insist that everything you use and inspect be manufactured domestically.
If you really believe that, then you haven't been paying attention lately.
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OK how can they be verified? Why does he trail off here and not inform us how they can be "verified".
Yes but how do you verify the verifier? And then verify the verifier of the verifier? You are searching for far more information than what is relevant to know about this story. Why does he trail off? Because it's a media publication, not an internal ISO9001 declaration of quality control.
My bet is that he proved that a gullible idiot looking for a story can be scammed in less than 10 minutes.
China has supplied FDA (and other regulatory bodies from multiple countries) certified medical equipment and industrial PPE for many years. This isn't rocket surgery and not everything in China is a $2 USB cord which blows
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Yes but how do you verify the verifier?
You have to trust someone, unless you can do the testing yourself.
I trust a federal government agency (the FDA)
a fuck of a lot more than some Chinese salesman.
Cringely discovers Aliexpress (Score:5, Funny)
I see Robert Cringely has just discovered that you can order things directly from China on AliExpress. The rest of it seems to be some bragging over "his" connections in the tech industry.
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Well, you used to be able to... Recently I've had a few orders cancelled before they ship. It's getting back to normal now.
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Yeah, the real question is if those "N95" masks are legit. If they are like most things from AliExpress, they're just a cheap knock off that's about as effective as a paper surgical mask.
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By out of the blue I mean product-wise. We've already done business with these manufacturers so that part wasn't entirely unsolicited. We've just never gotten involved with medical equipment and will likely never be doing that.
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His article is embarrassing. What's funny is that he doesn't even realize this.
Silly to outsource medical stuff (Score:5, Insightful)
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They understood from the SARS years to be ready. Even some US states knew to be ready after the SARS years.
The rest of the USA thought just in time would always work from a Communist nation.....
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The US really lacks a game plan for industrial policy. Some things shouldn't be outsourced, like medical, military, or basic food production.
It does no such thing. You're talking about an unprecedented case of demand. The USA has local production of such masks and the factories are running full tilt. Now the question is ultimately one of how much do you over provision. What do you over provision. And critically, how much tax are you willing to pay to over provision.
China can have every citizen wearing masks yet our medical personnel struggle to keep up.
That's a silly statement to make:
a) not every citizen is wearing a mask. The vast majority of citizens are not, they are at home and not going outside.
b) every US citizen can wear a b
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You have everything you need to make N95 masks. The US has manufacturing for polypropylene filters and masks. That's not the problem.
The problem is you got started late on manufacturing, competition for stock is pushing prices up and the federal government isn't coordinating or distributing what is available. You were supposed to stockpile like China did, and use big federal contracts to keep prices down with the threat of requisitioning those factories if they try to gouge.
What do we actually have? (Score:5, Insightful)
I read the article.
It doesn't sound to me like the 5 million masks exist.
It sounds to me like an order was placed to manufacture masks and that's nice. But it isn't "scored 5 million masks".
A time frame for delivery would be relevant here.
The modalities of "Scoring" have quite changed (Score:2)
And some of them give you jail now.
Compulsive bovine egesting billionaires (Score:2, Informative)
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I'm doing one, and blame the state for that. They are still living in 2019 where things get bids, and things are built to order.
In 2020 it's a GOLDRUSH/PANIC. If you don't take the quotation that very minute someone else will and they are SOLD.
Honestly I don't think any of the governments will have anything as they are too trapped in the past, and cannot and will not commimt to buying anything. Also they want to pull a NET90 on me! Are you kidding me? I can sell to some rando online and get paid in ADV
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The short simple answer is: So that people like you don't rip them off.
The longer and more thorough answer would include words like diligence, fraud, testing and verification. I can see why you'd like to avoid all of that.
Yay Cringe! (Score:2)
It's the man in the arena... This time, it just happened, he DIDN'T get knocked down.
As to the rest.. Fuggeddabout it!
Case study? (Score:2)
The summary says "chance conversation". He got lucky.
DUH and or HELLO? (Score:5, Interesting)
every factory I deal with in China is currently making mediacal supplies. One of my vendors that makes fucking ceramic pots bought 9 machines to make masks, at a cost of 70,000 RMB each, and he broke even on his investment in 15 DAYS.
There is a proverbial TIDAL WAVE of PPE in China.
Web of trust (Score:2)
"Web of trust". That's what they call the corporate serveillance state now?
"I participated in two investing panels..." (Score:2)
Hope they test them.. (Score:2)
Berlin Mystery (Score:3)
Well that may solve the mystery of the 200000 masks orderd by Berlin police that went missing... ("Sold to a higer bidder instead" is the most current explanation.)
He's not even a real person!! (Score:1)
What is this? A winning entry to the fake news contest??
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What is this? A winning entry to the fake news contest??
What is this? A winning entry to the fake news contest??
It's a pseudonym that's been used (and sued over) by a number of tech writers. The current Mr. Cringely, like all of his predecessors, lives or dies by media exposure. Seems he's doing pretty well at Slashdot these days -- is there a connection we don't know about?
Accusations of piracy (Score:1)
What about the reports the US is outbidding other countries' purchases of medical supplies?