Hospitals Tell Doctors They'll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear (bloomberg.com) 310
schwit1 shares a report from Bloomberg, commenting: "And the claim that this is about protecting 'patient privacy' is b***shit." From the report: Ming Lin, an emergency room physician in Washington state, said he was told Friday he was out of a job because he'd given an interview to a newspaper about a Facebook post detailing what he believed to be inadequate protective equipment and testing. In Chicago, a nurse was fired after emailing colleagues that she wanted to wear a more protective mask while on duty. In New York, the NYU Langone Health system has warned employees they could be terminated if they talk to the media without authorization."
Doctors are a famously independent profession, where individual medical judgment on what's best for the patient is prized over administrative dictates. That's reared its head during the Covid-19 outbreak, with many physicians, nurses and other health-care workers taking to social media to express deep concerns about the lack of protective gear or much-needed patient-care equipment like respirators. Some posts have gone viral and are being shared hundreds of thousands of times, often tagged with #GetMePPE. Privacy laws prohibit disclosing specific patient information, but they don't bar discussing general working conditions. The report notes that not all hospitals are blocking staff from talking to the press. "New York's Mount Sinai has been scheduling media interviews for nurses, physicians and trainees to help the public understand the severity of the crisis," reports Bloomberg. "The University of California San Francisco Medical Center has gotten hundreds of such calls and encouraged workers to talk to reporters."
Doctors are a famously independent profession, where individual medical judgment on what's best for the patient is prized over administrative dictates. That's reared its head during the Covid-19 outbreak, with many physicians, nurses and other health-care workers taking to social media to express deep concerns about the lack of protective gear or much-needed patient-care equipment like respirators. Some posts have gone viral and are being shared hundreds of thousands of times, often tagged with #GetMePPE. Privacy laws prohibit disclosing specific patient information, but they don't bar discussing general working conditions. The report notes that not all hospitals are blocking staff from talking to the press. "New York's Mount Sinai has been scheduling media interviews for nurses, physicians and trainees to help the public understand the severity of the crisis," reports Bloomberg. "The University of California San Francisco Medical Center has gotten hundreds of such calls and encouraged workers to talk to reporters."
Doctor unemployment (Score:3)
Re: Doctor unemployment (Score:2)
Re: Doctor unemployment (Score:4, Insightful)
How's that for profit model working out for the US? Up here in Canada we're asking recently retired doctors to return to work.
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However, to your wider point, the public health plan for most of the U.S. is "Don't Get Sick".
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How's that for profit model working out for the US? Up here in Canada we're asking recently retired doctors to return to work.
And many of them will, but to be fair we have a serious lack of supplies here as well. Saw one of Quebec's health representatives saying they are burning through PPE at 10 times the normal rate, and it has not even gotten as bad as it is going get to yet.
The people in charge of contingency planning are the ones who should be fired. Should create a lot of job openings globally in the coming days.
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No Canadian hospital or jurisdiction is threatening to fire doctors for reporting on low supplies.
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No Canadian hospital or jurisdiction is threatening to fire doctors for reporting on low supplies.
Good thing, because a lot of Canadian health care workers are complaining about low supplies.
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You can plan for contingencies but someone has to pay for the supplies. The bean counters ultimately decide just how much is planned for and what, if anything, is stockpiled. The bean counters may be money grubbing capitalists, politicians that would rather raid the contingency funds for X, the public that doesn't want to pay for it, or bureaucrats that are too afraid of the Chairman to tell the truth. It will be interesting to see which of those will be doing the most grandstanding about the failure of the
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California labor code section 1050 (Score:2)
1050.
Any person, or agent or officer thereof, who, after having discharged an employee from the service of such person or after an employee has voluntarily left such service, by any misrepresentation prevents or attempts to prevent the former employee from obtaining employment, is guilty of a misdemeanor.
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It is BS (Score:4, Insightful)
While I might feel different about hospitals in other countries, I think in the USA, this is BS
While in other countries, hospitals are government funded (and so wouldn't have been approved to buy this if they have someone like Trump denying the issue until its late), the US medical system isn't government run and so they should have been able to understand and react in advance, understanding that at best they have enough protective gear, at worst, they have a stock pile and wouldn't need to re-stock for a while. (The tests are a bit of a different issue). Instead, they never bothered to buy up until now. And now its biting them in the ass, and they are on damage control to hide their own inability to think ahead (and only think of the month's PPE budget is in the expected range)
Re: It is BS (Score:4, Informative)
Hospitals are subject to all sorts of restrictions as to how much oversupply of medical gear and number of beds they are allowed to have at both the federal and state level.
Re: It is BS (Score:5, Informative)
Citation required to support that such restrictions apply not only to beds and expensive diagnostic equipment such as MRIs but also to non-capital expenditures such as scrubs, bandages, gloves, tubing for vents (or even vents themselves).
Oh, wait, I'll provide you with a link [ncsl.org] that shows what each state requires a Certificate Of Need (CON) for. Happy hunting looking for states that require a CON to buy scrubs, masks, gloves, or even ventilators.
For those states that require CONs at all, some typical requirements are that they are needed to:
Show me where disposable or other non-capital expenditures to provide existing services are limited.
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that does sound like a bunch of bullshit? it does sound like an excuse someone came up with for why they can't buy 3 years worth of masks and instead should invest the money in the stock market for larger gAiInS.
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In business, cash is king.
If you're a CEO and report to a board, you're judged by your quarterly and annual numbers. Tying up cash in a rainy day stockpile is not going too make you look smart, especially since none of your competitors are doing it either.
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While in other countries, hospitals are government funded (and so wouldn't have been approved to buy this if they have someone like Trump denying the issue until its late), the US medical system isn't government run and so they should have been able to understand and react in advance, understanding that at best they have enough protective gear, at worst, they have a stock pile and wouldn't need to re-stock for a while.
Actually it is the private system that is much less likely to spend money that won't have some sort of immediate return on investment. When government does it, detractors call it a "waste of money".
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I'd give you a mod point if I ever had one...
You might be interested in Democracy in Chains . Pretty sure it addresses your topics, though I'm not too far into it. The way I would currently word the thesis is that greedy people are gaming the system to extract more money because there is NO amount of money that can solve the unsolvable problem of their infinite greed.
The key is that most people are basically content with getting along, so the super-greedy bastards have been refining their algorithms to pus
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Frank McCloud: He knows what he wants. Don't you, Rocco?
Johnny Rocco: Sure.
James Temple: What's that?
Frank McCloud: Tell him, Rocco.
Johnny Rocco: Well, I want uh
Frank McCloud: He wants more, don't you, Rocco?
Johnny Rocco: Yeah. That's it. More. That's right! I want more!
20/20 hindsight (Score:3, Interesting)
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Bullshit. The intelligence agencies gave warnings to both the Administration and Congress back in January. THEY WERE IGNORED. And as far as healthcare management goes, it's been a shitshow for years. You have truly drunk the conservatard KoolAid.
Re: 20/20 hindsight (Score:2)
Stop watching CNN, itâ(TM)s hurting your brain. The task force and funding was cut under Obama by Congress. Congress controls the purse.
Even so, it doesnâ(TM)t seem like any government is doing any better. Both China and both North and South Korea and a ton of other dictatorships and oppressive governments have now been caught with their pants down lying about the whole thing (not counting infected that donâ(TM)t show symptoms for example). Europe is on fire, theyâ(TM)re seeing infection
Re:20/20 hindsight (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes we are. Your own link confirms that we are doing better than the US.
The countries that are doing best are the ones that invested a lot in social healthcare, like Germany. The death rate is very low in Germany because they have a lot of ICU beds and a lot of ventilators. As usual idiots were complaining about them being a waste of money but fortunately many Germans seem to value healthcare very highly.
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Re:It is BS (Score:5, Insightful)
Because everyone in his administration knew that if they said anything publicly, they would be fired. That's just how he works. Everyone knows this.
Re:It is BS (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It is BS (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not your president.
Europe has the same problem all over, in different shades of grey, but nobody here took any serious action until it was already too late. Some countries started taking action as late as last week.
And not one of the fucking politicians in charge copied the successful efforts done in Taiwan or South Korea, or Singapore or China. Yes, some of those places had high case numbers, but China for example did successfully contain the virus to one region.
We may well end up with the conclusion that our entire system has failed us. The way we elect our government (no effective separation of legislative and executive branch) to the way we run our economy (not enough emergency supplies because some consultant optimised them out as "unproductive").
No need to wear masks, this will be over soon... (Score:5, Informative)
January20: "I know more about viruses than anyone."
January 22: "We have it totally under control. It's one person coming in from China. It's going to be just fine."
February 2: "We pretty much shut it down coming in from China."
February 24: "The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA⦠Stock Market starting to look very good to me!"
February 25: "CDC and my Administration are doing a GREAT job of handling Coronavirus."
February 25: "I think that's a problem that's going to go away... They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we're very close to a vaccine."
February 26: "The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero."
February 26: "We're going very substantially down, not up."
February 27: "One day it's like a miracle, it will disappear."
February 28: "We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical."
March 2: "You take a solid flu vaccine, you don't think that could have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?"
March 2: "A lot of things are happening, a lot of very exciting things are happening and they're happening very rapidly."
March 4: "If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work â" some of them go to work, but they get better."
March 5: "I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work."
March 5: "The United States has, as of now, only 129 cases and 11 deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!"
March 6: "I think we're doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down⦠a tremendous job at keeping it down."
March 6: "Anybody right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They're there. And the tests are beautifulâ¦. the tests are all perfect like the letter was perfect. The transcription was perfect. Right? This was not as perfect as that but pretty good."
March 6: "I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it⦠Every one of these doctors said, âHow do you know so much about this?' Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president."
March 6: "I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault."
March 8: "We have a perfectly coordinated and fine tuned plan at the White House for our attack on CoronaVirus."
March 9: "This blindsided the world."
March 13: "National emergency, two big words."
March 13: "When you compare what we've done to other areas of the world, it's pretty incredible."
March 13: "Five million (tests) within a month... I doubt we'll need anything near that."
March 13: "I don't take responsibility at all."
March 14. "It's something that nobody expected⦠it's one of those things that happened. It's nobody's fault."
March 15: "This is a very contagious virus. It's incredible. But it's something that we have tremendous control over"
March 17: "I have always known this is a real, this is a pandemic. I've felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic⦠I've always viewed it as very serious."
March 19: "If we had an honest media in this country, our country would be an even greater place."
March 19: "It could have been stopped, could have been stopped pretty easily if we had known, if everybody had known about it⦠Nobody knew there'd be a pandemic⦠of this proportion."
March 25: "Nobody could have ever seen something like this coming."
March 25: "It's hard not be happy with the job we're doing, that I can tell you."
March 26: "I don't believe you need 40,000 or 30,000 ventilators. You go into major hospitals sometimes, and they'll have two ventilators. And now all of a sudden they're saying, âCan we order 30,000 ventilators?"
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"You should feel lucky Hillary isn't President right now. If she was you wouldn't be getting any money. That money would be sitting there not doing anything. Nothing. And you'd be back at work doing whatever. Going wherever. Instead of staying home and getting free money. Isn't this better?" - Agent Orange
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Re: No need to wear masks, this will be over soon. (Score:2)
My god, SNL couldn't have made up a skit like that over multiple openings if they tried!
I hope the Dems pick up on this during the election. I mean they had quite a tutorial from the Republicans on the last election.
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Are hospital administrators really that stupid?
Yes, they are that stupid and more. Hospitals used to be run by senior, experienced doctors, but the rise of the professional hospital administrator means that they are now run by people with no medical training or experience at all. This has inevitably turned into a hotbed of cronyism, incompetence and corruption. For the most part, current hospital administrators do not have the training or capability to meet the current crisis intelligently.
I'm aware of several major hospitals where the senior medical
Privacy? Panic prevention (Score:2)
Or at least delay. Should people just assume that there ain't enough medical facilities to address the cases and hospitals get overwhelmed, shit is going to hit the fan in ways we can't even imagine yet.
1HB for dockers coming US people get the loan bill (Score:2)
1HB for dockers coming US people get the loan bill 750K+ better get the mc job and start taking cash out of the till to pay it off.
It's a right to work state (Score:4, Insightful)
We've been chipping away at worker rights & protections for 40 years. Elections Have Consequences.
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As one former Engineering Director told those of us left after a layoff: "We are ALL temporary employees."
I guess the real question is where OSHA is in all of this? Is there anyone left manning the station there, or have they also been partisan-labotomized by the right as well? It seems that we at least used to have the right to demand that our work environments not be dangerous or make us sick. At least not too many years ago when I was last around manufacturing the bosses still feared being written up
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"Right to work" is a silly name that has everything to do with who has to pay union dues and nothing to do with being an at-will employee. However, the same states may have both rules.
Is This China Now? (Score:3)
Go on strike! (Score:2)
Drafted (Score:2)
A sure fire way to bring back the draft. Remember the Korean War?
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A sure fire way to bring back the draft. Remember the Korean War?
So all your sick people will then be treated by people who are there against their will?
"The beatings will continue until morale improves".
Fuck the Seattle Times (Score:2)
Tomorrow's headline... (Score:3)
Hum (Score:2)
FISHY : Everyone has no Supplies. (Score:2)
Private vs. Public (Score:2)
I might be wrong, but aren't Mt. Sinai and the UC San Francisco hospitals public hospitals? I know they're both teaching hospitals.
Were the hospitals that fired those people public or private? Might that account for the difference in policies?
Idle threat much? (Score:5, Insightful)
You wanna fire doctors now when you need them? Or later when they can sue your ass effectively?
Doctors and nurses can walk on water right now, all they have to do is say 'boo' to a reporter.
Nationalize them (Score:2, Interesting)
Invoke eminent domain [wikipedia.org] and nationalize them to support the emergency medical services under crisis.
Then let's see if they still don't care.
Spain did (Score:2)
That's probably not what we want though. If things go that far south we might be looking at a dictatorship. A real one. Think military Junta. We need to contain this beforehand.
Talking to media without authorization (Score:2)
Talking to media without authorization has been a (potentially) fireable offense for ages.
It makes sense, that this is especially so in times of anxiety and swirling conspiracy theories.
What the USA does best... (Score:2)
Copy China (Score:2)
do doctors even work for hospitals? (Score:2)
Every time I've seen a doctor they send a bill separate from the hospital's. It would be nice if they actually worked for the hospital instead of this death by a million papercuts bullshit.
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When we get single payer national health insurance, all the doctors will be GS-12s. Problem solved.
Right now no doc is actually being gagged (Score:2)
Because it's an emergency and the need for personnel is desperate, any doctor, nurse or medical tech who openly criticizes a hospital for some verifiable cause and gets fired will have job offers from ten other hospitals the next day.
Criminal (Score:2)
The hospital administrator who fires any doctor during this pandemic unless the doctor is killing people, needs to be arrested!
If some idiot can be arrested for yelling FIRE or another idiot can be arrested for telling people to freely ignore reason and go infect people then an idiot administrator should be arrested for putting people's lives at risk! This isn't even like the doctor did anything wrong; even if they did something horrible; short of the police arresting the doctor, they should be immune from
so? get a different job. (Score:2)
shouldn't really be all that hard in current situation.
meanwhile in (non-soviet) Russia (Score:3, Interesting)
I got some firsthand reports from Russia this morning that astonished me, and I was wondering why Putin can handle this crisis better than any western politician can. I want to share what I heard, because whatever you think of the guy, he's not stupid. And his government is the first outside Asia that seems to be doing things right. I'm ashamed for my government and wish they'd show they're better than the Russians - but sadly they aren't.
First, he gave a no-nonsense speech clearly explaining the situation, in simple language, without any of the "won't be so bad" or "we've got this" propaganda. He said there'll be dead. He said these are the actions coming. He didn't do this salami-strategy shit they did in Europe where on Wednesday they say there won't be curfews and on Saturday they announce them and the week after the make them more strict. Everyone in Russia knows what's coming. That is good crisis communication (disclaimer: I do sometimes train incident response and crisis management, but in another context).
Russia has seperated its regions, including sub-regions with the major cities such as Moscow or St. Petersburg. Travel outside your home region requires documents stating you work elsewhere etc.
There are ambulances and police standing everywhere, you can get masks from them and you can get tested for free and without conditions. Europe still tests only suspect cases who were in contact with infected or recently travelled to Italy or China. It's ridiculous.
If your government does worse than Russia, I think it's safe to say that your government has failed you.
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I think this is a problem begging for a legislative solution; as in remove the policy forthwith or the CEO and board get to live in a nice crowded state prison until the policy is removed.
hawguy is a selfish bastard projecting to doctors (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, we know how YOU [hawguy] think and we know how selfish and sociopathic you are and thank gawd you are not involved in helping other people in any way. Probably a so-called Libertarian, too, but insufficient evidence to apply that strongest of epithets.
And for sharing that thought you were moderated as insightful on today's Slashdot? Says a lot about the neighborhood. If I ever had a mod point... Naw, wouldn't matter. There isn't a sufficiently negative dimension of moderation here.
Anyway, what I feel when I hear about what the doctors are going through is quite different. They know the risks, but they keep doing the work. Then they get the "bonus" of having to watch their friends die, too. No amount of pay is sufficient. I never faced such peril in my life, but I can only wonder if I would have found the courage. I am NOT wondering about their courage. The cowards are NOT doing the work. There are no cowards working with Covid-19 patients, even in the hospitals where they have enough PPE.
Again, insufficient evidence, but I think you [hawguy] are probably projecting your cowardice, too. Or maybe you're just indirectly confessing to something like your own revenge-based or anger-driven whistle-blowing in the past? If you've screwed up someone's life, you're probably proud of it.
Meanwhile, the hospitals are still worrying about their profits and Trump is mumbling and drooling about protecting the stock market. There is a time for worrying about profits and there is a time for not worrying about health, and this is NOT one of them.
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My sister is a frontline healthcare worker. Like many healthcare workers, she's camping in her garage because she doesn't want to expose her family to this disease since she's not issued adequate PPE (she's now reusing her mask multiple days, and the di
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Who am I (or you) to tell a healthcare worker that they should just shut up and do their jobs even if it means putting their life on the line?
The people that think healthcare is a "right" think exactly this. There is no other way that they can think about it. If its a right, then care will be provided, by force if necessary.
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Who am I (or you) to tell a healthcare worker that they should just shut up and do their jobs even if it means putting their life on the line?
The people that think healthcare is a "right" think exactly this. There is no other way that they can think about it. If its a right, then care will be provided, by force if necessary.
I think most people think of healthcare as a right don't think that a doctor should put his life at risk to treat them, nor should he be forced to provide care, he should be compensated for providing the service. I think most people that think healthcare is a right think that one's ability to pay shouldn't be a factor on whether or not they can receive healthcare.
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Okay smart guy, if you canâ(TM)t force a health care worker or doctor to provide services, how does health care become a right? If it is a right, I can point a gun at someoneâ(TM)s head and provide it for me
Do you think owning a gun is a right? If yes, do you think you have the right to force a gun shop to sell or give you a gun? Then why would you think you have the right to force a doctor to provide care, even if healthcare is considered a basic human right?
whether that gun is through excessive taxation or through rationing healthcare service or by setting the salaries for healthcare providers.
You lost me here -- taxation is the same as pointing a gun at someone? What is "excessive taxation"? At what point does "resonable taxation" turn into "excessive taxation"?
Healthcare for all is hard to fit under "taxation" because you're paying for "heal
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You seem to think you are disagreeing with me, but later you seem to be changing your mind. Maybe you just didn't understand what I wrote? Yes, I know I wrote with a certain amount of emotion, but I think you were mostly intending to reply to hawguy. That's a comment that should have been moderated into invisibility if there was a "vile and selfish" dimension.
My basic position is that anyone who is currently working in a hospital with Covid-19 patients is a hero. I don't believe that anyone who is smart eno
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You seem to think you are disagreeing with me, but later you seem to be changing your mind. Maybe you just didn't understand what I wrote? Yes, I know I wrote with a certain amount of emotion, but I think you were mostly intending to reply to hawguy. That's a comment that should have been moderated into invisibility if there was a "vile and selfish" dimension.
My basic position is that anyone who is currently working in a hospital with Covid-19 patients is a hero. I don't believe that anyone who is smart enough and well-trained enough to be of any use in this situation is also incapable of understanding the risks.
Why are you referring to me (hawguy) in the third person? I (hawguy) intended to reply to you (shanen) since you called me selfish and sociopathic when I suggested that if doctors are so unappreciated and unwanted in this disaster, then that they should just go to the media and complain about poor working conditions and let themselves be fired instead of having to silently endure those conditions and risk their lives. They all do understand the risks, so that's why it's so unacceptable that hospitals expec
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I was confused because your new "reply" was so logically inconsistent and you apparently read so badly. I also overlooked your name, so me bad for not reading closely enough. Or maybe it was a Freudian slip? Maybe I'd prefer to forget that people like you exist and therefore the handle just failed to register? If I had noticed your name, I certainly would not have made any attempt at a thoughtful reply.
I did go back and reread your opening comment, just to check. Maybe you just write badly, too. Maybe you c
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Perhaps you should be more careful next time and not be rushing so hard to secure the precious FP slot?
I think I represented my position well in my initial post -- instead of asking for clarification, you went off half-cocked and ranted about something I didn't even say. But such is the world we live in today -- no one listens any more, they're just looking for a reason to become angry.
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Yeah, but the problem goes way back. Same recommendation of Democracy in Chains (though I've only just started reading it). I speculate that future historians (if there is any future) may conclude that Reagan's election was the crucial inflection point leading to the decline and fall of America.
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There is no specific Presidency that is the "crucial" point.
Governments just go towards corruption, that is their nature and the founding fathers even built that principle into the Constitution (1st & 2nd) and it is very well documented in the Declaration of Independence. The simple fact is... the fall of America started with the very first President, and in fact George Washington called it down as well in his farewell address.
My personal selection for worst president ever is Woodrow Wilson. He establ
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There's no system the world over that doesn't have sociopaths in senior management positions in health care. Or in charge of any other major organization, public or private, government or corporate. The Iron Law of Bureaucracy -- that promotion favors those who use the rules for their career advantage over those that prioritize the goal of the organization -- is, IMO, the problem that humanity would most benefit from finding a solution for.
All this vapid argument about "government bad! No, corporate bad
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In the last [arbitrarily large number] years. Protective stuff was relatively cheap and readily available. I bought a case of 160 N95 masks back in August for <$1 each (they were doing rework at my wife's job location - dust and asbestos potential. They're gone now - not being hoarded)
"Federal and State level regulations required justifications for oversupply of medical equipment?"
Sure there are (or were) regs about MRI/CT scanners, which are very expensive devices. But masks? Citation needed.
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Decades ago 60 Minutes did a report about all the stuff the military had warehoused and, by law, had to hold onto. They couldn't sell or donate it. They had to just hold on to the stuff until they used it. One thing they focused on was the cases of surgical smocks dating back to the Korean War. Perfectly good but just sitting there till whenever.
After this report it was further released that was just the tip of the iceberg when it came to the cases of unopened medical supplies and equipment...including mask
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That's the problem with people thinking the federal government should have stockpiles for daily use items - they age and expire. The only way it would be workable and economic would be to force everyone to buy through them so the stock was rotated before expiration. That means a government bureaucracy is involved - which has its own inefficiencies.
I realize that "hindsight is 20/20", but hospitals should
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That's the problem with people thinking the federal government should have stockpiles for daily use items - they age and expire. The only way it would be workable and economic would be to force everyone to buy through them so the stock was rotated before expiration. That means a government bureaucracy is involved - which has its own inefficiencies.
They don't have to *force* everyone to buy through them. They just need to rotate stock before it expires and becomes worthless.
If a mask lasts for 6 years and they need 300 million of them in the stockpile (numbers are made up), they can buy:
100M in year 1
100M in year 2
100M in year 3
100M in year 4 and sell the first 100M to a wholesaler.
They are buying 100M at a time, so they'll get a good price on the purchase price, so even if they sell it for the same price, it will be attractive to the wholesaler, wors
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Trump had the military donate what was relevant a week or so ago, certainly masks. It was a day or two before he sent the Navy hospital ships to LA and NY.
Re: Safety first (Score:2, Troll)
You started it.
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I'll grant you that today's polarized politics make a sane discussion of facts nearly impossible. But this isn't some silly border wall, it's the real deal.
Here is a news report from February 25 (Mardi Gras day):
https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-... [cnn.com]
The state of the epidemic at that point (Italy was just making news), might have left a lay person with the impression that it was okay for Mardi Gras to go on. On February 24, Trump was still at “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. Stock
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Decades ago 60 Minutes did a report about all the stuff the military had warehoused and, by law, had to hold onto. They couldn't sell or donate it. They had to just hold on to the stuff until they used it. One thing they focused on was the cases of surgical smocks dating back to the Korean War. Perfectly good but just sitting there till whenever.
After this report it was further released that was just the tip of the iceberg when it came to the cases of unopened medical supplies and equipment...including masks.
My question is whether this stuff has been dug out of storage yet.
I'm sure you'll find more info from your favorite search engine, but here's a link I have posted previously from a cdc document published February 28 https://www.cdc.gov/coronaviru... [cdc.gov]
Although I'm no fan of the current US Whitehouse administration, to believe that US institutions would just sit on their hands and do nothing with a stockpile of facemask is imho underestimating their loyalty to their task and the US public.
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Bullshit. Grow up and take responsibility for yourself, don't expect others to, certainly not the government. Unless you're a child and you're talking about your parents.
Sure, Trump _is_ an ass, but the government isn't (thankfully) your healthcare provider.
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the government isn't (thankfully) your healthcare provider.
Wow. [healthcare.gov]
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When? In the 2 and a half months China was covering up the problem with the aid of the WHO? Or in the month when the full of extent of the issue was not known outside of China? Or after China already bought up a bunch of the available supply when they were still claiming it wasn't that bad? Or perhaps beforehand when Federal and State level regulations required justifications for oversupply of medical equipment?
Well, I am a nobody and I knew what's going on, if I had more stocks experience I'd dump all of them like some republican senators did after secret briefings.
But, you know, I do this rare thing as reading the news - the real ones, not the ones, which kept repeating mantra after our "stable genius" that:
- it's nothing,
- will be gone,
- just a flu,
- summer will kill it
- and that we are so much superior to China, that there is no way it'll spread here
But I also have this rare thing, which is called memor
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When? In the 2 and a half months China was covering up the problem with the aid of the WHO? Or in the month when the full of extent of the issue was not known outside of China? Or after China already bought up a bunch of the available supply when they were still claiming it wasn't that bad? Or perhaps beforehand when Federal and State level regulations required justifications for oversupply of medical equipment?
Of course not, the time to stock up on supplies is not during a pandemic for obvious reasons. Hospitals can keep more inventory of basic PPE and other supplies on hand to be cycled through regularly so it doesn't expire. The same advice that FEMA gives to people "Buy extra food that you normally eat and keep in your pantry and rotate through it to keep it from expiring" can also be used by hospitals for basic medical supplies they'll need in an emergency. Then when a disaster hits they have enough supplie
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That's completely unrealistic. You just cant have empty factories sitting around taking up valuable land which may never be needed. It seems obvious right now that we should have had more specific PPE for this pandemic. But you can't predict disasters like this. PPE isn't just goggles, gloves and an N95 mask. It varies based on what you are trying to protect yourself from. If this disease could easily be absorbed through the skin then we would be screaming about not having enough hazmat suits.
You can't stoc
Re: Safety first (Score:4, Interesting)
No, before all of this even happened. The medical field has been aware of pandemics for centuries. Here in Finland we've been stockpiling medical equipment in in cae there is a major crisis like a pandemic, war, or othewr event that causs a disruption in distribution or a spike in eed for decades. This has all been handled by a national agency known as the National Amergency Suply Agency.
This cirisis marks the first time since its establishment that the agency has activated ist distrivution chain, and is now wporking together with us (I work for the national health care system's logistics side), Finnish manufacturer's and the army to make sure hospitals have enoug protective gear, ciritical medications, and other supplies.
We have a saying in Finnish which roughly translated goes: 'It's too late to squeeze when you've already shar your pants' and the US medical system right now is the embodiment of this saying. A private system will not run a surpluss of equipoment and ventilators, because the focus of an entgirely private system is on profit, and doing such things as stockpiling on equipment or having excess capacity eats margins, so it's not done for reasons of cost. Meanwhile there's very little effective cordination on the federal level and each state is basically left to fend for themsevels, as the Great Orange Leader watches on doing fuck all-
Individual hospitals can never be adequately prepared for somehting on this scale, but the government can.
What baffles me is that the US military gets this. When america goes to war you never hear news about how the army is lacking ammunition, manpower, or medical gear to take care of its taskl, because the army operates under a doctrine where readiness is all and if you're not prepared for any number of worst case scenarios you're fucked. But when it comes to actually saving the lives of american civilians in a case of global pandemic, your level of readiness is thoroughly insufficient, even though this is a known risk to prfessionals in the field, and something you should have been taking seriously at a federal level for decades,
When this is all over, we'll get some nice bechmarking data for all western medical systems and how well they've faired in tackling this epidemic, and by the way it's shaping up, the american systems which is the most expensive model of health care on the planet per capita, will not even be in the top 10 in terms of infection rates and mortality rate.
You've still got time to change that: put in place a national stay at home order, start using the defense production act to seriusly pump up medical gear production, and take in federal agencies or hell, the army/national guard, to help with distribution and delivery. You have the money, the manpower, technology and the skills to handle this. What you do not have is competent top-level leadership and crisis management.
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I agree with this guy [slashdot.org], you're projecting your own cowardice onto others. Hope the people around you know when the chips are down you'll be out the door saving yourself first.
I don't think you really care, but I'm on the standby list at my local hospital if they get crushed by incoming patients, I called to volunteer when I saw them building triage tents in the parking lot, and heard the national guard was bringing in emergency field hospitals -- I was a certified EMT decades ago so I'm not at the top of their list, but if they get the crush they are expecting, they'll be housing patients in tents in the parking lot so they'll need people with any medical training at all -- I'
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We care.
We just don't believe you.
We have memories longer than 15 minutes.
Here's where I saw and responded to the call for volunteers:
https://twitter.com/ColmaPD/st... [twitter.com]
San Mateo County is looking for any and all current or retired medical professionals who may be able to assist in response to COVID-19. They need doctors, nurses, dentists, veterinarians, medical assistants, etc. To volunteer please contact ccorley@colma.ca.gov or 650-997-8300.
If you live in the area and have any medical or other disaster training at all, I'd recommend signing up.
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Well then just maybe you shouldn't have said all this shit you posted above in the first place! [slashdot.org]
Your credibility is sorely lacking, here. Instead of being 2edgy4me try being genuine next time.
What credibility? This is Slashdot, who has any credibility here?
I said that if healthcare workers are so unneeded that they will lose their job if the tell the media about their poor working conditions that they should just take advantage of it and stay home and stay safe, and that's a bad thing?
I don't think that healthcare workers (or any worker) should be forced to do their jobs, if they feel that it's unsafe and they get fired for just telling the public about it, then that worker shouldn't feel guilty
Communists exploiting the crises (Score:2)
Like that in Italy, right?
There are no limitations in a system run for profit, that aren't present multiple-fold in the Socialist ones.
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No, lad. Like in Australia, Canada, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, the Slovak Republic, Slovenia, Sweden, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom.
Here's one: The limitation placed on people who have to choose between feeding their kids, paying their mortgage, or paying for their wife's chemotherapy o
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Now try comparing to an actually comparable country, like Canada.
USA - death rate is 5x higher. Infection rate is over 2.5 times higher. First reported case in each country is only 4 days apart.
A properly run government funded health care system beats the pants off of anything the US can demonstrate.
WRONG: health care system is not about stopping it (Score:2)
The healthcare system is there to treat illness not prevent a pandemic!
That is on the public/people and the government, at all levels since it only takes one guy slipping past the system and going to a convention or a church. Plus high population density, mass transit, and culture play a huge part.
Italy isn't an example of failed universal health care; they are overwhelmed no matter the system! They would be WORSE if they had a non-system like the USA, where people don't get tested, people who do could get