CDC Says Coronavirus RNA Found in Princess Cruise Ship Cabins Up To 17 Days After Passengers Left (cnbc.com) 95
Coronavirus RNA survived for up to 17 days aboard the Diamond Princess cruise ship, lasting far longer on surfaces than previous research has shown, according to new data published this week by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. From a report: The study examined the Japanese and U.S. government efforts to contain the COVID-19 outbreaks on the Carnival-owned Diamond Princess ship in Japan and the Grand Princess ship in California. Passengers and crew on both ships were quarantined on board after previous guests, who didn't have any symptoms while aboard each of the ships, tested positive for COVID-19 after landing ashore. The RNA, the genetic material of the virus that causes COVID-19, "was identified on a variety of surfaces in cabins of both symptomatic and asymptomatic infected passengers up to 17 days after cabins were vacated on the Diamond Princess but before disinfection procedures had been conducted," the researchers wrote, adding that the finding doesn't necessarily mean the virus spread by surface. The CDC said researchers couldn't "determine whether transmission occurred from contaminated surfaces," and that further study of COVID-19's spread through touching surfaces on cruise ships was warranted.
Same as on a dollar note then (Score:3)
"And bills are a hospitable environment for gross microbes: viruses and bacteria can live on most surfaces for about 48 hours, but paper money can reportedly transport a live flu virus for up to 17 days. It's enough to make you switch to credit."
http://content.time.com/time/s... [time.com]
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"And bills are a hospitable environment for gross microbes: viruses and bacteria can live on most surfaces for about 48 hours, but paper money can reportedly transport a live flu virus for up to 17 days. It's enough to make you switch to credit." http://content.time.com/time/s... [time.com]
CREDIT? Heck no, no touch NFC payments like Apple Pay... And if you are at the store, DON'T touch your face, wear disposable gloves, sanitize everything before it comes into your house and wash your clothes and hands when you get home.
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Touch (Score:2)
My cards have had NFC chips in them for years.
Still they require you to approve payment above a certain threshold by typing a PIN on the terminal (touching a foreign surface, which is exactly what the above germaphobe comments were trying to avoid to begin with).
As opposed to smartphone which will require at worse touching the smartphone itself - e.g. fingerprint scanner (so you aren't picking up germs from a terminal, only the one that you forgot to disinfect from the screen surface) and at best will require no touching at all (face recognition - that
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Why not contactless debit cards, or even NFC mobile equivalents?
Re:Same as on a dollar note then (Score:5, Insightful)
Finally let me put this 'cash' issue in perspective: we've had cash money for thousands of years, and any germs it carries has, I'll bet cash money, has more-or-less remained constant. Right now anyone who is saying "Ban cash! It's a DISEASE VECTOR! AAAAH!" is just panicking like everyone else is panicking and blaming cash money on it.
Should you handle cash all day then rub your face and eyes, and nose? NO! That's always been dumb! Wash your damn hands! But saying "Cash should be outlawed" is ridiculous, and playing right into the hands of surveillance types who want more and more surveillance of normal citizens. Don't fall for it!
This current health crisis will pass, just like all health crises that came before it. There, I said it. And when it passes, we still have to live in this world. Do you want to live in crisis mode for the rest of your life? I don't think so.
Don't let fear make your decisions for you. Don't give in to it.
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That really *is* debatable, and even the experts aren't certain. But it seems to have certain amounts of truth. Certainly various studies have come to that conclusion (as well as the other one). Of course, different studies were looking at slightly different things....
It really seems foolish to over-sanitize kids while they are young. And once you get past that....the answers get a lot fuzzier. Immune systems need to "learn to know their environment", and that takes awhile. But we no longer live in th
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Re: Same as on a dollar note then (Score:2)
According to a study I read a long time ago, country kids, who played and worked in the dirt early on in life routinely have better functioning immune systems (have fewer and less significant allergies, are generally more resistant to infections) as adults than their city dwelling peers. It's not that city dwellers have somehow changed in the evolution sense, their life experiences, individually, is thought to be the cause.
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Re: Same as on a dollar note then (Score:1)
Ah. I won't speak for the GP, but I think his point was that each generation of city dweller is generally more paranoid about cleanliness than the prior, to the point where it may cause immune disorder. A few generations isnof course too short a time for it to be an inherited problem.
I've long wondered what effects a mother's antigen exposure or lack thereof, has on the fetus. This proliferation of serious food allergies, especially, seems to have come out of nowhere. Was it always this way but people were
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"Don't let fear make your decisions for you. Don't give in to it. Vote Bernie, 2020."
Well said, Rick!
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I don't actually care (Score:2)
If you want to stop oppression then you have to focus on guaranteeing a minimum standard of living for all human beings regardless of race,creed, color or whether you just plain don't like 'em. Until you do that then there will be people at the top who get to decide if you live or die (because they control your access to food, shelter, education & transportation) and those people
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Fuck that shit. Do you really want to live in a world where every single penny you earn and spend is tracked, end-to-end? Where nothing in your life is ever private?
I agree with you but it is enough to make me want to douse all the cash and coins I get in an isopropyl bath.
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You can't catch the flu from a bitcoin.
Maybe not.
But you sure can catch a nasty Ransomware infection...
Cryptocurrency, like Anonymous Coward Posting, must die!
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Do you really want to live in a world where every single penny you earn and spend is tracked, end-to-end?
Based on what Americans say about cashless society and how I live. I can only assume I already do. And how do I feel about it? I don't feel anything, because it has shown for many years now to have not impacted me in the slightest, much like internet cookies, and targeted advertisement (I don't really miss the days of sexy russians and magical penis pills).
Pry it from my cold, dead hands -- and believe you me, I'm FAR from the only person in this country, and on this planet, that feels this way about it.
If there's one thing certain, it's that there's a lot of people who others would consider anti-government whackjobs out there. Actually I lied earlier. I
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What's that based on? I know that untreated wood is generally hostile to most bacteria, and so are copper and silver surfaces (which are apparently also relatively hostile to COVID-19, but only relatively).
Also COVID-19 doesn't seem to be able to survive an hour at over 140F, so cooking food should make it safe. But that does nasty things to lettuce.
15 days, however, seems excessive. Prior studies that I'd seen said 4-5 days at room temperature was sufficient to deactivate it on paper surfaces. I haven'
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That would be an exposed surface. Ships air-conditioning, those ducts would have all sorts of knooks and crannies where mould and other growths would build up in that moist humid environment, eww. So the airconditioning ducts would likely need to be quite toxic flushing (kill everything) and then ventilated or replaced. Those ships will have to seek support from their host countries, where the ships are flagged, where they belong and pay taxes.
What is it with this virus? (Score:1)
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It is a concerted effort to grab the attention of shitheads. The media makes money when the hype machine starts. Plus Trump isn't doing a good job (dontcha know?) Basically if we had Clinton II we wouldn't be in this mess, and the US would be free of ALL viruses. Not JUST Coronaviruses.
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Judging by the number of posts, it sure got your attention!
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Ya.
The Global Warming people can't hold a candle to the doom and gloom hyperbole coming from these people
Re: What is it with this virus? (Score:3)
I recommend a vacation in Italy. I hear itâ(TM)s really nice this time of year.
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No argument, it might be a good time. Well, aside from the hysteria. My European trip in the far past was in summer, and I did not get any further than Milan. It was hot and humid, really unpleasant. I went back north to Switzerland, Austria, and Germany.
Is this a good time for tourists? Good question. Travel costs are lower. But travel restrictions are a downer. And how do locals now look at tourists? When I was in Germany, most of my interaction was positive. Most Germans complimented me on my language. O
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Ya.
The Global Warming people can't hold a candle to the doom and gloom hyperbole coming from these people
Hyperbole?
You apparently haven't been paying attention.
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Every headline I see talks about how it's harder to kill, or lasts longer, or more infectious, or more deadly, or generally more of a bastard in some way than they thought
The virus similar to SARS (remember that?), so at first people expected it to be like SARS. But it has a mutation that makes it more infectious.
RNA != virus (Score:5, Informative)
Detectable RNA is not the same as viable virions. Just because genetic material is identifiable after that much time does not mean you can still get the disease from that surface.
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90% of US currency also has detectable levels of cocaine... but it's not going to get you stoned.
If you had enough money, you could probably extract the cocaine from it.
Of course if you had enough money, you could probably get a prescription for it from your favorite shady doctor.
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90% of US currency also has detectable levels of cocaine... but it's not going to get you stoned.
If you had enough money, you could probably extract the cocaine from it.
Of course if you had enough money, you could probably get a prescription for it from your favorite shady doctor.
So I’m hearing there may be a way to launder massive amounts of this cash and get cocaine back?
Re: RNA != virus (Score:1)
Last I checked and tested, Cocaine does not replicate.
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That's exactly the point, isn't it? Subjected to a small enough dose, most humans would be inoculated, rather than infected. I believe that's possibly the entire premise of a vaccine.
Genetic material lasts thousands of years. (Score:2)
As the OP said, genetic material lasts thousands of years, long after the death of the original organism.
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We have the same problem with zombies, that's why when one of them falls over on the sidewalk nobody calls for help. It might need help, but more likely it is just passed out for a few minutes. No easy way to tell, especially without touching it.
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Detectable RNA is not the same as viable virions. Just because genetic material is identifiable after that much time does not mean you can still get the disease from that surface.
That's what I was wondering.
Especially since the word is that there are no reported cases of COVID-19 transmission from simply touching an "infected" surface.
Plus, aren't the little spikes on the outer-shell of the COVID-19 "particle" that pierce the cell membrane and inject the RNA directly into a living cell the real transmission-mechanism?
https://nymag.com/intelligence... [nymag.com]
It does NOT mean it is live and transmissible (Score:5, Informative)
From: Dr. Tara C. Smith
I've also seen this misrepresented already. "SARS-CoV-2 RNA was identified on a variety of surfaces in cabins of both symptomatic & asymptomatic infected passengers up to 17 days after cabins were vacated on the DP but before disinfection procedures had been conducted"
Say it with me: *viral RNA doesn't necessarily mean live virus was present.* Now you're going to see "coronavirus can live on surfaces for 17 days!" over and over, but we don't know that based on this study and for those using live virus, it's much shorter.
https://twitter.com/aetiology/... [twitter.com]
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Yeah, the RNA, while not as stable as DNA, can stay intact for millennia (https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.3000166) in cold environments. So this doesn't really mean anything yet. What we do know is that the virus seems to be quite stable in temperatures of +5C (+41F) and colder. In room temperatures it is expected to stay infectious up to 3 days on plastic surfaces, 2 days on metal surfaces and 1 day on materials like cardboard.
This is not to downplay the contagiousness
RNA is NOT the same as viable virus? (Score:3)
Of course there would be RNA. But the Covid virus has a lipid shell necessary for it to be infectious. Weâ(TM)re viable Covid virus found?
But were they viable? (Score:3)
Re:But were they viable? (Score:5, Informative)
You need to have the complete uncorrupted (or very minorly corrupted) genome, and an intact particle in enough number to be statistically likely to infect.
The way that'd be needed to test this is to take the samples and apply them to vulnerable cells (certain strains of genetically engineered mice, for example) and see if they were infectious. This is problematic and slow for a number of reasons.
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No. The significance of this is merely that it implies that asymptomatic infected persons were likely spreading it while they were there. The part about how long has passed since they were there isn't part of the "news," it is just part of the clickbait.
Cruise Ships are petri dishes... (Score:4, Insightful)
Cram a bunch of older folks with medical conditions, shoulder to shoulder into a floating low budget hotel, feed them from multiple buffets while you pour on the alcohol next to the seawater pool and yea, folks are going to get sick. Shuffle a portion of portions on and off the boat at various third world countries, Add some new virus and what do you expect? These things are barely better than cattle cars.
I'm NEVER getting on a large cruse... I'd rather sail my own boat thank you.. Yea, it's small, and I have to manage my own logistics, cook my own food, navigate and all that, but I'm not subject to being made sick by the 60-somethings cesspool milling around looking for something to do.
They can be way better, depends on you (Score:1)
These things are barely better than cattle cars.
I've been on a lot of different cruise ships, including some of the largest (around 6k passengers) and really small boats (10 people).
The large cruise ships get a lot of flack but they can be pretty nice. For one thing, most cruise ships now have way better options than the buffet alone. I personally find most cruise ship food pretty terrible or at best extremely mediocre, especially the buffets, but a lot of cruise ships no have specialty restaurants where
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"And you think that's *acceptable*? I've been on hundreds of non-cruise holidays in my 55+years and *never* got sick once."
I find this extremely unlikely.
"It's great, you only have 3-10% chance of getting a potentially deadly disease!"
Since when was the OP talking about "potentially deadly disease"?
It's amazing how easily people will lie and distort.
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Sounds like you've researched this deeply...within your own prejudices.
Detectable RNA does not mean infectious virus. (Score:2)
Another fun example is that human poop contains lots of plant virus RNA. (it is not completely digested)
Cruise lines can fuck right off (Score:2)
Just outlaw the damned things. Or at least hold them to a high standard s
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Are you stupid? They didn't rush in to clean the cabins right after the infected people vacated it.
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Unfortunately they did. This result was found *after* the cruise ship was decontaminated. It is a demonstration of how wonderfully effective those procedures were.
Read summary at least please (Score:2)
Unfortunately they did. This result was found *after* the cruise ship was decontaminated. It is a demonstration of how wonderfully effective those procedures were.
after cabins were vacated on the Diamond Princess but before disinfection procedures had been conducted,"
Is it really that hard to read the summary before posting...
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after cabins were vacated on the Diamond Princess but before disinfection procedures had been conducted,"
Is it really that hard to read the summary before posting...
Most people find it far easier to just run their mouth with "information" they made up instead of, you know, actually bothering to find some things out. Even basic fact-checking may collide with their treasured misconceptions, do they do not do it. There are some really high profile cases of this in politics globally right now and they all will cause a lot of people to die that would not have had to yet.
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That was all already true 30 years ago, and they're as popular as ever. It was probably already true 300 years ago. Quit your bitching, and when somebody invites you on a vacation, have the wisdom to say no.
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It is exceedingly hard to get rid of residual RNA fragments. It is also completely non-necessary. You probably get exposed to much more crap every time you go shopping (not meaning now). Biology is pretty messy in all its aspects.
As to who goes on these cruises: People with money to spend and not a lot else to do.
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...just a friendly reminder that most of the people on this site are shitheads and Bernie Bros. Russians didn't cause Hillary to lose the election
You doing okay there?
Is this about how long the virus lives? (Score:2)
Or is it more of an indictment of how cruise ships are cleaned?
Bring your black light to check for "fluids" if you go to a hotel, or are in a cruise ship....
You keep hearing about shit cruises where most of the passengers come down with Norovirus.
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More of an indictment of your reading comprehension skills.
Very low mortality rate (Score:1)
Here are the other stats:
Over 45% of positively tested were asymptomatic. Even given the close quarters, less than 20% got infected. 0.2% of passengers died.
Best news I have heard so far.
And this is also the best tested sample we have.
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Fake news. Bro, do you EVEN Crossfit?
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Fake news. Bro, do you EVEN Crossfit?
Would you mind enlighten me with corrected stats?
Thanks
He's a well-known troll. (Score:1)
Ignore him. He's trolling. Also got a huge list of foes.
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Given that a "test" (which is a PCR test for a fragment of RNA) is meaningless except to determine the presence of a pathogen that is *causing* illness. If there is no illness, then the detection of the RNA fragments above the lower limit of detection is completely meaningless unless ALSO accompanied by a serology test indicating the presence of BOTH a full suite of antibodies and antigens (ie, intercurrent infection).
In other words, a PCR test being above the "lower limit of detection" is only valid when
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It is one of the indicators that if you have high mortality, something else may be contributing. Like an overwhelmed medical infrastructure that has to let people die or an old and infirm target group. People doing a cruise will be reasonably healthy.
Important correction! (Score:5, Informative)
Read all the way to the bottom, where you find: "Correction: This story was updated to reflect that SARS-CoV-2 RNA, not live virus, was identified on surfaces in cruise ship cabins up to 17 days after cabins were vacated on the Diamond Princess."
There is a difference between finding identifiable traces of RNA and finding a live virus. According to an interview I watch yesterday, the virus requires a damp environment (the "droplets" sprayed out when we speak or cough) to survive. After those droplets have dried out on a surface (according to the expert being interviewed) the virus is no longer viable.
The question, of course, is how long that takes. But the RNA fragments 17 days later are almost certainly not infectuous.
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It takes longer than just the time to dry out, which is a few minutes for a microscopic droplet. Last week, data was published on the infectivity (not just RNA presence) of SARS-CoV-2 on various surfaces. For smooth, inert surfaces (plastic, stainless steel), the infectivity half life is 7 hours. On cardboard, it's 4 hours. After 8 times the half-life time, the infectivity is eliminated for practical purposes, i.e. 2-3 days. This is data for room temperature (22 C) and 40% RH. Counterintuitively, the viabil
The RNA alone is useless. (Score:1)
Without the delivery mechanism around it, it's as infectious as a motor without a car can win a race.
Not banned? (Score:2)
Yes, but was there an infection risk? (Score:2)
Identifying some RNA strands can be anything from highly infectious to basically a completely harmless residue of broken down RNA fragments.
All hail PCR (Score:1)